Thoughts on this terrain 3 cache

[+Opalblade]

I had been very curious about a cache in my area because I had read a log by a local veteran cacher that said, "The cache containers/camo, the swag, the log books and especially the location was absolutely perfect and is a perfect example of what geocaching is all about."

 

The terrain rating was 3 and the cache description said "The cache is about a 12-15 minute hike into the trail, but much quicker if you're on a MTB" and "This is one of our first hides and will require some hiking, light bushwacking and rock scrambling. Please let us know if our Difficulty and Terrain ratings are accurate."

 

It was myself, my friend, and my 3 1/2 yo. He's a very hardy guy and loves climbing, and has done terrain 2 to 3's in the past, so we felt comfortable bringing him along.

 

We walked for a while on the trail, heading towards the cache location, but then we ran into a trail T with neither direction seeming helpful. We assumed this was where the light bushwhacking and rock scrambling was to begin. At first we set off in a straight line to the cache. This led up a hill and down a hill to a 5 foot high overhang over a dry creek bed. Here my friend climbed/slid down but there was no easy way to get down with mini ninja #4 or hand him down to her so I told her I was going to backtrack and find a better way down. I jokingly told her, "Yeah I don't want to die". So I went back down the hill and I found a slightly better way down. Still steep enough that my 3 1/2 yo yelled out dramatically, "Mommy I don't want to die!" (woops). So my friend went over and under fallen trees to get to us and I handed down the 3yo and then I followed. Then up up up up another hill through thick brush. Got to the top and found a trail right next to ground zero

 

It prob took us a good 45 mins to get there. We were sore, scratched up from branches and thorns and very tired but I figured that was the kind of experience the veteran cacher enjoyed So we look around for the cache and were so tired (we'd already been doing a lot of hiking that day) that we barely poked around before looking at the hint.

 

The hint said "go right at any trail intersections. you've gone too far if you've climbed 4 root steps." Come to find out later that you never have to go off the trail, except for the last ten feet up a little slope to get the cache. There was that one T we hit at one point but that was where we thought the bushwhacking was meant to begin as when we hit the T the cache was straight ahead. Believe me, we have already learned the lesson of stay on trails as long as possible but it did have that terrain 3 rating.

 

The cache owners had said they wanted feedback on terrain so I contacted them saying that our experience had been beyond a terrain 3, because we hadn't read the hint. So since they wanted feedback I suggested a little bump up or moving the hint into the cache description.

 

They responded that they weren't going to change it because no one else so far (5 or 6 people/groups before us) had had a rough time, and that it wouldn't have been necessary if we'd parked at the trail head (we did use the coordinates they provided) and read the hint prior to heading out.

 

Disclaimers - I am not upset in any way, it was a positive experience for me. I respect their position and I DEFINITELY respect their thoughts about their terrain rating. They were going higher in terrain rating than they thought it warranted (another point they made), and I agree, given my experiences so far, it could have been a 2 1/2 or maybe even a 2 if they'd wanted.

 

If anyone is wondering, the cache was an ammo box hidden in a large pile of boulders. It had a beautiful log book with space to write a favorite quote. The swag had been switched out too much by the time we got to it to know if there were originally very interesting things. Very pretty area

 

I replied to the cache owners explaining my thoughts a bit more clearly, namely that I completely agreed with their terrain rating assessment, just that I wondered if others coming after us would also not read the hint and have a higher terrain experience. Which led me to ponder the following.

 

Would you consider your cache a certain rating, if the information necessary to create that type of experience is in the hint?

 

Do people usually read the hint before heading out? Are we the only ones trying to save ourselves from seeing spoilers before we've looked around a bit first?

 

Is it common to have access information in the hint?

Edited January 28, 2010 by Opalblade

[+briansnat]

Sounds like it could be rated properly if you choose your route wisely.

 

Putting information on the best route to the cache in the hint is a bad idea. Many geocachers don't read the hint until they get to the cache and are stumped.

Edited January 28, 2010 by briansnat

[knowschad]

Sounds to me like you made the cache a lot harder than it needed to be. If that's true and IF it doesn't continue to happen (something a good cache owner will be keeping an eye on), then the T-rating stands as-is, in my opinion. I've made plenty of caches tougher than they needed to be, but that is generally my own responsibility, not the cache owners. I don't think that you did anything wrong by providing that feedback to the cache owner (in fact, I think you did right!) but I think the response sounded appropriate as well.

[+ngrrfan]

I've had something similar happen to me, the "hint" clarified some specific directions which should have been followed. Since that time I always read the hint when looking at a possible cache to find. It's part of learning how to find things.

[+hydnsek]

Sounds like it could be rated properly if you choose your route wisely.

 

Putting information on the best route to the cache in the hint is a bad idea. Many geocachers don't read the hint until they get to the cache and are stumped.

Agreement.

[hoyshnin]

God created google maps and sattelite images to scope out the hike before starting on it.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Putting information on the best route to the cache in the hint is a bad idea

 

Yes, a hint is to be used after a search has failed, it should provide additional info about the hide.

It's NOT how to get there, or where to park.

 

That said, the terrain rating should absolutely stay at 3. Raising it would cause more dead ahead bushwhacking.

[+SixDogTeam]

I wish I had a nickle for every long arduous hellacous bushwack I've completed only to find myself back on the trail which looped around on me!! It's part of the deal!

[+ngrrfan]

I wish I had a nickle for every long arduous hellacous bushwack I've completed only to find myself back on the trail which looped around on me!! It's part of the deal!

Sure makes coming back out easier tho.

[+Ike 13]

Last weekend I turned a 1.5 Terrain into a 4 by approaching from the wrong way. No information on the page would have helped. Thinking first and walking around the obstacles was the easiest way in. Sometimes the shortest and easiest distance between two points is not a straight line. A proper rating should actually decrease the amount of people taking the crazy bushwacking route because it lets you know that there is an easier route. We've all done it, and probably will do it again. I think it enhances the experience and adds to the fun.

 

To answer your questions

 

1) No the terrain of my hides is how hard I had getting there. Sometimes it may be less or more depending on when and how people approach. I have a tunnel hide that could be a 2 or a 3.5/4 depending on weather and how wet you want to get. I ranked it a 3

 

2) I normally try to avoid the hint until I search for a few minutes.

 

3) I've seen everything from parking information to detailed trail instructions to detailed hide descriptions in the hint. I believe the hint should only contain information to narrow down a search area or some cryptic clue of how the cache is hidden. Parking coords and approach information should be on the page or left off entirely.

[knowschad]

God created google maps and sattelite images to scope out the hike before starting on it.

I'm sure you forgot that there are many different styles of caching. Not all styles have the luxury or obvious neccessity of checking out the maps and sattelite images before setting out.

[+Opalblade]

God created google maps and sattelite images to scope out the hike before starting on it.

 

Did do that but in my area tree cover often obscures trails and elevation changes.

 

I really was not suggesting a terrain rating change, more suggesting the useful info about access be in the description so the terrain rating would be fitting. I'm definitely all for info about access - I enjoy the hobby for the hunt at ground zero, not the hunt FOR ground zero, especially when caching with my kids. No fun running up against a fence or a creek or a cliff. Do enjoy the hike most of the time, as long as I don't get too scratched up

[knowschad]

God created google maps and sattelite images to scope out the hike before starting on it.

Did do that but in my area tree cover often obscures trails and elevation changes.

In that case, have you ever tried the Terrain mode? In the right situations, its great!

[+Opalblade]

God created google maps and sattelite images to scope out the hike before starting on it.

Did do that but in my area tree cover often obscures trails and elevation changes.

In that case, have you ever tried the Terrain mode? In the right situations, its great!

 

Thank you for that tip!!! I sure haven't. Went to look on iPhone and it shows some trails. That'll come in handy .

[+MamaCC]

Wow! I sure am glad/lucky to be able to read such great responses.

 

I am the friend that went with Opalblade to discover the cache she mentions. I agree with what everyone stated and that we (me especially) almost always make cache approaches more difficult then the need to be!! But I am learning and getting better!

 

Thanks again everyone for such great responses. they really do help!

[Skippermark]

MamaCC, you sound like me. I always seem to make them harder than needed. I've bushwhacked 1/2 a mile up hill through thick mountain laurel to a cache, gone through wet, swampy areas, sure there was no other way, only to get there and see a nice, wide trail 25 feet from the cache.