Comparing Cache Logs to Online Logs

[oakenwood]

Do you do it? How often?

 

How do you get it done? Do you carry the log home for a day? If so, do you temporarily disable the cache? Do you do it at the cache site with a smart phone or a copy of the cache page on a laptop?

 

What do you look for? How do you resolve discrepancies?

 

I've never done it, so I could use some hints. I'm thinking about doing it during my annual cache inspection.

[+bittsen]

Do you do it? How often?

 

How do you get it done? Do you carry the log home for a day? If so, do you temporarily disable the cache? Do you do it at the cache site with a smart phone or a copy of the cache page on a laptop?

 

What do you look for? How do you resolve discrepancies?

 

I've never done it, so I could use some hints. I'm thinking about doing it during my annual cache inspection.

 

You can do it many ways.

Take the log home and replace it with a temporary log while it's gone. Disable the cache and take the whole cache home to spiffy it up. Carry a netbook or webphone to the cache location. Take a picture of the log if its a small one. Bring a sheet with all the finders names to the cache site and compare there.

 

There might be a couple other ways.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Do you do it? How often?

 

One time I checked a log for either a sig or the word "woof" to correspond to a log on a cache of mine. There had been a thread in our local forum about an arm-chair logger logging a weird assortment of caches with "woof".

Probably no one would have noticed, but for some reason that person logged a local legend of an all day deep swamp multi-cache; in August, with high water levels. Totally unbelievable.

 

I've never check a log again. Probably wouldn't have bothered that time, but I was close to that ammo can anyway, and figured I might check it while I was in the area. (It was the most depressing example of swag running down I'd ever seen - I know how it started, and when I opened it, it was literally full of junk, loose broken crayons, bits of chalk, damaged plastic McToys. Loose Q-tips! One lone nice item, left by TheHobos - bless 'em)(but that's a different topic).

[+scrapes]

Do you do it? How often?

 

One time I checked a log for either a sig or the word "woof" to correspond to a log on a cache of mine. There had been a thread in our local forum about an arm-chair logger logging a weird assortment of caches with "woof".

Probably no one would have noticed, but for some reason that person logged a local legend of an all day deep swamp multi-cache; in August, with high water levels. Totally unbelievable.

 

I've never check a log again. Probably wouldn't have bothered that time, but I was close to that ammo can anyway, and figured I might check it while I was in the area. (It was the most depressing example of swag running down I'd ever seen - I know how it started, and when I opened it, it was literally full of junk, loose broken crayons, bits of chalk, damaged plastic McToys. Loose Q-tips! One lone nice item, left by TheHobos - bless 'em)(but that's a different topic).

 

Brings a question up I've wondered about, thanks for the opening. Some of the caches are loaded with junk as you described, do you guys ever clean up the caches? No one would know and you would be leaving a better cache. Or trade an item and take the junk out?

 

Guys=just a generic term I've always used not to exclude the ladies in the group.

[Clan Riffster]

Do you do it?

Nope. Never have. If I ever get that anal, my wife has threatened to shoot me in the foot.

[+Indotguy]

I do occasional inspections of my caches but have never physically removed a field log to cross check against the online. People actually do this? Wow. I presume if you find discrepancies you delete the finds? Must be a lot of geo-cheaters in your neck(s) of the woods.

[+Rich the Bushwhacker]

I've done it once. I even came up with name for it, GeoAuditing. You combine the neccessary task of replacing a log book and add the fun of an audit, - GeoAuditing.

 

Actually, I was curious about who was logging my cache and what they wrote in the paper log. I found about 10% of the logs in the book never logged it on the Geocaching website and everyone who logged online signed the paper log.

[GermanSailor]

Do you do it? How often?

No.

Never.

 

Yesterday at an event we had this topic. Seems nobody compares online with paper logs.

Don't forget: It's just a hobby and there is no harm in "cheat-logs".

 

GermanSailor

[+briansnat]

Never have. On a few occasions I've gone out to check the log book when I suspected a phony find (I've yet to be wrong), but taking the book home and doing a log by log comparison, nope.

[GOF and Bacall]

If I ever do it wil be because I suspect something. Even then it would have to be something along the lines of someone that appears to be bulk logging caches in several areas at the same time.

 

What I do like to do is read the log entries while I'm out on my maintenance runs.

[+narcissa]

 

Yesterday at an event we had this topic. Seems nobody compares online with paper logs.

Don't forget: It's just a hobby and there is no harm in "cheat-logs".

 

 

I don't advocate meticulous cache auditing without cause, but as a cache owner, you do have a responsibility to investigate obviously fraudulent logs.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

I only did it once, when someone who started caching after me was racking up 150+ caches on weekends. Their sig was on the lists, so I was happy.

[Mr.Yuck]

Do you do it? How often?

 

How do you get it done? Do you carry the log home for a day? If so, do you temporarily disable the cache? Do you do it at the cache site with a smart phone or a copy of the cache page on a laptop?

 

What do you look for? How do you resolve discrepancies?

 

I've never done it, so I could use some hints. I'm thinking about doing it during my annual cache inspection.

 

Do I do it? Yes, I have a couple of times while replacing logbooks.

 

The reason? I just think it's interesting too see how many people find geocaches, and don't log them online. Now call me crazy, but despite the growth of Geocaching over the years, I think there actually used to be more of these people than there are now. You weren't required to have an account to view cache coordinates until about 2006 or 2007, if my foggy memory serves me correctly. And anyone with an internet connection could have gotten the coordinates to your cache before that time.

 

Would I do it just to see if all the logs were legitimate? Not a chance. If some major phony logging incident in my area became known, I'm sure I'd have to go and check that out. But it hasn't happened, and probably won't.

[+briansnat]

Don't forget: It's just a hobby and there is no harm in "cheat-logs".

 

Not always true. When you log a find on a cache you are reporting it as there. If it is actually missing, other cachers may waste their time looking for it and the owner may delay maintenance.

 

Phony logs can affect others.

[+racer2814]

I have found a couple phantom logs during maintenance and have asked them to delete their find.

[GermanSailor]

Don't forget: It's just a hobby and there is no harm in "cheat-logs".

 

Not always true. When you log a find on a cache you are reporting it as there. If it is actually missing, other cachers may waste their time looking for it and the owner may delay maintenance.

 

Phony logs can affect others.

The same can be said about not logging DNFs!

 

GermanSailor

[+narcissa]

 

The same can be said about not logging DNFs!

 

GermanSailor

 

Indeed. That, however, does not absolve you of the responsibility to care for your caches, both in the field and online. When you place a cache, or edit the cache page, you agree to abide by the guidelines and requirements, which state:

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

If you can't be bothered to care for your caches to the standard set by the guidelines you agreed to, you shouldn't keep the cache listed on Geocaching.com.

[+Max and 99]

I do check on suspicious logging, and twice recently the person who logged a find for my cache online never actually found my cache. One described the wrong container and said there was no log inside (wrong on both counts) and the other said the cache was empty and the lid off (it was a large, fully-stocked cache when I checked on it). Occasionally someone will log hundreds of cache finds in town in one day, including very difficult caches, and then we'll go out and check the physical logs. It happens, but not very often.

[+tozainamboku]

I've done it once. I even came up with name for it, GeoAuditing. You combine the neccessary task of replacing a log book and add the fun of an audit, - GeoAuditing.

 

Actually, I was curious about who was logging my cache and what they wrote in the paper log. I found about 10% of the logs in the book never logged it on the Geocaching website and everyone who logged online signed the paper log.

Exactly. That's why when I audit my my caches, I cross out the name of anyone who as signed the physical log book but didn't log it online.

 

 

The same can be said about not logging DNFs!

 

GermanSailor

 

Indeed. That, however, does not absolve you of the responsibility to care for your caches, both in the field and online. When you place a cache, or edit the cache page, you agree to abide by the guidelines and requirements, which state:

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

If you can't be bothered to care for your caches to the standard set by the guidelines you agreed to, you shouldn't keep the cache listed on Geocaching.com.

The guidelines say to delete logs that are counterfeit or bogus. They do not say to audit the the online logs against the physical log in the cache. If someone is going around claiming finds online for a cache they never visited then, yes, you should delete these logs. If some geocacher was at your cache and didn't sign the log because the log was wet, or they didn't have a pencil, or they just forgot you have no obligation to delete their log. In fact, I would say you are deleting a legitimate find. Of course the physical log serves as proof that they found the cache, so you as cache owner could make the decision not accept other proof such as a photo or a description of what they found or even that their logs for the rest of the day seem consistent with them finding your cache. I find such a narrow view of online finds to accept to be a bit overboard for an activity that is supposed to be about having fun.

[+narcissa]

 

 

The guidelines say to delete logs that are counterfeit or bogus. They do not say to audit the the online logs against the physical log in the cache. If someone is going around claiming finds online for a cache they never visited then, yes, you should delete these logs. If some geocacher was at your cache and didn't sign the log because the log was wet, or they didn't have a pencil, or they just forgot you have no obligation to delete their log. In fact, I would say you are deleting a legitimate find. Of course the physical log serves as proof that they found the cache, so you as cache owner could make the decision not accept other proof such as a photo or a description of what they found or even that their logs for the rest of the day seem consistent with them finding your cache. I find such a narrow view of online finds to accept to be a bit overboard for an activity that is supposed to be about having fun.

 

Earlier in the thread I said that I don't advocate log audits, but I do think cache owners should watch out for obvious frauds. Please don't misrepresent my position on this issue.

[GermanSailor]

 

If you can't be bothered to care for your caches to the standard set by the guidelines you agreed to, you shouldn't keep the cache listed on Geocaching.com.

Thank you for telling me how to care for my caches! It was about time. More than 2,500 logs on my caches and six hosted events within the last five years. It was about time someone explained geocaching to me!

 

Thank you again!

 

GermanSailor

[+narcissa]

 

If you can't be bothered to care for your caches to the standard set by the guidelines you agreed to, you shouldn't keep the cache listed on Geocaching.com.

Thank you for telling me how to care for my caches! It was about time. More than 2,500 logs on my caches and six hosted events within the last five years. It was about time someone explained geocaching to me!

 

Thank you again!

 

GermanSailor

 

If you didn't need it explained to you, why are you encouraging behaviour that explicitly violates the guidelines? Your personal feelings about fake logs are irrelevant - you agree to the guidelines each time you create or edit a cache, and the guidelines tell you to delete fake logs.

[+DarkZen]

Never would. If someone logs something obviously bogus, I'll go out and check but off the top of my head I can't remember it happening. In fact, around here, I find just the opposite - my physical log always contains more sigs than the online log. I used to send out email reminders but it never helped.

[Dj Storm]

Do you do it? How often?

 

How do you get it done? Do you carry the log home for a day? If so, do you temporarily disable the cache? Do you do it at the cache site with a smart phone or a copy of the cache page on a laptop?

 

What do you look for? How do you resolve discrepancies?

 

I've never done it, so I could use some hints. I'm thinking about doing it during my annual cache inspection.

 

How: I take photos of each page in the logbook;

How often: usually at every maintenance visit;

What I look for: I compare and match the online logs with the physical logs; mark logs with a missing "companion"; (Note: I did this only once for one cache, but I keep the photos, and can do this step anytime)

How to resolve discrepancies: on a case-by-case basis; until now did nothing.

[+Scubasonic]

Do you do it?

Nope. Never have. If I ever get that anal, my wife has threatened to shoot me in the foot.

 

Same here I have never checked my caches hey if they want to cheat that bad that's their deal. After all who really cares about stats accept the one that owns them.

 

To anal for me as well, I think it is taking the game a bit to serious

 

Scubasonic

[Skippermark]

For those who compare and delete logs, what do you do if you find an online log that doesn't match with the signed log?

 

I ask because a lot of people I know use abbreviations when they sign in. Old Time Cacher, might sign in as OTC.

 

There was a group of 7 cachers that went caching together recently, and they signed in using the first initial of their real name, not their caching name.

 

When other groups go together they sometimes use the first initial of their caching name.

 

So, the online log might show that Fun Cacher, Grump Cacher, Happy Cacher, New Cacher, Old Time Cacher, Silly Cacher & Veteran Cacher all found the cache, but the online log will simply show that FGHNOSV found it.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Skippermark

[+R&T4SURE]

My my my my my...! Geo-Auditing, are you kidding? Where will you take a violator, to Geo-Court? C'mon, lets get real here. WAAAAAY to anal!!!!

[+narcissa]

People in my area will often sign in as "geomob" without listing individual names, especially if it's really buggy or rainy.

[GermanSailor]

If you didn't need it explained to you, why are you encouraging behaviour that explicitly violates the guidelines?

It was never my intention to encourage anybody. I just wrote, how I handle it. That's just my opinion, you have every right to have your opinion.

I'm not a missionary! But I enjoy geocaching as a wonderful hobby. Hiding caches others can find is a lot of fun. If someone gets excited about just logging online, well that's like discovering lots of trackables after an event. Who am I to sniff around in the logbooks and spent time on the computer checking them?

 

You can, of course do that, best thing probably is to do this at least once a day!

 

GermanSailor

[+narcissa]

If you didn't need it explained to you, why are you encouraging behaviour that explicitly violates the guidelines?

It was never my intention to encourage anybody. I just wrote, how I handle it. That's just my opinion, you have every right to have your opinion.

I'm not a missionary! But I enjoy geocaching as a wonderful hobby. Hiding caches others can find is a lot of fun. If someone gets excited about just logging online, well that's like discovering lots of trackables after an event. Who am I to sniff around in the logbooks and spent time on the computer checking them?

 

You can, of course do that, best thing probably is to do this at least once a day!

 

GermanSailor

 

My point was that you should delete obvious fakes, not that you should audit your cache logs frequently.

[+briansnat]

Don't forget: It's just a hobby and there is no harm in "cheat-logs".

 

Not always true. When you log a find on a cache you are reporting it as there. If it is actually missing, other cachers may waste their time looking for it and the owner may delay maintenance.

 

Phony logs can affect others.

The same can be said about not logging DNFs!

 

GermanSailor

 

Not the same though. A found it implies that the cache is there. A DNF usually says nothing about the status of the cache, only that the searcher couldn't find it.

 

Another difference is that one is intentionally misleading other geocachers and the other is the honest result of the hunt.