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will there be a decent winmobile app?


tsolt
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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Oh boy, you speak like hardcore member of communist party. Where is your law education from? - North Corea, China or Cuba?

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Oh boy, you speak like hardcore member of communist party. Where is your law education from? - North Corea, China or Cuba?

 

Personal attacks aren't appropriate -

 

Most of us are trying to encourage open dialog regarding this topic. If you have nothing to add, please keep it to yourself. You just make it more difficult for the rest of us.

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Oh boy, you speak like hardcore member of communist party. Where is your law education from? - North Corea, China or Cuba?

 

Personal attacks aren't appropriate -

 

Most of us are trying to encourage open dialog regarding this topic. If you have nothing to add, please keep it to yourself. You just make it more difficult for the rest of us.

 

But they proved by their behaviour (till now) that they won't dialogue.

Edited by Husky Canada
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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Thanks for the update.

I'm totally against the "automated tool" part, but its good to see that Groundspeak is working in a solution with Tom.

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Ooops - Bryan named the evil-program!!! I wonder if this post will soon be edited ;)

 

But seriously: Is this good news?

I think yes. We've got an official comment from GC! GC is willing to meet with Tom to discuss options!

I think that this is not the right time where we should discuss, if Tom's App is an automated tool or an user initiated tool. I take Bryan's comment as a "good-will-sign" and I'm glad that GC showed, that they are still listening to their members.

 

It would be nice if we could be informed about the development of the discussion between GC and Tom, so that there is no need for rumours and wrong interpretation.

 

Agreed-

I too take it as a good-will sign; hopefully by options he didn't mean "cease and desist or else..."

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Thanks for the update.

I'm totally against the "automated tool" part, but its good to see that Groundspeak is working in a solution with Tom.

 

Maybe I did wrongly understand orginal Bryan's post. But to me his lawyer's lingo sounded like threat to xxx application autor.

Edited by Husky Canada
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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Glad to see an official response.

 

I hope you can come to an amicable agreement for everyone.

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WAIT! I HAVE THE RIGHT ANALOGY!

 

BOWLING ALLEYS!

 

Every bowling alley in the country has rules about what kind of shoes you can wear and what kind of balls you can use. There are myriad suppliers of equipment, and bowling alleys are happy to let you use equipment from their supply or bring your own.

 

Now, Tom is an avid bowler with his own special balls. Let's his friend play with them too, and doesn't charge them. Some people (a small number, but a noisy bunch) insist they can't bowl unless they can play with Tom's Balls.

 

Only problem is, Tom's Balls aren't "regulation." They're a have a surface coating that scrapes the lanes a bit. So bowling alleys don't let folks use Tom's Balls, don't let folks advertise them on the bulletin board, and don't write about them in the league newsletter.

 

To the vast majority of bowlers, it's no big deal. Some fans of Tom's Balls though, claim it's EXACTLY like rounding up dissidents and executing them!

 

Does anyone else find the comparison of GC policy to totalitarian regimes past and present to be a bit daft?

 

I was hoping that this discussion about a needed app for the WinMo-platform could continue in an open dialog without any zynism comments or personal attacks, but since you came up with the "Bowling-Alley-Analogy" I just have to say it:

 

BIG LEBOWSKI RULES

 

I'm seriously hoping that the comment of the legal counsel means, that there will be a dialog between Tom and GC, to find a good solution to this situation!!!

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Thank you, if nothing else this confirms that Groundspeak is listening.

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Thanks for the update.

I'm totally against the "automated tool" part, but its good to see that Groundspeak is working in a solution with Tom.

 

Maybe I did wrongly understand orginal Bryan's post. But to me his lawyer's lingo sounded like threat to xxx application autor.

 

Yes, at the beginning it sound like he did.

But I don't think is in their best interest to treat Tom or us.

Lets wait and see the result of their discussion.

Link to comment

I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Thanks for the update.

I'm totally against the "automated tool" part, but its good to see that Groundspeak is working in a solution with Tom.

 

Maybe I did wrongly understand orginal Bryan's post. But to me his lawyer's lingo sounded like threat to xxx application autor.

 

Yes, at the beginning it sound like he did.

But I don't think is in their best interest to treat Tom or us.

Lets wait and see the result of their discussion.

 

I agree - they are talking, discussing. That's two way communication (vs cease and desist which is one way), and that's what most of us were asking for in this thread. I hope the discussions go well for Tom and for our geocaching community

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Good to see an 'official' responce. Hopefully there will be a dialoge, not a cease and desist order.

 

I disagree with both the Trademark issue and the automated tool issue, but that is just my opinion. I do not believe that a user initiated function is considered automated. A scheduled or continual operation could be considered automated, but not a user initiated. And it is not even a user initiated sequence, but a single operation. As for the Trademark, the only think I see is what appears to be a Geocacing.com logo that has been blown appart by a smiling flower. I think that would fall under artistic creativity, and not a trademark infringment. But again, I am not a traidmark lawyer.

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Thanks for the update.

I'm totally against the "automated tool" part, but its good to see that Groundspeak is working in a solution with Tom.

 

Maybe I did wrongly understand orginal Bryan's post. But to me his lawyer's lingo sounded like threat to xxx application autor.

 

Yes, at the beginning it sound like he did.

But I don't think is in their best interest to treat Tom or us.

Lets wait and see the result of their discussion.

 

I agree - they are talking, discussing. That's two way communication (vs cease and desist which is one way), and that's what most of us were asking for in this thread. I hope the discussions go well for Tom and for our geocaching community

 

The cynic in will step aside for a while...

 

Hopefully this is the start of GS paying a bit of attention to it's users and customers, and hopefully they are looking to step in the right direction... which is basically what we all wanted in this thread. Whilst a certain amount of bashing may continue from non winmo users who think we're over-reacting, I think we should all step back for a while and wait for an update. It would be a shame for it all to fall apart now if we were to go too far.

 

Cheers

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Thanks for the update.

I'm totally against the "automated tool" part, but its good to see that Groundspeak is working in a solution with Tom.

 

Maybe I did wrongly understand orginal Bryan's post. But to me his lawyer's lingo sounded like threat to xxx application autor.

 

Yes, at the beginning it sound like he did.

But I don't think is in their best interest to treat Tom or us.

Lets wait and see the result of their discussion.

 

I agree - they are talking, discussing. That's two way communication (vs cease and desist which is one way), and that's what most of us were asking for in this thread. I hope the discussions go well for Tom and for our geocaching community

 

The cynic in will step aside for a while...

 

Hopefully this is the start of GS paying a bit of attention to it's users and customers, and hopefully they are looking to step in the right direction... which is basically what we all wanted in this thread. Whilst a certain amount of bashing may continue from non winmo users who think we're over-reacting, I think we should all step back for a while and wait for an update. It would be a shame for it all to fall apart now if we were to go too far.

 

Cheers

 

 

Agreed!!!

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Bryan,

 

THis is all we have been asking for. Thank you for coming forward.

 

I hope something good will come out of this for us WinMo users.

 

Sincerely,

Craig Haroldson

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In case some of you have totally missed it - there is at least some development work for winmo - the platform is NOT abondoned.

 

http://live.geocaching.com

 

I already tried, but has lots of bugs, a very small number of features and isn't updated since 10/02/2009

 

it"stoo complicated

all the time on-line

my battery won"t last half an hour

 

Let them please try something like gcz

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Bryan,

 

THis is all we have been asking for. Thank you for coming forward.

 

I hope something good will come out of this for us WinMo users.

 

Sincerely,

Craig Haroldson

 

hope they Groundspeak plays ball japans ip laws are quite "open"

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Sounds just like what's asked for in this thread. Discussions instead of silence. Make GCzII a legal application for WinMo and give WinMo users a choice in addition to their GPSr. You probably can afford to pay Tom Hiro a bit as well, and still manage perfetly OK.

 

Please let us now the results of your meeting here ASAP, and PLEASE don't just shut the WinMo door.

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I am Groundpeak's legal counsel and I am responsible for protecting Groundspeak intellectual property (Trademarks, Copyrights, Patents) as well as enforcing the Terms of Use Agreement.

 

The GZCII application is using Groundspeak's registered Trademarks and other intellectual property without consent. The GCZII application is an automated tool that scrapes data from the geocaching.com website without authorization in violation of the Geocaching.com Terms of Use Agreement.

 

At this point, the application developer and I will be meeting shortly to discuss options. Until the issues are resolved between Groundspeak and this developer, we have no interest in allowing the application to be promoted in the Groundspeak discussion forums and we will not be issuing further comments regarding this application.

 

Sounds just like what's asked for in this thread. Discussions instead of silence. Make GCzII a legal application for WinMo and give WinMo users a choice in addition to their GPSr. You probably can afford to pay Tom Hiro a bit as well, and still manage perfetly OK.

 

Please let us now the results of your meeting here ASAP, and PLEASE don't just shut the WinMo door.

Im sure tom is willing to hand out this on a silver platter if gs will play ball . ie , API access. if not well ..

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....

Oh boy, you speak like hardcore member of communist party. Where is your law education from? - North Corea, China or Cuba?

:P:ph34r:

 

I think that really crosses a line......

 

+1

+1

+100

 

Having met Bryan and knowing what a decent guy he is, that was uncalled for. As I read it, he's merely doing his job.

 

I too have sought for a usable WinMo app, having upgraded from my XV6700 to my current Tough Pro 2 simply to abuse the internal GPS. While I admire, often envy iPhone users, I won't be jumping ship anytime soon.

 

If the issue between Tom and Groundspeak is resolved to their liking, though not necessarily to ours, I take Bryan's statement as Groundspeak heard us and I hope will focus some of their attention on developing either a mobile friendly version of their site or a cross-platform app that everyone can use.

Edited by NevadaWolf
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What is wrong with the application is that it scraps the site. When you signed up for an account you agreed to the terms of use, one of which says you will not scrape the site. By using this application you are violating the terms you agreed to. Since this application blatantly violates the terms of use I see no reason Groundspeak should condone, ignore or in any way allow mention or discussion of this application. It is unfortunate the author of the application was not fully honest with his users and point out that using the application is a violation of the terms. But then I understand it is free so I guess you got what you paid for.

 

I absolutely agree. The Application That Shall Not Be Named is easily the best piece of Geocaching software I've ever seen, and the fact that it currently doesn't work is very annoying - but I can't say I'm angry with Groundspeak for wanting to prevent it being named here. They've not prevented it being distributed, and they've not done anything to *deliberately* break it - the only reason it doesn't work at the moment is because it accesses data in a way it shouldn't, and GS don't have any obligation to support software that does that.

 

I can't help but think that WinMo users have shot themselves in the foot massively by squealing to Groundspeak about this, who will probably now clamp down hugely on Tom and his software. If they'd all kept quiet, he'd probably have a fix ready in the next day or two, and it would have snuck under GS's radar.

 

Lee

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BasicGPS isnt good like [reference to unauthorized application removed by moderator]. I often used list of caches near me. BasicGPS doesn't have this.

And obscure live.geocaching.com? Let's have a look how application for Windows Mobile looks on WVGA screen:

 

screenshot11.png

 

Controls are so small, that i can't use stylus nor fingers (i choose BIG screen controls in menu!)! Application is in beta and crashing.

So, i want money back for my premium membership.

 

Whilst I agree that Geocaching Live is nowhere near good enough - I tried using it earlier in the week and was about to throw my TyTN II against the wall in frustration - I get very annoyed with all these people asking for money back.

 

Why? Because GS aren't allowing you to use an application that breaks the TOS? The benefits of premium membership are nothing to do with software, and The Application That Shall Not Be Named works with basic accounts anyway.

 

You're still getting what you agreed to pay for, so stop whining.

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I have been a premium member for over 5 years,and have used different programmes on my WM devices.

XXx is by far the best ,and has been developed by a fellow cacher just like us,for the benefit of other cachers.He has never asked for any payment ,for what must have been hours and hours of hard work,honing and fine tuning what must be the best software available.

I regularly find myself in areas with no PQ loaded ,and XXx has helped me find a lot of caches I would not have found otherwise.It gives me up to date logs ,and all the help I could want for finding and logging caches and trackables.

I know a lot of other cachers in my area who also use this program ,and I for one hope things are sorted out very soon.

 

Absolutely. I think a lot of the screaming, yelling and accusations being thrown around are not going to do anyone any favours, and will turn GS against helping us out here. The solution obviously has to be the user interface and functionality of the Application That Shall Not Be Named, with a legal and agreed data acquisition method. If we can get this sorted, we'll all be happy.

 

At the end of the day, despite my frustration with Tom's app not working, ultimately I can't blame Groundspeak, and I'm not angry with them. Tom wrote the application completely independently of them, and they've never agreed to support it. I think he's obviously known about this, and the illegality of the data acquisition method, for a long time, but has chosen not to tell his users. I admire his work, but I'd have appreciated a bit more honesty from him over this.

 

I doubt it's ever happened, but at least in theory, you could be banned from using the site if you used Tom's app excessively and GS decided to clamp down on it. They'd be perfectly within their rights to do so.

 

Lee

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- You can use live.geocaching.com for immediate access to live data. The interface needs a lot of work, and it has a weird method for logging caches. Doesn't support trackable items but has chat feature. Chat feature is useless as it doesn't filter messages - you get all messages worldwide so good luck contacting a specific cacher. If Groundspeak fixes the UI, and ports the social networking features to the other platforms (iPhone, Android) this could get very interesting indeed.

 

Agreed - Live is a very confusing and not tremendously intuitive app, although I do think it has potential if the bugs are ironed out. I couldn't work out how to log caches at all - can someone tell me how to do it?

 

Lee

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....

Oh boy, you speak like hardcore member of communist party. Where is your law education from? - North Corea, China or Cuba?

:P:ph34r:

 

I think that really crosses a line......

 

Agreed, it's a ridiculous assertion. We may all like The Application That Shall Not Be Named, but at the end of the day, it breaks the rules to which we agreed when we signed up, and I think GS's official line here is actually quite reasonable. They could have attempted to prosecute or sue Tom and prevent the distribution of The Application That Shall Not Be Named, but they've effectively turned a blind eye for some time, and in my mind that's quite reasonable.

 

Try doing something illegal in North Korea, and see what happens. That's an offensive and stupid analogy.

 

Lee

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BasicGPS isnt good like [reference to unauthorized application removed by moderator].

 

 

I wonder if the "unauthorized application" ever does become "authorized" if the moderators are going to go back through the posts and re-insert all the references that they removed?

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BasicGPS isnt good like [reference to unauthorized application removed by moderator].

 

 

I wonder if the "unauthorized application" ever does become "authorized" if the moderators are going to go back through the posts and re-insert all the references that they removed?

 

I doubt it, but does that even remotely matter?

it doesn't

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Whilst I agree that Geocaching Live is nowhere near good enough - I tried using it earlier in the week and was about to throw my TyTN II against the wall in frustration - I get very annoyed with all these people asking for money back.

 

Why? Because GS aren't allowing you to use an application that breaks the TOS? The benefits of premium membership are nothing to do with software, and The Application That Shall Not Be Named works with basic accounts anyway.

 

You're still getting what you agreed to pay for, so stop whining.

 

I know that. But lets say truth: basic free membership is enough for me. I don't need premium. I know that XXXXX breaking TOS. But i think it's better, if i'll use XXXXX application and I pay premium membership as kind of some satisfaction.

 

I often using XXXXX for spontaneous geocaching. Now this is impossible. Yeah i can use WAP. But rewriting GPS coordinates from GPS to input fields in WAP? Or prepare everything before as LOC or GPX files? No thanx.

 

If you could show me application, which will find all geocaches near my actual position and give me possibility to write a log, i will be really happy.

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Whilst I agree that Geocaching Live is nowhere near good enough - I tried using it earlier in the week and was about to throw my TyTN II against the wall in frustration - I get very annoyed with all these people asking for money back.

 

Why? Because GS aren't allowing you to use an application that breaks the TOS? The benefits of premium membership are nothing to do with software, and The Application That Shall Not Be Named works with basic accounts anyway.

 

You're still getting what you agreed to pay for, so stop whining.

 

I know that. But lets say truth: basic free membership is enough for me. I don't need premium. I know that XXXXX breaking TOS. But i think it's better, if i'll use XXXXX application and I pay premium membership as kind of some satisfaction.

 

I often using XXXXX for spontaneous geocaching. Now this is impossible. Yeah i can use WAP. But rewriting GPS coordinates from GPS to input fields in WAP? Or prepare everything before as LOC or GPX files? No thanx.

 

If you could show me application, which will find all geocaches near my actual position and give me possibility to write a log, i will be really happy.

 

That makes no sense at all. You're paying for premium membership, even though you don't use the features, to thank someone else for something that Groundspeak don't endorse, and then want your money back? That's ridiculous.

 

You chose to give them your money, knowing exactly what you were supposed to get, and then got angry when unsupported, unofficial and free software stopped working?!?

 

I want an application with The Un-named App's functionality as well, but I'm not getting angry with Groundspeak for this. The app has broken because of a change in GS's code, but as they don't owe the app's users or developers anything, I don't feel too angry about this - it's just one of those things.

 

Lee

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I can't help but think that WinMo users have shot themselves in the foot massively by squealing to Groundspeak about this, who will probably now clamp down hugely on Tom and his software. If they'd all kept quiet, he'd probably have a fix ready in the next day or two, and it would have snuck under GS's radar.

 

Lee

Thank you for your posts. This quoted bit is the only point where I wanted to clarify.

 

Groundspeak and the moderating team have been aware of the application for many months. I don't enjoy censoring posts, but I've been doing that off and on for nearly a full year regarding this application. It is by no means a new issue. The issue has only come to the forefront recently because the screenscraper broke with the latest website update.

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I can't help but think that WinMo users have shot themselves in the foot massively by squealing to Groundspeak about this, who will probably now clamp down hugely on Tom and his software. If they'd all kept quiet, he'd probably have a fix ready in the next day or two, and it would have snuck under GS's radar.

 

Lee

Thank you for your posts. This quoted bit is the only point where I wanted to clarify.

 

Groundspeak and the moderating team have been aware of the application for many months. I don't enjoy censoring posts, but I've been doing that off and on for nearly a full year regarding this application. It is by no means a new issue. The issue has only come to the forefront recently because the screenscraper broke with the latest website update.

 

And I think this discussion has made it clear, that the WinMo-users don't want to live in illegality forever (or how Primitive Person put it "snuck under GS's radar"). All we are asking for, is to use legally a Geocache-Application like it allready exits for a long time for the IPhone. The App for the WinMo-Platform is already there. Many users think it is even better then the App for the IPhone. All that has to be be done is bringing GC and Tom together to find a solution to make this application legal. This seems to be in progress, which I appreciate very much.

 

Some of the WinMo-users got frustrated, because it took GC so long, to show a sign of good-will to their request. So they've been thinking about to renew their Premium membership (like Primitive Person was thinking about throwing his TyTN II against the wall when trying Geocaching Live) This has nothing to do with whining around or shooting ourselves in the foot!!!

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I want to personally thank Bryan for taking the time to respond to the thread and shed some light on the issue. I have new hope we might get our favorite Geocaching interface back.

 

As for Groundspeak protecting it's intellectual property rights, I have no problem with that what-so-ever. That being said, I have to say that it was a bit confusing for me to be directed to and read the Geocaching.com Waypoint License Agreement only to subsequently find-out there was another Terms of Service agreement which seemed to contradict the "DOWNLOADING THE ONLINE DATA" force of the WLA. Having attempted to specialize in intellectual property law in law school and abandon the idea, I will admit I am no expert.

 

As a paying member I took it at face value that I was using the data for personal use, and not doing anything wrong using Tom's WM app. I suppose we were all lucky to have the site upgrade alert us to Groundspeak's legal claim.

 

I wish the Groundspeak team luck in the future. I will not be renewing my membership since it does not give me what I want. If the Geocaching live app could be stabilized, I would stay on, but without that other, more fulfilling app, the experience is tantamount to going back to a banana seat.

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If you could show me application, which will find all geocaches near my actual position and give me possibility to write a log, i will be really happy.

For a really basic Windows Mobile find nearby caches, with link to log, give this a go:

http://www.dna-software.co.uk/geo/NearbyCaches12.CAB

Discussed at:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=207818&hl=

 

Yes, it's very basic.

Yes, I wrote it.

Yes, it's free.

Yes, data transferred is absolutely minimal.

Yes, Groundspeak have kindly given me permission to distribute it.

 

David

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Thanks for the software d-dixon, I'm sure it will be useful to many people.

 

I know many people are like me in that they have no data plan or a limited data plan. I would need winmo geocaching app allows me to download new caches from home or an open wifi spot without the need to carry around a laptop.

 

I like certain apps because they allow me to download the caches onto the phone, but it doesn't require any data during the "hunt"

 

I hope we can get something similar in the future.

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The only reason I'm a premium member is because I have used the banned application, and if this app doesn't work u can forget about me continuing to pay for it. O and by the way the GPS on my HTC Diamond is unbelievable accurate, and as long as you only check the screen to see if you on course the battery life is just fine.

 

AND THE BIGGEST best point is spontaneous geocaching when I need to kill some time.

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Also since my phone is my only geocaching devise I will not be able to return the trackables I have until the app or something similar start working
You don't own a computer?

 

I log -most- of my finds in the field from my phone, but if I ever need to edit a log later or drop a tracackable I just do it from my computer at home.

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You don't own a computer?

 

I log -most- of my finds in the field from my phone, but if I ever need to edit a log later or drop a tracackable I just do it from my computer at home.

 

No... the only gps device I own is my cell phone, so I have no way off finding a cach to put them in

Edited by Schwarttzy
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You don't own a computer?

 

I log -most- of my finds in the field from my phone, but if I ever need to edit a log later or drop a tracackable I just do it from my computer at home.

 

No... the only gps device I own is my cell phone, so I have no way off finding a cach to put them in

That is just hurting other cachers that have no influence on this decision. :P

 

Drop them in a cache you have already found. :ph34r:

 

I had to do this when my GPSr basemap was corrupted. Another cacher helped me out and my GPSr works fine again. The trackables went on their merry way. :rolleyes:

Edited by wyleone
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I guess I still don't understand. You haven't logged a cache since end of September. Have you been holding bugs fior that long? Or have you been finding/taking them but not logging them?

 

Does your GPS work at all apart from using Tom's program? Couldn't you just preload some coords by other means and go caching?

Edited by lee_rimar
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Geo-caching is something my daughter and I was introduced to and have

Come to enjoy right after I purchased my WinMo TouchPro II phone but the current

zoo like environment that has resulted due to the fact that my phone is not an

Iphone has me question what the long term solution is that will keep my

Interest up in this new sport we have found? I hoping for the best! :P

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Quickly,

 

I like where the topic is going. Brians mention that they are speaking with Tom Hiro directly is great. I hope they approach him with the idea of a "mutally beneficial partnership" rather than a "Cease and desist stealing our service" attitude.

 

Groundspeak should just adopt Tom Hiro's unmentionable app. Why?

  • Tom is not charging a penny for his amazing app!
  • It is the best of it's kind!
  • It puts Groundspeak's service into the hands of more users.

That is a goal that will benefit everyone and hurt no one. There should not be an agrument here, there should be HOPE from all parties that the right relationships will be built.

 

P.S. The analogy mentioned by Brad_W is absurd!! We are not trying to "promote" a "competitors" service with a big sign when we use GZC II. We are ONLY trying to access a service in our preferred device, a service that we love enough to PAY FOR because it gives us a hobby we enjoy. In your analogy, that would be equal to every Home Depot having a policy to be wheel-chair INaccessible. Your disabled customers want to come in and shop in your store, but you aren't letting them in the front door because of their method of locomotion! They get mad at you, and end up shopping at the other big box store .. even though they are more expensive and their products suck- at least they let their customers in the front door.

 

Edited by moderator to correct the analogy author's name from Bryan to Brad_W.

Edited by Brad_W
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Ok, after much reading I figured it out. Toms app is parsing urls for information available in gpx files. Groundspeak wants you to pay for a premium membership to get this information to your device and so Toms app is undercutting Groundspeak. If Tom and Groundspeak come to an agreement it will affect his program in one of two ways. It will continue to be free but will be much much more basic. Or it will check for a premium membership first. Also since the urls change it's likely the program will be rewriten to use GPX files. All of this assuming Tom is ok with this kinda work.

 

I switched to Android a while back and I miss Tom's program...I wish Android had something this comprehensive.....preferably at Tom's price.

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You don't own a computer?

 

I log -most- of my finds in the field from my phone, but if I ever need to edit a log later or drop a tracackable I just do it from my computer at home.

 

No... the only gps device I own is my cell phone, so I have no way off finding a cach to put them in

That is just hurting other cachers that have no influence on this decision. :(

 

Drop them in a cache you have already found. :P

 

I had to do this when my GPSr basemap was corrupted. Another cacher helped me out and my GPSr works fine again. The trackables went on their merry way. :D

 

If you must know, I had a death in the family requiring me to go to California at moments notice to help take care of the kids for a while and didn't get back until December and there has been snow on the ground for the past two months, So I could go hit up some local caches but I have never been a fan of leaving footprints leading right up to a cache. Sorry if it seem as though I was trying to ruin the sport, but I had plans of putting the track-ables in a particular spot, but now I'm out of luck for putting them in the caches I want to.

Edited by Schwarttzy
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