Jump to content

will there be a decent winmobile app?


tsolt
Followers 14

Recommended Posts

Please read.

 

Would each of the posters who compared GC.com to various dictators and tyrants, past and present, please stop and think about what you are saying, and think about who might be reading this?

 

Groundspeak has a user population of a little under three million, and tens of thousands read these forums. One subset is a number users unhappy that they can't play a game on their cellphobne. Another subset includes people who really have suffered under some oppression -- either themselves having been jailed, or having relatives who were jailed, tortured, or executed under such regimes.

 

Inconvenienced cellphone users comparing themselves to political prisoners or the ghosts of death camps? It is beyond ignorant, it is obscene.

 

I wish the moderators would close this thread, or delete it, even though that might be seen as speaking out against the freedom to complain about not being able play a game on a cellphone. So in the name of preserving that very important freedom, I would ask everyone who has written or read such bizarre comparisons to think about it, and then observe a moment of silence for whichever group evokes more sympathy in you.

 

I'm done. Thank you for reading this.

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment

I am NOT a premium member (yet anyway) as I'm brand new GC but would not have even considered it if I had not found the SM GC app that is under discussion. I hope that GS realizes that a windows mobile app (used legally or not in the past) drives millions of hits to their site as I spend much of the time using the computer's "big screen" to plan, search, review, and log caches. I’ve tried it the other way (downloading files, entering co-ordinates, etc) without the app under discussion and quite frankly, it takes all the fun out of it putting so much work into it. I realize I’m spoiled but there are 1000’s (probably more worldwide) of people like me that not hitting http://www.geocaching.com anymore because we are geocaching. Please come to a resolution soon because my kids want to go geocaching again soon!

Thanks!

Link to comment

I really hope Groundspeak can work something out with Tom so that this app can live on legally. I really do not want to use any other app other than Tom's because it just rocks, and my q9h is the perfect tool (better than my TILT). Sure I could buy an iphone and use that, but honestly i'd rather use my q9h for geocaching mainly because of Tom's app, battery swapping, battery life, and I won't feel as bad if I drop it, get it dirty, or fall down with it.

 

Groundspeak must realize that we are now in the era of the smartphone, the ultimate geocaching tool. They need to support development of these kinds of apps for other platforms.

Link to comment

I really hope Groundspeak can work something out with Tom so that this app can live on legally. I really do not want to use any other app other than Tom's because it just rocks, and my q9h is the perfect tool (better than my TILT). Sure I could buy an iphone and use that, but honestly i'd rather use my q9h for geocaching mainly because of Tom's app, battery swapping, battery life, and I won't feel as bad if I drop it, get it dirty, or fall down with it.

 

Groundspeak must realize that we are now in the era of the smartphone, the ultimate geocaching tool. They need to support development of these kinds of apps for other platforms.

 

I purchased my TMO TP2 last fall and stumbled upon Tom's app and thought it was awesome. Now it's winter here in the Rockies and the ground is covered with snow so I hope we can use his programming soon because I can't find anything in the snow now anyway. Please realize that my boys are really stoked to go "treasure hunting" with me soon so fix your disagreements and let our children play.

Link to comment

Please read.

 

Would each of the posters who compared GC.com to various dictators and tyrants, past and present, please stop and think about what you are saying, and think about who might be reading this?

 

Groundspeak has a user population of a little under three million, and tens of thousands read these forums. One subset is a number users unhappy that they can't play a game on their cellphobne. Another subset includes people who really have suffered under some oppression -- either themselves having been jailed, or having relatives who were jailed, tortured, or executed under such regimes.

 

Inconvenienced cellphone users comparing themselves to political prisoners or the ghosts of death camps? It is beyond ignorant, it is obscene.

 

I wish the moderators would close this thread, or delete it, even though that might be seen as speaking out against the freedom to complain about not being able play a game on a cellphone. So in the name of preserving that very important freedom, I would ask everyone who has written or read such bizarre comparisons to think about it, and then observe a moment of silence for whichever group evokes more sympathy in you.

 

I'm done. Thank you for reading this.

 

So you want to punish the masses for the sins of the few? Even though the masses spoke out against those few? <sarcasm>brilliant!</sarcasm>

 

(Or the mods could just edit said posts...

Edited by kayl
Link to comment

Please read.

 

Would each of the posters who compared GC.com to various dictators and tyrants, past and present, please stop and think about what you are saying, and think about who might be reading this?

 

Groundspeak has a user population of a little under three million, and tens of thousands read these forums. One subset is a number users unhappy that they can't play a game on their cellphobne. Another subset includes people who really have suffered under some oppression -- either themselves having been jailed, or having relatives who were jailed, tortured, or executed under such regimes.

 

Inconvenienced cellphone users comparing themselves to political prisoners or the ghosts of death camps? It is beyond ignorant, it is obscene.

 

I wish the moderators would close this thread, or delete it, even though that might be seen as speaking out against the freedom to complain about not being able play a game on a cellphone. So in the name of preserving that very important freedom, I would ask everyone who has written or read such bizarre comparisons to think about it, and then observe a moment of silence for whichever group evokes more sympathy in you.

 

I'm done. Thank you for reading this.

 

While I completely agree with your statement, I'd prefer those few posts be deleted, rather than the entire thread. I believe there has been some very constructive discussion from both sides. I'd hate to see that go away.

Link to comment

Please read.

 

Would each of the posters who compared GC.com to various dictators and tyrants, past and present, please stop and think about what you are saying, and think about who might be reading this?

 

Groundspeak has a user population of a little under three million, and tens of thousands read these forums. One subset is a number users unhappy that they can't play a game on their cellphobne. Another subset includes people who really have suffered under some oppression -- either themselves having been jailed, or having relatives who were jailed, tortured, or executed under such regimes.

 

Inconvenienced cellphone users comparing themselves to political prisoners or the ghosts of death camps? It is beyond ignorant, it is obscene.

 

I wish the moderators would close this thread, or delete it, even though that might be seen as speaking out against the freedom to complain about not being able play a game on a cellphone. So in the name of preserving that very important freedom, I would ask everyone who has written or read such bizarre comparisons to think about it, and then observe a moment of silence for whichever group evokes more sympathy in you.

 

I'm done. Thank you for reading this.

 

I would consider this and over reaction also, oh the irony.

Link to comment

Kayl and Crude -- I'd be happy if the mods would remove the offensive material I was referring to. I'm actually surprised and offended that they haven't, which is why I posted item #151.

 

There is no irony in a privately owned and operated forum setting limits. And this is supposed to be a moderated forum -- there are rules posted and a bunch of folks with "Moderator" listed next to their name. But those mods seem to be very busy editing out the name of a cellphone app to worry about what might be outrageously, politically, historically, and personally offensive to anyone.

Link to comment

Similarly, there are some moderators that don't have (and don't want) that badge for the very reason Motorcycle Mama described. Most of what I say isn't "moderator stuff" and when I do, I start with "Moderator note" or such.

 

 

After the first few tweaks, I handed this thread to Brad_W as my pay grade doesn't do legal issues. I find a lot of this discussion appalling, but I'm not participating in it. This thread really stands out as an exception to the civility normally found in the GPS and Technology group.

Link to comment

Aww, burst our wonderful illusion of supreme Moderators.

 

 

Also, for those saying that they can't go caching anymore because the program no longer scrapes live data, there is a solution. Simply import a Pocket Query and choose Menu>Cache List>Prev Cache List. Viola, it works! You can sort by nearest, view on Google Maps, etc. It doesn't need a constant connection to work.

 

I use that because everything is on my phone already. An where there is no data coverage, Offline Mode works out beautifully. Granted, the data is only as new as your PQ, but unless you're an FTF hound, its fine.

Link to comment

I believe that forums like this are important!

It must be possible to post a statement that expresses a different point of view!

I don't think that personal accusations or intensive cynism are helpful to find a constructive solution, but I also find it kind of strange, if simply using the name of a programm makes you feel like a criminal (specially when even the legal counsel is allowed to mention it).

 

I wouldn't understand if this thread would be closed, because it would look like GC is ignoring all the people who are trying to find a solution for a Geocache-application for the WinMo-platform (and as far as I understood Bryan - the legal GC-counsel - is just trying to do this together with Tom).

 

I think that in some of the threads the frustration of the WinMo users is not correctly expressed, but freedom is also freedom of speech! The fact that it seems that GC has ignored the wish of the WinMo-community for quite a long time and the experience of censorship in some posts of this forum may have lead to some of these unnecessary over-reactions. But from my point of view, the closing of this thread would be counterproductive and heating up the vicious circle.

 

I think the facts are on the table, Bryan anounced that there will be dicussions with the developer of the WinMo-app and hopefully there will be a solution soon for a lot of people who are waiting for it. Keep these people informed and updated. You couldn't do this by closing this thread!

Link to comment

It would be really nice if everyone would calm down, read what they are going to post at least twice, before posting.

I'm kind of shocked what extremity, both ways, that this thread has taken.

 

The one thing I think we all have to focus on, is that the GC-community really needs a winmo-app, and we need one thats legit.

We want one with Tom's app's functionality, and my wish for 2010 is that GS will come to the same conclusion as those of us that have used Tom's app, that this is an asset to the GC-game/community, and that they take a positive approach, instead of a negative one.

I do, full heart, believe that that it will benefit everyone, and give GS a lot more kudos and a better standing among geocachers around the world, if GS play ball and give Tom what he need to make the app legit, and in the long term GS will benefit economically too.

 

So i beg everyone to focus on whats important, and stop accusations and threats of all kinds. Give GS a chance to make the right choices.

If they don't, then there is a whole new situation, but as long as there is no news, lets calm down.

Link to comment

It's nice that the moderators that are editing this thread misspelled the name of the program that we are all discussing =). Anyhow, I am glad that it has come to groundspeaks attention that there are programs out there that are perhaps better and more user friendly than the ones they are offering. I really hope that Groundspeak and Tom can find a solution that works reasonable for both premium members and free members.

 

I have a question for those of you that are using (or have tried) the iPhone application. Is it possible to use it if you are a free member? And how does it work? Are there restrictions in how much information that is displayed or other such limitations?

 

Personally I can say that I have been using the xxxxx-program from my first caching day and it is the reason that I (after a month or two) became a premium member so that I could combine the power of spontaneous caching, pocket queries and the possibility to be up to date with everything from TB's to logs. As a side note I must say that it is a little cheap that you only get a petty five logs from the PQ's. I have always used 25 as a minimum and I would have missed many caches if I didn't have them with me.

 

Conclusion: Go to work Groundspeak and fix this, it's what your members are paying you to do!

Link to comment

Have come across this topic while searching online as to why our favourite tool for geocaching had stopped working and no update to fix it for the past couple of weeks.

 

Had no idea that it was even a "banned" app until we found this thread! It's been so fantastic that we had even been recommending it to others. Every other app we've tried is next to useless, and we still prefer to use X offline with the gpx files as it's still better than anything else.

 

Attempting to geocache now has gone from a quick and simple search for caches around me, to creating a pocket query, displaying it on the google map page, modifying it, viewing it, modifying it, and so on until finally running it to get the gpx file emailed. This has to be far worse on the servers than what we were doing previously.

 

Spending hours in front of the computer trying to organise to go outdoors feels like one hell of a contradiction!

 

We sincerely hope that something is resolved for us win mobile users (we're even happy to pay extra for it), otherwise there may not be much point in renewing our paid membership as the fun has certainly disappeared at the moment...

Link to comment

Matt & Katie, I agree it IS nice be able to decide to go caching on the spur of the moment, even if I didn't bring my "real" GPS with me -- but cellphone caching is not the only (or even the most common) way most cachers go about it.

 

And it doesn't have to take hours to arrange an outing. Setting up a pocket query might take a few minutes - or maybe many minutes if you're really fussy - but then it's DONE. You can set the queries up ONCE and GC can run them for you every day wthout any further effort from you. The results can be in your your morning email every day if you want them. They only take minutes to download if you'll be caching that day -- or just delete them if you don't need them.

 

I hope you (and everyone else who wants one) can get a working, compliant windows-mobile app, soon. But in the meantime, I also hope you won't give up on caching altogether. Millions of other cachers have been using stand-alone GPS units and pocket queries, for years -- and you'll find there's a large group of folks around here more than willing to help you along with the "How do I do that?" kind of questions.

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment

lee_rimar,

I have a suspicion that You have misunderstood why so many are so passionate about this app, and its abilities.

It's not that we don't know how to PQ, or have the time for it, or dont have a stand alone GPSr.

It's just that some of us (quite a few actually) don't plan our caching, we use it as a way of killing surprise free time.

 

So FWIW, the reason we are so passionate about this app, is its ability to let us geocache spontaneously, when we have 5-15 min available, and didn't plan to go geocaching.

with 3 kids, my own company, sports and volunteer work, less than 10% of my caching is planned.

 

I will not quit geocaching, or terminate my Premium membership, I'll just reduce my geocaching activity på 80-90%.

Link to comment
Also since my phone is my only geocaching devise I will not be able to return the trackables I have until the app or something similar start working
You don't own a computer?

 

I log -most- of my finds in the field from my phone, but if I ever need to edit a log later or drop a tracackable I just do it from my computer at home.

 

that is the beauty that I not only can pick up trackable, but also log it down as I go. yes I do use computer, but mainly for fun (statistics). What I love about XXX is not just the possibility to look around any time and anywehere, but also that I can log all trackable and drop it anywhere I like. basically I have no more need to use computer.

 

now the situation is changed, I have to use PQ, and when I got home I am literally forced to turn the computer on and do all the work (log, etc) on the computer.

 

and why all the screaming? the issue is that so far as I have found out this XXX app is the only one that is easy to use, and do everything I need. I haven't found any other that I could use as a replacement. just give me app that would do all that is required and I will "shut-up"...

Link to comment
I have a suspicion that You have misunderstood why so many are so passionate about this app, and its abilities.
Tsolt, I do understand why people are keen on the program. And I think by degrees you misunderstand me.

 

I fully appreciate how wonderful it is to be able to pull my phone out of my pocket and see what caches are near me; navigate, find, and log them with little or no pre-planning. I do that a lot -- but if I couldn't, it would be only an inconvenience, not a tragedy.

 

Several here have commented as if using Tom's App is the ONLY possibility for them; that if they don't have this one app, they simply can't geocache. Myself and others have pointed out alternatives -- simply trying to be helpful, not necessarily argumentative. If someone is passionate about geocaching, there are ways to do it without Tom's app. Or a cellphone. Or even a GPS :(

 

As for being "passionate" about Tom's app? A fine thing. But some posts in this thread have flown right past passionate, and landed somewhere on the far fringes of lunacy. And while I've watched the management carefully censor the name of Tom's program, they've left some unimaginably offensive material largely intact. That's bizarre -- and it makes it a lot more difficult for a useful discussion to continue.

 

I would ask again that the management review their own forum guidelines and carefully reconsider this thread. The "valuable discussion" can be left largely intact even if they more heavily edit -- or even delete -- posts that run afoul of points #1 (courtesy), #2 (foul language) #3, (inflammatory) #5, (off-topic), and #13 (abuse).

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment

 

I fully appreciate how wonderful it is to be able to pull my phone out of my pocket and see what caches are near me; navigate, find, and log them with little or no pre-planning. I do that a lot -- but if I couldn't, it would be only an inconvenience, not a tragedy.

 

It's good to hear, that you too like to go geocaching just with your cellphone without any pre-planning. If you did it legally so far, you are probably using an IPhone and can understand the request of the WinMo-community for a comparable app for this platform. As you probably know this great app allready exits and all that has to be done is to find a way to make it legal.

 

I agree with you, that not having this app is an inconvienence (and not a tregedy). I still like to go Geocaching with my Garmin 60CSx, when I go out on a planned Tour. But I also learned from this thread, that a lot of Geocachers have nothing else then their WinMO-Cellphones for Geocaching. And what frustrated a lot of them was the fact, that some Mobile platforms (specially the IPhone-platform) seems to get a lot more attention by GC then others.

 

I also agree with you, that some posts didn't have been appropriate in their wording. As I already mentioned, I don't think it's helpfull to use heavy cynism or personal accusations/offenses when you want to reach a common goal. But I'm hoping that you recognized, that the majority of the WinMo-users in this Forum tried to stay calm and fair in their posts. I'm hoping that GC won't put the "blanket of silence" about this subjects and that negotiations between GC and Tom are in progress (like Bryan said) and we'll soon will hear some positive results.

Link to comment
... lot of Geocachers have nothing else then their WinMO-Cellphones for Geocaching. And what frustrated a lot of them was the fact, that some Mobile platforms (specially the IPhone-platform) seems to get a lot more attention by GC then others.
Well, the reason for that is ... sad to say ... that Windows Mobile really is a small part of the smartphone market, and diminishing. Symbian, RIM, and Apple all larger slices of the market. Android is coming up strongly too, while WinMo's share continues to shrink.

 

That makes it unlikely other commercial developers - or GC.com itself - will develop a Geocaching app. So unless you feel like jumping to a more widely used platform*, the best you can hope for is that a talented enthusiast (like Tom) will fix his problems in a way that satisfies Groundspeak's rules.

 

And that is an important distinction: It's GC.com's server, their product, that Tom (or any other 3rd party developer) wants to use. Insisting that GC.com must make special concessions for them is not going to be effective; screaming demands ever more loudly is counter-productive. The more workable approach will be for Tom or others to observe to GC's terms of use, trade marks restrictions, etc.

 

---

* Just think of all those poor disadvantaged Mac users through the years who were told switching to Windows would solve their software availability problems...

:(

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment

My last post in this thread for a while. There is nothing constructive coming out of this lately, even if there has been several posts about keeping it civilized, and lee_rimar, your not helping on keeping this thread calm and civilized, and on the topic, with your provocative comments.

 

thank you.

Edited by tsolt
Link to comment
I have a question for those of you that are using (or have tried) the iPhone application. Is it possible to use it if you are a free member?
No, you have to be a premium member to use it.
Are there restrictions in how much information that is displayed or other such limitations?
No limit on downloded or displayed information, but a few shortcomings that devs hint might be improved in future releases. At the moment it can't handle trackables or let you upload images with your logs.

 

If you're interested, there's a whole separate discussion are for the iPhone app here: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showforum=70

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment
I have a question for those of you that are using (or have tried) the iPhone application. Is it possible to use it if you are a free member?
No, you have to be a premium member to use it.

I am not positively sure that this is true, lee_rimar. I started to use my iPhone long before I got a premium member, and used it with a lot of success. The only limit I can think of, is the possibility to download your PQs directly to the phone.

 

trondkj

Edited by trondkj
Link to comment
I have a question for those of you that are using (or have tried) the iPhone application. Is it possible to use it if you are a free member?
No, you have to be a premium member to use it.
Are there restrictions in how much information that is displayed or other such limitations?
No limit on downloded or displayed information, but a few shortcomings that devs hint might be improved in future releases. At the moment it can't handle trackables or let you upload images with your logs.

 

The friends who introduced us to Geocaching use an Iphone. Its all they have as they dont even have sat-nav. They ARE NOT premium members, and can access the full gpx information. So the iPhone app works even for basic members, just as ZZZ does, the main difference is iPhone needs to be paid for, wheras ZZZ is free.

 

I myself use ZZZ and love the app, I have paid for premium membership and always did, I just hope that there is a resolution soon, and I'm hoping that the app is made available, even if it needs to be be paid for...it is better value than the iPhone app, even if it is more expensive.

Link to comment

---

* Just think of all those poor disadvantaged Mac users through the years who were told switching to Windows would solve their software availability problems...

:(

 

Great! I'll stop griping when Parallels is available for Windows Mobile to allow us to run iPhone apps, the way Mac users were able to virtualize Windows and run apps for that platform!

 

In the meantime, Windows Mobile is still in use on *millions of smartphones*. Just because the iPhone / Blackberry are selling well does not suddenly mean the Windows Mobile users went away. The smartphone market has EXPLODED over the last few years and most of the conversion has been from candybar phones to smartphones, not Microsoft Mobile to iPhone.

 

A good number of us are still in our various telephone contracts, and frankly my next phone will be a Windows Mobile 7 "Media" device.

Link to comment

... So the iPhone app works even for basic members, just as ZZZ does, the main difference is iPhone needs to be paid for, wheras ZZZ is free...

ZZZ may have been free in the past when it was scraping geocache data from the website, but if it wants to go "legit" and use the Geocaching API then there is going to be a cost for that. Some Win-mo people here have already said that they would be willing & happy to pay a small $ for this feature, but I'm guessing there are a LOT more Win-mo users who are going to be quite ticked off if their once-free-app is now going to cost them something.. depending on Groundspeaks outcome of discussions with this Tom guy.. I would suppose the cost will be the same as it is for the iPhone API.

Link to comment
I started to use my iPhone long before I got a premium member, and used it with a lot of success. The only limit I can think of, is the possibility to download your PQs directly to the phone.
That's interesting. I'll have to try it with my wife's non-premium account to see what works and what doesn't -- thanks.

 

Edit to add: Yep, you're right. I can log out, my wife can log in, and she can see nearby caches. AND -- pocket queries I had loaded/saved previously are still visible. Not sure how or if I'll ever exploit that feature, but it's good to know. Thanks again!

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment
* Just think of all those poor disadvantaged Mac users through the years who were told switching to Windows would solve their software availability problems...
Great! I'll stop griping when Parallels is available for Windows Mobile to allow us to run iPhone apps, the way Mac users were able to virtualize Windows and run apps for that platform!
I meant that footnote to be tongue in cheek, but I can see how some might think it was more foot in mouth. Actually, Mac users have "suffered" for years in pretty much the same way (<10% of the personal computer market), and sometimes you still get a level of indignant zealotry over similar lack of support.
In the meantime, Windows Mobile is still in use on *millions of smartphones*.
That's a really good point. But some of the other questions GC (or any potential developer) has to ask are:

 

1) How many geocachers are Windows Mobile users?

2) How many would pay for an app?

3) As GC already built a huge business without WinMo, (a) how many potential customers do they gain by explicitly supporting an app for it? And (B) how many do they lose by not supporting it?

4) How easy would it be to (a) develop and (B) market the application?

 

I'm guessing Groundspeak asked questions 1/2/3 more than once, and always thought the numbers too small. And while Tom's app answers 4(a) -- it's possible to do; it perhaps diminishes 4(B) because he gives it away for free.

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment
I would suppose the cost will be the same as it is for the iPhone API.
Not sure about that -- GC.com's business arrangements are not open to me, but I'm pretty sure the iPhone apps were developed BY Groundspeak, not licensing the API to an outside source. When you buy the app online, the seller is listed as Groundspeak, not Josh Lytle.

 

Apart from the iPhone app, the "trusted partners" list who have direct access to the API seems to be a pretty exclusive club. Trimble, Garmin, DeLorme, maybe Lowrance (not sure about that one). Try emailing contact@geocaching.com or asking in the website forum who the trusted partners are or how to become one -- you might have to wait a while for a definitive answer.

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment

If/When I put out a cache it's my money that gets me the container. It's my effort to make it into a cache and load it with loot. It's my time I go out and place it. And again it's my time and money to maintenance the cache. The database that GC.com provides could easily be paid for by adds.

 

To put this into perspective. GC should be paying you for the coordinates that run their site. GC should make their money....so should everyone that has a cache out there though.

 

I'm fundamentally opposed to charging for geocaching, it's not right that so many contribute and so few make a living off it.

Link to comment

That's a really good point. But some of the other questions GC (or any potential developer) has to ask are:

 

1) How many geocachers are Windows Mobile users?

2) How many would pay for an app?

3) As GC already built a huge business without WinMo, (a) how many potential customers do they gain by explicitly supporting an app for it? And (:( how many do they lose by not supporting it?

4) How easy would it be to (a) develop and (:huh: market the application?

 

I'm guessing Groundspeak asked questions 1/2/3 more than once, and always thought the numbers too small. And while Tom's app answers 4(a) -- it's possible to do; it perhaps diminishes 4(B) because he gives it away for free.

 

1) just search the owners of mobiles .. as an example http://www.geocaching.com/reviews/gps_htc

- EG HTC Touch Diamond (1416 Owned) / HTC Kaiser (1220 Owned) / etc .. I would bet that most of these are still running the WM .. don't remember who else (not just HTC) makeing WM devices, but I bet there are also some

2) I would ... don't know about others

3) sometimes people take out friends, and they starts to like it (got few of those) and some them decide to pay .. if you cut of these folks, they got no one to take out ..

4) can't you just negotiate with the developers of already existing apps? with the freeware apps it should be easier to negotiate as the authors are already doing it for free :mellow:

Link to comment

Apart from the iPhone app, the "trusted partners" list who have direct access to the API seems to be a pretty exclusive club. Trimble, Garmin, DeLorme, maybe Lowrance (not sure about that one). Try emailing contact@geocaching.com or asking in the website forum who the trusted partners are or how to become one -- you might have to wait a while for a definitive answer.

 

We already learned in posts #57, #59 and #60 what Groundspeak understands under "trusted partner" (= paying distributors).

 

@ Lee_rimar:

You say "... that Windows Mobile really is a small part of the smartphone market, and diminishing."

 

Well if I have a look at the actual marketshare for the whole year 2009 (worldwide / not US-market alone) for mobile-platforms I get another impression:

 

Symbian: 38%

Windows Mobile: 15%

RIM (Blackberry): 15%

Iphone: 13%

Android: 6%

 

But it seems to me, that the latest discussions in this forum are leading a bit "off topic" - so I will step back and wait for the results between Bryan (the GC legal counseler) and Tom (the developer of the app for the WinMo-platform). Hopefully we'll soon hear about some positive results.

Edited by fastcatcher
Link to comment
if I have a look at the actual marketshare for the whole year 2009 (worldwide / not US-market alone) for mobile-platforms I get another impression:

 

Symbian: 38%

Windows Mobile: 15%

RIM (Blackberry): 15%

Iphone: 13%

Android: 6%

Can you let me know the URL/source for those numbers? There are MANY citations and figures available online, and the ones I keep finding put both RIM and Apple ahead of WinMo worldwide, since at least the middle of 2009. And I haven't seen any placing Android with that high a number either -- that would be remarkable market penetration for something that hasn't been around very long.

 

But it seems to me, that the latest discussions in this forum are leading a bit "off topic"
Really? I would think that market shares are one of the MOST on-topic things you can look at when disucssing the viability of adding or changing product support. Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment
just search the owners of mobiles .. as an example http://www.geocaching.com/reviews/gps_htc

- EG HTC Touch Diamond (1416 Owned) / HTC Kaiser (1220 Owned) / etc .. I would bet that most of these are still running the WM .. don't remember who else (not just HTC) makeing WM devices, but I bet there are also some

Yup, I often look through the review section for those numbers. The more different makes/models there are, the longer it takes to figure out the total numbers. But I don't doubt the total number of WinMo devices owned by geocachers is in the thousands or maybe even tens of thousands.

 

Even so, the top HTC model listed, the Dream, is an Android device -- not WinMo.

 

And the Apple page of the review section shows over 28000 iPhones owned by geocachcers -- and that includes over 9000 of the ORIGINAL iPhone that didn't even include a real GPS. Groundspeak wasn't just being an "Apple fanboy" when they made their iPhone app, they're just following the money.

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment
I'm fundamentally opposed to charging for geocaching
No problem there, basic membership is free. Premium memberonly pays for a few website "extras" -- like pocket queries, which serious cachers find indispensible. There are something under three million user IDs registered at Geocaching.com, but only a fraction of those are paying customers.
If/When I put out a cache it's my money that gets me the container. ... it's not right that so many contribute and so few make a living off it.
How much do you figure you personally spend, on average, on each cache you've placed? I wonder if folks actually spend more on placing and maintaining caches than Groundspeak spends on maintaining servers and delivering cahce information to their users? Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment
... what Wikipedia is showing....
... is sales in a given quarter. Which isn't the same thing as how many users (legacy and current models) there are at any given time.

 

What would be more important to Groundspeak-- and they can get the numbers themselves -- is how many users of each device, browser, and OS access their system. That would weigh more heavily than any other market share numbers. You or I can go on to GC.com device reviews and try to add up user's self-reported numbers, but all Groundspeak has to do is look at their logs to see what's hitting their servers. I'm 100% sure they HAVE those numbers, even if they don't choose to share them in this forum.

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment
... what Wikipedia is showing....
... is sales in a given quarter. Which isn't the same thing as how many users (legacy and current models) there are at any given time.

 

What would be more important to Groundspeak-- and they can get the numbers themselves -- is how many users of each device, browser, and OS access their system. That would weigh more heavily than any other market share numbers. You or I can go on to GC.com device reviews and try to add up user's self-reported numbers, but all Groundspeak has to do is look at their logs to see what's hitting their servers. I'm 100% sure they HAVE those numbers, even if they don't choose to share them in this forum.

The bad thing is that these numbers a very skewed, because viewing the website from a mobile device is, how shall we say, less than optimal.

Currently it is very hard to login on the site when you have a windows-mobile computer

Edited by Kalkendotters
Link to comment

Kalkendotters: I suppose they could always check their logs Tom's app, or wap.geocaching.com, or live.geocaching.com logins; along with the user's self-reported info about what device they own.

 

Did you list your own device(s) in your GC.com profile?

 

Still not a very accurate polling method-

I own a Samsung i760 - it doesn't have a built-in GPS, so why would I list it?

I use it along with my GPSr for paperless caching :mellow:

 

I suspect that more than a few people do something similar with WinMo PDAs

Link to comment
...I own a Samsung i760 - it doesn't have a built-in GPS, so why would I list it?

I use it along with my GPSr for paperless caching :mellow:

The second quoted line answers the rhetorical question of the first.

 

A lot of folks list a PDA in their GC profile, as their paperless caching tool. As mentioned earlier, over 9000 original iPhones are listed, along with about a thousand iPod Touch devices -- and those don't include GPS hardware either.

 

If GC.com doesn't have a way to observe your device, it's not gonna figure in to their count. So put it in your profile; log on to wap.geocaching.com or live.geocaching.com -- do something to say "We Are Here" in a way that can be counted.

 

A few dozen folks posting in this thread won't add up to much; server hits and user profiles might.

Link to comment

If GC.com doesn't have a way to observe your device, it's not gonna figure in to their count. So put it in your profile; log on to wap.geocaching.com or live.geocaching.com -- do something to say "We Are Here" in a way that can be counted.

 

Great idea and suggestion, Lee! And I just did exactly that. I'm using an HTC Ozone as a PDA, but not as a GPS because, well, you know; and added it to my list of devices. Interesting reading through all the reviews there, lots of specific instructions on how to download and install XXXXX.

Link to comment

If GC.com doesn't have a way to observe your device, it's not gonna figure in to their count. So put it in your profile; log on to wap.geocaching.com or live.geocaching.com -- do something to say "We Are Here" in a way that can be counted.

 

Great idea and suggestion, Lee! And I just did exactly that. I'm using an HTC Ozone as a PDA, but not as a GPS because, well, you know; and added it to my list of devices. Interesting reading through all the reviews there, lots of specific instructions on how to download and install XXXXX.

 

The one issue we have is that many WinMo devices are using browsers that pretend to be Opera 9 or Internet Explorer or even Firefox, and a large number of WinMo owners use these browsers. HTC devices default to Opera for example, and it provides a GREAT browsing experience.

 

Of course that means the webserver logs are showing Windows computers hitting them instead of Windows Mobile devices. If you don't use Pocket Internet Explorer, going to wap.geocaching.com isn't going to have a noticable effect. I wonder how XXXXX identifies itself when it scrapes - that's one thing that'll be in the GC.com logs ....

 

I agree people should put their devices in their profiles, but I also agree there is plenty of conversations in the forums about Windows Mobile devices to indicate a significant population here are using the devices. Particularly in the Wherigo section of the forums.

 

The fact that this thread has had 5,893 views in two weeks is another indicator. That, or a few of us in here need to get out caching more....

Link to comment
... that this thread has had 5,893 views in two weeks is another indicator (of interest)
That may not be the best metric either. A lot of the posts in this thread come from only a few noisy folks (including me :)) and anything that gets contentious will draw a crowd. And if you're gonna use post counts as a measure of interest, skip down to the "Android app in testing" thread -- would 5x as many views mean 5x as much interest in Android over WinMo?
... That, or a few of us in here need to get out caching more....
Yeah, that's my plan if it stays sunny today. I have one on my desk, ready to hide. But it's going to a muddy spot and I'd like the trails to dry out a bit before I go... :D Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment

More Windows Phone fun, from WMPoweruser.com (ok obvious bias here)

 

IDC Predicting Strong Windows Mobile growth

 

Of note:

- While Android will see 1000% growth between now and 2009, IDC expects 183% growth in Windows Mobile. Considering how many Android phones are out there and how many Windows Phones are out there, not too shabby.

 

Windows Mobile to have faster adoption in business than RIM in 2010

 

Blackberry devices are going to take a pummelling vs Windows Phones, so more of us that have Smartphones for work will be running around with Windows Phones.

 

This one's kinda a no-brainer though, I fully expected this. Companies want push mail, and (typically) that's to a Microsoft Exchange server. Windows Phones have Activesync built right in. iPhone, Android, WebOS and Nokia can also do this without anything extra while Blackberries have that RIM-tax known as the BES.

 

What gives the Windows Phone a leg up on Android and iPhone is that those devices typically lie to the Exchange server about their encryption status, and that's a big no-no in industries with penalties for data breaches.

 

--

 

What does that have to do with Geocaching?

A lot of people use one device for personal and work. People that want to go caching with a smartphone are going to be using these devices.... which should start showing up in Groundspeak's logs.

 

We may get that official Geocaching app yet if this holds true - and from what I've seen so far the Windows 7 devices are going to be earth shattering good. Windows Mobile 7 is to Windows Phone as Windows 7 is to desktop computing. Microsoft hit the ball out of the park, and we're expecting that with the next Windows Phone.

 

Remember those headlines from 2008 about how Windows was dying because of Vista's foul ball? I believe we'll see the same thing after Mobile World Congress in the next few weeks, and some new optimism on the platform itself.

 

What I do know is that the Windows Phone devices introduced in late 2009 -- the HTC HD2, Touch Pro2 - the Xperia X1, The Samsung Omnia devices -- these are great devices capable of challenging the iPhone and the very best that RIM is making, and the mobile population is beginning to discover this.

Link to comment
... that this thread has had 5,893 views in two weeks is another indicator (of interest)
That may not be the best metric either. A lot of the posts in this thread come from only a few noisy folks (including me :)) and anything that gets contentious will draw a crowd. And if you're gonna use post counts as a measure of interest, skip down to the "Android app in testing" thread -- would 5x as many views mean 5x as much interest in Android over WinMo?
... That, or a few of us in here need to get out caching more....
Yeah, that's my plan if it stays sunny today. I have one on my desk, ready to hide. But it's going to a muddy spot and I'd like the trails to dry out a bit before I go... :D

 

To be fair, the "Official Geocaching app for Android ... in testing" thread has been open two weeks longer and only has 1377 views.

 

The "Best Geocaching app for Android" thread is much larger, but it's also 12 months old (Feb 2009)

 

I don't see it as much as a metric as if it's busy, there's at least a few mobile users kicking around. I'd imagine if I added up all the posts/views the PocketPC/Windows Mobile threads in all the forums, it would be a very big number indeed.

 

But you are right, a proper dataset this does not make

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 14
×
×
  • Create New...