Snow/Winter Icon Use

[+flaffle]

I'm in SCPA we have about 2 ft. of snow on the ground right now which is highly unusual. I'd like to break out my snowshoes and go do some caching. I ran a winter attribute PQ for my area and left in the caches I've already found. For some of the ones that's I've found, I know they're not snow friendly - they are on the ground! This is highly discouraging as I don't want to waste time looking for something that's under 2 ft. of snow.

 

In your experience, how do you use or what do expect out of the snow attribute? Personally I would expect this to mean it's either a) way off the ground or inside of something that's off the ground (cave, wall, etc.)?

 

Have you seen caches that use this icon that are clearly not snow friendly?

[knowschad]

Previous conversations about this have revealed that there are at least two interpretations for that attribute.

Where I live, most of us think as you do... that a cache with a "winter-friendly" attribute means that the cache is, well... "winter-friendly". That it is not on the ground, or if so, is at least protected by maybe a hollow tree or something like that.

But the other interpretation, which is equally valid, thinks that the attribute means that its OK to hunt for it in the winter. Essentially, that the park is open. I know of one cacher that put the Not Winter OK attribute on a cache of his, not because it can't be found in the winter, but that he knows that the rooting around will tear up too much of the ground cover.

[+Mini-Geek]

When I applied the winter friendly icon to my cache I used this theory.

 

The average depth of snowfall in gloucester is around 3 to 4 inches, my cache is accessible in these conditions, so I applied the winter friendly attribute.

 

I would assume most cachers apply this attribute thinking about the normal/average amount of snow fall. So with you having an unusualy deep amount of snow, even some of the caches with the winter friendly attribute may not be accessible.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Mini-Geek

[+reedkickball]

When I applied the winter friendly icon to my cache I used this theory.

 

The average depth of snowfall in gloucester is around 3 to 4 inches, my cache is accessible in these conditions, so I applied the winter friendly attribute.

 

I would assume most cachers apply this attribute thinking about the normal/average amount of snow fall. So with you having an unusualy deep amount of snow, even some of the caches with the winter friendly attribute may not be accessible.

 

I usually put a snow icon if it's easily accessible in a foot of snow. But we don't have any location that restricts access in the winter, so consequently the "accessible" interpretation is the only one that makes sense here.

[+StarBrand]

The problem of interpretation comes in the popup wording of the Icon - "winter accessible". Since there are lots of areas around my stomping grounds that are closed or off-limits during the winter, thats how many locals use it. However, I understand the "can be found in the snow" meaning as well.

[+narcissa]

It varies widely. For some people, it simply means that the land on which the cache is placed are open in the winter. The more widely accepted meaning is that the cache is hidden in a manner that makes it accessible in winter conditions.

 

Where I live and cache, that means the cache needs to be several feet off the ground, or sheltered in some way. At the very least, a "winter friendly" cache should have a hint that will guide cachers to the correct spot in order to minimize digging.

 

Sometimes, the best way to tell if a cache is "winter friendly" is to scan through the logs and see how often it's found in the winter months.

[+Printess Caroline]

 

In your experience, how do you use or what do expect out of the snow attribute? Personally I would expect this to mean it's either a) way off the ground or inside of something that's off the ground (cave, wall, etc.)?

 

Have you seen caches that use this icon that are clearly not snow friendly?

 

My definition of accessible in winter is the same as yours. And, yes, I have seen caches with this icon that I would not consider snow-friendly. As Knowschad said in his post, different cache owners apply different definitions to the icon. My suggestion is, now that you have your list of caches with that icon, that you go through them individually. You now know from experience some of the cachers that don't have the same definition of the snow attribute that you have. I would exclude those cachers caches from your list of possibilities first. Then, go through the caches' log histories to try to determine which ones are snow friendly. On occasion, I have contacted cache owners to ask.

[+briansnat]

I use it if someone would have a reasonable expectation of finding the cache with snow on the ground. I believe that is the intent of the icon.

 

Nearly all caches are "winter accessible" so using it for that purpose would be as superfluous as having a summer, spring or fall accessible icon.

Edited February 8, 2010 by briansnat

[+flipjargendy]

One thing I have been finding is that, if there is a cache with a "winter friendly" icon the parking lot might not be plowed, so there is really nowhere to legally park. If you live somewhere where you get enough snow to get stuck in, I think you should at least leave a note stating whether it is "winter friendly but no parking in the winter" or something like that. I have gone to two caches and have not been able to get them because I have nowhere to park and walking is not an option because cars are traveling 60MPH on the road it was on. I am not going take that risk for a cache.

[knowschad]

Nearly all caches are "winter accessible" so using it for that purpose would be as superfluous as having a summer, spring or fall accessible icon.

Often not true in the mountains, Brian. Many of them may require 4x4 access even at the peak of summer.

[+briansnat]

Nearly all caches are "winter accessible" so using it for that purpose would be as superfluous as having a summer, spring or fall accessible icon.

Often not true in the mountains, Brian. Many of them may require 4x4 access even at the peak of summer.

 

That doesn't mean that the cache site is not accessible. Snowshoes, snowmobile, cross country skis all can get you to the cache site if you are determined. The only caches that aren't accessible are those where entry is prohibited in the winter and those are very few.

[+narcissa]

We have several caches around here that are much easier to get in the winter, because they're on islands you can walk to once the ice is thick enough. Winter also makes caches hidden in swampy areas easier to get to, if you have snowshoes or cross-country skis. I'm a bit of a wuss about the cold sometimes, but if I'm well-dressed for the weather, walking across the swamp to a cache in February sure beats wading through it in June.

 

And despite what you may have heard about Canadian mosquitoes, there aren't any out in February.

[+cerberus1]

We have a few that are deemed, "NOT available in Winter".

Some folks see that as a challenge to find 'em, even though we said ON THE CACHE PAGE that the lot isn't plowed- you'll get stuck and Muggles will find them- please don't look.

Sure enough, people get stuck (we see their tracks/diggings while driving by) and caches are muggled.

Sometimes I think it's better to just temp. archive 'em than think people will READ the cache page, similar to temp. archive during hunting (two week deer/rifle) season on game lands.

[knowschad]

Nearly all caches are "winter accessible" so using it for that purpose would be as superfluous as having a summer, spring or fall accessible icon.

Often not true in the mountains, Brian. Many of them may require 4x4 access even at the peak of summer.

That doesn't mean that the cache site is not accessible. Snowshoes, snowmobile, cross country skis all can get you to the cache site if you are determined. The only caches that aren't accessible are those where entry is prohibited in the winter and those are very few.

Well, that is all true, but that doesn't mean that the cache owner will consider all of those options when setting up attributes. All you're saying is that a Not Winter-Friendly attribute does not mean that you absolutely will not be able to get the cache.

I know of a couple of underwater caches near me that are marked as being not winter friendly. In fact, they get disabled in the winter. Doesn't mean that you couldn't chip or auger a hole in the ice and dive for them in a drysuit.

[+The Weasel]

I think for the most part, I echo what everybody else is saying.

 

All caches are almost winter friendly, it's just how much work you want to do to get to them.

 

For MY caches, the cache will only get the winter symbol if it is well above ground and won't be burried under the snow.

 

I do put on my other caches that they might not be availble in the winter and to hunt at their own risk.

[+DragonsWest]

In coastal California the Winter attribute generally conveys the cache will not require crossing a normally dry streambed, is away from deep mud, won't require ascending/descending slippery paths or is in an area which is not closed for the season or off limits to seasonal foot traffic.