+forthferalz Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 WAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! i DID promise i would only have one of a coin and not get greedy and want every finish when i started collecting but when i was offered all the varieties of the Solvognen one was a special trade i melted and got one of each. so is it KARMA - I am looking at my collection sorting through what to keep what doubles to finally trade off and horror horror the flip has started eating them! even the gold one! OMG - can gold corrode??? but weirdly it was only those coins and then more horror - ack!!! Corrosion spots on a couple of other rare treasured coins that are gold and black nickel and from germany too. Where did they get their flips from? Or is it something else? I would like to put all my coins into inert holders but these were too big and the others too small and of course they seemed fine Advice help tea and sympathy, maniacal laughter - just don't make a geocoin celebrating this. Quote Link to comment
avroair Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 The plating and antiquing can both chip off or corrode. A good example is the Oregon 2003 or California 2004 that show real signs of wear and tear... coins made before 2005 especially show the effects cause they are older and the techniques sucked. Quote Link to comment
+forthferalz Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) hi ya, so maybe they should have gone travelling after all right? but no wear and tear - they sat looking cute in my tea chest in a nice mahogany cabinet, one time they came out of their little packets to get their photos taken handled with gloves (Greeenish laughs at me for those) I think it is mostly the plasticizer in the flips. the others were 2006 coins and it is in the pits of the gritty. Was hoping wrapping them in foil would stall things until i can find some display big enough to seal them in. or would leaving them out in the air be better? Putting a coat of clear sealer on? PS anyone else lost a solvognen to corrosion? Edited February 1, 2010 by forthferalz Quote Link to comment
haysonics Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) I assume the flips are made of non-stabilised PVC and you are suffering from PVC damage/rot. This is a common problem with vintage coin folders as well and is widely discussed in the "traditional" coin forums. I know that the "polished metal" coating on geocoins are thin and you should be careful BUT id suggest breathing on them and then wiping with a soft cloth of the type used for cleaning reading glasses and see what happens. This works for me but then I haven't suffered PVC corrosion. If that doesn't work you would have to look at a solvent like acetone. This can be risky even though that solvent is not an acid. Keep acetone away from hard enamels (enamels not covered with epoxy). Acetone wont react with epoxy so you can use it on soft enamels (translucent colours are covered with epoxy). Apply with a soft cloth, then lightly rub, then rinse the coin in non-clorinated water, then pat dry. Good luck ! Edited February 2, 2010 by haysonics Quote Link to comment
+Mauison Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 The plating and antiquing can both chip off or corrode. A good example is the Oregon 2003 or California 2004 that show real signs of wear and tear... coins made before 2005 especially show the effects cause they are older and the techniques sucked. Here's an old thread that I keep bookmarked because I refer to it every now and then when I want to clean my older Oregon and Pennsylvania coins. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=109783 I've used the flour, salt, and vinegar mixture to good results. But of course, after a year or so, the coins become tarnished again because they're not in an air tight container. And I don't mean Air-Tite containers because I've had coins in those tarnish also. Quote Link to comment
haysonics Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) I've used the flour, salt, and vinegar mixture to good results. But of course, after a year or so, the coins become tarnished again because they're not in an air tight container. And I don't mean Air-Tite containers because I've had coins in those tarnish also. Rinse your coins in non-clorinated water after you have done that, then pat dry. It could be residue from your cleaning solution thats made them tarnish OR the salt in the solution has abrasively damaged the coins coating OR the metal is unstable. Unstable polished metal coatings (easy to tarnish) are used by some of our friends in China. Its the price we pay for NOT using expensive metal coatings like silver. This is especially evident on geocoins with "proof like" finishes. Edited February 2, 2010 by haysonics Quote Link to comment
+slowdownracer Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Search for and buy what are called "non-plasticized" flips. Most coins arrive in the softer "plasticized" PVC flips, which can cause the coins to corrode. The "non-plastcized" flips are stiffer. I put my coins in them, then put my coins into album pages made with "plasticized" PVC, but only the flip comes in contact with the coin. I haven't had one corrode yet. Quote Link to comment
Odyssey Voyager Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Search for and buy what are called "non-plasticized" flips. I haven't had one corrode yet. good advice. if in doubt, i would also suggest a small coin envelope or cloth pouch. not quite as practical, but it will protect your geocoins. Quote Link to comment
ELTADA Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I have heard that "mylar" flips are archival quality and are better than the soft plastic flips you get when you buy the coin. I went to my local collectibles supply store and got 100 for $10 or so. They are stiffer plastic and not as nice as the soft ones but if they keep them from tarnishing... Sorry to hear of your storage woes forthferalz... Quote Link to comment
+forthferalz Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 Here's an old thread that I keep bookmarked because I refer to it every now and then when I want to clean my older Oregon and Pennsylvania coins. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=109783 I've used the flour, salt, and vinegar mixture to good results. But of course, after a year or so, the coins become tarnished again because they're not in an air tight container. And I don't mean Air-Tite containers because I've had coins in those tarnish also. thx does that work ok on plated coins or would it take the copper plating off? Quote Link to comment
+Droo Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 The plating and antiquing can both chip off or corrode. A good example is the Oregon 2003 or California 2004 that show real signs of wear and tear... coins made before 2005 especially show the effects cause they are older and the techniques sucked. Here's an old thread that I keep bookmarked because I refer to it every now and then when I want to clean my older Oregon and Pennsylvania coins. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=109783 I've used the flour, salt, and vinegar mixture to good results. But of course, after a year or so, the coins become tarnished again because they're not in an air tight container. And I don't mean Air-Tite containers because I've had coins in those tarnish also. I can vouch for Ketchup for pennies but I'm a bit skeptical about flour, salt and vinegar mix - flour as a thickener- check, vinegar as a degreaser - fine, and salt ....... - for taste? Quote Link to comment
+Mauison Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Here's an old thread that I keep bookmarked because I refer to it every now and then when I want to clean my older Oregon and Pennsylvania coins. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=109783 I've used the flour, salt, and vinegar mixture to good results. But of course, after a year or so, the coins become tarnished again because they're not in an air tight container. And I don't mean Air-Tite containers because I've had coins in those tarnish also. thx does that work ok on plated coins or would it take the copper plating off? I've only used it on the older geocoins, like the Oregon 2003 and 2004, Pennsylvnia 2004, Calgary, etc. They seem to be the only ones of mine that tarnish. Most of the original tarnish came from fingerprint oil, as I could see the pattern on the coin. So if you have soft cotton gloves to handle your coins, that would be good. Quote Link to comment
+Mauison Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 The plating and antiquing can both chip off or corrode. A good example is the Oregon 2003 or California 2004 that show real signs of wear and tear... coins made before 2005 especially show the effects cause they are older and the techniques sucked. Here's an old thread that I keep bookmarked because I refer to it every now and then when I want to clean my older Oregon and Pennsylvania coins. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=109783 I've used the flour, salt, and vinegar mixture to good results. But of course, after a year or so, the coins become tarnished again because they're not in an air tight container. And I don't mean Air-Tite containers because I've had coins in those tarnish also. I can vouch for Ketchup for pennies but I'm a bit skeptical about flour, salt and vinegar mix - flour as a thickener- check, vinegar as a degreaser - fine, and salt ....... - for taste? I have no idea what the salt's for. =) I can also vouch for ketchup to clean pre-smashed pennies and post-smashed pennies. Quote Link to comment
+Gitchee-Gummee Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Ketchup and vinegar you know, are acid. Is best to neutralize after the cleaning, not just rinse, but neutralize the acid. In time, just as fingerprints do, that acid continues to do its' thing. In the end, nothing really helps true silver or copper (for any great period of time). Real gold however, should not tarnish unless you keep it around some nasty stuff! Quote Link to comment
+forthferalz Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 I have heard that "mylar" flips are archival quality and are better than the soft plastic flips you get when you buy the coin. I went to my local collectibles supply store and got 100 for $10 or so. They are stiffer plastic and not as nice as the soft ones but if they keep them from tarnishing... Sorry to hear of your storage woes forthferalz... thx POLL: "would you rather see your coins packed in mylar?" y/n/don't mind Quote Link to comment
+CyberChemist Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 The salt is probably added as a gentle abrasive. Quote Link to comment
Odyssey Voyager Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) Ketchup and vinegar you know, are acid. Is best to neutralize after the cleaning, not just rinse, but neutralize the acid. In time, just as fingerprints do, that acid continues to do its' thing. yes, these "mild acids" should do a good job of cleaning metal geocoins, although i would be careful about adding any abrasives unless you have used them before with good results, or have some less valuable coins to try them on. also, as previously stated, an acid will continue to corrode until it is neutralized. so when using vinegar, tabasco, ketchup, or any other "mild acid" on metal, a "base" such as a pasty baking soda mix applied to coin is a good idea, followed by dish soap washing, rinsing, and then a very thorough drying, being careful not to touch the metal with your bare fingers, as this body moisture will also act as a very mild corrosive acid over time. Edited February 2, 2010 by Odyssey Voyager Quote Link to comment
avroair Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 The plating and antiquing can both chip off or corrode. A good example is the Oregon 2003 or California 2004 that show real signs of wear and tear... coins made before 2005 especially show the effects cause they are older and the techniques sucked. Here's an old thread that I keep bookmarked because I refer to it every now and then when I want to clean my older Oregon and Pennsylvania coins. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=109783 I've used the flour, salt, and vinegar mixture to good results. But of course, after a year or so, the coins become tarnished again because they're not in an air tight container. And I don't mean Air-Tite containers because I've had coins in those tarnish also. I can vouch for Ketchup for pennies but I'm a bit skeptical about flour, salt and vinegar mix - flour as a thickener- check, vinegar as a degreaser - fine, and salt ....... - for taste? I have no idea what the salt's for. =) I can also vouch for ketchup to clean pre-smashed pennies and post-smashed pennies. Mine seem to tarnish every year whether I keep them in sunlight or dark, airtight or not, doesn't seem to matter... the oregon 2003 and california 2004 are the worst at that! Quote Link to comment
+welch Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 The plating and antiquing can both chip off or corrode. A good example is the Oregon 2003 or California 2004 that show real signs of wear and tear... coins made before 2005 especially show the effects cause they are older and the techniques sucked. So if a coin is a solid metal, no platings etc it will tarnish but shouldn't chip? Just wondering what some of the early USA geocoins would looke like now. Quote Link to comment
+forthferalz Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 (edited) So if a coin is a solid metal, no platings etc it will tarnish but shouldn't chip? Just wondering what some of the early USA geocoins would looke like now. They look "interesting". On a solid bronze coin though the patina is actually very charming imho - battle scars! sets them apart from their wimpy stay at home friends. i've polished some travellers up when the tarnish was yuk but just lightly. I have completely burnt coin - all the fancy layers stripped away by a bushfire which is still doing the rounds. It was in an airtite btw I'm not sure about the chipping - depends on if they are harder than the usual base metal blanks of the plated ones. those will chip all right! You can see dents in the base metal some of them from handling when they were blanks as the plating goes over the top. Particularly the rim of the gold coins is susceptible to nicks in the mail if you just use those thin plastic liners - mints please note! use the proper envelopes. The nickel plating is harder. So my guess is they are not hardened stainless steel and they will still chip unintentionallly. eg. if dropped on concrete mystery coin+plastic flip+event + kid = ding Guess who also found this out the hardway? But don't let that put anyone off sending me the stuff =========================================== "I can vouch for Ketchup for pennies but I'm a bit skeptical about flour, salt and vinegar mix - flour as a thickener- check, vinegar as a degreaser - fine, and salt ....... - for taste? " haha -we tested the aussie coins which came in a new satin finish before sending them off for saliva resistance because my kid said they looked like a lolly - happy to report they are stable and also to big to choke a 14 yo. Edited February 3, 2010 by forthferalz Quote Link to comment
+Eartha Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I've always believed that salt is a corrosive. If road salt can eat my car, imagine what it can do for a coin? I found this site: Caring for coins If these coins were real money, the best advice is to NOT clean them. If they were real money, and you cleaned them with ketchup, you could render them worthless by doing so. Ketchup takes off metal. Here are some comments on cleaning coins. Granted, these aren't real money, but they are real collectible coins, are they not? Quote Link to comment
haysonics Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) Great links Eartha and you made some great points. Tarnish and Dirt (both called Toning) can be attractive and removing attractive toning will decrease a "real" coin's value however unattractive toning is often removed so as to increase a coin's value and many collectors do this (whether they admit it or not). A significant proportion of a coin's value comes from the grade it is given and uncovering details will give the coin a higher grade (as long as those details are in good condition). Attractiveness is subjective but the majority of collectors usually agree when asked if a particular coin's toning looks good. If so, then it is better to leave the toning on (even if it is obscuring the details). There is also strong support for "conservation" of coins. This is where you clean a coin so as to remove a corrosive element (not general dirt or tarnish) so as to protect the coin from further damage. PVC damage is a good example that justifies cleaning as it will further damage a coin if left on. If you do choose to clean a coin, there is one thing that almost everyone agrees on. Do not use abrasive elements unless absolutely necessary for conservation (this includes acids). It is due to the use of abrasive elements and also the removal of valuable attractive toning that the general advice not to clean coins is given. Edited February 4, 2010 by haysonics Quote Link to comment
+forthferalz Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) hi everyone - thanks haysonics yes this was not 'toning' this was ( is?!) eating my coins - i mean in 2000 years time a collector might not care but right now it was not a good look. In fact at first i thought it was fungus * and apparently the toning is actually protective layer of stable oxidised metal so it won't eat more of the coin but if you clean it off more oxide and eventually you clean away your coin. SO after reading all the info here i decided against any other corrosives. they cleaned up better than expected with the sunglass cleaner. Then two have been popped in big mylar pinched from the spinning topcoin and sealed into thee aluminium foil packet and into an aritight acrylic chocolate box - I had to eat a whole box of ferro rocher to get this for a defunct cache and it is housing my untrackables now. Happy to report I checked in last night and they looked bright and fine. Keeping the oxygen out is crucial from what i gather to stop corrosion The tea chest is not so tight a lid. i'm not sure it does anything about the flip giving off the acid gas "PVC, it breaks down chemically and hydrochloric acid is released. I think that step is avoided by avoiding heat and moisture like the inside of car+windows. hence the glass cleaner butditching the pvc plastic looks safer. The tarnishable coins still need sealing off from moisture and oxygen. I didin't find what i have read about coincleaning applicable in more than a general way to new geocoins. to salvage a geocoin it sounds like an ultrasonic cleaner might be better. I might take themi nto a jeweller and aask. http://www.brent-krueger.com/howtopvc.html this has lots of little experiments ot keep me and bling boy entertained for a few minutes. PS check this out "With an extremely high resistance to corrosion, rhodium is used to plate steel and brass in order to prevent corrosion from sea water and other elements. Such coatings must be extremely thin and used only when the cost is justified (rhodium sells for about five to six times that of palladium)." I think the tranquility came in a 'light rhodium' ANyone verify that?. * the weather has been humid and warm and worse we had another OMG! episode when water leaked into the wall cavity behind geobling boy's cupboard and there was an inch thicklayer of black mildew along the inside ewwww...... he's been evactuated to the sofa for nearly amonth as it happened before xmas and no builders etc. around to fix it although the plumber fixed it immediately ( who designed a perishable washer to go in a pipe behind the waterproofing?) we had more than the usual number of spores I'm sure everywhere ewwww Edited February 5, 2010 by forthferalz Quote Link to comment
haysonics Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 (edited) ...toning is actually protective layer of stable oxidised metal so it won't eat more of the coin but if you clean it off more oxide and eventually you clean away your coin. Yep, the top layer of a coin is coroding when it is tarnishing but eventually stabilises and protects the underlying layers from oxidisation. Once tarnish is removed the coin has lost some of its top layer. If you continue the tarnish/clean cycle in 100 years you'll have no coin left. The hope is that when a cleaned coin tarnishes 2nd time round it will be more attractive. If so, the cleaning will have been worth doing. I have my fingers crossed for the coins I chose to clean. At the moment they look much better cleaned. Many collectors don't value cleaned coins so I am hoping for better tarnish 2nd time round. PS check this out "With an extremely high resistance to corrosion, rhodium is used to plate steel and brass in order to prevent corrosion from sea water and other elements. Such coatings must be extremely thin and used only when the cost is justified (rhodium sells for about five to six times that of palladium)." I think the tranquility came in a 'light rhodium' ANyone verify that?.. I owned both tranquilities that were done in the rhodium finish. They are called the "Light Rhodium" and "Dark Rhodium". The "Light" and "Dark" bit are references to their colour combos. BUT real rhodium wasn't used alongside the enamels. The coating used just approximated the colour of real rhodium. Castleman can correct me if I am wrong. If I find out he did use real rhodium then I'll be sorry I traded them I kept their counterparts ("Light Gold" and "Dark Gold") Edit: Coin conservation and Tranquilities discussed in the same thread !!! Bless you Edited February 5, 2010 by haysonics Quote Link to comment
+bittsen Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 With money coins, I have used car wax to help stabilize them from tarnish. It worked wonderfully. I wonder if car wax would help geocoins. Quote Link to comment
+forthferalz Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 With money coins, I have used car wax to help stabilize them from tarnish. It worked wonderfully. I wonder if car wax would help geocoins. wow tip - what brand? My guess is if it works on .999 silver or mint copper it will be fine. Do you place them back in the flip? or just display them en plein air? Quote Link to comment
+Gitchee-Gummee Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 With money coins, I have used car wax to help stabilize them from tarnish. It worked wonderfully. I wonder if car wax would help geocoins. wow tip - what brand? My guess is if it works on .999 silver or mint copper it will be fine. Do you place them back in the flip? or just display them en plein air? What corrodes silver is light. That is why was/is used to make b/w photo film. Quote Link to comment
+forthferalz Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 What corrodes silver is light. That is why was/is used to make b/w photo film. not quite applicable to coins unless they are somehow not pure - the silver has to ionise first ie. have moisture and something to react with that will ionise it ( like the acid off the PVC flips! ) It's responsible for it's antibacterial properties too - so i could dunk my silver geocoins into the drinking water when out on the trail to sterilise ? The silver ion clothes washer is a scary thing. Quote Link to comment
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