People Stealing FTF's

[+NeecesandNephews]

Like I said, the situation you described sucks. Best advice I can give you??? Mental note!!! Remember the guys you spoke of are NOT playing the same game you are, or are not playing it fairly. While I will finish the round with a cheater, I wont play with them again. Not trying to be childish, just stating the facts.

 

Maybe the facts as you see them, but it shows a serious misunderstanding of the purpose of this website. It is merely a listing service for geocaches.

 

If other people choose to make sub games out of the sport that is their business. This website and its users are under no obligation to accommodate any of these made up sub games, nor should they be. If others want to add to their fun by making up unsanctioned sub games, that is their business, but how dare they expect everybody else here to accommodate them.

 

I place caches for geocachers to find. If some of them are playing the FTF game, or some numbers game, or some well rounded geocacher quest or any of a number of other sub games that are out there, it is of no consequence to me. I shouldn't be expected to cater to every sub game, or any, if I don't want to.

 

It isn't being unfair, it isn't cheating, it isn't dishonesty, it's geocaching.

 

Brian, I would like to confine my comments, opinions, and observations to the topic posted by the OP, but will break that precedent to say I agree with you completely.

The point I was trying to get across to Angela, and you accentuate it, is there are many different "games" being played here. And as far as I can tell there are no "rules" to prevent this from happening.

My advice to her, and in this reply to you, (I am justifying talking to you on someone elses thread to clarify what I meant) I suggest she find similar cachers, who play the "game" she plays, by the rules they all agree on, and play on!!!

Don't try to force others to play your way, don't let others try to force you to play their way. That was the "fact" I was trying to point out. It was in reference to my opinion on "playing with cheaters" I used that quote. I am assuming the "group " she is playing with are all friends, playing together, and have agreed on at least the basis of "rules". With that in mind, I made the comment "just stating the facts" not on whether or not the website or Groundspeak sanctioned her "game". I think you took it out of context.

I will go beyond that to say, I am still amazed at the intolerance displayed by others who might be playing something else. When you or I , or anyone for that matter, read a post on a topic that refers to a particular "version" of the game that we don't play, why don't we just accept that and move on, instead of belittling the OP and the "version" they choose to play?? In her OP I never interpreted it as trying to force me to play the game she is playing. She was, and I am speculating here, posting to those who play the same game.

In your response above you state the "obligations of the website" and I agree... but we are in the forums. A place for discussion. I think we all have the right to complain, praise, question, or comment here. As far as how she plays, or what she plays, I don't think she was trying to force "the website" to play her way..But she should have the right to play it like that if she wants, or come here and talk about how and what she plays. The "website "serves as a listing service, I agree, but you and I both know it is the listing service for what is obviously a number of different groups playing different games in different ways.

 

In the context of the whole post, not just single sections of it, I think we are saying the same thing!!! Just wanted to clarify. Hope this is close enough to "on topic".

[+StarBrand]

I really don't buy into the "you play your way - I'll play mine" mentality.

 

We need a set of common goals and standards or things start getting chaotic. The sub games are just that - not part of the activity as a whole. So it is difficult to start complaining about any aspect of them.

 

I don't want to see a "wild west" of hiding and finding here. We all need to adhere to the basics (as found in the guidelines) and then understand that anything we want to do that is not addressed in the guidelines is not really a part of the activity as a whole.

[+narcissa]

I really don't buy into the "you play your way - I'll play mine" mentality.

 

We need a set of common goals and standards or things start getting chaotic. The sub games are just that - not part of the activity as a whole. So it is difficult to start complaining about any aspect of them.

 

I don't want to see a "wild west" of hiding and finding here. We all need to adhere to the basics (as found in the guidelines) and then understand that anything we want to do that is not addressed in the guidelines is not really a part of the activity as a whole.

 

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

Far too many cachers don't take time to familiarize themselves with the guidelines, and that's where many of these conflicts begin.

[+Casting Crowns]

Opalblade is the voice of reason here....I agree with her. If he mentioned an FTF prize then he's playing the "sub-genre". There was no need for the rude responses posted to the OP. Some of you "veterans" need to get off your high horses and accept the fact that geocaching has evolved.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Casting Crowns

[+StarBrand]

Opalblade is the voice of reason here....I agree with her. If he mentioned an FTF prize then he's playing the "sub-genre". Their was no need for the rude responses posted to the OP. Some of you "veterans" need to get off your high horses and accept the fact that geocaching has evolved.

Please show me where in the Groundspeak family of websites that I can find the rules/standards for these evolved changes??

[+bflentje]

I'm sure Markwell can come up with at least a dozen threads about it.

 

You will likely get a lot of heated posts on both sides of the argument. It tends to be a fairly emotionally charged topic.

 

Frustrating? Sure. Worth losing sleep over? Doubtful.

 

I dont understand how there can be posts on both sides of the argument... its almost like people have to be so unethical about everything in the world and geocaching is just another way for people to show their true colors... I am not going to lose sleep over this just going to be pissed for a really long time... and not do any of their caches either... there shouldn't have to be rules about everything it should be common sense to wait for it to be published... its rediculous and unethical... and people who are for this type of thing... they need to re evaluate what type of people they really are....

 

No going to lose sleep just wanted to know if this happens to other people... IM sorry there has to be so many dishonesy people in the world

 

It's not a question of ethics. It's a question of over sensitivity. I AM a FTF hound but the thought of worrying about something like this, and worse yet, equating it to ethics, is just crazy.

[+StarBrand]

Opalblade is the voice of reason here....I agree with her. If he mentioned an FTF prize then he's playing the "sub-genre". Their was no need for the rude responses posted to the OP. Some of you "veterans" need to get off your high horses and accept the fact that geocaching has evolved.

Yes but are the "rules" for the particular "sub-genre" the same? One person's rules may differ significantly from another's. As nobody has yet to publish a standardized set of rules for that sub game - And then had all the participants agree to those particular rules.

Edited February 15, 2010 by StarBrand

[Clan Riffster]

When you or I , or anyone for that matter, read a post on a topic that refers to a particular "version" of the game that we don't play, why don't we just accept that and move on, instead of belittling the OP and the "version" they choose to play?

I think that's a perfectly acceptable outlook, and a viewpoint that most would agree to, up to a point. I think once Angela came in here, bristling with angst, slinging vitriol about other cachers, (those dishonest, immoral, unjust, cheaters who need to evaluate how they live), she opened herself up to comments in kind. She was obviously unwilling to accept that her version of the game was not the standard, and became angry, rather than simply moving on.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Clan Riffster

[Mr.Yuck]

When you or I , or anyone for that matter, read a post on a topic that refers to a particular "version" of the game that we don't play, why don't we just accept that and move on, instead of belittling the OP and the "version" they choose to play?

I think that's a perfectly acceptable outlook, and a viewpoint that most would agree to, up to a point. I think once Angela came in here, bristling with angst, slinging vitriol about other cachers, (those dishonest, immoral, unjust, cheaters who need to evaluate how they live), she opened herself up to comments in kind. She was obviously unwilling to accept that her version of the game was not the standard, and became angry, rather than simply moving on.

 

I just can never understand why players of the "FTF sub-genre", a tiny minority sub-genre at that, always seem to think everyone who ever signed up for a Geocaching account is doing it? For example, you see the unpopularity of the name of the magazine "FTF Geocacher".

 

I do sympathize with the OP though. If you're playing the FTF sub-genre, the situation she describes is pretty sleazy. Not at all if these people were beta testers, but when they're typing "WOOOHOOO FTFFFFF!" on the cache page, and taking FTF prizes, that's kinda sleazy.

 

That would be if I cared.

[ao318]

Yawn. There is more to caching than the FTF's

 

What more is there to geocaching than FTF's... travelbugs are always missing, and caches get lamer and lamer, at least there is the competition factor in a FTF... if its not FTF's its a numbers game... and ppl think the more the better... either way FTF's are fun, and at least friendly competition

 

How can someone steal something you don't own? I do not remember reading in the guidelines that this was a competition game.

 

Geocaching is what you make of it. Yes I do have a few FTF's, and it is kinda nice to sign in as first, but that is because I work for the Fire Department and I work 48 hours on and 96 hours off. When a new cache posts during the time I'm off and if it happens to be a weekday and it is "close" to me, I might try for it. I do not have my phone set to notify me and I don't constantly check my emails for them. What is more important to "me" is the time I get with my kids and the new trails I get to discover with my Golden Retriever.

 

There have been many times that I have chosen a cache rich environment to go to in the foothills to only arrive there and find one or two but take a two or three hour hike with my dog. This is more fun and relaxing to me and more enjoyable for my dog, who will look at me with her head cocked sideways as I'm climbing up a tree or rummaging through the bushes. I could have many more finds than I do now but I go back to caches that I have found before with my kids so that they can find them.

 

I think the biggest angst you have over this whole issue is that you were made aware of a possible new cache. You were then waiting for the posting of this cache to go after. Once that posting arrived, it already had a find on it.

 

I don't know, but it just doesn't seem like that big of a big deal. At least it didn't post without the FTF log on it and then you drove over only to find out that it had already been found a day earlier but not logged. Now that would have been a true waste of your time.

[+NeecesandNephews]

When you or I , or anyone for that matter, read a post on a topic that refers to a particular "version" of the game that we don't play, why don't we just accept that and move on, instead of belittling the OP and the "version" they choose to play?

I think that's a perfectly acceptable outlook, and a viewpoint that most would agree to, up to a point. I think once Angela came in here, bristling with angst, slinging vitriol about other cachers, (those dishonest, immoral, unjust, cheaters who need to evaluate how they live), she opened herself up to comments in kind. She was obviously unwilling to accept that her version of the game was not the standard, and became angry, rather than simply moving on.

 

I also agree with what you said... up to a point!!! To find perfect harmony in the opinions of this large a group is bordering on insanity!!!(I cant even make that hopefully optimistic) IMHO

Let me pose this line of thought... In the caching community it has been repeatedly bantered about, that "if you don't like LPC's, don't hunt them. Exclude them from your search." This sound logic could be applied to ______ ( add your dislike: LPC's ,Micro's, nano's, ftf's.. ect). I find it ironic that this same logic is not applied to the forums!!!! If you despise FTF's why would you open and read a thread that clearly states in its title, the subject contained is FTF's???

Applying the logic mentioned, if you simply "ignore" the caches you dislike, why dont you practice this in the forums, by simply ignoring the subjects you dont like??? You don't have to find every cache, you dont have to read every thread!!!

I cannot in any stretch of my vivid imagination, think Angela posted a thread on FTF's, together with the "angst" you mentioned, with the sole purpose being inflaming the sensibilities of FTF haters. Nor can I believe she came here for a dose of "bitterness" that she might be missing in her life!!!

In response to those who "hate" games that might vary from the implied "original basics" I find it also ironic that people can't even agree on the "rules" of the original!!! Or even deeper... that they are "Rules" and not just "Guidelines" (suggestions)!!

I guess the point I am trying to make is... like it or not... we are not all playing the same game by the same rules. And those who would attempt to "force" others to play by their "variation" are no more to be condemned than those who would "force" others to play by the "original".

I don't believe this was Angela's purpose. She had a complaint about an experience she had, and vented here on a public forum. If you weren't interested in her complaint, or in her feelings, feel free to just move on.!!! Its a forum!!!! Don't want to read"whining"??? Don't!!!

The need to post "snarky" comments , on subjects you have no interest in, is one I don't understand.

[+NeecesandNephews]

Can't we all just get along???

[Clan Riffster]

If you despise FTF's why would you open and read a thread that clearly states in its title, the subject contained is FTF's?

Just to clarify, I doubt you would find many, (if any), cachers who "hate" the FTF concept. I know I don't hate it. Some love it, some think it's occasionally fun and others find it an entirely silly notion. Most of the folks in all three groups would agree that it's not worth getting upset over. Of the folks in the last two groups, they have opinions relevant to this discussion. A forum is a place to express ideas and garner opinions, not to gather unto oneself a horde of people who agree with you. For instance, let's say for argument's sake that you absolutely loved urban micros. Couldn't get enough of them. If I were to start a thread flaming urban micros, you might feel inclined to post a counter opinion. That's what you're seeing here. Counter opinions, with a little snark tossed in, in response to the angst in the OP.

 

She had a complaint about an experience she had, and vented here on a public forum. If you weren't interested in her complaint, or in her feelings, feel free to just move on.

I think you'll find that the folks who posted here, myself included, were interested in her complaint, and voiced, (typed?), responses accordingly. Being interested in a topic does not mean you must agree with it. That's not how discussions work. If we all agreed on every aspect of this game, there would be no need for these forums. Dissenting opinions are the life blood for civilized conversation. Had she not opted to spew negatives, I suspect her replies would have been far more civil in nature.

[+tozainamboku]

Opalblade is the voice of reason here....I agree with her. If he mentioned an FTF prize then he's playing the "sub-genre". Their was no need for the rude responses posted to the OP. Some of you "veterans" need to get off your high horses and accept the fact that geocaching has evolved.

I disagree. As I pointed out above, at one time people put FTF prizes in caches for the sole purpose of encouraging people to find a new cache so it wouldn't sit there unfound for weeks. There was no intetion of starting a race for every new cache placed; it was more of a "Thank you for taking the time to look for my cache instead of looking for an established cache that may have been nearer or easier for you to access". The whole idea because somewhat perverted when people started to expect an FTF prize in every easy urban park and grab. Nowadays there are enough people into the FTF competition that it seems ludicrous to put a FTF prize in any cache. People are going to run out and look for cache as soon as the instant notification arrives. The simple claim of being the FTF is enough to motivate them.

 

In this case it looks like a cache owner put a FTF prize in cache because they saw it being something that was commonly done. They even let people know the cache was in the queue so the people who wanted to after the prize could do so when it got publish. For some reason the publication was held up. George and Bob probably had some reason to be caching in the area anyhow, so George tells Bob where the cache is and Bob decided to claim the FTF prize. Probably Bob should have left the prize for someone else. Probably George should have changed the cache page before it was publish if Bob had taken the prize. However what happened is Bob decided to take the prize and George either forgot or didn't have time to change the page before it got published. The OP is equating this to stealing or cheating. I don't find it rises to that level. At most one could call Bob and George inconsiderate. I don't see where they cheated or stole anything.

 

The post here are meant to indicate to those who play the competive FTF thing, that this subgame is not accepted by everyone. Sure we like the idea of running out to find the cache before anyone else (at least occasionally), but we don't expect every cache owner to comply by making sure no one has an advantage. Most cache owners couldn't care less who is first. They just want their caches to be found. Some care a whole lot and make sure the intended person is FTF before the cache ever gets published. You're not going to get those caches owners to comply with the rules you've invented for your game. This is not some kind of "evolution" of the game we must accept as inevitable. The only thing that has happened is that some people have decided they enjoy looking at FTF as a competition. They are the ones that need to adjust to live within the reality of the game. Not the other way around. If you run out to get an FTF and discover the cache has already been found pre-publishing learn to accept it. Not every cache is "in play" in your game, and there is no guarantee which ones are.

[+NeecesandNephews]

If you despise FTF's why would you open and read a thread that clearly states in its title, the subject contained is FTF's?

Just to clarify, I doubt you would find many, (if any), cachers who "hate" the FTF concept. I know I don't hate it. Some love it, some think it's occasionally fun and others find it an entirely silly notion. Most of the folks in all three groups would agree that it's not worth getting upset over. Of the folks in the last two groups, they have opinions relevant to this discussion. A forum is a place to express ideas and garner opinions, not to gather unto oneself a horde of people who agree with you. For instance, let's say for argument's sake that you absolutely loved urban micros. Couldn't get enough of them. If I were to start a thread flaming urban micros, you might feel inclined to post a counter opinion. That's what you're seeing here. Counter opinions, with a little snark tossed in, in response to the angst in the OP.

 

She had a complaint about an experience she had, and vented here on a public forum. If you weren't interested in her complaint, or in her feelings, feel free to just move on.

I think you'll find that the folks who posted here, myself included, were interested in her complaint, and voiced, (typed?), responses accordingly. Being interested in a topic does not mean you must agree with it. That's not how discussions work. If we all agreed on every aspect of this game, there would be no need for these forums. Dissenting opinions are the life blood for civilized conversation. Had she not opted to spew negatives, I suspect her replies would have been far more civil in nature.

 

Riff you seem sensible!! You don't need me to tell you that!!! Again I agree!!!

"Hate" and "haters" appear strong words but I use them in the generic sense that is common expression these days. Your "hatin" on something!! lol Hey I deal with a lot of teens!!!

I agree if you might post a thread "hating" on urban micros , soliciting comments and opinion I might be inclined to respond. I might be inclined to disagree. I can say unequivocally I would NOT ask you if your mother beat you with them when you were a child , or some other snotty remark to that effect.

Pertaining to both the first and second part of your comments, I have to say, just because someone spews negativity, that doesn't mean we have to respond in kind. Well... ok sometimes we have to... but that doesn't make it right!!! The point I was trying to beat to death was, even if we disagree, we don't have to be nasty about it.

I still agree with another poster, the guys who were involved in this group pulled a "less than admirable" move. (given the concept they were playing the same "game" by "agreed upon rules")

I don't think its fair to call "cheater" on someone who may not be aware of your game or your rules. A very likely scenario in this hobby!

[+Markwell]

Somewhere back in May of 2006, I posted this graphic:

 

It was devised when people were complaining vehemently about people logging multiple finds on event pages because they had found temporary caches placed for the event. I may have repositioned some of the entries, but I think you get the general idea.

 

I personally would place "stealing" a FTF somewhere just below "Logging a FIND for a cache you completed with a group, even though someone else “Found” it that day"

 

In the thread, there were three other comments made:

How can you cheat when nobody wins? Did I miss the prize?

...everyone should do what they think is right and STOP worrying about what the other guy is doing.

I would also add that cachers should probably stop worrying about how others feel regarding what they are doing.

 

Sound advice - still today.

 

====================

<analogy> (keeping in mind that NO analogy is perfect)

I was once in a singing organization that was a lot of fun - when I started. This group was not a fabulous choir that was going to knock 'em dead in the streets, but a bunch of guys who got together to sing a variety of songs in various styles. Their stated mission was to preserve a particular style of music. My first date with my wife 25 years ago was to a concert of this group (I wasn't in the group at the time).

 

Somewhere along the line the director and a few of the key leaders started getting really fired up about a bi-annual competition of choirs in which each group could sing two songs only. Now as I said, we weren't fabulous - and no amount of rigorous training would change that. But for a period of five months (20 weeks) before each competition, we practiced the two songs that we'd be singing in the competition. No longer were we reading new music and learning new techniques, but rather drumming in through rote the same thing over and over. The competition became the driving force behind our organization. With that focus, the key leadership abandoned giving concerts (we only had two songs in our repertoire at any given time).

 

The group had abandoned the core values of what made them who they are and why they gathered and let external forces dictate what they did in their meetings and rehearsals. When I brought this up to the group as a whole I was shouted down by the key leadership because evidently I didn't care enough about the accolades that come from the competition.

[+t4e]

 

What more is there to geocaching than FTF's...

 

if that is your opinion than you are obviously missing the whole point of geocaching...its a game not a competition

 

but hey, whatever rocks your boat, sounds like you won't be too long in this game, i sure hope i am wrong

[+bflentje]

 

What more is there to geocaching than FTF's...

 

if that is your opinion than you are obviously missing the whole point of geocaching...its a game not a competition

 

but hey, whatever rocks your boat, sounds like you won't be too long in this game, i sure hope i am wrong

 

To summararize..

 

- You don't get it.

- Do what you want.

 

My oh my..

[+Harry Dolphin]

The post here are meant to indicate to those who play the competive FTF thing, that this subgame is not accepted by everyone. Sure we like the idea of running out to find the cache before anyone else (at least occasionally), but we don't expect every cache owner to comply by making sure no one has an advantage. Most cache owners couldn't care less who is first. They just want their caches to be found. Some care a whole lot and make sure the intended person is FTF before the cache ever gets published. You're not going to get those caches owners to comply with the rules you've invented for your game. This is not some kind of "evolution" of the game we must accept as inevitable. The only thing that has happened is that some people have decided they enjoy looking at FTF as a competition. They are the ones that need to adjust to live within the reality of the game. Not the other way around. If you run out to get an FTF and discover the cache has already been found pre-publishing learn to accept it. Not every cache is "in play" in your game, and there is no guarantee which ones are.

 

Oh, dear. Now I am agreeing with tozainamboku. The word might end!

Geocaching is a listing service. It has no rules concerning FTFs. There is no rule saying that a cache log must be virgin when the cache is published. The CO might have a beta tester find it first. S/He is then the FTF. GeoGeeBee just proposed to his future wife, using an unpublished cache. She is FTF. The owner of a letterbox might choose to cross list it here. Or the ower of a cache from another listing service. There would be signatures in the log already.

OP's problem is that she is calling people nasty names because the CO did not live up to what she demanded: That every cache must have a virgin log book when published. There are no requirements for such. She is way off base calling people liars, cheats and thieves because the CO did not live up to her demands.

[GOF and Bacall]

Oh, I should add a story. Recently, in my area a cacher hid a couple of new caches in the area where I work. The first was published on a Friday, but I didn't have my GPS at work, so I didn't pick it up until Saturday, so I missed the FTF. The next was published on Sunday afternoon, so I ran over during my lunch break on Monday. I arrived at GZ while another cacher was searching and I managed to find it first (My first and only FTF). The next day, I was walking in the same area (a sprawling, scenic, engineering-industrial park) and I saw a set of footprints in the snow going off the sidewalk and leading over to the big sign at the entrance to the park. They trampled around the area and then back to the sidewalk. My mind quickly told me that it had to be the third cache in the series. I walked over and briefly looked over the sign. I found nothing and nothing was ever published, so it must not have been the cacher's tracks. But if it had been, I would have had FTF before it was published, with no inside info. So, it's not cheating or wrong. Just you win some and lose some. Even if you're not FTF, you can still enjoy finding the cache.

 

Edit: typo

 

I have been FTF on a cache in very much the same way. No snow on the ground but I was looking for a place to hide a cache. When I picked up some local material to camouflage the location I had chosen I found a cache that had yet to be published. I signed the log and contacted the owner. We had a pretty good laugh on the local forum.

[+Ms.Scrabbler]

I laughed when I read this :

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver...?urn=oly,219715

 

It's not about geocaching but the same topic here, telling others to play by your rules because that's the way it used to be.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Threads like this make me appreciate my caching community!

 

The few who do avidly play the FTF game play it for fun and almost never take the FTF prize, leaving it for the STF or whoever.

 

They WILL sandbag you by finding it, signing the log then waiting on their perfidy to be discovered by the STF, but we all know that's possible (likely!) and have a laugh when we excitedly bust open a 'new' log... only to find one of their signatures!

 

When one of us who doesn't normally do the FTF thing gets a notification and jumps in the car it's not at all uncommon to meet one of the FTF crowd at the site, in which case we hunt it together with no friction, just fun.

 

Surround yourself with good people and this (or any) game will be a lot more fun!

 

Host some events, join or build a local geocaching association and you can create a circle of friends (we're over 1,000 members in the Alabama Geocachers Association now) and you will soon discover who the many fun ones are and who want to act like weenies. Hint: Cache with the fun ones.

[4wheelin_fool]

Angela has a valid complaint, but it is not because the FTF was found unfairly. It is more because the finders misled everyone about the circumstances on how they found it in their log. They did not steal anything, but they did lie about it. Her only recourse in the wild west of the unregulated FTF sidegame is to place a couple of micros around their neighborhood and write ficticious names in the first few empty spaces in each logsheet and hope no innocent cachers get caught in the crossfire..

[+bittsen]

What's worse. The person who gets the cache first based on insider information? Or the person who is telling a select few of the cache before it's published?

 

The only time I would ever have a problem with the whole inside information thing is if the person were "scoring" the "FTF"s on Geocaching.com

It's not a geocaching.com FTF if it was found before it was published on Geocaching.com

 

So, do we need a new acronym? FTFAPOGC (First To Find After Published On GeoCaching)

[Clan Riffster]

People are going to run out and look for cache as soon as the instant notification arrives.

The Truth Is Out There Hidden 05-17-09, found (by someone not with me when I hid it), 02-11-10

Don't remember what the FTF prize was. Some antique foreign silver coin.

 

SoulBait Springs Hidden 10-30-06, found 11-05-06. Only a week! (and it's only 500' from the road)

FTF prize was a Pilipinas 2 Piso coin

 

Apocolypse, When? Hidden 08-03-07, FTF 08-11-07. (again, not bad. Only took about a week)

FTF prize was a 1943 silver half dollar

 

Paint Fiction's Apocolypse Hidden 11-24-07, FTF 12-12-07

FTF prize was a silver Franklin half dollar

 

The End... Hidden 02-12-10, FTF not yet.

The three with me opted to log notes instead of finds

 

Barking Moonbat Hidden 12-17-07, FTF 12-20-07 (It's only 500' from the road)

I don't remember what the FTF prize was

 

*#&@% Hidden 08-17-07, FTF 08-27-07

I forgot a FTF prize in that one.

 

Why Black Suburbans? Hidden 02-09-08, FTF 02-16-08

FTF prize was a 1965 silver Churchill.

 

Yuzawa Kat Springs Hidden 12-13-09, FTF 12-30-09

FTF was a 1899 silver Canadian dime

 

T.D.S. (Clan Riffster) Hidden 11-17-08, FTF 11-21-08 (4 days! Not too shabby!)

I don't remember what the FTF prize was

 

Salty Proliferation Hidden 04-30-08, FTF 11-15-08 (Six months! Yikes!)

No FTF prize.

 

Blatantly Obvious Hidden 10-17-07, FTF 10-28-07

I don't remember what the FTF prize was

 

It seems there's a direct relationship between the D/T rating and the time between being hidden & FTF.

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

There is a local family who has started caching in the past couple of months. They all have their own usernames, all with premium accounts and they all get FTF's on the caches they publish. I can show up to a cache within ten minutes of it being published and somehow, someway it's already been signed. It's frustrating to say the least and after the last time, not worth rushing out after any of their caches anymore. Now any other person in the area publishes a cache, I can show up an hour later and still be the first to sign, kinda funny I think. Am I gonna lose sleep? No, is it kind of annoying to not have people play along with everyone else? Yes. Sure, no rules about finding caches first, but it's just part of the game as I see it

[GOF and Bacall]

There is a local family who has started caching in the past couple of months. They all have their own usernames, all with premium accounts and they all get FTF's on the caches they publish. I can show up to a cache within ten minutes of it being published and somehow, someway it's already been signed. It's frustrating to say the least and after the last time, not worth rushing out after any of their caches anymore. Now any other person in the area publishes a cache, I can show up an hour later and still be the first to sign, kinda funny I think. Am I gonna lose sleep? No, is it kind of annoying to not have people play along with everyone else? Yes. Sure, no rules about finding caches first, but it's just part of the game as I see it

 

"Everybody should play along with my game." Glad you wont be loosing sleep cause it ain't gonna happen. I don't even see it as playing along with everybody else. There is only a small percentage of cachers who play the FTF game. That's why it is always one of the same handful of people getting the FTFs.

[ao318]

There is only a small percentage of cachers who play the FTF game. That's why it is always one of the same handful of people getting the FTFs.

 

I agree with this, but I think that everyone who plays would like to get at least one when they are starting out. I know I did and now that I have a few it is no longer important to me. I do happen to get one once in awhile but I do not try for them anymore unless my kids want to do it.

[knowschad]

There is only a small percentage of cachers who play the FTF game. That's why it is always one of the same handful of people getting the FTFs.

 

I agree with this, but I think that everyone who plays would like to get at least one when they are starting out. I know I did and now that I have a few it is no longer important to me. I do happen to get one once in awhile but I do not try for them anymore unless my kids want to do it.

Only because they've heard others boasting about it, I suspect.

 

I dunno... to me, this whole FTF thing reminds me all too much of a particular fetish for inexperienced lovers.

[+FunnyNose]

There is a local family who has started caching in the past couple of months. They all have their own usernames, all with premium accounts and they all get FTF's on the caches they publish. I can show up to a cache within ten minutes of it being published and somehow, someway it's already been signed. It's frustrating to say the least and after the last time, not worth rushing out after any of their caches anymore. Now any other person in the area publishes a cache, I can show up an hour later and still be the first to sign, kinda funny I think. Am I gonna lose sleep? No, is it kind of annoying to not have people play along with everyone else? Yes. Sure, no rules about finding caches first, but it's just part of the game as I see it

 

Like others have said geocaching.com is just a listing service.

 

As a courtesy to others if the cache owner already has a predetermined person that will get the FTF.

 

Just mention that fact on the cache listing..

 

Such as:

 

Thank you for visiting my new cache listing. To the FTFers out there I have decided that XXX will be the FTF. So don't bother going out if you are a FTF ho. Thanks.

[+Stargazer22]

People are going to run out and look for cache as soon as the instant notification arrives.

 

snip....

 

Salty Proliferation Hidden 04-30-08, FTF 11-15-08 (Six months! Yikes!)

No FTF prize.

 

It seems there's a direct relationship between the D/T rating and the time between being hidden & FTF.

 

Riff, those were nice stats you quoted.

I definitely see a relationship between D/T ratings and FTF times.

 

However, I beg to differ on Salty Proliferation. I put in a $5 bill as a FTF prize. 'Someone' must have grabbed it when your back was turned.

 

It's been out 661 days as of today (1 year, 9 months, 21 days) and there have still been only the original 2 finds on that one! I knew I was putting it in a remote spot but I figured more of the Nefgans would have been up there by now.

[+narcissa]

There's a cacher in our area who throws a hissy fit and accuses people of cheating whenever he doesn't get FTF, especially on puzzles. When he does get FTF, he waits to log it - sometimes for weeks. He berates people for working together or using unconventional methods to find caches, but he'll sit at work and write computer programs to solve other people's puzzles.

 

His behaviour has kind of tainted the whole idea of FTF for a lot of people who've encountered his nonsense. Friendly competition is one thing, but this guy insists on turning every aspect of caching into an unfriendly competition.

[knowschad]

Thank you for visiting my new cache listing. To the FTFers out there I have decided that XXX will be the FTF. So don't bother going out if you are a FTF ho. Thanks.

How can a cache owner decide who will be the first to find the cache? The best they can do is to request that others leave the FTF for an individual, but considering that many FTFs are grabbed without ever reading any more than the submission email on a cellphone, I think even a request like that is pretty much useless.

[Clan Riffster]

However, I beg to differ on Salty Proliferation. I put in a $5 bill as a FTF prize.

Oops! I see Dave nabbed that, as he was technically first. I think it's time to go back, once the temp crawls up a bit.

[+Packanack]

I am convinced that this thread was a complete and utter hoax upon the community. The OP comes complete with a package of utterly unimportant frivolous inconsequential concerns , spreads high dudgeon about, uses inflamatory if not defamatory phraseology in describing others . Stirs up a hornet's nest to liven up the winter doldrums and ensares all of us. It has to be a hosing because the premise is so nonsensical that she can't be serious. Good work OP, Bridge for Sale, Bridge for Sale.

[+briansnat]

I am convinced that this thread was a complete and utter hoax upon the community. The OP comes complete with a package of utterly unimportant frivolous inconsequential concerns , spreads high dudgeon about, uses inflamatory if not defamatory phraseology in describing others . Stirs up a hornet's nest to liven up the winter doldrums and ensares all of us. It has to be a hosing because the premise is so nonsensical that she can't be serious. Good work OP, Bridge for Sale, Bridge for Sale.

 

BTW I'm placing a cache on Pyramind Mtn today. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.

[+Opalblade]

In this case it looks like a cache owner put a FTF prize in cache because they saw it being something that was commonly done. They even let people know the cache was in the queue so the people who wanted to after the prize could do so when it got publish. For some reason the publication was held up. George and Bob probably had some reason to be caching in the area anyhow, so George tells Bob where the cache is and Bob decided to claim the FTF prize. Probably Bob should have left the prize for someone else. Probably George should have changed the cache page before it was publish if Bob had taken the prize. However what happened is Bob decided to take the prize and George either forgot or didn't have time to change the page before it got published. The OP is equating this to stealing or cheating. I don't find it rises to that level. At most one could call Bob and George inconsiderate. I don't see where they cheated or stole anything.

 

Reread the original post - you have your facts wrong. The cache owner George put the FTF prize in his cache and there is no reason to believe it was only b/c he saw others doing it. It seems reasonable he wanted to reward the FTF his cache after publication. I liked Bittsen's proposed acronym FTFAPOGC - maybe a wee shorter though? FTFAPG

 

BOB, the friend of the cache owner is the one who both told the OP there would be a FTF opportunity soon AND the one who brought in a third person, X, to show him where the cache was before the publish. This third person X signed the log before publish* and then announced that he was the FTF AFTER publish*, therefore lying*.

 

This is where the cheating accusation comes in - why the lying? Either Bob/X didn't want the cache owner to know that Bob took X to the cache before publication and/or Bob/X didn't want their fellow cachers to know that Bob took X to the cache before publication b/c they were very aware of the sub-game being played in their area and that people would be upset.

 

*Assuming the OP had the facts right.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Opalblade

[+DragonsWest]

FTF doesn't matter to me. It once did, when I just wanted that first one. After a few the novelty wore off and it was just another find.

 

Now if FTF really is that important to you, or the honor in caching you could always replace the log in the cache, or tear out the bogus FTF, so you are listed as FTF in the actual log.

 

Just keep in mind that's about as antisocial as what the pretender did.

 

When I hide a cache I don't care who is FTF and where it happens the attempted FTF fails and the second or third on the scene makes the initial find, I have a curious feeling that all is right with the world, if briefly.

 

There are all stripes of hiders and seekers in caching, from those who hoard geocoins to those who will selflessly maintain another persons cache when discovered peril or disrepair. Honor the saints in geocaching and find peace of mind in accepting the villains can't be changed (they were jerks before the even got into geocaching, right?)

[+thedeadpirate]

FTF doesn't matter to me. It once did, when I just wanted that first one. After a few the novelty wore off and it was just another find.

 

The novelty wears off when you realize you're just a coordinate checker.

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

Like others have said geocaching.com is just a listing service.

 

As a courtesy to others if the cache owner already has a predetermined person that will get the FTF.

 

Just mention that fact on the cache listing..

 

Such as:

 

Thank you for visiting my new cache listing. To the FTFers out there I have decided that XXX will be the FTF. So don't bother going out if you are a FTF ho. Thanks.

 

Like I said, I'm not angry about it either way, I know there are no points. I was just saying that there are a few FTF hunters in the area and we all had a good time meeting up and seeing who was there first. Now this family steps into the scene and just kind of makes a mess of it while trying to play it off like their actually driving out for the FTF like the rest of us. I can't prove anything either way and whatever they wanna do is fine, it's just been a bummer that it's been kind of fun and now when the ringer goes off and I see it's from a certain cacher, I just put my phone back down. Kind of miss seeing a few of the local cachers in the middle of the night, lol.

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

There is a local family who has started caching in the past couple of months. They all have their own usernames, all with premium accounts and they all get FTF's on the caches they publish. I can show up to a cache within ten minutes of it being published and somehow, someway it's already been signed. It's frustrating to say the least and after the last time, not worth rushing out after any of their caches anymore. Now any other person in the area publishes a cache, I can show up an hour later and still be the first to sign, kinda funny I think. Am I gonna lose sleep? No, is it kind of annoying to not have people play along with everyone else? Yes. Sure, no rules about finding caches first, but it's just part of the game as I see it

 

"Everybody should play along with my game." Glad you wont be loosing sleep cause it ain't gonna happen. I don't even see it as playing along with everybody else. There is only a small percentage of cachers who play the FTF game. That's why it is always one of the same handful of people getting the FTFs.

 

I'm not saying everyone should play it how I want to play it. I'm saying a group of us FTF hunters have been having fun with it for the past few months and we could almost always count on seeing each other there. No rules, no one has said anything, we just knew it. Now there is a twist on how we've been doing it and it's not as fun for us, but seems to be more fun for others, which is fine. They aren't breaking any rules and for all I know, maybe they're not going for them until after they're posted. Just kind of miss seeing my friends in the middle of the night, lol.

[+Casting Crowns]

Threads like this make me appreciate my caching community!

 

The few who do avidly play the FTF game play it for fun and almost never take the FTF prize, leaving it for the STF or whoever.

 

They WILL sandbag you by finding it, signing the log then waiting on their perfidy to be discovered by the STF, but we all know that's possible (likely!) and have a laugh when we excitedly bust open a 'new' log... only to find one of their signatures!

 

When one of us who doesn't normally do the FTF thing gets a notification and jumps in the car it's not at all uncommon to meet one of the FTF crowd at the site, in which case we hunt it together with no friction, just fun.

 

Surround yourself with good people and this (or any) game will be a lot more fun!

 

Host some events, join or build a local geocaching association and you can create a circle of friends (we're over 1,000 members in the Alabama Geocachers Association now) and you will soon discover who the many fun ones are and who want to act like weenies. Hint: Cache with the fun ones.

 

I'm very fortunate in the same regards. When I joined the caching community over a year and a half ago, FTF's were already an "established sub-genre" of geocaching itself. We have a blast running around together and I've met some great people. People who are like minded and aren't weenies.

[+Packanack]

BTW I'm placing a cache on Pyramind Mtn today. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.

 

 

I am getting a group together, but we need much more in the way of specifics, like where. Remember no approval until Sunday morning.

You really should spend more time examining what kind of person you are, teasing us like that is not nice.

[+ArcherDragoon]

In this case it looks like a cache owner put a FTF prize in cache because they saw it being something that was commonly done. They even let people know the cache was in the queue so the people who wanted to after the prize could do so when it got publish. For some reason the publication was held up. George and Bob probably had some reason to be caching in the area anyhow, so George tells Bob where the cache is and Bob decided to claim the FTF prize. Probably Bob should have left the prize for someone else. Probably George should have changed the cache page before it was publish if Bob had taken the prize. However what happened is Bob decided to take the prize and George either forgot or didn't have time to change the page before it got published. The OP is equating this to stealing or cheating. I don't find it rises to that level. At most one could call Bob and George inconsiderate. I don't see where they cheated or stole anything.

 

Reread the original post - you have your facts wrong. The cache owner George put the FTF prize in his cache and there is no reason to believe it was only b/c he saw others doing it. It seems reasonable he wanted to reward the FTF his cache after publication. I liked Bittsen's proposed acronym FTFAPOGC - maybe a wee shorter though? FTFAPG

 

BOB, the friend of the cache owner is the one who both told the OP there would be a FTF opportunity soon AND the one who brought in a third person, X, to show him where the cache was before the publish. This third person X signed the log before publish* and then announced that he was the FTF AFTER publish*, therefore lying*.

 

This is where the cheating accusation comes in - why the lying? Either Bob/X didn't want the cache owner to know that Bob took X to the cache before publication and/or Bob/X didn't want their fellow cachers to know that Bob took X to the cache before publication b/c they were very aware of the sub-game being played in their area and that people would be upset.

 

*Assuming the OP had the facts right.

With respect...both are assumptions...only the cache owner knows the reason for the prize...

Neither are wrong...neither are correct...both are just assumptions...and fairly good either way...

 

As for Bob, X, Q, Y and Z...First to Find is just that...First to Find regardless of who/how they found it...If the cache owner told Bob and Bob told X...then maybe the cache owner shouldn't have said anything to Bob...but, than again, if the facts are straight, the cache owner told someone about the cache and at least some details about where it was...so...if Bob and X found it with little or no info...then good on them...if the cache owner gave Bob the coordinates...well, it is the cache owner's cache and he/she has every right to do that...so, again good on Bob and X...

 

Just because the OP feels "cheated" doesn't mean that someone is "cheating"...

[+ArcherDragoon]

I am convinced that this thread was a complete and utter hoax upon the community. The OP comes complete with a package of utterly unimportant frivolous inconsequential concerns , spreads high dudgeon about, uses inflamatory if not defamatory phraseology in describing others . Stirs up a hornet's nest to liven up the winter doldrums and ensares all of us. It has to be a hosing because the premise is so nonsensical that she can't be serious. Good work OP, Bridge for Sale, Bridge for Sale.

 

BTW I'm placing a cache on Pyramind Mtn today. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.

!!!Cheater!!!

[knowschad]

I just saw a couple of policemen chasing an FTF thief down the street. The fool had stolen FTFs falling out of his pockets! I sure hope they caught him, the crook!!

Edited February 16, 2010 by knowschad

[+Renegade Knight]

...FTF was never possible cause Bob and his friend already claimed it....

 

Bob had an angle. You need an angle if you are going to compete in the FTF arena. Next time don't wait for Bob to talk to George, talk to George first.

[+Sioneva]

I just saw a couple of policemen chasing an FTF thief down the street. The fool had stolen FTFs falling out of his pockets! I sure hope they caught him, the crook!!

 

Is THAT where they went? I've been missing some!

Edited February 16, 2010 by Sioneva

[knowschad]

I just saw a couple of policemen chasing an FTF thief down the street. The fool had stolen FTFs falling out of his pockets! I sure hope they caught him, the crook!!

Is THAT where they went? I've been missing some!

Say, would you mind editing the quoted part of your post. You know... where I called an FTF a TFT? Yeah, that part. Cute bow, by the way.

[+Sioneva]

I just saw a couple of policemen chasing an FTF thief down the street. The fool had stolen FTFs falling out of his pockets! I sure hope they caught him, the crook!!

Is THAT where they went? I've been missing some!

Say, would you mind editing the quoted part of your post. You know... where I called an FTF a TFT? Yeah, that part. Cute bow, by the way.

 

Done - that'll be $10, please.