Dazed and Confused

[+NeecesandNephews]

Wow!!! Did my Caching experience ever take a twist yesterday evening!!! I am going to post this for comments, as I am somewhat stunned, and trying to decide what to do.

 

I have two different instances I am going to describe and would like to know what other, more experienced cachers have to say.

 

First one... as I have noted on other threads there is a cache I can see from my picture window. Not mine!!!!But its the one that "introduced me" to caching. Yesterday evening I noticed a group of college age kids drive up in their MitsuHondYota and bail out to find this cache. The dog needed to go out and the bird feeder needed filled so I thought I would speak to them. (good excuse huh) Here is what stunned me!!! They were searching for the cache with a cell phone. Not that spectacular, you say??? Turns out they had no idea there was a website listing these caches. They got the coords for what looked like at least a dozen caches, from a "buddy" who is a member here. He gave them to this group on a sheet of paper and they were going around programming them into their phone, and finding them. One of these kids tells me "people put out some really cool sh** for you to take".!!! They are not signing logs, playing "this"game, or logging anything. They are simply raiding caches!!! I tried to explain it to them but they were clearly not interested.

Now let me add a kicker!!! I took their license number and dropped a dime on them. The "officer" I spoke to told me they were "aware" of this as they had already received a complaint. He further informed me in a VERY condescending tone that "they had done some research on this and people do actually put these items out with the intention of them being taken". he further pointed out to me the "unsound logic" behind placing items in a box and then logging online to tell everyone where this box could be found, and then "expecting people NOT to take the items".

The only thing I could think of was to start searching online for any caches that had bugs or coins in them, and trying to recover these items, and move them out of the area to another cache. The only ones I have found close to me have been missing for some time, or already moved out of the area on their own. I don't know what else to do.

 

Second experience... I met an "acquaintance" in my neighborhood who is a cacher. He was a former ScoutMaster, and participated in the setting of the caches in my neighborhood by a Scout. He has (had) several caches of his own. We met at a Homeowners Association meeting, and talked for about an hour about caching. He had not been logged on this website since Sept.. I have been caching, and on a recent hunt I found one of his hides. There was another close by in a great location I was unable to find. I noticed there were a number of DNF's posted online. I found the location, and there had been a great deal of brushclearing in the area. I concluded it was missing.(this was an ammo can) I logged on the cache page a NM. I then took pictures of the area from all angles and dropped them in an email to the owner (who lives on the other side of the block) asking him to verify it was missing, as he would know where it was supposed to be. I thought I would save him a trip to the site, if I just couldn't find it because of my inexperience. I also noted in the email, that I had replaced the pill bottle in the other cache at this location, because several logs noted it was missing. (***Before you jump to conclusions about a "throwdown" let me clarify I found the cache. It was a dove decoy on the limb of a cedar tree. It had a hole cut in its breast for a pill bottle to fit snugly into. The Pill bottle was missing but the log was tucked into the decoy.***) I also noted in the email that another cache I found of his had two containers side by side, with two logs.

I did not receive a response to my email. We are acquaintances so after waiting a few days I gave him a call. I wasn't trying to pester him about it, just thought we might get together and do some caching and some maintenance. Told his answering machine," I had sent you an email, give me a call sometime."

Last night, with no return email, nor phone call, he archived all his caches!!!!!! He has two left that note in the online logs some time ago that he has handed the maintenance of them to someone else. They are still listed under his name so I don't know if it was an "official" adoption, and it really doesn't matter to me. Several of the caches he closed were in need of some attention, but several were just fine!!

I feel responsible!!! I was trying to help him out (I thought) by sending the pics and telling him about the others I found. I am kinda dumbfounded over the reaction!!!!

 

Anyone care to comment????? On either situation??? (Sorry about the long post) I have received some great advice from the forum members here, and would like to see how this plays out. I am just amazed at all the weird things that have been going on

[+sbell111]

Situation 1:

 

The person who gave the idiots the list of caches needs a dope slap. The police officer has it right. I'm not sure what you expected him to do or what possessed you to call the police.

 

Situation 2:

 

Owning geocaches is not for everyone. If he wasn't willing to maintain his geocaches, it's good that he archived them. Hopefully, he will now go get them.

[+42at42]

Situation 1: They are geocaching rules, not the law. If they aren't playing by the rules hopefully their buddy won't give them any more coords and they are too lazy to look them up themselves.

 

Situation 2: like sbell says, it maybe good if he's tired of maintaining his caches. On the bright side, it opens up new area to place new caches.

[+Opalblade]

I'm not a very experienced cacher but will comment anyway

 

I do understand the police officer's point of view. When we put out our caches, we list them on a free access site anyone can see, leave swag with the intent of people taking it out and keeping it, hide the caches in such a way that most of the time no one would be able to see what was going on with the cache contents, some caches have been abandoned by their owners, and then to boot caches are often hidden without permission. If they did interfere where would one draw the line? Would they go after parents who let their child take a little toy when they have nothing to trade with on them - "They wanted it and I couldn't say no"? I would have been furious too - it sucks there's nothing we can do about pirates My 3yo and I found an emptied one recently - the pirates had left a note that said, "Thanks for the treasure" with a picture of a skull and crossbones. It was extra sad b/c my 3yo had done a lot of bushwhacking to get there and he'd spotted it first and taken it out and then it was empty. Fortunately they had left that picture so was distracted by asking about the pirates Had they taken the treasure to their boat? Did they have their boat on the water over there (a nearby creek)? Etc. Good thing he'd recently watched Dora and the Pirate Piggies

 

On the neighbor, I wouldn't feel badly at all. You went above and beyond to try to help him and he clearly felt overwhelmed by the job of maintaining his caches. It's a pity he didn't ask if you'd adopt them, but at this point I think I'd prob ask if he'd mind if you re-listed his remaining containers.

[+Mom-n-Andy]

You must have a better quality of swag in your neighborhood than we do here. I usually run into old golf balls, damp paper sig items, candy(!), and other assorted stuff that looks like it was removed from under a toddler's booster seat. It's hard to imagine anyone bothering to drive around just to get the typical cache contents.

[knowschad]

If forget the term, but Snoogans has a word (and a thread) for it when geocaching goes mainstream. I think this (your #1 subject) is a clear sign that it is very, very near, if not here already.

As Mom-n-Andy pointed out, hopefully they cleared the golf balls out and left room for some real swag!

[Skippermark]

You must have a better quality of swag in your neighborhood than we do here. I usually run into old golf balls, damp paper sig items, candy(!), and other assorted stuff that looks like it was removed from under a toddler's booster seat. It's hard to imagine anyone bothering to drive around just to get the typical cache contents.

Same here unless the cache is a long hike in the woods. It seems the shorter the hike, the lesser the quality of stuff inside.

 

To the Original Poster, for #1) there's not much you can do about it. Hopefully the "kids" will get tired of it and stop soon. For future hides, people good make the caches Premium Member Only, which may help in case the person giving the coords is only a regular member. As far as using a cell phone, that's not unusual. There are a lot of different programs that let you cache with a cell phone.

 

For #2) you didn't do anything wrong. It seems the person wasn't interested in caching any longer and your messages was enough of a push to get him to archive them. On the bright side, as noted, it has opened up the area to new cache hides by someone that may be more open to maintaining them.

[+thedeadpirate]

#2. If he had already handed off maintenance to someone else via an unofficial adoption, he probably was not able to do the upkeep for whatever reason. It happens. He's most likely been receiving any logs noting the maintenance problems all along but just didn't quite have the motivation to pull the trigger. Your email was probably just the final catalyst needed for him to finally pull the trigger.

 

I wouldn't worry about it. There are lots of reasons someone may no longer be able to maintain their caches and it's probably best that he archived them.

[Clan Riffster]

All I can do is mirror the thoughts left by others. In the first scenario, the turds kids weren't doing anything that the officer could enforce, so calling him was a waste of both your time and his. I would document the incident on a note to the cache page in the slim hope that whoever it was that provided these turds kids with the data might see it and realize what an idiotic thing they'd done. In the second scenario, I'm thinking the cache owner probably was ready to get out of the game and your note simply provided the necessary push. Since they decided to get out of the game, I'm glad to see that they've archived their listings, rather than walking away with them active, to degrade over time. I hope he's going to clean up after himself.

[+uxorious]

Now let me add a kicker!!! I took their license number and dropped a dime on them. The "officer" I spoke to told me they were "aware" of this as they had already received a complaint. He further informed me in a VERY condescending tone that "they had done some research on this and people do actually put these items out with the intention of them being taken". he further pointed out to me the "unsound logic" behind placing items in a box and then logging online to tell everyone where this box could be found, and then "expecting people NOT to take the items".

 

The officer is wrong, the caches are put out for people to swap items, not take them. However, the police have more important things to do then chase down people stealing trinkets from caches.

 

I believe a case could be made that someone taking swag with no intention of swapping is in fact stealing. But, good luck trying to get that in the court system.

 

The cache placed in play (with permission on the land manager) is no more abandoned than your car is if you park it on the street.

[knowschad]

Hey, at least the officer was "aware" of geocaching, even if he had some misconceptions about it. Of course, that only reinforces the point that geocaching is going mainstream. Where IS Snoogans, anyway?

[Clan Riffster]

Where IS Snoogans, anyway?

Hiding from the Event Horizon?

[+Renegade Knight]

... Anyone care to comment????? ...

 

I think I like you. But I'll work though that anyway.

 

On your first experience. Sounds like you ran into intensional doofies (the college kids) and a normal doofie (cop who doesn't quite get it, but almost does). You can't do much for the second except take them caching to clear up the misconceptions. The first doofies do reinforce the concept the other doof has. You place your cache you take your chances. Other than the re-eductation you tried to provide there really isnt' much more you can do. The college doofies have a short attention span and will move on soon enough. If they stick wiht it longer that means they care and will figure it out....

 

As for the second. You more than did the right thing. The owner is probably fustrated at the missing caches and annoyed at the work that they shoudln't have to be doing but need to do anyway. The result. Archived caches. Which does fix the problem (if he retreives the one). You weren't responsible for anything but giving the owner the information they need to do their job.

 

Good luck out there.

[+tozainamboku]

#1

 

Cache pirates (AKA cache maggots) have been around a long time. Every so often someone (usually some kids) thinks it would be fun to go find caches just to steal what is in them. What may have changed here is that the ability to look for caches with a cell phone. This has removed the barrier of GPS ownership which may have kept piracy in check in the past.

 

It has always been the case that the police won't or can't do much about cache pirates. First of all the value of items in caches (even including travel bugs and coins) is seldom more that a few dollars. The police have more to worry about than such petty theft. Second, of course, is that fact that caches are intentionally left in public places and people are invited to trade for items in the cache. This might make it difficult to prosecute someone for stealing from a cache. At the least, any DA who filed charges in such a case would face a lot of ridicule for wasting public funds when there are "real" crimes to worry about.

 

#2

 

Since you haven't yet become jaded, cynical, dazed, or confused you might not realized that some poeple who start off thinking that geocaching is the greatest thing they've ever done, eventually burn out and get bored. Or they may find some other hobby that becomes all consuming of their time. Or something else happens that means they aren't going to cache as much or even at all. They may or may not bother to adopt out the caches they placed when they were gung-ho about it. They may not archive them at first, because there is no effort involved in letting people find an log the caches. But once the NM logs start comming in they are likely to quickly click the archive button. All you've done is made this person realize that caching (at least owning caches) is not something they are interested in doing anymore.

 

I will say that you should accept that not everyone is as enthusiastic about geocaching as you are. Most people don't get on the forums and ask the kind of questions that you have. It just isn't that important to them. Geocaching is something some people do a few weekends a year, or even something they tried once or twice and decided it wasn't for them. Some may start off enthusiastic and then get turned off they had a run in with a cacher who took the whole thing too seriously so it was no longer a fun game. Some get bored finding too many caches that seem to be all the same. Some find all the cache in their area and stop because they can't keep travelling farther and farther to find more caches.

[+NeecesandNephews]

Thanks for sharing your opinions. I was feeling guilty about the archived caches, but realize after some searching the CO's caches have been folding due to maintenance issues for some time. I wasn't aware he had that many already archived or disabled. Have to wonder why he didn't go ahead and archive the disabled ones as they still show on queries. No matter.

I have thought about maybe hiding a few myself... but I am just not to that point yet. He did open up a couple spots that would be very good places.(have some attraction to see or do besides the cache itself)

 

Toz... you hit it right on the "enthusiastic" part. Seems its just my nature (not making excuses nor apologizing) that I don't do anything half-hearted. I enjoy expanding my life in areas that bring me happiness, get me outside, and includes my spouse. When I get involved with something, whether it be church youth group, environmental group, animal rights, ect... I go all out and give it my best. I hope to leave the planet better than I found it, and hope I can give back instead of always take. No I am not a Crusader. I am taking it all in and have no problem accepting it, but will continue to try to "improve" it where I see an opportunity.

I also hope your description of "burn out" isn't prophetic in my case. Would like to still have the same enthusiasm in ten years.

 

In response to what I took as a slightly "snarky" (the p.c. term on this forum it seems) comment "what posessed you to call the police" at the risk of causing the Mods any more anxiety I would give this answer.

Since you seem to respond in this or a similar manner in not only MY posts but many others I have read, please allow me, if you will, to fire a few "return shots".

1st shot... Perhaps if you were out caching and came upon a dozen or so caches that had been "raided" with the contents missing, and what wasn't gone, strewn about, and the cache exposed you would feel differently. (I note your last find was last May so that shell failed to fire)

2nd shot... Perhaps if the caches that are described in the previous example were all yours you might feel differently about it. (I note you only have 1 active so that shell misfired also)

3rdshot... Perhaps if you had a travel bug or coin taken in the above described manner, from one of these "raided" caches you might feel differently. (guess what??? you don't have any that aren't long gone, third dud shell)

Oklahoma Hunting Regulations require you to plug your shotgun magazine so that it holds no more than three shells when hunting "migratory birds", so I guess I will stop there.

On previous threads I have mentioned "character". Your character is defined by your silence and in-action as eloquently, if not more so, than your words and deeds. I would rather do something... anything... than just sit back and do nothing at all but sit at my computer and fire shots at someone who at least tried.

To quote Ton Hanks/Forrest Gump..."thats all I have to say 'bout that" Do not expect any further response

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts once again!!!

To go to the opposite extreme from Forrest Gump allow me to quote Dylan Thomas "Do not go gente into that good night...Old age should burn and rage at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

Never mistake my kindness for weakness.

[+narcissa]

One way to cut down on cache piracy is to create more multi-caches and puzzles caches. It won't stop people from sharing the final coordinates if they really want to, but it is a bit of a barrier to idiots.

[knowschad]

One way to cut down on cache piracy is to create more multi-caches and puzzles caches. It won't stop people from sharing the final coordinates if they really want to, but it is a bit of a barrier to idiots.

...as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache, but don't care to do your multi or puzzle cache. I'm afraid that I can't agree with that bit of wisdom, although the basic logic makes sense. Edited February 13, 2010 by knowschad

[+Opalblade]

One way to cut down on cache piracy is to create more multi-caches and puzzles caches. It won't stop people from sharing the final coordinates if they really want to, but it is a bit of a barrier to idiots.

...as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache, but don't care to do your multi or puzzle cache. I'm afraid that I can't agree with that bit of wisdom, although the basic logic makes sense.

 

In my short time caching I've done both excellent puzzles and an excellent multi The bigger caches had lots of excellent swag and the containers had been there for years. Of course, also enjoyed by a much smaller subset of cachers.

[+narcissa]

One way to cut down on cache piracy is to create more multi-caches and puzzles caches. It won't stop people from sharing the final coordinates if they really want to, but it is a bit of a barrier to idiots.

...as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache, but don't care to do your multi or puzzle cache. I'm afraid that I can't agree with that bit of wisdom, although the basic logic makes sense.

 

The reviewers in our area are quite happy to help people with this.

[Clan Riffster]

as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache

And a barrier to those lazy cachers who want to place a lame P&G, but don't want to solve your multi/puzzle.

[+uxorious]

as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache

And a barrier to those lazy cachers who want to place a lame P&G, but don't want to solve your multi/puzzle.

 

Come on most cachers who don't want to solve a puzzle/multi, are not lazy, they just don't like, or do puzzles, and/or multis.

 

Not one of my caches I would consider a P&G. Some are very short hikes, or quick finds, but each one is at least a small, and most are ammo cans. All of them have something I wanted the finder to see.

 

Now I know your going to say you didn't accuse all non puzzle people of being lazy, but it does come across that way.

 

One of the worst parts of this forum is how often people who don't like some part of the game, want to put down people who like that part. FTF, micros, puzzles, multis, P&Gs, numbers game, if a poster doesn't like it, those that do must be LAZY. Give me a break.

[Rocketsteve]

as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache

And a barrier to those lazy cachers who want to place a lame P&G, but don't want to solve your multi/puzzle.

Now I know your going to say you didn't accuse all non puzzle people of being lazy, but it does come across that way.

 

So what? Last time I checked, the US Constitution gives “Clan Riffster” the right of FREE SPEECH, but nowhere does it give you, or anyone else on this forum, the right to “not be offended”. As long as he isn’t personally attacking someone on this forum, he is well within his rights to state his opinion. What bothers me is that there’s an obvious increase in the number of “Speech Police” who want to curtail the use of words that they think are unacceptable. This is very dangerous.

[+thedeadpirate]

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

You've heard about cache degradation...

 

Now note forum degradation!

[+BlueDeuce]

One way to cut down on cache piracy is to create more multi-caches and puzzles caches. It won't stop people from sharing the final coordinates if they really want to, but it is a bit of a barrier to idiots.

...as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache, but don't care to do your multi or puzzle cache. I'm afraid that I can't agree with that bit of wisdom, although the basic logic makes sense.

 

If you make your cache hard to find you will, for the most part, deter the casual non-cacher. If you do not want to use this method then you either need to find another method or except the fact that your cache could be a target.

 

Face it, some locations just become too well known and will not be left alone no matter how many times you replace the match holder under the fence post top.

Edited February 14, 2010 by BlueDeuce

[4wheelin_fool]

One way to cut down on cache piracy is to create more multi-caches and puzzles caches. It won't stop people from sharing the final coordinates if they really want to, but it is a bit of a barrier to idiots.

 

Although the word "idiots" is a bit strong, I completely agree with narcissa.

 

The reason they are pirates is because they don't have any respect for cachers. If you make the cache a bit more difficult and involved, they most likely won't bother. If they do figure it out, there is always a chance they may develop respect for the person that placed it during the process of finding it. It would be nice if cache maggots were all stupid, but unfortunately some are intelligent. It's the respect that they are lacking. A cache discovered in a remote location accidentally with official geocaching logos on it fares a much better chance than something sitting out in the open in a small park.

 

Leave a large lock'n'lock filled with swag and official geocaching identification on it requesting it not to be moved, and place it out in the open in a high volume pedestrian area and it still will disappear rather quickly. The easier something is found, the less likely the person will have respect for it. A meticulously handmade camoed container found after a long trek, and hours of puzzle decripting usually generates much more respect than a container tossed behind a bush on the side of a highway.

 

I know that if I manage to pick up a girl very quickly in a bar with just a wink and a smile, it really is not the same as if I spent a fair amount of time getting to know them and persuing them. Even if they are really attractive it doesn't mean that much if they are that easy. The chase is important to the value of the find. Park and grabs are still fine as long as the box isn't frozen shut. Some people will do whatever the arrow tells them to for an easy bushwack, but the difficult ones still get the most respect..

[+uxorious]

as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache

And a barrier to those lazy cachers who want to place a lame P&G, but don't want to solve your multi/puzzle.

Now I know your going to say you didn't accuse all non puzzle people of being lazy, but it does come across that way.

 

So what? Last time I checked, the US Constitution gives “Clan Riffster” the right of FREE SPEECH, but nowhere does it give you, or anyone else on this forum, the right to “not be offended”. As long as he isn’t personally attacking someone on this forum, he is well within his rights to state his opinion. What bothers me is that there’s an obvious increase in the number of “Speech Police” who want to curtail the use of words that they think are unacceptable. This is very dangerous.

 

I guess you need to number yourself among those "Speech Police". How is what I said, about what he said, any different than what you said about what I said about what he said.

 

As for being offended, free speech will often offend someone, nothing wrong with that. Just as there is nothing wrong with feeling offended when someone says something you don't like.

 

No where did I say he, or anyone else should curtail the use of any words. I was just giving my opinion that the I disagreed with the IDEA that people who play a game different must be lazy.

 

What is "very dangerous" is a person who doesn't want to hear another side of an opinion, and just starts calling names. You know, like "Speech Police".

[4wheelin_fool]

as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache

And a barrier to those lazy cachers who want to place a lame P&G, but don't want to solve your multi/puzzle.

Now I know your going to say you didn't accuse all non puzzle people of being lazy, but it does come across that way.

 

So what? Last time I checked, the US Constitution gives “Clan Riffster” the right of FREE SPEECH, but nowhere does it give you, or anyone else on this forum, the right to “not be offended”. As long as he isn’t personally attacking someone on this forum, he is well within his rights to state his opinion. What bothers me is that there’s an obvious increase in the number of “Speech Police” who want to curtail the use of words that they think are unacceptable. This is very dangerous.

 

I guess you need to number yourself among those "Speech Police". How is what I said, about what he said, any different than what you said about what I said about what he said.

 

As for being offended, free speech will often offend someone, nothing wrong with that. Just as there is nothing wrong with feeling offended when someone says something you don't like.

 

No where did I say he, or anyone else should curtail the use of any words. I was just giving my opinion that the I disagreed with the IDEA that people who play a game different must be lazy.

 

What is "very dangerous" is a person who doesn't want to hear another side of an opinion, and just starts calling names. You know, like "Speech Police".

You are correct. Freedom of speech is not a one way street.

Head on collisions can occur anywhere, anyway.

[Clan Riffster]

Wow... Did I start all that? Allow me to clarify:

Come on most cachers who don't want to solve a puzzle/multi, are not lazy, they just don't like, or do puzzles, and/or multis.

The title of "lazy" was not intended for folks who don't/won't solve puzzles or work their way through multis. So far as those cache types go, I say, 'to each, there own', and call it a day. If it sounded like I was targeting folks who don't care for those types, I apologize, as that was not my intention. I could've worded it better, I reckon. I know several cachers who will not even look at a puzzle or a multi, and I can assure you, they would not qualify as "lazy" in my book. For the most part, their reasoning is, they either prefer caching in its simplest form, (I.e; pop in coords/find a cache), or they've become frustrated with multis with missing links, and/or, puzzles that are written poorly, offering more than one possible solution.

 

The label of "lazy" is meant strictly for those otherwise perfectly healthy folks who will not venture more than 5' from their car for a smiley. They are a very small subcategory of the folks who don't do puzzles or multis. For them the reasoning is quite different. They won't do them because the effort/smiley ratio is too small. Solving a puzzle or crunching their way through a multi takes away from the time they could spend driving from lamp post to lamp post, racking up gobs of smileys a day.

 

I should also mention that everything written above is no more than one ole fat crippled guy's highly biased opinion.

 

That opinion & $6.00 will get you a cup of crappy coffee at Starbucks.

[Rocketsteve]

as well as a barrier to other cachers that want to place an excellent cache

And a barrier to those lazy cachers who want to place a lame P&G, but don't want to solve your multi/puzzle.

Now I know your going to say you didn't accuse all non puzzle people of being lazy, but it does come across that way.

 

So what? Last time I checked, the US Constitution gives “Clan Riffster” the right of FREE SPEECH, but nowhere does it give you, or anyone else on this forum, the right to “not be offended”. As long as he isn’t personally attacking someone on this forum, he is well within his rights to state his opinion. What bothers me is that there’s an obvious increase in the number of “Speech Police” who want to curtail the use of words that they think are unacceptable. This is very dangerous.

 

I guess you need to number yourself among those "Speech Police". How is what I said, about what he said, any different than what you said about what I said about what he said.

 

As for being offended, free speech will often offend someone, nothing wrong with that. Just as there is nothing wrong with feeling offended when someone says something you don't like.

 

No where did I say he, or anyone else should curtail the use of any words. I was just giving my opinion that the I disagreed with the IDEA that people who play a game different must be lazy.

 

What is "very dangerous" is a person who doesn't want to hear another side of an opinion, and just starts calling names. You know, like "Speech Police".

 

I'm the "Speech Police"? When you write: "Now I know your going to say you didn't accuse all non puzzle people of being lazy, but it does come across that way.", your statement has a very condescending tone to it. I have no problem standing up for YOUR right to say what you want, and I have no problem listening to opposing opinions, but I also believe that "Clan Riffster" doesn't deserve to be patronized because he doesn't share your views. I prefer honest and thoughtful conversation. We can debate the issues all day long, but I don't see how unsightly discourse will get us anywhere.

Edited February 14, 2010 by rocketsteve

[knowschad]

Looks like dazed and confused has become jaded and cynical already. Amazing bit of thread morphing exhibited here!

[+NeecesandNephews]

Looks like dazed and confused has become jaded and cynical already. Amazing bit of thread morphing exhibited here!

 

Thats funny!!! Hey!!! Wait a minute... not its not!

Since I love hunting, as you might note a lot of my analogies are hunting related, and that is what drew me to this hobby ( a different kind of hunting, game, and an electronic "bird dog") I have to add this Forum is somewhat similar.

Except its like shooting clays!!! You pretty much know where it is going to start, but once you post, you have in effect said "PULL" and you just never know where it is going to go , or how many shots you will get before it crashes!!!

 

edit to add-- As one of the important rules in Hunter Safety stresses... you need to be aware of others in your field of fire!! And remember yours might not be the only loaded gun out there!!!

Edited February 14, 2010 by NeecesandNephews

[+uxorious]

your statement has a very condescending tone to it.

 

Therein lies the main problem. In the forums, posts often have a problem of no tone (or voice inflection). There for it is quite easy to be misunderstood.

 

Your post comes across as argumentative and name calling, not as honest and thoughtful conversation. I know you do not mean it that way, but in this format, and not face to face, it can be taken that way.

 

In no way was I intending to be patronizing toward Clan Riffster, I respect his posts and usually agree with him.

 

4wheelin_fool said it best, Freedom of speech is not a one way street.

Head on collisions can occur anywhere, anyway.

 

OK, enough said, unless we can discuss it over a cup of coffee face to face, (where I bet we really would not be in disagreement.) I will try to stay on topic for the rest of this post.

[+thedeadpirate]

Looks like dazed and confused has become jaded and cynical already. Amazing bit of thread morphing exhibited here!

 

Thats funny!!! Hey!!! Wait a minute... not its not!

Since I love hunting, as you might note a lot of my analogies are hunting related, and that is what drew me to this hobby ( a different kind of hunting, game, and an electronic "bird dog") I have to add this Forum is somewhat similar.

Except its like shooting clays!!! You pretty much know where it is going to start, but once you post, you have in effect said "PULL" and you just never know where it is going to go , or how many shots you will get before it crashes!!!

 

edit to add-- As one of the important rules in Hunter Safety stresses... you need to be aware of others in your field of fire!! And remember yours might not be the only loaded gun out there!!!

 

As the OP you have the right to close this shooting range down.

[+narcissa]

One way to cut down on cache piracy is to create more multi-caches and puzzles caches. It won't stop people from sharing the final coordinates if they really want to, but it is a bit of a barrier to idiots.

 

Although the word "idiots" is a bit strong, I completely agree with narcissa.

 

The reason they are pirates is because they don't have any respect for cachers. If you make the cache a bit more difficult and involved, they most likely won't bother. If they do figure it out, there is always a chance they may develop respect for the person that placed it during the process of finding it. It would be nice if cache maggots were all stupid, but unfortunately some are intelligent. It's the respect that they are lacking. A cache discovered in a remote location accidentally with official geocaching logos on it fares a much better chance than something sitting out in the open in a small park.

 

Leave a large lock'n'lock filled with swag and official geocaching identification on it requesting it not to be moved, and place it out in the open in a high volume pedestrian area and it still will disappear rather quickly. The easier something is found, the less likely the person will have respect for it. A meticulously handmade camoed container found after a long trek, and hours of puzzle decripting usually generates much more respect than a container tossed behind a bush on the side of a highway.

 

I know that if I manage to pick up a girl very quickly in a bar with just a wink and a smile, it really is not the same as if I spent a fair amount of time getting to know them and persuing them. Even if they are really attractive it doesn't mean that much if they are that easy. The chase is important to the value of the find. Park and grabs are still fine as long as the box isn't frozen shut. Some people will do whatever the arrow tells them to for an easy bushwack, but the difficult ones still get the most respect..

 

Just to clarify, by "idiots" I was referring to non-cachers jerk-off losers who steal things from caches, not cachers who just aren't into puzzles and multis.

[+apyro]

In response to what I took as a slightly "snarky" (the p.c. term on this forum it seems) comment "what posessed you to call the police" at the risk of causing the Mods any more anxiety I would give this answer.

Since you seem to respond in this or a similar manner in not only MY posts but many others I have read, please allow me, if you will, to fire a few "return shots".

1st shot... Perhaps if you were out caching and came upon a dozen or so caches that had been "raided" with the contents missing, and what wasn't gone, strewn about, and the cache exposed you would feel differently. (I note your last find was last May so that shell failed to fire)

2nd shot... Perhaps if the caches that are described in the previous example were all yours you might feel differently about it. (I note you only have 1 active so that shell misfired also)

3rdshot... Perhaps if you had a travel bug or coin taken in the above described manner, from one of these "raided" caches you might feel differently. (guess what??? you don't have any that aren't long gone, third dud shell)

 

I am still failing to see how this would be a police issue. While cache pirates and decidedly annoying, geocaches are intended to be on public property and have generally public access. The issues here are simply edict that is outlined in the guidelines, which as many have pointed out, are not rules. If you leave property on public property the police have no control over that, nor do I really want my tax dollars to go to chasing people stealing small items, which in general are not costly. As for your personal shots to a fellow cacher, I am a bit confused.

 

1: As you only have 30 finds I find it hard to believe you have found a dozen caches in this situation. If that is the case than it sounds like a local issues where measures need to be taken such as members only caches and more remote hiding locations.

 

2: You personally have NO caches so this entire argument makes no sense bringing up others personal stats. It still would NOT make it a police situation even it there were your own!!!

 

3: Most people understand when they put out a coin there is a chance of it going missing. I personally have had items go missing, and yes it is frustrating, but unfortunately there are even people with account guilty of this. Also, sometimes things just get lost or misplaced, it's a fact of life. And once again you do not own a single bug or coin so you have no personal experience with this issue either.

 

I agree the comment might have been a bit snarky but personally attempting to attack someone on points that you yourself have no experience with is nothing short of hypocritical!

[Rocketsteve]

your statement has a very condescending tone to it.

 

Therein lies the main problem. In the forums, posts often have a problem of no tone (or voice inflection). There for it is quite easy to be misunderstood.

 

Your post comes across as argumentative and name calling, not as honest and thoughtful conversation. I know you do not mean it that way, but in this format, and not face to face, it can be taken that way.

 

In no way was I intending to be patronizing toward Clan Riffster, I respect his posts and usually agree with him.

 

4wheelin_fool said it best, Freedom of speech is not a one way street.

Head on collisions can occur anywhere, anyway.

 

OK, enough said, unless we can discuss it over a cup of coffee face to face, (where I bet we really would not be in disagreement.) I will try to stay on topic for the rest of this post.

 

If I ever make it up to Auburn, I'll be sure to take you up on that cup of coffee and a spirited face to face.

[+NeecesandNephews]

And yet another appearance from a poster who has little to say about the topic, but much to say about my comments. Amazing.

 

You evidently did not read the whole topic or understand it.

Where I come from... 30?... thats more than a dozen.

Feel free to look at the listings in my area. There arent thousands. We are somewhat rural and 30 represents the majority of the caches within a 30 minute drive. I can't believe I am wasting my time defending this!!

So if I park my car in a public lot and someone steals out of it, I should just go about my business?? Hmmm OK if you say so.

 

Lastly NONE of the remarks I made were directed at you were they???? So why do YOU feel the need to atack ME when you weren't even a part of the conversation until you did????

And you have the nerve to post this----

I agree the comment might have been a bit snarky but personally attempting to attack someone on points that you yourself have no experience with is nothing short of hypocritical!

You seemed to have gotten caught up in responding to my words (which werent directed at you) and failed to realize the point I was trying to draw attention to. I need add nothing more!!!!

Thank you for your comments And thank you for pointing out what a hypocrite I am!!! I hope in the future to be EXACTLY like you!!! Butt into a conversation that did not include me, and attack someone who was NOT talking to me, or about me, and be quick to point out their faults!!! Such a lofty goal for me to attempt!!!! I only hope someday to attain it!!!

[+apyro]

And yet another appearance from a poster who has little to say about the topic, but much to say about my comments. Amazing.

 

You evidently did not read the whole topic or understand it.

Where I come from... 30?... thats more than a dozen.

Feel free to look at the listings in my area. There arent thousands. We are somewhat rural and 30 represents the majority of the caches within a 30 minute drive. I can't believe I am wasting my time defending this!!

So if I park my car in a public lot and someone steals out of it, I should just go about my business?? Hmmm OK if you say so.

 

Lastly NONE of the remarks I made were directed at you were they???? So why do YOU feel the need to atack ME when you weren't even a part of the conversation until you did????

And you have the nerve to post this----

I agree the comment might have been a bit snarky but personally attempting to attack someone on points that you yourself have no experience with is nothing short of hypocritical!

You seemed to have gotten caught up in responding to my words (which werent directed at you) and failed to realize the point I was trying to draw attention to. I need add nothing more!!!!

Thank you for your comments And thank you for pointing out what a hypocrite I am!!! I hope in the future to be EXACTLY like you!!! Butt into a conversation that did not include me, and attack someone who was NOT talking to me, or about me, and be quick to point out their faults!!! Such a lofty goal for me to attempt!!!! I only hope someday to attain it!!!

 

I don't believe one needs to be directly involved to share their opinion, in fact I thought that was the purpose of the forums. In addition, when you publicly respond to someone, others innately are involved. I do have plenty to say about the topic, however you felt the need to post a huge attack to someone who posted one line. How are my comments out of line in comparison to that? I clearly posted my view in my response. There are a number of differences that should be quite obvious from car theft to cache pirating. Caches are left on public property with the intention to be found by other, yes there things people should abide by, but legally I'm not sure it could be defined as stealing.

 

I can see, as you did (which I commend you for) talking to people about what the intention of caching is, and trying to help them see what they are doing is wrong. That was the perfect way to handle it. And your desire to relocate coins and bugs was also a reasonable solution to losing more valuable items.

 

However, maybe it is different in a rural area, but police are constantly dealing with a huge assortment of problems that they don't have the time or resources to effectively handle. They get paid relatively little for what they do and in most case are heavily worked. I don't understand why you would want your tax dollars to go to "catching" people who as many other have said, will probably eventually stop as I doubt they would care enough to find more caches on their own. It would take far more tax dollars in man hours and resources than what was being taken from the caches. This game is suppose to be fun, so they are stealing our swag, it sucks, but making a legal issue out of it is not going to help anybody! I understand your words were not directed at me, but when you make a public comment with arguments that don't make sense you should expect others to share their opinions. If you were not interested in the what first posted, or other who thought calling the cops was out of line, had to say you should not have posted it in a public place! I think you need to rethink your view of public, when it comes to caching and posting.

 

I am a teacher, and perfectly capable of counting. I was not in anyway attacking your number of caches! That was not my intent. Your comment stated something to the extent of "when you have found a dozen caches this way (I'm assuming you meant pirated/maggoted, etc.) maybe you would feel differently." I was simply stating I find it hard to believe that 12 of the 30 caches you have found have been in this state when you found them. If so, as I stated that's sad and it sounds like locally something needs to be done (not involving the police!!!).

 

In fact, I was responding directly to your argument and wondering why you expect someone to understand why you would call the police through a list of these very specific circumstances that you have not yourself been through. It seems odd.

 

I did read the posting, and understood what you were posting about. I simply do not believe the police are out of line, legally or by any means of being able to reasonably maintain their responsibilities. In fact I'm not sure most cachers really want police involved. We want them to understand so cachers don't get into legal trouble, which it sounds like he did have at least that much of a grasp. But if we do that we are asking for negative publicity, more regulations and laws, and most likely more trouble for ourselves than it's worth.

 

It is not possible to butt into a conversation in a public forum. There are private messages which you could have easily used to dispute the comment if you had not wanted others to see or being to comment on it.

 

I am not a negative person, however negativity can not always be responded to with positivity. I am not asking you to be like me, but if you want that as a goal, go for it. In the future if you want your negative comments, and attacks to an individual to remain between you and them keep it out of a PUBLIC forum!

[+thedeadpirate]

Guess I'll throw my 1/2 cent worth in.

 

(It is possible to butt into a forum conversation. It's quite difficult sometimes to resist the temptation not to do so)

 

While I understand why the OP might have wanted to call the police, I don't understand why he actually did call them.

 

I understand some here believe that caches remain the property of the cache owner even when placed out on public land. However, in this case that is irrelevant. The cache was cleaned out, but not taken.

 

Think of it like this. Businesses around here often put out metal boxes with pamphlets containing information, menus, etc. The police are not going to come out if someone decides to clean one of those boxes out. However, they would very likely come out if someone stole the actual container.

 

When it comes to caching, I would not reasonably expect the police to come out even if the container was stolen. I've had a couple of containers taken. It never crossed my mind to call the police.

 

Then again, I didn't have license plate numbers either.

 

I like the fact that the OP comes to the forums to ask questions and attempt to find the proper resolution to situations he comes across as a new cacher. However, he should understand that the nature of forums is that you will not always get the response you were looking for and you cannot always be certain of tone or even the scope of a response.

 

Some of us try to make liberal use of smilies to capture tone, but even that is not effective at times.

 

I don't mean to sound hypocritical here because I am often guilty of not following this, but most of the time it is much better to just ignore snarky comments and maybe ask for clarification on marginal comments before responding. And sometimes, even if you don't like the way an opinion was written, it still pays to listen to core of the comment. Just because a comment might have come off in a not so nice way, it doesn't mean it's wrong.

[+NeecesandNephews]

Ok... as it is becoming increasingly difficult (it seems) to have a topic discussed without it turning into personal attacks, I guess I should just stay out of them.

It amazes me to no end that people will come on this public forum, post in a thread asking opinion, and totally miss the fact the opinion I was asking for was in relation to the topic, NOT a defense I made against a poster who seems to like to post snotty remarks in reply to things I say.

Had this been the first time it happened I probably would have shrugged it off, but it seems to keep repeating. I didn't bring up his "stats" as a response to the topic, I brought them up in response to his snotty comment.

It amazes me even more... someone continues to criticize me for doing something, while THEY themselves (in doing that) are doing the same thing. In PUBLIC!!! If you feel the need to give me advice or correct me for something you feel is bad "public form" YOU could feel free to do it in private yourself, instead of doing the very thing you "call me down" on. I have my profile set to receive emails.

I DID NOT ask for your opinion about my comments to any one else. I asked for your opinion on the original topic. YOU took it upon yourself to respond, but you felt the need to give your opinion , and an etiquette lesson, on a comment I made to someone else, and criticize me for the fashion in which I did it. This additional "lesson" was never solicited nor even implied as such.

 

Feel free to reread my original post. I stated these kids had a list of what looked to me like a dozen or so caches. They didnt hand me the paper so I was generalizing. Might have been ten, might have been fifteen, that was not the point.

I liken this to me leaving a note on the windshield of my wife's car parked at the public lot at the University she works at. In this note I hypotheticaly say " I left your camera in my truck, its parked in the back row" of the same public lot. I left the note in public, but with the expectation that it would be read by the "person" I left it to. I do not expect some college kid to read it, and go steal her camera. Now I realize this would not be the smart thing to do.

But the basic premise is this... caches posted on the website, while public as you mention, are done so with the reasonable expectation of them being read by people looking for "their camera". If you want to fault me for trying to remain positive in my outlook that most humans are "good" people, feel free to do so. If you further want to fault me in finding it dissappointing, and wanting to change it, when someone takes advantage of that note I left, again feel free. As I have stated in other posts, apathy benefits no one. What will these kids choose as their next target when the cache supply is exhausted?? Vehicles perhaps?? As I stated if YOU want to turn a blind eye and do nothing, that is your right, but don't criticize me for trying to do something.

I would add, in response to your comment :

I am not a negative person, however negativity can not always be responded to with positivity. I am not asking you to be like me, but if you want that as a goal, go for it. In the future if you want your negative comments, and attacks to an individual to remain between you and them keep it out of a PUBLIC forum!

Bolding is mine

I do not understand the need for you to respond to what you perceived as a negative comment, at all. Especially as it was not directed at you. (see above) That you would jump to quick action like that, all the while criticizing me for doing the same with the raiders, stumps me. I understand the response to the opinion I solicited in the original post. But again, not to the additional length you felt you needed to go to.

You took it upon yourself, as a bystanding witness to the response I made to someone elses snotty comment, to step in and do something. Yet you fault the logic I used in calling the police.

I guess what I am trying to point out is, its amazing that people will jump up and act in response to a post on an online forum, but do nothing (or suggest what I did was wrong) when these caches are being raided. Perhaps if you were standing right there when these raiders appeared, as opposed to reading about it, you might have handled the situation differently.

I don't know you, and to my recollection, have never encountered you in any thread I have posted on here. So I have no personal grudge with you. I just don't understand your need to get involved with something you were quick to point out to me, and I completely agree, should have been private.

Geo you are correct. You cannot always read the "tone" of comments, and I try to take that into consideration. I have shot from the hip and blown off my toe on more than one occasion!! But I have noted a "trend" with certain comments. My response, which I agree, should have been private, was once again my misguided attempt to somehow "fix" the problem.

I dont mind responses which differ from my view. But too many times responses are posted (as you are well aware) to comments made off topic, at an individual, that were between those two parties.

When I read posts, and respond, unless I am the OP I try to confine my responses to the topic, NOT something off topic between others.

[knowschad]

Tickets!! Getcher tickets here! Getcher tickets while they last...

[Keystone]

The thread is about cache pirates and owners who abandon their caches. It is not about what Billy said about Suzy's response to Johnny's post. Get back on topic. Thanks.

[4wheelin_fool]

Well if you can't teach the cache pirates respect by hiding difficult multis or puzzles, perhaps you could try to prey on their fears.

 

Try to figure out what will drive them away screaming. In Vietnam, US soldiers often wore the Ace of Spades card on their helmet due to the superstitious paranoia of the spades card. Perhaps a picture of Rosie O'Donnell in a bathing suit laminated to the lid of the cache would have a similar effect.

[knowschad]

Well if you can't teach the cache pirates respect by hiding difficult multis or puzzles, perhaps you could try to prey on their fears.

 

Try to figure out what will drive them away screaming. In Vietnam, US soldiers often wore the Ace of Spades card on their helmet due to the superstitious paranoia of the spades card. Perhaps a picture of Rosie O'Donnell in a bathing suit laminated to the lid of the cache would have a similar effect.

Well, speak of the devil!!!

[+NeecesandNephews]

Knowschad I will be expecting the "customary" 15% cut of ticket sales!!!!!!

 

Keystone thank you for bluntly stating the point I was long-windedly trying to make myself. I feel your statement was directed at me also.

 

I don't have all the solutions to all the problems. That is what leads me to ask opinion in the first place. As it has been pointed out I am new, and enthusiastic, and I agree calling the cops was overreacting on my part, but I was trying to use every option I had. To anyone who cares to look , my zip is 73096, there aren't a proliferation of caches to choose from. So I will defend them in what may be perceived to be a stronger manner than a location that has hundreds. If I truly did not care, I would have done nothing at all. I mean after all, I already have the smiley for finding these caches. Looking at it from an apathetic standpoint, these clown didn't ruin anything for me, with the possible exception of several I haven't been able to find muggle-free when I drove by, and therefore haven't made the attempt to find them yet. I was trying to defend them for the others who follow. In the second part of the original post, several caches I already got smileys on, are no longer. So there are already fewer of them.

I realize some people will say the best way to improve that situation is to go hide some quality caches myself. As I have stated, I don't feel I am at that point yet. I don't want to end up one of the people these topics complain about.

I think the comments made here should be toward that end. Including mine, and I am well aware they have not been, for the most part.(including mine)

4wheelin_fool that would do it for me!!! Or a picture of Hillary Clinton.

[GOF and Bacall]

...Or a picture of Hillary Clinton.

 

In a bathing suit? Isn't that against the Geneva Conventions or something? Just seems like the punishment with either of those persons in the picture may be a tad bit harsh for the crime. Just cut off a thumb and call it good.

[knowschad]

Or a picture of Hillary Clinton.

Anyone want me to post a picture of that???

 

 

I didn't think so.

[+NeecesandNephews]

Or a picture of Hillary Clinton.

Anyone want me to post a picture of that???

 

 

I didn't think so.

 

Talk about a buzzkiller. That would do it. I am cringing at the thought!!!

[GOF and Bacall]

Or a picture of Hillary Clinton.

Anyone want me to post a picture of that???

 

 

I didn't think so.

 

You could become the first ever on my forum ignore list.