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kewfriend
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... Unfortunately for safety reasons we cannot allow any geocaches to be place on Network Rail's land. It is also a criminal offence for individuals to trespass on the operational railway and we are concerned that some of the geocaches are on rail property and may thus expose participants in your sport to the risk of prosecution and/or safety risks.

 

... In this regard we would be grateful if you could provide us with details of any geocaches which .. may be on Network Rail's land so that we can investigate this further ...

 

Brian Wortman - Communications Executive - Govt & Corporate Affairs

Network rail, Community Relations, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London N1 9AG

tel: 0845 7 11 41 41

Its obviously not my 'shout' to pass this information onto Network Rail. Hopefully TPTB/Reviewers can deal with this.

;)

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... In this regard we would be grateful if you could provide us with details of any geocaches which .. may be on Network Rail's land so that we can investigate this further ...

 

Its obviously not my 'shout' to pass this information onto Network Rail. Hopefully TPTB/Reviewers can deal with this.

;)

 

Just out of interest, can we see the whole letter /e-mail you received?

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Would I be correct in presuming that you have sought permission yourself, and this has highlighted caching to the rail network and now they want to look at it further?

 

It rather looks more like - when taken in conjunction with his previous posts - that he still has "issues" over the Royal parks fiasco and is highlighting to the minority of UK cachers that use this forum - and our reviewers - that he is capable of writing to public landowners concerning cache placement - albeit under the pretence of wanting to hide caches in those locations??? ;)

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Would I be correct in presuming that you have sought permission yourself, and this has highlighted caching to the rail network and now they want to look at it further?

 

It rather looks more like - when taken in conjunction with his previous posts - that he still has "issues" over the Royal parks fiasco and is highlighting to the minority of UK cachers that use this forum - and our reviewers - that he is capable of writing to public landowners concerning cache placement - albeit under the pretence of wanting to hide caches in those locations??? ;)

FromGAGB forum dated 25th November 2009, 08:42 PM, posted by kewfriend

 

The review team archived Peter Pan after I declined to seek written proof of ownership of a railing on the Bayswater Road. All my caches are now archived and I will never set another cache. I am also sorting all caches in the UK by likely land owner and writing to all landowners asking whether they are aware of the caches on their land and whether they have given permission. I am starting with the major landowners: local authorities and government. I will then inform any landowner that the reviewers did not seek evidence of such permission and that they must be held jointly responsible with the cache setter. I have the money time and inclination to ensure that caches are only placed where formal written permission is in the hands of the UK review team. i expect 95% of UK caches to be shut as a result.

 

Unless of course Chris aka Graculus grows up and reinstates Peter Pan.

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I do hope we are not revisiting the ridiculous situation that erupted at the end of last year. I really thought that everyone had reached an amicable agreement. I am sure I will not be alone in being extremely upset if the carpet is still being tugged from under the feet of active geocachers.......... Hopefully Kewfriend will feel able to show us the whole letter and reassure everybody that he has not done a U turn following his much-appreciated apology.

 

natterjacktoad

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Being a new cacher, this thread only helps confirm my suspicions that permission for cache placement is rarely obtained.

 

I went to the local parks & rec department to inquire about placing a cache in a county park. There are numerous caches in several of our county parks, yet parks & rec knows nothing about them.

 

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

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... Unfortunately for safety reasons we cannot allow any geocaches to be place on Network Rail's land. It is also a criminal offence for individuals to trespass on the operational railway and we are concerned that some of the geocaches are on rail property and may thus expose participants in your sport to the risk of prosecution and/or safety risks.

 

... In this regard we would be grateful if you could provide us with details of any geocaches which .. may be on Network Rail's land so that we can investigate this further ...

 

Brian Wortman - Communications Executive - Govt & Corporate Affairs

Network rail, Community Relations, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London N1 9AG

tel: 0845 7 11 41 41

Its obviously not my 'shout' to pass this information onto Network Rail. Hopefully TPTB/Reviewers can deal with this.

;)

 

Rather than trying to Publicly ambush the UK Reviewers and Groundspeak, by posting part of a email you have apparently received, at a unknown date. Please foreword the entire email including headers to one of us. It would help if you would also include the email you sent to them so that we can actually see what was sent to them to generate the reply.

 

Because until one of us receives a copy of the emails including headers so that we can appropriately reply to the appropriate person. We are unable to proceed forward.

 

 

I would be interested in why Network Rail are implying that caches are located on or within the boundaries of the Rails! I am aware of one person who applied for permission on Network Rail Property who was refused. But in that case the location was a Public Footpath (RoW), outside of the fenced off Rail Area. And was a Designated SSSI along a Costal Path. Needless to say the cache was relocated off Network Railway owned land onto County Council owned Land.

 

Deci

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Apart from Kewfriend's childish intentions, I can see the point behind Network Rail's reply.

Placing a cache on NR land would be a little foolish and permission non gratis would seem the obvious reply should permission be sought anyway.

I would suggest that as NR have asked Kewfriend for details of such caches that he be the one to "shout" that information.

He may have friends in Kew, but that is a very small part of the world indeed.

Shame on you Sir!

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Most sidetracked caches I have found are outside stations in the carparks or fences, Network rail own the railway tracks and buildings ie stations but the stations are leased to the train operators so surely the permissions would need to be from the train operators and no one in their right mind would place a cache on a railway track unless of course its a disused one.

what is Kewenemy trying to prove why start this all up again what a ..........................

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does anyone want to open a book on what series Kewfriend is going to target next...

 

the church micro series, off yer trolley, bus stop bewilderment, a - road anarchy...

 

my money's on off yer trolley...

 

We might all be doing him a disservice until we know what the full e-mail / letter actually says.

 

Am I being naive when I say that surely no one involved in caching could be that vindictive? Initially he got almost universal support and sympathy. Surely no reasonable person would then deliberately go out of their way to try and get potentially 1000's of caches archived.

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now, now...

 

this isn't going to degenerate into a rant about micros is it :unsure:

 

 

There are some pretty good SideTracked caches around which aren't micros and are in decent locations near to the station buildings and platforms. But micros are generally ideal for such places... :)

 

And I think common sense needs an input here... Network Rail, as stated by a previous poster, are naturally going to assume that caches have been placed 'on or about the line' and are rightly concerned. But are they going to see that the majority of caches have been hidden well away from the line itself and needn't cause any concern, from both a safety and a security angle? The rest of the letter needs to be shown to the reviewers as soon as possible so Network Rail can take this sorry saga into context and we can all relax. If not, there could well be a mass archival of SideTracked caches thanks to one individual who took the law into their own hands. And we have to remember that older SideTracked caches are still in place on railway premises.

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We might all be doing him a disservice until we know what the full e-mail / letter actually says.

 

Am I being naive when I say that surely no one involved in caching could be that vindictive? Initially he got almost universal support and sympathy. Surely no reasonable person would then deliberately go out of their way to try and get potentially 1000's of caches archived.

 

it's possible that you are right but i'd certainly question the motives of someone who threw their toys out of the pram quite so spectacularly over the furore of the royal parks' caches. afterall, why post this email, or selected parts of it, online at all? why not just flag it to the reviewers?

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We might all be doing him a disservice until we know what the full e-mail / letter actually says.

 

Am I being naive when I say that surely no one involved in caching could be that vindictive? Initially he got almost universal support and sympathy. Surely no reasonable person would then deliberately go out of their way to try and get potentially 1000's of caches archived.

 

it's possible that you are right but i'd certainly question the motives of someone who threw their toys out of the pram quite so spectacularly over the furore of the royal parks' caches. afterall, why post this email, or selected parts of it, online at all? why not just flag it to the reviewers?

 

Unfortunately I'm more inclined to think you are right.......

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it's possible that you are right but i'd certainly question the motives of someone who threw their toys out of the pram quite so spectacularly over the furore of the royal parks' caches. afterall, why post this email, or selected parts of it, online at all? why not just flag it to the reviewers?

 

It bears the hallmark of someone with a personal gripe against the reviewers. And yet again, we the cachers will suffer from the outfall :unsure:

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Apart from Kewfriend's childish intentions, I can see the point behind Network Rail's reply.

Placing a cache on NR land would be a little foolish and permission non gratis would seem the obvious reply should permission be sought anyway.

I would suggest that as NR have asked Kewfriend for details of such caches that he be the one to "shout" that information.

He may have friends in Kew, but that is a very small part of the world indeed.

Shame on you Sir!

 

I am with you CK, I see absolutely no reason for reviewers or Groundspeak to get involved unless contacted directly by the appropriate authorities.

 

NR have asked Kewfriend directly to reply to this private correspondence. For reviewers to get entangled in this would be akin to me requesting if I can ride my bike through certain parts of town... then when the council respond saying something like only in designated areas, I post this response on a cycle/sports forum telling their moderators to deal with it.

 

Seriously, I trust all reviewers have not approved caches on rails, just as I trust that reviewers have not approved caches that have been placed in local indoor public swimming pools.

 

I don't think any reviewer needs to respond on behalf of some loony who writes to the local swimming pool to ask if caches are permitted there, and I don't think any reviewer needs to respond to NR in this case.

 

Please, UK reviewers, don't create a rod for your own back or for all of us by responding to private correspondence between someone who happens to be a geocacher and Network Rail. Please wait until NR contact you directly!

 

I know, being new here, I don't hold much influence in geocaching culture and theres the almight GAGB and such, but I can tell you from a position of experience and knowledgeable authority that there is no need for GS to respond at this point.

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it's possible that you are right but i'd certainly question the motives of someone who threw their toys out of the pram quite so spectacularly over the furore of the royal parks' caches. afterall, why post this email, or selected parts of it, online at all? why not just flag it to the reviewers?

 

It bears the hallmark of someone with a personal gripe against the reviewers. And yet again, we the cachers will suffer from the outfall :unsure:

 

it may be a personal gripe but at the moment who is looking the bigger fool as it backfires in his face and he looses the respect of others

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... I don't think any reviewer needs to respond to NR in this case.

 

...Please wait until NR contact you directly!

 

 

Unfortunately, I doubt NR would contact UK reviewers as they would not even be aware of their existence. They would more likely contact Groundspeak directly, who, unfortunately, have a history archiving first, asking questions later :unsure:

 

 

Mark

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Watch Groundspeak get involved, and apply the guideline:

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In the United States we generally use a distance of 150 ft (46 m) but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.

 

And then start applying other guidelines such as no caches in/under/on bridges...

:unsure:

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Unless of course Chris aka Graculus grows up and reinstates Peter Pan.

Comments of this type are unacceptable.

A reminder...

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?act=boardrules

"Here are some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

1. Forum courtesy: Please treat Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, fellow community members, and guests on these boards with courtesy and respect. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they should be treated fairly.

 

3. Personal attacks and inflammatory behavior will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad. General attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated."

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Unless of course Chris aka Graculus grows up and reinstates Peter Pan.

Comments of this type are unacceptable.

A reminder...

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?act=boardrules

"Here are some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

1. Forum courtesy: Please treat Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, fellow community members, and guests on these boards with courtesy and respect. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they should be treated fairly.

 

3. Personal attacks and inflammatory behavior will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad. General attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated."

 

Mtn-man I think this was a quote which norsch was bringing to the attension of people who do not use the GAGB forums

 

Edited to add link to original post on GAGB http://gagb.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=37...amp;postcount=3

Edited by Moote
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OK read this and the GAGB postings.

 

1st of all, I can see the sense of no caches on Network Rail land, there has to be a demarcation line, and that is hard to decide so blanket is reasonable.

 

OK that is out of the way, now for the rest of this, lets not bait anyone here, that might just work against all of us. Lets take several steps back and breath.

 

The decision of the Royal Parks is their right, we have to live with this and there has to be a demarcation line there also, the perimeter railings I would suggest is within that.

 

The reviewers are dealing with the issue in a responsible and reasonable way, because they have had notification from the landowner for the removal of these caches. This hopefully will be a short term thing, but if we kick and cry now in front of the landowners then it might be terminal.

 

If a reasonable request for any information is asked, and it is not provided, what can you expect, some decision has to be made, and if facts are not provided then better safe than sorry, or we all might start to suffer.

 

If anyone wishes to pursue some kind of witch hunt for any reason, well let them, but it is they who will loose the respect of many.

 

Deep breaths, and count to 10 before anything else is said or done.

 

Moote

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Apart from Kewfriend's childish intentions, I can see the point behind Network Rail's reply.

Placing a cache on NR land would be a little foolish and permission non gratis would seem the obvious reply should permission be sought anyway.

I would suggest that as NR have asked Kewfriend for details of such caches that he be the one to "shout" that information.

He may have friends in Kew, but that is a very small part of the world indeed.

Shame on you Sir!

 

Hear hear!

 

C'mon Kewfriend, you must be watching this thread and it's over 24 hours since your original post - time for a reply so we all know what is really going on.

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Its obviously not my 'shout' to pass this information onto Network Rail. Hopefully TPTB/Reviewers can deal with this.

:unsure:

 

I think "You started it, you can finish it" applies here. You've said before that you have "the money time and inclination". I suggest you get on with it!

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... Unfortunately for safety reasons we cannot allow any geocaches to be place on Network Rail's land. It is also a criminal offence for individuals to trespass on the operational railway and we are concerned that some of the geocaches are on rail property and may thus expose participants in your sport to the risk of prosecution and/or safety risks.

 

... In this regard we would be grateful if you could provide us with details of any geocaches which .. may be on Network Rail's land so that we can investigate this further ...

 

Brian Wortman - Communications Executive - Govt & Corporate Affairs

Network rail, Community Relations, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London N1 9AG

tel: 0845 7 11 41 41

Its obviously not my 'shout' to pass this information onto Network Rail. Hopefully TPTB/Reviewers can deal with this.

:unsure:

 

...... Please foreword the entire email including headers to one of us. It would help if you would also include the email you sent to them so that we can actually see what was sent to them to generate the reply.

 

Because until one of us receives a copy of the emails including headers so that we can appropriately reply to the appropriate person. We are unable to proceed forward.

 

............

Deci

 

I can't find any trace of "Brian" anywhere in the UK. However his twin is a backhaul manager for Walmart in the states. However, I've punted a mail to his most likely address, but I expect it to be returned to sender.

 

You don't have an imaginary friend do you? :)

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I think we do require and explanation from Kewfriend. Let's give him a chance, he posted this LESS than 24 hours ago. He may not have been back on his computer since then? I know that despite what my good wife says I don't live on the forum!

 

I know what Kewfriend has said he would do in the past, but he also apologised for what he wrote and said that it wouldn't happen. I find it disgusting that only a couple of hours after his post he is being ganged up on by nearly everyone who has made a post on here! :unsure:

 

I am pleased to say that I have been in the company of Kewfriend several times, and can say that I find him to be a very likeable person. Let us wait and see what the original post is about, before we start pointing our fingers in a nasty way?? :)

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I think we do require and explanation from Kewfriend. Let's give him a chance, he posted this LESS than 24 hours ago. He may not have been back on his computer since then? I know that despite what my good wife says I don't live on the forum!

 

I know what Kewfriend has said he would do in the past, but he also apologised for what he wrote and said that it wouldn't happen. I find it disgusting that only a couple of hours after his post he is being ganged up on by nearly everyone who has made a post on here! :unsure:

 

I am pleased to say that I have been in the company of Kewfriend several times, and can say that I find him to be a very likeable person. Let us wait and see what the original post is about, before we start pointing our fingers in a nasty way?? :)

 

Sorry HH but the way in which he posted his OP and what he has openly said on this forum in the past does not put him across as a very likeable person, even if he is.

 

I think people are feeling very upset about the little information he has posted and so I can understand why they are venting their views in a negative way even if I agree with them or not.

 

Yorkie30.

Edited by Yorkie30
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Hmmm ...

 

That is the full content except for personal details edited out.

 

My apology is on record and all previous caches etc have indeed been archived, including a sidetracked. One seeks to re-establish a sidetracked, one communicates with the appropriate authority and one receives a reply - not necessarily the reply one wished. One publishes the reply.

 

All hell breaks loose.

 

I surmise (but its a guess), that NR view all land, stations, objects, boundaries etc as within their purview. If NR follow up this with another 'request' it will be forwarded to any geocacher's address rendered to me, but there is no intention of my replying to this NR letter.

 

Whatever Dec says about sidetrackeds etc and other caches on NR property, I know that I have done dozens of caches that are at the best 'problematical'. I will not list them here for the obvious reason that that could cause a 'heap of trouble' and NR could read this. There is also the separate issue that the PoT exceptional arrest provisions apply to ALL public transport property, AND nearby locations. There is the additional issue that the placement of a cache is itself only accurate to (lets say) 10 metres which means that any person seeking a cache near to public transport property may inadvertently or even deliberately stray onto such property.

 

It would have been wrong not to place the NR communication in the public domain.

 

It is up to the TPTB/Reviewers to either dig a little deeper into this issue.

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It would have been wrong not to place the NR communication in the public domain.

 

 

What! You have already placed part of this NR communication into the public domain, what is it you are trying to achieve? You are becoming somewhat laughable with your statements. It is patently obvious that you just want to kill off Geocaching in the UK. Spit your dummy out and move on in life; it's our ball as well.

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It's looking rather suspicious to me. Kewfriend archives all of his caches and then, shortly afterwards, decides that reinstating a Sidetracked is just the thing to do. Could this be because this could involve writing to a body which may just have an objection to geocaching? Then he posts a heavily edited reply along with a smug'over to you then' comment.

 

Kewfriend, you were happy to tell us that you have plenty of time and money to screw up geocaching. I genuinely suggest that looking at other ways you could direct these resources, which you are very fortunate to have, could perhaps be more rewarding? Just one example are all the hospices and other organisations who work with the terminally ill. They are desperate for voluntary time and money. Just 2 hours of your time on a street collection can pay for one night of home nursing so that a dying person can be in a familiar place with their family. Surely, diverting time and money towards something akin to this would give you a warm glow inside? I do hope that you don't get any similar pleasure from what you appear to be doing now.

 

Natterjacktoad

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Hmmm ...

 

That is the full content except for personal details edited out.

 

My apology is on record and all previous caches etc have indeed been archived, including a sidetracked. One seeks to re-establish a sidetracked, one communicates with the appropriate authority and one receives a reply - not necessarily the reply one wished. One publishes the reply.

 

All hell breaks loose.

 

isn't that what you wanted?

 

stir things up by posting private corrispondce that could apply to your earlier threats and asking the reviewers to deal with it publicly, trying put them into a corner to gain a twisted type of revenge

 

 

I surmise (but its a guess), that NR view all land, stations, objects, boundaries etc as within their purview. If NR follow up this with another 'request' it will be forwarded to any geocacher's address rendered to me, but there is no intention of my replying to this NR letter.

 

Whatever Dec says about sidetrackeds etc and other caches on NR property, I know that I have done dozens of caches that are at the best 'problematical'. I will not list them here for the obvious reason that that could cause a 'heap of trouble' and NR could read this. There is also the separate issue that the PoT exceptional arrest provisions apply to ALL public transport property, AND nearby locations. There is the additional issue that the placement of a cache is itself only accurate to (lets say) 10 metres which means that any person seeking a cache near to public transport property may inadvertently or even deliberately stray onto such property.

 

It would have been wrong not to place the NR communication in the public domain.

 

try the fact that it was wrong of you to place the NR communication in the public domain, tryting to bully action to be taken

 

sorry but to me your looking more and more foolish - jeasus even mootes making more sense than you

 

 

It is up to the TPTB/Reviewers to either dig a little deeper into this issue.

Edited by Munkeh
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Whatever Dec says about sidetrackeds etc and other caches on NR property, I know that I have done dozens of caches that are at the best 'problematical'. I will not list them here for the obvious reason that that could cause a 'heap of trouble' and NR could read this. There is also the separate issue that the PoT exceptional arrest provisions apply to ALL public transport property, AND nearby locations. There is the additional issue that the placement of a cache is itself only accurate to (lets say) 10 metres which means that any person seeking a cache near to public transport property may inadvertently or even deliberately stray onto such property.

 

It would have been wrong not to place the NR communication in the public domain.

 

It is up to the TPTB/Reviewers to either dig a little deeper into this issue.

 

With respect kewfriend (and to be clear, I'm still trying to give you the benefit of any doubt here), there are numerous caches placed that are placed near, but outside, areas that might not welcome cachers. Which is why, on the relevant pages, they say things like "You do not need to enter the (whatever)". I remember some in the Royal Parks (going back some years, obviously they're all gone now) that even went further and said "You do not need to leave the path"

 

Some caches are very close to cliff edges but we don't archive them in case somebody strays over the edge not looking where they are going.

 

There has to be a degree of common sense used, and if all it takes is a note on a cache page to say "The cache is not on railway property" it makes it clear to anyone searching they don't need to go there.

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Once again I'll make the same request.

 

Please forward the email you sent and the reply you received including the headers to one of the UK Reviewers.

 

That is the full content except for personal details edited out.

 

Sorry but you haven't edited out all personal details

 

Brian Wortman - Communications Executive - Govt & Corporate Affairs Network rail, Community Relations, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London N1 9AG tel: 0845 7 11 41 41

 

Unless either one of my colleagues or myself has the full details of the request with generated the reply and the full reply that means including the headers. We are unable to assess or reply to the request.

 

As you seem unwilling to provide this information, please provide all the evidence including GC Code and Proof of the Landowner where every cache is located to one of my colleagues or myself.

 

In the case I mentioned, it is outside of the Fenced off area of the rails. And is a RoW forming part of a Coastal Path, which is being upgraded by the local CC. The reason I asked for Proof was due to the original cache location being a SSSI. The owner contacted the local CC Rangers for Permission, presuming as they'd just upgraded that section of Path that the CC must own it. It was the Ranger who provided information that the location was owned by Network Rail. At no time did I or do I have access to information showing the actual boundaries of Land Owned by Network Rail. and have to work on the basis of the Boundary Fence marks the Boundary. Caches on the other side of the Fence are not not knowingly published

 

I've refused caches placed within the fenced area at Pedestrian Level Crossings accessed by stile or Kissing Gate. As for Side Tracked Caches, I use as many as possible resources to insure that the container is off Station Property! Again I have no access to the actual Boundary of Land owned by Network Rail. So try to insure that the container is off all indicated Network Rail Property, that is off the Station, Car park and any approach which appears to belong specifically to the Station. IE: is not also access to Non Network Rail Property.

 

So as you have access to this information, please either provide it to my colleagues and myself, or provide Landownership and GC Codes for every cache that you have Proof is on Network Rail owned Land!

 

Please stop beating around the bush claiming that it is down to the UK Reviewers to do the work! You obviously and intentionally started this issue, and claim to have the Proof. So please provide this proof to the UK Reviewers.

 

Deci

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I can understand why people are angry, but as already stated by myself and Kewfriend, his apology is well recorded. So with this in mind, I am going to give Kewfriend my support, at least until more details come out.

 

I personally try my best not to jump to conclusions, hence my very first question on this thread aimed at Kewfriend. I respectfully request that people stop presuming that they know why this thread has been started, as from where I sit, it is just one big lynch mob that is out to get Kewfriend, and it doesn't look nice.

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I can understand why people are angry, but as already stated by myself and Kewfriend, his apology is well recorded. So with this in mind, I am going to give Kewfriend my support, at least until more details come out.

 

I personally try my best not to jump to conclusions, hence my very first question on this thread aimed at Kewfriend. I respectfully request that people stop presuming that they know why this thread has been started, as from where I sit, it is just one big lynch mob that is out to get Kewfriend, and it doesn't look nice.

 

From what I see, an apology was made, but that was taken away by dragging this back up.

 

Sometimes people say things just to get the wolves off their back, that is what this appears to be; his apology has given him some respite time to carry on a campaign.

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I genuinely suggest that looking at other ways you could direct these resources, which you are very fortunate to have, could perhaps be more rewarding? Just one example are all the hospices and other organisations who work with the terminally ill. They are desperate for voluntary time and money. Just 2 hours of your time on a street collection can pay for one night of home nursing so that a dying person can be in a familiar place with their family. Surely, diverting time and money towards something akin to this would give you a warm glow inside?

An excellent idea to support your local hospice which do magnificent work. Unfortunately I expect a passing mod will soon end the discussion under the regular ban on mentioning charitable causes here. :rolleyes:

 

Also Kewfriend is being accused of all sorts of nefarious behaviour which to my mind comes pretty close to showing disrespect which is also banned. I'm with HH in giving him the benefit of the doubt until convinced otherwise.

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... Unfortunately for safety reasons we cannot allow any geocaches to be place on Network Rail's land. It is also a criminal offence for individuals to trespass on the operational railway and we are concerned that some of the geocaches are on rail property and may thus expose participants in your sport to the risk of prosecution and/or safety risks.

 

... In this regard we would be grateful if you could provide us with details of any geocaches which .. may be on Network Rail's land so that we can investigate this further ...

 

Brian Wortman - Communications Executive - Govt & Corporate Affairs

Network rail, Community Relations, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London N1 9AG

tel: 0845 7 11 41 41

Its obviously not my 'shout' to pass this information onto Network Rail. Hopefully TPTB/Reviewers can deal with this.

:rolleyes:

 

Just seen this .... UNBELIEVABLE !!!

is this an example of a Geo virus set to afflict us all ?

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I genuinely suggest that looking at other ways you could direct these resources, which you are very fortunate to have, could perhaps be more rewarding? Just one example are all the hospices and other organisations who work with the terminally ill. They are desperate for voluntary time and money. Just 2 hours of your time on a street collection can pay for one night of home nursing so that a dying person can be in a familiar place with their family. Surely, diverting time and money towards something akin to this would give you a warm glow inside?

An excellent idea to support your local hospice which do magnificent work. Unfortunately I expect a passing mod will soon end the discussion under the regular ban on mentioning charitable causes here. :rolleyes:

 

Also Kewfriend is being accused of all sorts of nefarious behaviour which to my mind comes pretty close to showing disrespect which is also banned. I'm with HH in giving him the benefit of the doubt until convinced otherwise.

Kewfriend does not deserve any respect and I for one was not impressed with his apology he shouldn't have started this in the first place so as far as i can see there is no doubt to give him the benefit of.

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I genuinely suggest that looking at other ways you could direct these resources, which you are very fortunate to have, could perhaps be more rewarding? Just one example are all the hospices and other organisations who work with the terminally ill. They are desperate for voluntary time and money. Just 2 hours of your time on a street collection can pay for one night of home nursing so that a dying person can be in a familiar place with their family. Surely, diverting time and money towards something akin to this would give you a warm glow inside?

An excellent idea to support your local hospice which do magnificent work. Unfortunately I expect a passing mod will soon end the discussion under the regular ban on mentioning charitable causes here. :rolleyes:

 

Also Kewfriend is being accused of all sorts of nefarious behaviour which to my mind comes pretty close to showing disrespect which is also banned. I'm with HH in giving him the benefit of the doubt until convinced otherwise.

Kewfriend does not deserve any respect and I for one was not impressed with his apology he shouldn't have started this in the first place so as far as i can see there is no doubt to give him the benefit of.

 

In an ideal world he wouldn't have started this but, having started it, what would you have him do? It's easy to provide solutions that boil down to "I wouldn't start from here".

 

If this does prove to be an attempt to get a huge number of caches archived in a single hit he'll certainly earn the (deserved) contempt of much of the caching community. But let's at least figure out if that is the intent before passing judgment. It's not as if our individual opinions now will make much difference to whether the Sidetracked caches get archived or not/

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I genuinely suggest that looking at other ways you could direct these resources, which you are very fortunate to have, could perhaps be more rewarding? Just one example are all the hospices and other organisations who work with the terminally ill. They are desperate for voluntary time and money. Just 2 hours of your time on a street collection can pay for one night of home nursing so that a dying person can be in a familiar place with their family. Surely, diverting time and money towards something akin to this would give you a warm glow inside?

An excellent idea to support your local hospice which do magnificent work. Unfortunately I expect a passing mod will soon end the discussion under the regular ban on mentioning charitable causes here. :rolleyes:

 

Also Kewfriend is being accused of all sorts of nefarious behaviour which to my mind comes pretty close to showing disrespect which is also banned. I'm with HH in giving him the benefit of the doubt until convinced otherwise.

Kewfriend does not deserve any respect and I for one was not impressed with his apology he shouldn't have started this in the first place so as far as i can see there is no doubt to give him the benefit of.

 

In an ideal world he wouldn't have started this but, having started it, what would you have him do? It's easy to provide solutions that boil down to "I wouldn't start from here".

 

If this does prove to be an attempt to get a huge number of caches archived in a single hit he'll certainly earn the (deserved) contempt of much of the caching community. But let's at least figure out if that is the intent before passing judgment. It's not as if our individual opinions now will make much difference to whether the Sidetracked caches get archived or not/

 

It's simple what he should do; think about his behaviour as being akin to a mardy school child. Then from there realise that his current stance is far from mature, and adjust his behaviour to that which an adult would follow.

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At this stage I'd like to suggest that the cause of geocaching in the UK would be best served by leaving this whole matter for kewfriend and Deceangi to discuss in private. Further speculation regarding motives and intent is not helpful, IMHO.

 

If UK geocachers need to take any action regarding the locations of their caches then I'm sure Deceangi or the other reviewers will contact individuals in due course.

 

 

 

MrsB

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At this stage I'd like to suggest that the cause of geocaching in the UK would be best served by leaving this whole matter for kewfriend and Deceangi to discuss in private. Further speculation regarding motives and intent is not helpful, IMHO.

 

If UK geocachers need to take any action regarding the locations of their caches then I'm sure Deceangi or the other reviewers will contact individuals in due course.

 

MrsB

 

Methinks that the horse has already bolted :rolleyes: .

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