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Arrested in Texas for Geocaching


condor1

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I actually just read the linked in news story with the sweet pic of the bomb squad guy completely wrecking the hide. :lostsignal: I thought this part was particularly interesting:

 

According to police, the Academy incident was the second time in about a year a geochache bundle has caused a bomb scare in Midland, the first coming at the CEED Building.

 

So, one should be able to reasonably assume that the Midland, TX P.D. (and all of it's employees) should have at least a concept of what we do. And, applying some tactical sense (why would someone bomb a light pole?) should have had them asking some questions before the bomb squad got called in. Again, I understand that the threat is real. But, people using these tactics to harm people are looking for the biggest bang for the buck. Knocking down a light pole at Academy is a waste of assets, which for a lot of these guys are not so easy to come by. If indeed permission were granted, there should have been a notice posted, so that everyone in the management chain was on the same page.

 

However, it seems that none of these factors came into play in this instance, which is unfortunate. Like I said above, I thought this was interesting.

 

Later!

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I would LOVE to read the original arrest report. Anybody in the area where this happened want to go down to the police station and get a copy? If there's a fee for making the copy, I'll pay for it. And I have a web site where I can post the pdf.

 

It's been pointed out before in this thread, but it's worth saying again: We've only heard one side of the story, and even that isn't first-hand.

 

Consider this bit from the original post:

 

I again explained about geocaching and after they had determined that it was not a bomb but rather a geocache, they took me back to my car. A few minutes later, they arrested me for Interference with the duties of a public servant.

 

"...they took me back to my car." Followed by "A few minutes later, they arrested me..."

 

Am I the only one that's curious about what happened during those few minutes? "They" wouldn't have taken him back to his car unless they were planning to release him. So what changed "their" mind?

 

Indeed Maybe "The real thing"could get that since he/she seems to have some insight and knows the cacher in question.

Edited by TheHunterSeeker
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There is NEVER a reason to talk to the police.

 

Sure... I will be social and polite as I am with anyone... but once a cop tells me anything I say can and WILL be used against me... time to shut up.

 

I detest blind obedience to "LEO's"

 

Most people use their heads... some use a badge...

There are obvious exceptions to the rule. Relatives and friends, regular contact as part of your job, etc.

 

The time to clam up is when there's an investigation going on. Stopped in your car = investigation. A policeman stops you while you're walking and asks what you were doing in the woods / near the train tracks / under the bridge / in the alley, etc. = investigation. A policeman turns up at your door to "ask a few questions" = investigation.

 

is a good primer on how to handle such situations. I strongly recommend watching it, even if you're a law-abiding citizen. Laws are complex and we don't always know when we can get into trouble. That's what this thread is all about. Some fellow is engaged in perfectly harmless activity and winds up charged with a crime.

 

And when you hear the words "anything you say can and will be used against you", it's past time to shut up. That's the Miranda warning. You get told that after being arrested. Everything in the warning applies before arrest as well. Watch the video.

 

I made it about 2 minutes into the video. Cop lights them up, they all panic and the first thing out of one of actor's mouth is, "Is everything put away", suggesting that they have something to hide from the police officer.

 

I DON'T have anything to hide. I have no fear from the police because I am doing nothing wrong. If I am truly doing nothing wrong, how can anything I say incriminate me? I have had four encounters with the police while Geocaching. Three were alongside the highway and the officers were checking if I needed assistance. I explained my actions and all three officers thought that it was fascinating and simply asked me to be safe while entering and exiting the highway. Each encounter was over and done with in less than three minutes. How would these encounters have progressed if the first words out of my mouth were "I have the right to remain silent"? The fourth encounter did not go that smoothly, but the fact that I was able to eventually explain our actions, made it a non-incident.

 

I understand your cautions. If I'm geocaching and they ask me if I killed the guy around the corner, I'm saying "No, get me a lawyer if you think I did". If they ask me if I stuck a film can under a light pole, I'll tell them that I placed it exactly where I found it. :ph34r:

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I made it about 2 minutes into the video. Cop lights them up, they all panic and the first thing out of one of actor's mouth is, "Is everything put away", suggesting that they have something to hide from the police officer.

 

I DON'T have anything to hide. I have no fear from the police because I am doing nothing wrong. If I am truly doing nothing wrong, how can anything I say incriminate me? I have had four encounters with the police while Geocaching. Three were alongside the highway and the officers were checking if I needed assistance. I explained my actions and all three officers thought that it was fascinating and simply asked me to be safe while entering and exiting the highway. Each encounter was over and done with in less than three minutes. How would these encounters have progressed if the first words out of my mouth were "I have the right to remain silent"? The fourth encounter did not go that smoothly, but the fact that I was able to eventually explain our actions, made it a non-incident.

 

I understand your cautions. If I'm geocaching and they ask me if I killed the guy around the corner, I'm saying "No, get me a lawyer if you think I did". If they ask me if I stuck a film can under a light pole, I'll tell them that I placed it exactly where I found it. :ph34r:

Now, imagine if the officer didn't find geocaching fascinating and, instead, used the information you provided (you weren't pulled over for a valid reason) to write you a ticket.

I'm not saying it would happen but it could.

 

I've seen lots of tickets written for convenience rather than an actual offense. Just sayin.

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There are obvious exceptions to the rule. Relatives and friends, regular contact as part of your job, etc.

 

The time to clam up is when there's an investigation going on. Stopped in your car = investigation. A policeman stops you while you're walking and asks what you were doing in the woods / near the train tracks / under the bridge / in the alley, etc. = investigation. A policeman turns up at your door to "ask a few questions" = investigation.

 

is a good primer on how to handle such situations. I strongly recommend watching it, even if you're a law-abiding citizen. Laws are complex and we don't always know when we can get into trouble. That's what this thread is all about. Some fellow is engaged in perfectly harmless activity and winds up charged with a crime.

 

And when you hear the words "anything you say can and will be used against you", it's past time to shut up. That's the Miranda warning. You get told that after being arrested. Everything in the warning applies before arrest as well. Watch the video.

 

I watched the video. It was really clear that the narrator was offering ways to get away with illegal behavior (with the exception of the kid and the paint, which was questionable).

 

The first scenario was a car with drugs being used (or so it appeared by the munchies references) and the police DID find drugs during the search.

 

The third one was funny because they found about a pound of pot. So it was definately illegal.

 

The innocent recap seemed to lean much less towards illegal activity.

 

No matter what, there was an obvious slant towards how to get away with illegal activity. It wasn't about how to protect yourself while being a law abiding citizen. If you can get past the slant, there may have been a few good messages in there. It did give the message of "if you are doing something wrong, here is how you hide it" and not "If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide". I think I will take the latter path and not the former.

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That's the Miranda warning. You get told that after being arrested.

You get read Miranda when you are being detained and questioned regarding specifics of a crime. This can happen before handcuffs, after handcuffs or not at all. Contrary to what you see on Law & Order, there is no requirement to read Miranda just because you arrest someone.

I've never seen Law & Order. Is it any good?

 

Back on topic... I'm familiar with the ins and outs of custodial detention. I was just simplifying it. I didn't want to bog down my post with details regarding detention and rules of evidence. My point was that one's constitutional rights don't suddenly kick in when they hear those words.

 

I merely wanted to press home my message: watch the video. Watch it all. It could keep you from being the next Caleb Osborn.

 

Okay,

this time I made it until the cop pulled the kids out of the car, and then let whole group circle directly behind him as he climbed into the car. (Think Aces and Eights)

 

"This car smells like Bob Marley's butt". That's grounds for dismissal right there. I'm sure that there is a message in this 45 min video, but I'm afraid that I can't stomach the bad acting and direction long enough to get to it.

 

BTW, we are brought back to the fact that these subject examples were actually doing something wrong. and remaining silent would obviously be in their best interest. If I were in that situation, I just may exercise my rights, as well. On the other hand, if I was engaged in an activity that may look suspicious, (Geocaching), and was asked about it by an LEO as a part of a basic field interview, I would be more than happy to explain my activities. In fact, I would extend my conservation to local eating establishments and even where I (as a local delivery truck driver), have seen unsafe or unlawful activities.

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There are obvious exceptions to the rule. Relatives and friends, regular contact as part of your job, etc.

 

The time to clam up is when there's an investigation going on. Stopped in your car = investigation. A policeman stops you while you're walking and asks what you were doing in the woods / near the train tracks / under the bridge / in the alley, etc. = investigation. A policeman turns up at your door to "ask a few questions" = investigation.

 

is a good primer on how to handle such situations. I strongly recommend watching it, even if you're a law-abiding citizen. Laws are complex and we don't always know when we can get into trouble. That's what this thread is all about. Some fellow is engaged in perfectly harmless activity and winds up charged with a crime.

 

And when you hear the words "anything you say can and will be used against you", it's past time to shut up. That's the Miranda warning. You get told that after being arrested. Everything in the warning applies before arrest as well. Watch the video.

 

I watched the video. It was really clear that the narrator was offering ways to get away with illegal behavior (with the exception of the kid and the paint, which was questionable).

 

The first scenario was a car with drugs being used (or so it appeared by the munchies references) and the police DID find drugs during the search.

 

The third one was funny because they found about a pound of pot. So it was definately illegal.

 

The innocent recap seemed to lean much less towards illegal activity.

 

No matter what, there was an obvious slant towards how to get away with illegal activity. It wasn't about how to protect yourself while being a law abiding citizen. If you can get past the slant, there may have been a few good messages in there. It did give the message of "if you are doing something wrong, here is how you hide it" and not "If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide". I think I will take the latter path and not the former.

 

OK... that video was stupid... (but Valerie was kinda hot)

 

No one is arguing that if you are doing nothing wrong then you should be honest... But once questions start getting asked that you don't like.... shut up.

 

Here is a much better video..... clicky

Edited by brslk
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A serious pain in the rear, to be sure.

 

If anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area ever has this problem, I'll take their case for free.

:ph34r:

 

Would you come down to LA?

I'm about four days behind on the forum, but this seems to be the hot topic.

 

We have only heard the prosecution, not the defense, but if I were on the jury, Midland would be hurting. In fact, If I were the plaintiff, they would be making my next thirty house payments.

 

I'm not sure what the big deal is anyway. Midland got to practice with all that high tech stuff they got from Homeland Security. "Oh, we're not supposed to shut down half the city. Sorry Chief, my Bad, let's explain it by throwing an "Obstruction" charge on poor Joe Geocacher".

 

After reading almost 200 opinions on the subject, I'm still stuck with my very first reaction, "sue the bastards", and I'm actually an active part of a group to reduce frivolous lawsuits in our nation.

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I made it about 2 minutes into the video. Cop lights them up, they all panic and the first thing out of one of actor's mouth is, "Is everything put away", suggesting that they have something to hide from the police officer.

 

I DON'T have anything to hide. I have no fear from the police because I am doing nothing wrong. If I am truly doing nothing wrong, how can anything I say incriminate me? I have had four encounters with the police while Geocaching. Three were alongside the highway and the officers were checking if I needed assistance. I explained my actions and all three officers thought that it was fascinating and simply asked me to be safe while entering and exiting the highway. Each encounter was over and done with in less than three minutes. How would these encounters have progressed if the first words out of my mouth were "I have the right to remain silent"? The fourth encounter did not go that smoothly, but the fact that I was able to eventually explain our actions, made it a non-incident.

 

I understand your cautions. If I'm geocaching and they ask me if I killed the guy around the corner, I'm saying "No, get me a lawyer if you think I did". If they ask me if I stuck a film can under a light pole, I'll tell them that I placed it exactly where I found it. :ph34r:

Now, imagine if the officer didn't find geocaching fascinating and, instead, used the information you provided (you weren't pulled over for a valid reason) to write you a ticket.

I'm not saying it would happen but it could.

 

I've seen lots of tickets written for convenience rather than an actual offense. Just sayin.

 

Ticket for what?

 

If I'm stopped and I am legally parked, then what is he/she writing a ticket for? I'll, take a geocoded photo and watch them try to fight it. BTW, if I were to stop my car in "No Parking" zones, I'd probably have 700 more finds. It is a big local issue here, but I simply pass them on by.

I haven't had a ticket inr over thirty years. Amazing what happens when you follow the rules.

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OK... that video was stupid... (but Valerie was kinda hot)

 

No one is arguing that if you are doing nothing wrong then you should be honest... But once questions start getting asked that you don't like.... shut up.

 

Here is a much better video..... clicky

 

Once again, it was a lecture of what to do if you are guilty of a crime. There was no instance where someone who wasn't guilty went to jail for talking to a police officer except the two retarded guys.

 

48 minutes of my life I will never get back.

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Ticket for what?

 

If I'm stopped and I am legally parked, then what is he/she writing a ticket for? I'll, take a geocoded photo and watch them try to fight it. BTW, if I were to stop my car in "No Parking" zones, I'd probably have 700 more finds. It is a big local issue here, but I simply pass them on by.

I haven't had a ticket inr over thirty years. Amazing what happens when you follow the rules.

 

Oh, I thought you were implying that you would pull over for a guardrail cache like I would.

 

:ph34r:

 

My bad.

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Here is a much better video..... clicky
THAT is the one that I had assumed you had linked to originally. Its been quite some time since I've watched it, but if memory serves me right, this one is a pretty good video and does a good job of explaining how a totally innocent person can entrap themselves without realizing it.
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OK... that video was stupid... (but Valerie was kinda hot)

 

No one is arguing that if you are doing nothing wrong then you should be honest... But once questions start getting asked that you don't like.... shut up.

 

Here is a much better video..... clicky

 

Once again, it was a lecture of what to do if you are guilty of a crime. There was no instance where someone who wasn't guilty went to jail for talking to a police officer except the two retarded guys.

 

48 minutes of my life I will never get back.

 

Where did you see anyone convicted of being guilty of a crime on the link I linked?

 

Do you not understand innocent people go to jail? for being coerced into confessions?

 

innocent people do go to jail because they talk to cops...

 

btw.. retarded... no... not cool....

 

I suppose some people just hate lawyers... until they need them... that's why they charge them so much...

 

meh.. some cops are crooked.. some lawyers are also...

 

lets just say I would rather have a crooked lawyer on my side...

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Here is a much better video..... clicky
THAT is the one that I had assumed you had linked to originally. Its been quite some time since I've watched it, but if memory serves me right, this one is a pretty good video and does a good job of explaining how a totally innocent person can entrap themselves without realizing it.

 

Thank you friend of Chad! I was not the one that posted the other link.

 

I am also not anti-cop.

 

I walk the line... like Mr. Cash...

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Once again, it was a lecture of what to do if you are guilty of a crime. There was no instance where someone who wasn't guilty went to jail for talking to a police officer except the two retarded guys.

 

48 minutes of my life I will never get back.

 

Where did you see anyone convicted of being guilty of a crime on the link I linked?

There were two men, both were said to have plead guilty, both were said to have been retarded. Look at 12:10 minutes

 

Do you not understand innocent people go to jail? for being coerced into confessions?

Yes, I understand that people do go to jail who were not necessarily guilty of the crime for which they were convicted. They get coerced into pleading guilty to avoid being found guilty of a more severe crime. It doesn't mean they are innocent though. There are hardly any TRUELY innocent people in jail

 

innocent people do go to jail because they talk to cops...

Not as true as you want it to be. Though it can (and has) happen, people who are not guilty of what they are charged with, go to jail. Innocent people, almost never.

 

btw.. retarded... no... not cool....

The video said they were retarded. Not my words, the video, again refer to 12:10+

 

I suppose some people just hate lawyers... until they need them... that's why they charge them so much...

People who hate lawyers have had dealings with lawyers. You aren't born hating them. Lawyers charge so much because they can

 

meh.. some cops are crooked.. some lawyers are also...

True, on both counts. Even the officer in the video said some officers were dishonest

 

lets just say I would rather have a crooked lawyer on my side...

Yeah, true but I would also rather have an honest cop.

Edited by bittsen
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Once again, it was a lecture of what to do if you are guilty of a crime. There was no instance where someone who wasn't guilty went to jail for talking to a police officer except the two retarded guys.

 

48 minutes of my life I will never get back.

 

Where did you see anyone convicted of being guilty of a crime on the link I linked?

There were two men, both were said to have plead guilty, both were said to have been retarded. Look at 12:10 minutes

 

Do you not understand innocent people go to jail? for being coerced into confessions?

Yes, I understand that people do go to jail who were not necessarily guilty of the crime for which they were convicted. They get coerced into pleading guilty to avoid being found guilty of a more severe crime. It doesn't mean they are innocent though. There are hardly any TRUELY innocent people in jail

 

innocent people do go to jail because they talk to cops...

Not as true as you want it to be. Though it can (and has) happen, people who are not guilty of what they are charged with, go to jail. Innocent people, almost never.

 

btw.. retarded... no... not cool....

The video said they were retarded. Not my words, the video, again refer to 12:10+

 

I suppose some people just hate lawyers... until they need them... that's why they charge them so much...

People who hate lawyers have had dealings with lawyers. You aren't born hating them. Lawyers charge so much because they can

 

meh.. some cops are crooked.. some lawyers are also...

True, on both counts. Even the officer in the video said some officers were dishonest

 

lets just say I would rather have a crooked lawyer on my side...

Yeah, true but I would also rather have an honest cop.

 

too tired to argue... I may come back to this at a later date...

 

I must say though.. well thought out response..

 

well presented.. color change and all...

 

sentence for sentence reply... good...

 

I bow to you until I reply...

Edited by brslk
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The system worked just as it's suppoed to. The allegation was made, the potential suspect was detained, the facts were surveyed, and a determination as to further action was made. In this case, it was to go no further.

 

No the system did not work as it should. If it had worked the overzealous cop would be busted off the street on suspension at a minimum, or out of job. The bogus "Interference with the duties of a public servant" charge is abuse under color of authority. Cops are public servants they should suffer consequences for actions like this.

You are coming to a conclusion after hearing only one side of the story. Why is it that we so often assume that the cop is overzealous based on hearing one side. By the way, I'm not a cop, but I'm sure happy that there are people that chose to do that really difficult job.

 

OldA'sFan

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Man we have been nailed 3 times by the popo for geocaching. We say hi and act civil and answer questions and explain geocaching in a easy to understand way like We use satellites to hunt got tupperware in the woods and in town. We show the officer our nice fancy GPSr thingy and show him the cache we were just at.

 

Don't act like your up to no good and be polite and honest and just explain what you are doing so someone who doesn't do it could understand it.

 

My wife likes to use the "Hi-tech easter egg hunt" analogy. They laugh and we all go about our business.

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Like I said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You have said nothing that is intelligent. please be quiet.

Wasn't he one of the folks who opined that, until both sides were presented, everything was speculative? Sounded pretty inteligent to me. (of course, I've been called dumber than a bag of hammers, so what do I know?) Perhaps if he'd included some sort of anti-LEO rant he would've scored higher on your personal forum IQ test?

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I didn't read all the replies, but I am obviously a cacher and I am also a law enforcement officer in S Florida as well. I can tell you from 1st hand experience, only a handful of people in my agency know what geocaching is. I've educated many more since being here, but it's really not that well known of an activity as I think some of us like to think it is. Toting a gun and badge on all my caching adventures I have no worries of having any negative experiences like the OP did, but I have contacted several cache owners with legal concerns I have seen with their cache placements from a LEO perspective and all have been very thankful and taken appropriate actions to fix them.

 

As far as what happened to the OP, there are always 2 sides of the story, we are getting 1. If it really went down as stated, then I seriously think the cop made a huge mistake and was WAY too quick to jump the gun. Just my 2 cents.

 

As a side note, I had the pleasure to make good friends with a few fellow LEO cachers this past year who were brought into our hobby by running across a few cachers while on duty. You may be surprised how many of us get hooked after learning about the sport during an encounter.

Edited by Gregg 00SS
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I have been stopped by Law Enforcement officials 4 times. I have printed up business cards with the Geocaching Website and a brief description of what Geocaching is. Each time I have had no problems. The officers were satisfied as I did not try to make any excuses and told them straight up what I was doing. I even found the cache and showed it to them one time.

 

I have had several encounters with police while caching, however, I too ALWAYS carry a couple of brochures and cards with me. The times that I have been "stopped" I immediately inform them that I am geocaching and that I have a brochure that explains it fully (NEVER reach in your pocket for one until you say that you are reaching for it!) I also have a geocaching.com 3"x3" sticker on my windshield and a geocaching.com licence plate frame on the back that has helped.

 

Due to this foresight, the worst I have been through is bad jokes, "geocaching? Well if there's cash, I can have 20 officers here in less than 5 minutes to look for it." (Tip: smile and laugh). I have even had one officer stop me that was a geocacher and gave me a tip on how to find it.

 

My biggest tips would be: Don't have attitude, say you are geocaching and offer a card or brochure to explain. There are quite a few websites (ie: www.geocacher-u.com) where you can print cards & brochures.

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