Cache Inside of a Library

[StephenCarboni]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

[+wimseyguy]

Sure, you just will have a hard time getting it published at geocaching.com. Caches here should be available to anyone with the desire to find them.

[+StarBrand]

Sure, you just will have a hard time getting it published at geocaching.com. Caches here should be available to anyone with the desire to find them.

Agreed.

[+Touchstone]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

 

I'd also point out that the fact that "only people who go to a certain college can get in", implies that explicit permission would be required to place the cache, since the library only services the college student body and faculty, from the sounds of it.

 

But otherwise, what wimseguy said. Caches should be available to all.....or at least as much as physical and mental capacity allows (i.e. 5* Puzzle Caches, and 5* Terrain caches).

[+Renegade Knight]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

 

Most college libraries (things could have changed) would let about anyone in, but only a few could check anything out. If this is the case then with the right approache the cache should be listable on this site.

[+buttaskotch]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

 

Most college libraries (things could have changed) would let about anyone in, but only a few could check anything out. If this is the case then with the right approache the cache should be listable on this site.

Things have changed, most college libraries now require a college ID to enter the premises

[+Renegade Knight]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

 

Most college libraries (things could have changed) would let about anyone in, but only a few could check anything out. If this is the case then with the right approache the cache should be listable on this site.

Things have changed, most college libraries now require a college ID to enter the premises

 

Thanks. You would think we taxpayers who fund these things (at least the public Universities) would have access. But locking down more of our world is the latest trend.

[+The VanDucks]

Maybe you should place your cache in a public library instead; you could make it a "premium members only" if you're concerned about too many cachers finding it. We've found a few caches in public libraries (one was a nano, another a small magnetic keycase; both were the end stage of a multi cache) If you do place it in a building that's only open certain hours, you should post the hours in the cache description.

[+Chig-gar-roo-gar-rem]

im a noob, but wouldnt you have trouble with your GPSr indoors?

[+Team Cotati]

My suggestion would be to come up with a different cache hiding idea.

[+The VanDucks]

Yes, the GPSr might not work in a large building; the caches we found in libraries were 2nd stages of multicaches and the first stage gave a hint, such as the category of books near the final, so we had a chance of finding it without the use of coordinates. The real challenge is finding a library cache is outwitting muggles!

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

im a noob, but wouldnt you have trouble with your GPSr indoors?

Many GPSr units will not hold a signal inside of a heavily structured building. Newer ones are better at it, but even they loose sats inside. Comes down to signal reception strength.

[+buttaskotch]

And make sure there is explicit permission from the library!!!

On a second thought, this can actually tie into a bigger communal experience, by teaching people about geocaching and creating an event at the library with a few event only caches to start noobs off with learning the ABC's of geocaching and then placing a commemorative cache in the library (hollowed out book with cache inside, or actually with the librarian)

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

I can't remember being denied access to a College library anywhere that I've gone? Are you sure that only students have access?

Edited February 1, 2010 by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

[+SYOTT]

There's 3 or 4 library caches in my area... each of them are puzzle caches with the solved puzzle being the library location & catalog location or just the catalog location itself... they're very fun caches to do

[+Prime Suspect]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

Besides the fact that library caches, like sudoku puzzle caches, have been done to death, why do you want to take an outdoor activity and make people go indoors? I go geocaching to be outdoors, not to be in a library.

[+bittsen]

It's been done in public libraries.

 

One of my caching friends has told me of a really nice cache that's hidden in a book in the library near here.

[+buttaskotch]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

I can't remember being denied access to a College library anywhere that I've gone? Are you sure that only students have access?

YEP, even when I was in college and left my ID at home I would have to go to the bursar's office to get a temp. This was like 10 years ago. Recently, I was visiting a friend in a college town and they only allowed me in cause I was with him and showed an ID and signed in.

[+bladesedge]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

Besides the fact that library caches, like sudoku puzzle caches, have been done to death, why do you want to take an outdoor activity and make people go indoors? I go geocaching to be outdoors, not to be in a library.

I guess that depends on where you're from. We have only one library cache here - its about 50kms away in this cool small-town library. Quite the novelty really as its only open at certain times, certain days of the week - everyone's excited to do it.

[+sbell111]

Would it be OK to place a cache inside of a library where only people who go to a certain college can get in? Something like a cache for those people.

Besides the fact that library caches, like sudoku puzzle caches, have been done to death, why do you want to take an outdoor activity and make people go indoors? I go geocaching to be outdoors, not to be in a library.

I can't think of a single time when I haven't had to go outdoors to get to the library.

[+GeoGeeBee]

YEP, even when I was in college and left my ID at home I would have to go to the bursar's office to get a temp. This was like 10 years ago. Recently, I was visiting a friend in a college town and they only allowed me in cause I was with him and showed an ID and signed in.

 

Strange... we have LOTS of colleges around here, and I think I've been in the libraries at all of them. No one has ever asked me for any kind of ID. That includes several community colleges, three state universities, and one private university.

 

I'm rather surprised to learn that it's not like that everywhere. I wouldn't have been surprised to be asked for ID at Duke, although it would have really sucked. (The librarians there were even willing to fetch a few rare books from the closed stacks so that I could make notes from them, even though I have no affiliation to the university.) If one of the state universities denied me access, I'd raise quite a stink. (No, not right then and there... with my elected representatives. If my taxes pay for it, I dadgum well better have access to it!)

 

I've only ever been in one library where one was expected to show ID upon entering, and that was at Tulane's School of Medicine. But even there, they would let you in if you just told them what you were looking for.

 

I've never met a librarian who wouldn't bend over backwards to help anyone who asked.

 

Still, (to get back on topic), I'm not sure I see the point of putting a cache in a library. If one is published in my area, especially if it's a puzzle, I'll probably look for it. I can't imagine myself hiding one, though. Maybe they are placed by geocaching librarians?

[+LeoGeo]

Strange... we have LOTS of colleges around here, and I think I've been in the libraries at all of them. No one has ever asked me for any kind of ID. That includes several community colleges, three state universities, and one private university.

 

[...]

 

I've never met a librarian who wouldn't bend over backwards to help anyone who asked.

 

 

Ditto. Some of the Ivy League schools have ludicriously snotty access policies (yeah, Princeton, I'm especially talkin' about YOU), but in all other college libraries I've never had a problem with just walking right in. Even the rare-medical-books room at the UNC med school, which is understandably locked, was opened for me when I explained what I wanted to look for (and I'm not even a doctor).

 

And ditto: Librarians rock!

[+Kit Fox]

Even if you did get permission from the library, I highly doubt your cache would meet the GPS usage requirements.

 

A tidbit I received from a reviewer for a cache I recently attempted to place "inside" of a nature center.

 

caches require GPS usage be an integral part to finding the cache. While you could make an argument that using the posted coordinates to find the building qualify, that's pretty thin. The simplest solution that comes to my mind is posting coordinates to someplace in the parking lot where a micro is hidden. Inside the micro is a message saying that the cacher should ask inside for the cache. This makes it a simple multi, but also solves the issue of lack of GPS usage.

[+sbell111]

Even if you did get permission from the library, I highly doubt your cache would meet the GPS usage requirements.

 

A tidbit I received from a reviewer for a cache I recently attempted to place "inside" of a nature center.

 

caches require GPS usage be an integral part to finding the cache. While you could make an argument that using the posted coordinates to find the building qualify, that's pretty thin. The simplest solution that comes to my mind is posting coordinates to someplace in the parking lot where a micro is hidden. Inside the micro is a message saying that the cacher should ask inside for the cache. This makes it a simple multi, but also solves the issue of lack of GPS usage.

This very issue has been hashed out in the forums many times. Basically, it comes down to whether the person is able to tell that they are going to end up inside the library prior to pulling out their GPSr. In general, if the library isn't identified, a cache that has coordinates taking someone somewhere outside the library and then clues that lead inside the library and to the cache should be listed (permission issue not withstanding).

[+Kit Fox]

 

This very issue has been hashed out in the forums many times. Basically, it comes down to whether the person is able to tell that they are going to end up inside the library prior to pulling out their GPSr. In general, if the library isn't identified, a cache that has coordinates taking someone somewhere outside the library and then clues that lead inside the library and to the cache should be listed (permission issue not withstanding).

 

After an appeal to Groundspeak, I lost, and have to turn the cache into a multi.

[MikeB3542]

A Geocacher's Story (GC162Z3) is a good example in our area. Yes, you need a GPSr to find the waypoints, but, no you don't ask at the desk where it is. Remember, there are other ways of "navigating" a library that don't involve a GPSr. (Tip of the hat to AuntieNae, who put the hide together, and has done great things for geocaching in SE WI).

[+sbell111]

 

This very issue has been hashed out in the forums many times. Basically, it comes down to whether the person is able to tell that they are going to end up inside the library prior to pulling out their GPSr. In general, if the library isn't identified, a cache that has coordinates taking someone somewhere outside the library and then clues that lead inside the library and to the cache should be listed (permission issue not withstanding).

 

After an appeal to Groundspeak, I lost, and have to turn the cache into a multi.

I'm pretty sure that all caches inside libraries would have to either be multis or puzzles, since by definition it could not be a traditional.

[+tumbleweed2]

I'm pretty sure that all caches inside libraries would have to either be multis or puzzles, since by definition it could not be a traditional.

 

I don't understand what you mean, "by definition". Where is that definition listed?

[+thedeadpirate]

I'm pretty sure that all caches inside libraries would have to either be multis or puzzles, since by definition it could not be a traditional.

 

I don't understand what you mean, "by definition". Where is that definition listed?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions.

 

** Edited to fix botched quote

Edited February 22, 2010 by GeoBain

[+The Ravens]

Here is a library cache that's not a Puzzle/Mystery Cache. Out of the 5 library caches I've found only 1 was a traditional. I would say a library cache doesn't have to be a puzzle/mystery... only if you make it that way.

[+The Ravens]

GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions.

 

That still doesn't fly. Coordinates to the cache lead me to the front door. Cache page states that the cache is inside.

 

Edit to add: If that were the case then all caches inside buildings would have to be puzzles.

Edited February 22, 2010 by The Ravens

[+Max and 99]

We've found one cache inside a library (loved it!) at UCSB, and a gps wasn't needed. And by the way, we all just walked right in- no one questioned us about being there.

Another library cache we attempted twice, and the book that has the cache is available for check-out, so the cache isn't always IN the library. That ticked me off!

[+thedeadpirate]

Here is a library cache that's not a Puzzle/Mystery Cache. Out of the 5 library caches I've found only 1 was a traditional. I would say a library cache doesn't have to be a puzzle/mystery... only if you make it that way.

 

I'm fairly certain that cache predates the current guideline requiring the use of a GPS as an integral part of the hunt. I don't keep copies of all the revisions though.

 

I do know that I have found a number of library (or inside building) caches prior to the change. They are grandfathered in since they existed prior to the change.

 

To be honest, with the accuracy of Google Maps, I'm not sure why it really matters. But TPTB wanted to ensure that gps useage was integrated into the caches so it is what it is.

[+The Ravens]

Here is a library cache that's not a Puzzle/Mystery Cache. Out of the 5 library caches I've found only 1 was a traditional. I would say a library cache doesn't have to be a puzzle/mystery... only if you make it that way.

 

I'm fairly certain that cache predates the current guideline requiring the use of a GPS as an integral part of the hunt. I don't keep copies of all the revisions though.

 

I do know that I have found a number of library (or inside building) caches prior to the change. They are grandfathered in since they existed prior to the change.

 

To be honest, with the accuracy of Google Maps, I'm not sure why it really matters. But TPTB wanted to ensure that gps useage was integrated into the caches so it is what it is.

 

 

September 2008?? hmmm... I don't think so. I remember reading that guideline in May of that year when I started caching.

[+thedeadpirate]

Here is a library cache that's not a Puzzle/Mystery Cache. Out of the 5 library caches I've found only 1 was a traditional. I would say a library cache doesn't have to be a puzzle/mystery... only if you make it that way.

 

I'm fairly certain that cache predates the current guideline requiring the use of a GPS as an integral part of the hunt. I don't keep copies of all the revisions though.

 

I do know that I have found a number of library (or inside building) caches prior to the change. They are grandfathered in since they existed prior to the change.

 

To be honest, with the accuracy of Google Maps, I'm not sure why it really matters. But TPTB wanted to ensure that gps useage was integrated into the caches so it is what it is.

 

 

September 2008?? hmmm... I don't think so. I remember reading that guideline in May of that year when I started caching.

 

Actually the wayback machine shows it as being part of the guidelines all the way back to 2005. So, I would have to ask the reviewer why the cache was approved in it's current form.

 

I can say that just the other day Keystone spoke to a similar issue in another thread.

 

I would like to thank everyone who responded! Several of the previous posts are in line with how I was planning to answer the OP's email. Let's pretend I wasn't quite so busy, and had answered the message. Here is a reviewer note that I wrote on February 12th for another cache submission. I was planning on modifying it to be responsive to the OP's email.

 

Hello, I am a volunteer for Geocaching.com, and I reviewed your cache. I'm writing to explain an issue that needs to be fixed before your cache can be published on the website. Your container is located indoors, in a building clearly described on the cache page. I don't need my GPS to find this cache - in fact, once I arrived and parked, I'd be foolish to take the GPS out of my car. It wouldn't work inside the library.

 

Under our listing guidelines, GPS usage is an "essential" component of every cache placement. I would like to work with you to modify your cache design so that it includes the use of GPS coordinates. Here are some examples of how the cache could work:

 

1. Finders use their GPS to find a container outside the library, like hanging in a tree behind the building. Inside the container is a clue sheet telling the finder to come inside to sign the log and trade items from the cache container.

 

2. Finders visit the library to locate an indoors clue giving them the coordinates to a container hidden outdoors for them to find using a GPS. (Either option 1 or option 2 would be listed as a "Multi-Cache.")

 

3. Simply move the container to an outdoors location, in order to keep it as a "Traditional" cache.

 

4. Keep the container indoors at the library, but remove all text from the cache page that would suggest where the cache is located, so that finders would navigate to the front door and be surprised to find out where they had arrived. (Since you want to talk a bit about the library on your cache page, I imagine it won't appeal to you.)

 

After reading this explanation, please let me know when you've modified your cache to meet the guidelines, or if you have any questions.

To this message, I would have added two other comments:

 

-- the six caches at the main library would need to be combined into a single multi-cache; and

-- if the cache page text goes too far in promoting libraries and National Library Week, this could run afoul of the "agenda" clause in the guidelines -- "Caches that Solicit."

 

Finally, I would have noted that one or more of the impediments could be overcome by writing directly to Groundspeak and asking for an exception. As a volunteer I have less latitude to grant exceptions, especially on the "Caches that Solicit" guideline.

[+cpine]

Maybe you should place your cache in a public library instead; you could make it a "premium members only" if you're concerned about too many cachers finding it. We've found a few caches in public libraries (one was a nano, another a small magnetic keycase; both were the end stage of a multi cache) If you do place it in a building that's only open certain hours, you should post the hours in the cache description.

I found one in my local public library which was coordinated by the placer with the library. Itw as a multi that had to be solved etc then you got to the final and had to do a search on the library database.. I wont' give anymore away. But after the search it actually had its own dewey decimal number etc. (On a referance shelf) Was very cool!

 

Chris

[+buzzy_cacher]

You would need to get permission from the library. I know someone whose cache can't be published (even though it's just a piece of paper tucked into the book cover [confused? log for a multi -- 2nd to last cache gave dewy decimal #s, not coords]). Too bad.... I would've been FTF

[+briansnat]

GPS usage is an essential element of geocaching. Therefore, although it is possible to find a cache without a GPS, the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions.

 

That still doesn't fly. Coordinates to the cache lead me to the front door. Cache page states that the cache is inside.

 

Edit to add: If that were the case then all caches inside buildings would have to be puzzles.

 

Generally all caches inside buildings would have to be multis or puzzles, unless the GPS works inside the building (by that I mean providing accurate coordinates, not just a signal).

 

Despite The Ravens' example, it would be unlikely for anybody to get an indoor traditional cache published unless it can be proved that GPS usage is an integral part of the hunt.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

I think a mystery or multi cache utilizing the computerized card catalog and passages within the books to solve the coordinate of a cache located outside the library might be easier. (unless you can get it in the card catalog like GC6C21)

Every library has reference books or special collections that cant be checked out. And there are always the old books that just sit on the shelf.

 

In my 5 years going to Iowa State nobody ever checked out a 1924 book on chickens that included a section entitled "How To Sex Chicks" which became a running joke with my friends and often would have DVDs placed behind it on the shelf for us to exchange on the fly btwn classes.

 

In fact, I think I may have to use my local library's microfiche and microfilm collection to develop a mystery cache this summer.

Edited February 23, 2010 by bramasoleiowa

[euicho]

Maybe you should place your cache in a public library instead; you could make it a "premium members only" if you're concerned about too many cachers finding it.

 

Hmm, I may be ignorant or just naive, and this isn't a personal criticism, rather one of the Groundspeak membership system in general, but doesn't "premium members only" invalidate the earlier comment of "Caches here should be available to anyone with the desire to find them."? I'm genuinely curious of your thoughts on the subject (maybe this has been hashed out already but I've yet to find it by searching the forums).

[+Moonsouth]

I think that would just "up" the challenge to get the cache. You would first need to either obtain a student Id card or have someone with access to the cache retrieve it for you.

[pictom]

I have twice shown up caching at a location and searched very close to a building, which both times happen to be libraries, only to walk away with a DNF. On the first one, while logging the cache I realized it was listed as being inside a building. This comes from me creating a query of all traditional caches in an area and off I go, not reading all the pages (I want to be outside looking for caches, not sitting inside reading about caches). I was okay with this.

But this past weekend I had a chance to go to an area I don't get to too often. The last time I was out in that area I completed some puzzles. This one was still in my GPS. So I went out to search and searched right up next to the building. I didn't find it and posted a DNF. The CO sends me a message and ask "Did you search inside or outside the building?"

AAAGGGGHHH. . . No where on the cache page does it state the cache is inside a building. It is a puzzle though but I thought solving the puzzle was to get the coords and once I had those I was done with the puzzle portion.

It does state the cache is not available 24/7 but that is not the same thing as "inside a building" and I assumed it was like park hours (dawn-dusk).

Somewhere on the cache page the CO stated "for reference only" and that was the clue its inside. I suppose at the Reference desk or section.

[+lamoracke]

have done like 20 library caches. Done them as traditionals, multis, and puzzles. I would be annoyed as a cacher to have a cache in a library that I could not enter, it should allow anyone in to be a valid cache in my book.

[+redsox_mark]

The only cache I've found inside a library had the hours posted on the cache page. It was a puzzle cache, and it didn't say it was a library. I think in a case like this it is best to include the opening hours.

[+Viajero Perdido]

The library cache in my area is under a big skylight, and any modern GPS will take you right close to GZ.

 

But for pinpoint accuracy, nothing beats the Dewey Decimal Coordinate System.

[+The_Street_Searchers]

I have a cache in a public library in the UK.

 

To meet the guidelines you have to go to point one first using the GPS. This then gives you some more information to go and find the cache in the Library. I have had some fantastic logs - people really like it!

[mtbikernate]

I can't recall ever going to a university library that required an ID just for access. The private university I attended as an undergrad didn't, and neither does the public one I attend for my master's right now. You do need an ID to check out anything, but that's to be expected.

 

I went to the University of Pittsburgh library once just so I could use their electronic scholarly journal access. No trouble getting in there.

[+Chokecherry]

The only one I went to that needed an ID to access was a private one I went to and only after hours.

[+SwineFlew]

 

This very issue has been hashed out in the forums many times. Basically, it comes down to whether the person is able to tell that they are going to end up inside the library prior to pulling out their GPSr. In general, if the library isn't identified, a cache that has coordinates taking someone somewhere outside the library and then clues that lead inside the library and to the cache should be listed (permission issue not withstanding).

 

After an appeal to Groundspeak, I lost, and have to turn the cache into a multi.

I'm pretty sure that all caches inside libraries would have to either be multis or puzzles, since by definition it could not be a traditional.

 

We got one here in my area thats a traditional. Literally In Veneta The GPS doesnt work really well but the hint narrow it down.

[+Ike 13]

I've done at least ten library caches. On a 100 degree day they are a welcome relief. All have been above average and some have been really cool. All have been multis (call number in stage one in the parking lot), puzzles, and one letterbox.