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I certainly do understand all the reasons behind not soliciting, but I must say that it really is too bad that, that thread has gone the direction that has gone. Groundspeak provides a service yes, but it's us the cachers that are out there spending the time and money to hide 971K+ caches, not Groundspeak. We as the players are the ones that make the game what it is. But that's the whole point. When I started caching just over 3 years ago, I was naive enough to believe that the caching community was a good and decent group of people, and a lot of them are, but unfortunately the harsh truth reared its ugly face; I found that geocachers are not an exclusive group of good people, it's just a group of people, good and bad, my mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him. Could he have worded what he was asking for in a better way? Absolutely he could have, but I've always been taught to ask for help when I needed it. I know quite a few cachers in my area that will replace log books and even cache containers when they need maintenance and they do it because they want to and because its about the game and it's about the whole caching community. They never ask for reimbursement from the cache owner, they just do it. Helping to maintain other people's caches only helps the game. Soliciting aside, it's really is too bad that being kind to other people in this world is such a difficult and terrible thing for some people to do. I guess that's why the words 'hate' and 'war' exist.

Edited by Team Idasam
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**facepalm**

 

You've missed the point entirely...

 

The point was that he asked for help, but in doing so violated one of the more important guidelines. Had he have asked for help outside of his cache pages, he likely would have received it. Instead, he used his cache page to solicit donations, a Groundspeak official called him on it, and then he got bent out shape when we all took Groundspeak's side.

 

I forget who it was who said this, but it was absolutely correct - This is Groundspeak's sandbox, and if we want to play here, we have to follow their rules.

Edited by Taoiseach
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I certainly do understand all the reasons behind not soliciting, but I must say that it really is too bad that, that thread has gone the direction that has gone. Groundspeak provides a service yes, but it's us the cachers that are out there spending the time and money to hide 971K+ caches, not Groundspeak. We as the players are the ones that make the game what it is. But that's the whole point. When I started caching just over 3 years ago, I was naive enough to believe that the caching community was a good and decent group of people, and a lot of them are, but unfortunately the harsh truth reared its ugly face; I found that geocachers are not an exclusive group of good people, it's just a group of people, good and bad. My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him. Could he have worded what he was asking for in a better way? Absolutely he could have, but I've always been taught to ask for help when I needed it. I know quite a few cachers in my area that will replace log books and even cache containers when they need maintenance and they do it because they want to and because its about the game and it's about the whole caching community. They never ask for reimbursement from the cache owner, they just do it. Helping to maintain other people's caches only helps the game. Soliciting aside, it's really is too bad that being kind to other people in this world is such a difficult and terrible thing for some people to do. I guess that's why the words 'hate' and 'war' exist.

 

This is ridiculous. He didn't ask for "help," he asked for money. He didn't ask his local cachers to help him, he asked them to give him stuff. He's not asking for anyone to occasionally fix a cache or replace a logbook, he's looking for long-term financial support for his caching hobby because he feels that the caching community owes it to him.

 

A quick glance at the Maryland forum will show you that there are plenty of enthusiastic, helpful Maryland cachers who would happily take over responsibility for his caches without a second thought.

 

Groundspeak's guidelines are there for a reason. Without the rules against soliticing, the game would quickly be overrun with caches for businesses, caches for charity, and caches for personal agendas. Letting one person break the rules because he has a sob story isn't fair to the geocaching community as a whole.

 

Nobody is forcing anyone to play the game or place caches. If it's a financial burden to place caches, don't. Anyone who gives a cacher grief for "not giving back" is a jerk. I place caches because I want to, not because I want to be a martyr to the game.

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I certainly do understand all the reasons behind not soliciting, but I must say that it really is too bad that, that thread has gone the direction that has gone. Groundspeak provides a service yes, but it's us the cachers that are out there spending the time and money to hide 971K+ caches, not Groundspeak. We as the players are the ones that make the game what it is. But that's the whole point. When I started caching just over 3 years ago, I was naive enough to believe that the caching community was a good and decent group of people, and a lot of them are, but unfortunately the harsh truth reared its ugly face; I found that geocachers are not an exclusive group of good people, it's just a group of people, good and bad. My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him. Could he have worded what he was asking for in a better way? Absolutely he could have, but I've always been taught to ask for help when I needed it. I know quite a few cachers in my area that will replace log books and even cache containers when they need maintenance and they do it because they want to and because its about the game and it's about the whole caching community. They never ask for reimbursement from the cache owner, they just do it. Helping to maintain other people's caches only helps the game. Soliciting aside, it's really is too bad that being kind to other people in this world is such a difficult and terrible thing for some people to do. I guess that's why the words 'hate' and 'war' exist.

 

All Groundspeak does is LIST caches.

They get to decide what they will and won't list.

 

True, without the geocachers (and their money) Groundspeak might not exist but that's not the point. Without Groundspeak, or some other listing service, geocaching would likely not exist as it does.

 

It's a symbiotic relationship. The biggest difference though is Groundspeak rakes in the dollars but the cachers rake in all the fun.

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Was he asking for this stuff to be a con-artist, or because he really needed help with these items?

 

That's irrelevant. It was against the guidelines AND the TOU for him to put the request on his cache pages, and, as has been mentioned NUMEROUS times, he always had the option of asking other cachers to adopt the caches. Asking for money was inappropriate and misguided, at best.

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Big difference in asking for a little community help for maintenance runs and asking for monetary donations.

 

Especially when you consider he was asking for funds to replace whole caches. Anything that NEEDS that much frequent total replacement sounds like it may have other issues as well.

 

A very good friend once bought me over $150 in goceries when I was down on my luck a bit about 25 years ago. She did it because she saw a need and cared enough to help out. I didn't ask for it or money or anything else. She saw a need and fulfilled it. Most every cacher I have ever met has been known for such random acts of kindness. It just wouldn't have been the same if I had gone to her and asked her to fill up my cupboards.

 

 

 

BTW - its nice to see her smiling face every morning for nearly 15 years now. I love you Lisa!!

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Was he asking for this stuff to be a con-artist, or because he really needed help with these items?

 

 

Thats a good question, isn't it?

 

I looked at his pages and they all spoke of hardship, both health and financial. And each active cache was asking for "help", specifically money.

 

It's almost like he's a professional victim.

 

But, hey, those guys on the side of the offramps probably would really work for food.

Edited by bittsen
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Was he asking for this stuff to be a con-artist, or because he really needed help with these items?

 

I don't for a second doubt that he was on the level. He still went about asking for help in the wrong way

 

I would have to agree with you completely.

 

Was he asking for this stuff to be a con-artist, or because he really needed help with these items?

 

That's irrelevant. It was against the guidelines AND the TOU for him to put the request on his cache pages, and, as has been mentioned NUMEROUS times, he always had the option of asking other cachers to adopt the caches. Asking for money was inappropriate and misguided, at best.

 

Yes, I see what you're saying and yes it was inappropriate. All I'm saying, is can't someone help him maintain his caches for a while without him having to give them up? I would hate to have to adopt out my caches after the time and effort I put into them. I would if I really had to, to keep them alive. I would hope that someone would help me out though.

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A very good friend once bought me over $150 in goceries when I was down on my luck a bit about 25 years ago. She did it because she saw a need and cared enough to help out. I didn't ask for it or money or anything else. She saw a need and fulfilled it. Most every cacher I have ever met has been known for such random acts of kindness. It just wouldn't have been the same if I had gone to her and asked her to fill up my cupboards.

 

 

 

BTW - its nice to see her smiling face every morning for nearly 15 years now. I love you Lisa!!

 

I'm a student - Twice cachers have helped me out. The first time, bluelamb03 bought me a meal (albeit on the condition that I name my first born son after him <_< )

 

The second time, narcissa bought me some groceries when I was really poor at the end of the semester - A move I'm still appreciative of. Much like you StarBrand, I've been enjoying seeing her smiling face every morning (er... afternoon) as well :P Milujem t'a!

 

Neither time did I ask, but both times I was extremely grateful

Edited by Taoiseach
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My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him.

 

It is your mistake. He was asking for help in a manner that is expressly against the guidelines. He wasn't "attacked". People explained to him why he was wrong. That's all.

 

You're taking that out of context. "My mistake" was believing that all geocachers are good people.

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Was he asking for this stuff to be a con-artist, or because he really needed help with these items?

 

 

Thats a good question, isn't it?

 

I looked at his pages and they all spoke of hardship, both health and financial. And each active cache was asking for "help", specifically money.

 

It's almost like he's a professional victim.

 

But, hey, those guys on the side of the offramps probably would really work for food.

 

True, true. I see where you're coming from.

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My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him.

 

It is your mistake. He was asking for help in a manner that is expressly against the guidelines. He wasn't "attacked". People explained to him why he was wrong. That's all.

 

You're taking that out of context. "My mistake" was believing that all geocachers are good people.

 

The few that aren't are a slim, slim minority - There are very few (no?) groups that contain no bad people...

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es, I see what you're saying and yes it was inappropriate. All I'm saying, is can't someone help him maintain his caches for a while without him having to give them up? I would hate to have to adopt out my caches after the time and effort I put into them. I would if I really had to, to keep them alive. I would hope that someone would help me out though.

 

His entire argument didn't ring true. $25+ a month to maintain 12 caches? Give me a break.

 

I've rarely seen a thread with such unanimous opinion on one side. Even the usual contrarians thought he was wrong.

 

Sometimes when you are wrong, you are wrong and he was.

Edited by briansnat
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A very good friend once bought me over $150 in goceries when I was down on my luck a bit about 25 years ago. She did it because she saw a need and cared enough to help out. I didn't ask for it or money or anything else. She saw a need and fulfilled it. Most every cacher I have ever met has been known for such random acts of kindness. It just wouldn't have been the same if I had gone to her and asked her to fill up my cupboards.

 

BTW - its nice to see her smiling face every morning for nearly 15 years now. I love you Lisa!!

 

I'm a student - Twice cachers have helped me out. The first time, bluelamb03 bought me a meal (albeit on the condition that I name my first born son after him <_< )

 

The second time, narcissa bought me some groceries when I was really poor at the end of the semester - A move I'm still appreciative of. Much like you StarBrand, I've been enjoying seeing her smiling face every morning (er... afternoon) as well :P Milujem t'a!

 

Neither time did I ask, but both times I was extremely grateful

 

Alright you guys! Stop it right now!!

 

You are bringing a proverbial tear to my proverbial eye.

 

GAD, all this nice talk is making me nauseous

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QUOTE(briansnat @ Jan 12 2010, 09:47 PM) * QUOTE My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him. It is your mistake. He was asking for help in a manner that is expressly against the guidelines. He wasn't "attacked". People explained to him why he was wrong. That's all. You're taking that out of context. "My mistake" was believing that all geocachers are good people

 

Not all geocachers are good people. However a sport that depends solely on the generosity and decency of the participants tends to draw good people.

Edited by briansnat
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My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him.

 

It is your mistake. He was asking for help in a manner that is expressly against the guidelines. He wasn't "attacked". People explained to him why he was wrong. That's all.

 

It sure sounded like an attack. A gang attack no less. Harsh words heaped on his head en masse. A far cry from folks "just explaining why he was wrong." I don't agree with the guy's position, but I do feel sorry for him after reading all that.

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Yes, I see what you're saying and yes it was inappropriate. All I'm saying, is can't someone help him maintain his caches for a while without him having to give them up? I would hate to have to adopt out my caches after the time and effort I put into them. I would if I really had to, to keep them alive. I would hope that someone would help me out though.

 

Maybe if he asked for that sort of help, instead of asking for money, people would be willing to help. As it stands, he's been acting like an entitled jerk and alienating the people who might be willing to do maintenance on a temporary basis.

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Well, I was at work when the thread broke out. It's in bad taste to ask for money, but if he needs help I'll send him cache containers, no problem. I have a few ammo cans and a bunch of lock'n'locks in the trunk of my car, right now waiting for spring..

 

And when he declines your offer, think of all those full burger bags and bottles of water at the freeway offramp.

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The second time, narcissa bought me some groceries when I was really poor at the end of the semester - A move I'm still appreciative of. Much like you StarBrand, I've been enjoying seeing her smiling face every morning (er... afternoon) as well <_< Milujem t'a!

 

Neither time did I ask, but both times I was extremely grateful

 

Shhhhh! You're ruining my reputation by painting me here as a "nice" person.

 

:P

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Was he asking for this stuff to be a con-artist, or because he really needed help with these items?

 

I don't for a second doubt that he was on the level. He still went about asking for help in the wrong way

 

I would have to agree with you completely.

 

Was he asking for this stuff to be a con-artist, or because he really needed help with these items?

 

That's irrelevant. It was against the guidelines AND the TOU for him to put the request on his cache pages, and, as has been mentioned NUMEROUS times, he always had the option of asking other cachers to adopt the caches. Asking for money was inappropriate and misguided, at best.

 

Yes, I see what you're saying and yes it was inappropriate. All I'm saying, is can't someone help him maintain his caches for a while without him having to give them up? I would hate to have to adopt out my caches after the time and effort I put into them. I would if I really had to, to keep them alive. I would hope that someone would help me out though.

 

You are free to send him all the money and cache items you wish, he shouldn't be hard to find.

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It's really simple if you think about it.

 

Had he simply asked someone to swap out the logbook, check the cache's condition, etc in a note, not the description, then nothing would have come of it. Even though that's still technically soliciting, it's quite an acceptable practice in most caching circles.

 

However, asking for monetary donations goes against acceptable caching protocol and is so blatantly against the TOU AND the guidelines that once he got called on it by Jessica, he should have simply complied with her request and been about his business.

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My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him.

 

It is your mistake. He was asking for help in a manner that is expressly against the guidelines. He wasn't "attacked". People explained to him why he was wrong. That's all.

 

It sure sounded like an attack. A gang attack no less. Harsh words heaped on his head en masse. A far cry from folks "just explaining why he was wrong." I don't agree with the guy's position, but I do feel sorry for him after reading all that.

There are no gang attacks here. Nobody gets together to discuss how to "attack" a poster. We are all individuals and we all have our own opinions. Most of the time there are a wide range of opinions on a given subject. That is evident in many threads. In this case the general opinion was not in favor of the position of the OP. Nobody met in a bar ahead of time to plan an attack. Sometimes when you are wrong, you are wrong. Period.

Edited by briansnat
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Well, I was at work when the thread broke out. It's in bad taste to ask for money, but if he needs help I'll send him cache containers, no problem. I have a few ammo cans and a bunch of lock'n'locks in the trunk of my car, right now waiting for spring..

 

And when he declines your offer, think of all those full burger bags and bottles of water at the freeway offramp.

Well we'll see. I just sent him a message.

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My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him.

 

It is your mistake. He was asking for help in a manner that is expressly against the guidelines. He wasn't "attacked". People explained to him why he was wrong. That's all.

 

You're taking that out of context. "My mistake" was believing that all geocachers are good people.

 

Geocachers are people. and there are always good and bad in any group of people. Mostly Ive seen good cachers, but Ive encountered a few iffy ones too.

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My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him.

 

It is your mistake. He was asking for help in a manner that is expressly against the guidelines. He wasn't "attacked". People explained to him why he was wrong. That's all.

 

It sure sounded like an attack. A gang attack no less. Harsh words heaped on his head en masse. A far cry from folks "just explaining why he was wrong." I don't agree with the guy's position, but I do feel sorry for him after reading all that.

 

Sometimes the internet can be a pretty rough place. After reading through some usenet flame fests, this was a really mild discussion. The guy violated the rules, was called on it and then came here asking why he was wrong. When it was pointed out where he was wrong he refused to accept the communities input. But I must admit this is the first thread in a while that everyone was on the same side of the fence and the OP was on the other.

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Well I PM'd mtn-man after he lock the thread to let him know that I had been composing something along the line of what the OP of this thread said.

 

n3prz came here a bit angry because he was told his cache page violated the TOU and it wasn't clear to him why. The "forum mob" thought the reason was obvious so they jump on him instead of trying to find out just what the reason he felt he need to ask for help with his cache and proposing ways he could do so withing the guidelines. That got him angrier so he used language that violated the forum guidelines and that just gave the "mob" all the better reason to attack. The moderators had to lock the thread as it spiraled out of control.

 

In the meantime someone from Groundspeak must have clarified to n3prz what the issue was as I just got a notification that he revised the cache page to comply with the guideline. This cache was on my watchlist from long before this discussion as I had DNF'd it on a trip to Washington several years ago.

 

Cache owners often ask for help maintaining their caches. "Would the next finder bring a pencil as the last finder reports there is none in the cache?" "I can't get to the cache for a few days, so I would appreciate the next finder replacing the log." , "I plan to replace the cache soon but if you are going to the area, feel free to bring a replacement." (The puritans will hate the last one, but it does happen). In each of these cases the cache owner has requested that someone "donate" to the cache. Hey, we even have cachers who dare to request that people trade items of equal or greater value than what they take.

 

I don't think that Groundspeak intends to prohibit cache owners from making requests on their cache pages. (Only making it a requirement for logging an online find is prohibited). So it is understandable that n3prz would think that is OK to ask for donations of money to help him maintain his caches.

 

I'm sure the "mob" can easily make the distinction between asking for money and asking for a pencil or greater value trade items. But I can't. If the owner is asking me to donate a pencil or to take something from a cache that has less value than what I leave, he has solicited a donation from me. The only difference may be that one can assume that a request for a pencil or log book means that the cache owner would do the same for someone else's cache. And the request for greater or equal value trades means that the cache owner always trades fairly when they trade at someone else cache. And I guess one would assume that a request for money would likely mean the opposite - that the cache owner would plead poverty and not donate to another cacher who asked for money. Of course this all depends on assumptions. It could be that while he doesn't have money, n3prz is more than willing to return the favor some other way. Perhaps he is skilled a camouflage - he will take two donated containers and return one of them with some cool camouflage? Perhaps he is willing to give up a prized location so someone else can place a cache there? Perhaps he is skilled at HTML and will make your cache page sparkle? I think people were a bit hard on this guy and he responded as he did because nobody cared to listen and try to help.

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Well I PM'd mtn-man after he lock the thread to let him know that I had been composing something along the line of what the OP of this thread said.

 

n3prz came here a bit angry because he was told his cache page violated the TOU and it wasn't clear to him why. The "forum mob" thought the reason was obvious so they jump on him instead of trying to find out just what the reason he felt he need to ask for help with his cache and proposing ways he could do so withing the guidelines. That got him angrier so he used language that violated the forum guidelines and that just gave the "mob" all the better reason to attack. The moderators had to lock the thread as it spiraled out of control.

 

In the meantime someone from Groundspeak must have clarified to n3prz what the issue was as I just got a notification that he revised the cache page to comply with the guideline. This cache was on my watchlist from long before this discussion as I had DNF'd it on a trip to Washington several years ago.

 

Cache owners often ask for help maintaining their caches. "Would the next finder bring a pencil as the last finder reports there is none in the cache?" "I can't get to the cache for a few days, so I would appreciate the next finder replacing the log." , "I plan to replace the cache soon but if you are going to the area, feel free to bring a replacement." (The puritans will hate the last one, but it does happen). In each of these cases the cache owner has requested that someone "donate" to the cache. Hey, we even have cachers who dare to request that people trade items of equal or greater value than what they take.

 

I don't think that Groundspeak intends to prohibit cache owners from making requests on their cache pages. (Only making it a requirement for logging an online find is prohibited). So it is understandable that n3prz would think that is OK to ask for donations of money to help him maintain his caches.

 

I'm sure the "mob" can easily make the distinction between asking for money and asking for a pencil or greater value trade items. But I can't. If the owner is asking me to donate a pencil or to take something from a cache that has less value than what I leave, he has solicited a donation from me. The only difference may be that one can assume that a request for a pencil or log book means that the cache owner would do the same for someone else's cache. And the request for greater or equal value trades means that the cache owner always trades fairly when they trade at someone else cache. And I guess one would assume that a request for money would likely mean the opposite - that the cache owner would plead poverty and not donate to another cacher who asked for money. Of course this all depends on assumptions. It could be that while he doesn't have money, n3prz is more than willing to return the favor some other way. Perhaps he is skilled a camouflage - he will take two donated containers and return one of them with some cool camouflage? Perhaps he is willing to give up a prized location so someone else can place a cache there? Perhaps he is skilled at HTML and will make your cache page sparkle? I think people were a bit hard on this guy and he responded as he did because nobody cared to listen and try to help.

 

The OP walked into the forums with a chip on his shoulder. It wasn't that he wanted to debate, he wanted vindication. When he didn't get it, he went off on personal insults against others and their family.

 

I don't care whether you agree with the issue or not, that guy was NOT acting in the spirit of caching. He wasn't asking for help with his caches, and he wasn't asking for anyone to trade items. He was asking for cold cach to be placed in his caches for him to retrieve.

IMHO, his behavior was deplorable both on the cache pages and in the forums.

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I think people were a bit hard on this guy and he responded as he did because nobody cared to listen and try to help.

Are we reading the same thread?

In his opening post, he insults Groundspeak:

Groundspeak sure is isn't sympathetic to many caches owners these days...

Even after that insult, he got nothing but helpful, friendly replies, to which he responded with more venom:

I guess the bottom line is my follow geocachers don't give a rats [butt] about another cacher.

He gets more helpful replies, to which he responds with more scorn:

Makes me want to make a group: GCFD (D=Devil) and see what the reaction is!

Even then, most of the replies for straight forward, to which he posts:

I guess since I'm poor I don't belong in geocaching anymore...perhaps it's just for the rich folks these days. Perhaps there should be an income requirement when you sign up here.

Even after all that angst, most of the posts were instructional and polite. Yet he still lashes out:

I CAN'T SEEM TO GET YOU GUYS TO UNDERSTAND. ....as I said, but apparently you did not read.... So you are one of those....OK...that's fine... you obvriously don't know what the hell you are talking about or doing... Well good for you....do want a cookie!

Things go downhill from there with his quoting meltdown, and utterly ignoring a Moderator.

Sorry Toz. I'm just not seeing him as a victim here. <_<

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.... "My mistake" was believing that all geocachers are good people.

Why in the world would you believe that?

 

It's beyond naive to think that of any group.

 

The best thing about geocaching is that anyone can play

The worst thing about geocaching is... that anyone can play.

 

There is nothing different about the geocaching community than would be found in any other large group of people.

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.... "My mistake" was believing that all geocachers are good people.

Why in the world would you believe that?

 

It's beyond naive to think that of any group.

 

The best thing about geocaching is that anyone can play

The worst thing about geocaching is... that anyone can play.

 

There is nothing different about the geocaching community than would be found in any other large group of people.

 

Personally I resent the implication that there were people responding to that thread who aren't good people. Nobody's perfect but I would sure like to know who they think are the bad people.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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The "forum mob" thought the reason was obvious so they jump on him instead of trying to find out just what the reason he felt he need to ask for help with his cache and proposing ways he could do so withing the guidelines.

 

Respectfully, you need to reread the thread. Your assessment is incorrect.

 

.... "My mistake" was believing that all geocachers are good people.

Why in the world would you believe that?

 

It's beyond naive to think that of any group.

 

The best thing about geocaching is that anyone can play

The worst thing about geocaching is... that anyone can play.

 

There is nothing different about the geocaching community than would be found in any other large group of people.

 

Personally I resent the implication that there were people responding to that thread who aren't good people. Nobody's perfect but I would sure like to know who they think are the bad people.

 

The statement was "all geocachers are good people", not everyone that posted in that thread are good people.

 

Correctly, the TAR stated that this community is like any other. We have good and bad people. You've been in this hobby long enough to know this is true.

 

We have some really smart people and we have some morons.

 

We have some members that are givers and we have a lot of takers.

 

We have some who like to create and we even have some who love to destroy.

 

Though I would argue that we probably have more positive members than most organizations, we do have a number of members who put the rest of us in a negative light from time to time.

 

The percentage of the total membership posting to this thread or the other thread is very minuscule and therefore you cannot accurately say that just because someone pointed out that geocaching does indeed have bad people in the hobby that it also means bad people were posting in a particular thread.

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Many threads are started by people who get angry when they think they have been singled out by Groundspeak or a reviewer - even when they have not been singled out and are just being asked to follow the same guidelines as everyone else. In their anger they often include ridiculous charges and make inappropriate comments. They will find examples that, in their minds, show that Groundspeak or the reviewers are acting arbitrarily and unfairly even thought these examples will often have nothing to do with the particular issue with their cache.

 

The OP of the other thread certainly behaved badly and continued to do so despite warnings from moderators. I have no problem with the moderators warning the OP and then locking that thread. I suspect that he got a suspension from the forum as well.

 

What I object to is that nobody attempted to understand why the guidelines were misunderstood. CR may reply that he is dumber than a bag of hammers yet he can figure out that he should not ask for donations on his cache page. I pointed out that the "mob" here would have no problem distinguishing asking for money from asking to replace a log or to trade up. Nobody wants to even try to look at the other side and see that a cache owner could just as easily come to the conclusion that asking for money is no different than asking for these other things. Had someone done that, the prior thread could have turned into a discussion of what is reasonable for a cache owner to ask for and perhaps the OP could have been convinced that he should make changes to his cache page. In the end he did make the change. Either he received a satisfactory explanation from a Groundspeak lackey or he decided that it was no longer worth fighting over.

 

This is now a discussion of how the fourm regulars and other should behave the next time someone starts a thread accusing Groundspeak or a reveiwer of unfair treatment. Instead of jumping on the guy, try to explain the rationale for for the guideline and convince the OP of why this applies to his cache. The argument that because the guy came into the forum with a chip on his shoulders is not a justification for ganging up or not being sympathetic.

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The "forum mob" thought the reason was obvious so they jump on him instead of trying to find out just what the reason he felt he need to ask for help with his cache and proposing ways he could do so withing the guidelines.

 

Respectfully, you need to reread the thread. Your assessment is incorrect.

 

 

Exactly. There were all kinds of suggestions of ways he could handle the situation without breaking the guidelines, but he made it quite clear that anything less than a cash bailout was not good enough. If it looked like an attack, it's simply because his behaviour was so abhorrent.

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True Blue-"Personally I resent the implication that there were people responding to that thread who aren't good people. Nobody's perfect but I would sure like to know who they think are the bad people."
The only person who posted on the original thread that was truly offensive and totally out of line was n3prz, the op. His amazingly crude comment just before the thread was mercifully put to sleep was way over the line. He proved to me that not all cachers are nice people.
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...

What I object to is that nobody attempted to understand why the guidelines were misunderstood. CR may reply that he is dumber than a bag of hammers yet he can figure out that he should not ask for donations on his cache page. I pointed out that the "mob" here would have no problem distinguishing asking for money from asking to replace a log or to trade up. Nobody wants to even try to look at the other side and see that a cache owner could just as easily come to the conclusion that asking for money is no different than asking for these other things. Had someone done that, the prior thread could have turned into a discussion of what is reasonable for a cache owner to ask for and perhaps the OP could have been convinced that he should make changes to his cache page. In the end he did make the change. Either he received a satisfactory explanation from a Groundspeak lackey or he decided that it was no longer worth fighting over.

 

This is now a discussion of how the fourm regulars and other should behave the next time someone starts a thread accusing Groundspeak or a reveiwer of unfair treatment. Instead of jumping on the guy, try to explain the rationale for for the guideline and convince the OP of why this applies to his cache. The argument that because the guy came into the forum with a chip on his shoulders is not a justification for ganging up or not being sympathetic.

 

With all due respect, I have to disagree with your assesment.

 

You are trying to equate asking for some cache maintenance assistance with what he actually did which was ask for financial assistance. At a ridiculous rate I might add.

 

Many of us do not see those 2 items as equal in any way. It provoked a strong individual reaction from many. We stated our gut reactions. I for one do not regret in any way my response. The continued overt reactions from the original poster that he had done nothing wrong at all is what fueled the flames.

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True Blue-"Personally I resent the implication that there were people responding to that thread who aren't good people. Nobody's perfect but I would sure like to know who they think are the bad people."
The only person who posted on the original thread that was truly offensive and totally out of line was n3prz, the op. His amazingly crude comment just before the thread was mercifully put to sleep was way over the line. He proved to me that not all cachers are nice people.

 

You got me there. It did seem to me the the OP here made that statement in response to how they thought the other thread had been handled.

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The "forum mob" thought the reason was obvious so they jump on him instead of trying to find out just what the reason he felt he need to ask for help with his cache and proposing ways he could do so withing the guidelines.

 

Forum mob? Why the need to disparage those who replied, many of who tried to be helpful? If half the people backed him up would have it still been a "mob"? What you call a mob I call a consensus.

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I pointed out that the "mob" here would have no problem distinguishing asking for money from asking to replace a log or to trade up. Nobody wants to even try to look at the other side and see that a cache owner could just as easily come to the conclusion that asking for money is no different than asking for these other things. Had someone done that, the prior thread could have turned into a discussion of what is reasonable for a cache owner to ask for and perhaps the OP could have been convinced that he should make changes to his cache page.

 

About the bolder part: The way I read it, that's what happened. And the majority of the replies said that asking for cash was inappropriate, and recomended asking for help instead. That wasn't the sort of answer, or polite discussion, that he wanted.

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I pointed out that the "mob" here would have no problem distinguishing asking for money from asking to replace a log or to trade up. Nobody wants to even try to look at the other side and see that a cache owner could just as easily come to the conclusion that asking for money is no different than asking for these other things. Had someone done that, the prior thread could have turned into a discussion of what is reasonable for a cache owner to ask for and perhaps the OP could have been convinced that he should make changes to his cache page.

 

About the bolder part: The way I read it, that's what happened. And the majority of the replies said that asking for cash was inappropriate, and recomended asking for help instead. That wasn't the sort of answer, or polite discussion, that he wanted.

 

Agreed. Some people post to get advice, others to get support for what they believe. He was the second type, he did not want nor would he accept alternatives or advice, it was his way is right or else. He still does not consider asking for large cash donations on his cache page wrong, and still thinks he deserves to receive anything he asks for.

The blame for his meltdown rest squarely on him, not on those who replied with advice.

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QUOTE(briansnat @ Jan 12 2010, 09:47 PM) * QUOTE My mistake. What n3prz is asking for is help, and everyone begins attacking him. It is your mistake. He was asking for help in a manner that is expressly against the guidelines. He wasn't "attacked". People explained to him why he was wrong. That's all. You're taking that out of context. "My mistake" was believing that all geocachers are good people

 

Not all geocachers are good people. However a sport that depends solely on the generosity and decency of the participants tends to draw good people.

Yeah, you're right about that. I've met some great people while playing this game. Unfortunately there are some real whack jobs out there too. There are a handful pf cachers in my neck of the woods that have caused a lot of people a lot of grief recently.

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Yes, I see what you're saying and yes it was inappropriate. All I'm saying, is can't someone help him maintain his caches for a while without him having to give them up? I would hate to have to adopt out my caches after the time and effort I put into them. I would if I really had to, to keep them alive. I would hope that someone would help me out though.

 

Maybe if he asked for that sort of help, instead of asking for money, people would be willing to help. As it stands, he's been acting like an entitled jerk and alienating the people who might be willing to do maintenance on a temporary basis.

 

Okay, well if that is truly the case, that he's being a total jerk about the whole situation then I would understand everyone's reaction more so.

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