Future of Wherigo

[realhun]

What is your opinion about Wherigo's future?

I'm a bit pessimistic.

Some facts:

1. Wherigo Player is run by only a very few kind of gps/mobile units
   
2. Wherigo Builder's latest release is almost 2 years old (and has many bugs)- it seems to be not developed any more.
   
3. There is no official/useful detailed documentation for Wherigo Builder or lua for Wherigo
   
4. There are still very few Wherigo games, although the whole thing is 2 years old...
   

I would be happy to read some good news from the Groundspeak staff, or just know the reality...

[matejcik]

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=238478

[+Geinponem]

May be Groundspeak is just buzzy with a great Wherigo update :

[Ranger Fox]

I saw that. FYI: they took all three sites down for maintenance. Therefore, it's probably code common to all the sites. For instance, it could be something dealing with users logging into a site.

 

At the time of this posing, only Wherigo.com is back up.

[realhun]

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=238478

 

Hi Matejcik! Your project is very nice, but unfortunately it's not an answer for my fears.

In tha lack of official support, I'm afraid it dies, since no more gps unit will run it.

Of course, openWig could be a good alternative way. However for example i have an Oregon 300, and I'd be happy to use this for Wherigo games, and not a Nokia mobile.

 

What can we know about Earwigo? It seems to be very interesting. If it makes Garmin device compatible playable cartridges, there is still hope...

[+JJG10101]

Dead vs. alive, Groundspeak builder vs. the Earwigo approach... no matter which camp you're in, you gotta admit there hasn't been much buzz surrounding Wherigo. There's been no PR, no official announcements, no games, no contests, no cross-promotion, no social networking, virtually no changes to the Wherigo home page... it's been a quiet couple of years, marketing-wise.

 

My advice to Groundspeak: stop ignoring loyal customers. Take advantage of people's intellect and enthusiasm and start generating, if not "buzz," at least a random spark or two. We're not paid to visit forums or create cartridges, but we do it. Do something, anything(!), to let people know the platform is either moving forward, moving backward, or treading water.

 

A message from the CEO would do wonders. ;-)

 

Just my two cents. Back to your regular programming.

[+sTeamTraen]

In tha lack of official support, I'm afraid it dies, since no more gps unit will run it.

Of course, openWig could be a good alternative way. However for example i have an Oregon 300, and I'd be happy to use this for Wherigo games, and not a Nokia mobile.

If Wherigo has a commercial future, I think that has to be among a group of people who are *not* currently geocachers. I'm not fundamentally a big fan of the Wherigo cache type, as I think it confuses the messages about Wherigo as a brand-new concept which is "Not Geocaching". (That said, I suspect that without that cache type, there would be even fewer cartridges published right now.)

 

For me, the smartphone is the future platform. PDAs of the size we saw 3-4 years ago are pretty much dead (can you even buy a Windows Mobile device that isn't a phone any more?) and handheld GPS devices are too specialised to be mainstream. Hopefully the widespread takeup of GPS-enabled phones by enough people who are prepeared to try real-world games will coincide with some extra marketing impetus from Groundspeak and at least one new "name" platform (iPhone or Android) where there is currently no OpenWiG presence.

 

What can we know about Earwigo? It seems to be very interesting. If it makes Garmin device compatible playable cartridges, there is still hope...

Earwigo is functionally more or less equivalent to the Groundspeak Builder. It has some other nice features, but it basically fits into the Wherigo world at that level. All it really does is build Lua files, and optionally send them to the Groundspeak Web service to compile them. So in that regard, it's no better than the Groundspeak Builder with regard to Garmin devices.

 

The main issue with the Garmin GPS units and Wherigo is that the player software is developed not by Groundspeak, but by Garmin to Groundspeak's specifications. And Garmin has not done the best job, either in terms of features (no sound because no proper hardware, several cartridge functions not implemented) or reliability (memory limitations, tendency to crash). Earwigo doesn't help much there, apart from telling you "this function doesn't work on a Garmin player" when you choose it.

Edited January 13, 2010 by sTeamTraen

[CoyoteRed]

The best thing that Groundspeak can do with the concept is encourage open development and host the games. This would be much like the geocache concept itself. Be thankful they didn't "invent" GPS or any other host of other things that makes geocaching work and is only a hosting site for caches. Otherwise, the hobby would be as much in the toilet as Wherigo.

[+Delta68]

Some UK Wherigo stats:

 

The UK has 30 active Wherigo caches, 4 of which are temp disabled (+ 6 archived)

set by 22 different cachers

 

27 were set in 2008

9 were set in 2009

 

They have had a total of 721 finds between them

Found by 447 different cachers

 

This makes them far rarer than Virtuals!

Would anyone miss them if they disappeared? Probably not!

 

 

 

Mark

Edited January 22, 2010 by Delta68

[+Tequila]

Sadly, I am sure that anyone who didn't have the icon would probably miss them.

 

In Canada, there are 81 Wherigo caches. I own 23 of them.

 

In my general area, the popularity is picking up now that more people have Oregon's and Colorado's. We have 5 developers that I would consider serious about the concept. I have been helping a couple more cachers by either creating a cartridge for them or helping them with code/concepts.

 

I think we need to keep positively pushing the concept. It has tremendous potential. A new builder and player would be nice but most of us have learned to work within the limitations.

 

Personally, I would like to see better cartridge security. Creativity is severely hampered when cheaters can break the cartridge to find the cache location.

[matejcik]

i don't get it. why are you all so bothered by cheaters? i mean, who is the cheater cheating, only themselves, no? and you can tell them to mail you "what the cartridge said" so that you can delete fake finds...

[+Tequila]

i don't get it. why are you all so bothered by cheaters? i mean, who is the cheater cheating, only themselves, no? and you can tell them to mail you "what the cartridge said" so that you can delete fake finds...

 

First, I don't let it bother me as much any more. I just set my cartridge up so they have to find stuff in the field to figure out where the cache is. And I make sure it is at the far end of the hike. No out and back.

 

Second, asking them "what the cartridge said", is pointless. If they can find the cache location in the cartridge, they can also find "what it said".

 

And third, if they sign the log book regardless of whether they played it or not, you cannot delete the log.

 

I didn't mean to hijack the original topic of this thread. I was trying to paint a positive picture of Wherigo because I love them and am working hard to promote them in my area.

[+Delta68]

i don't get it. why are you all so bothered by cheaters? i mean, who is the cheater cheating, only themselves, no?

 

Setting a Wherigo takes A LOT of time and effort; far, far more than any other type of cache.

It seems a bit unfair that we can't even insist that they are done as intended by requesting the log file...

 

 

Mark

[matejcik]

Setting a Wherigo takes A LOT of time and effort; far, far more than any other type of cache.

It seems a bit unfair that we can't even insist that they are done as intended by requesting the log file...

okay, now this is constructive.

 

you have a good point. it would be pretty hard to convincingly fake an entire log file without playing. and if the server could filter duplicates for you, you could easily spot people who copied a log from somebody else.

of course you can request logs by mail, but handling them manually might be a pain. (then again, in many cases it would be pretty hard for the server to validate the log without actually "playing through" with it)

 

(and if a cheater leaves a note in the physical logbook, just bring a pink marker and write "cheater" all over their entry. yay for public defamation )

 

Then again, this is all about geocacher "run run grab points run run" attitude. In my not so humble opinion Wherigo is a completely different game - you should create cache-less cartridges so that people play them and then leave comments along the lines of "hey, that was unbelievably awesome game, thanks for the experience". In this scenario, cheating doesn't even make sense, because there is no "point" to win.

[Ranger Fox]

If there's only one Garmin GPSr between three cachers and the cartridge takes an hour to complete, I'd rather not require each cacher submit a unique log file of their own run-through.

[+sTeamTraen]

Then again, this is all about geocacher "run run grab points run run" attitude. In my not so humble opinion Wherigo is a completely different game - you should create cache-less cartridges so that people play them and then leave comments along the lines of "hey, that was unbelievably awesome game, thanks for the experience". In this scenario, cheating doesn't even make sense, because there is no "point" to win.

If Wherigo is to have a substantial future, it has to be able to make its way in the world without a geocache at the end of the cartridge. Right now we're about to remove the little stabiliser wheels from the bike. but Dad (in the form of the Wherigo cache icon) is holding on firmly.

Edited January 24, 2010 by sTeamTraen

[+Delta68]

I have to admit that if we didn't have an Oregon or PDA we'd have probably done exactly the same as this

 

 

We have set three Wherigos.

Our first is solvable with a bit of detective work (ie. google and notepad) but our second are third are uncrackable

[+TheHarvesters]

I've been working on a cache adventure for a little while now, and think it is much better suited to a Wherigo than a multi/puzzle cache type (a lot of boxes!)

 

However, am I likely to get more than 5 vistors if I set a Wherigo? like a previous poster said - there is a lot of effort required for this.

[+Tequila]

I've been working on a cache adventure for a little while now, and think it is much better suited to a Wherigo than a multi/puzzle cache type (a lot of boxes!)

 

However, am I likely to get more than 5 vistors if I set a Wherigo? like a previous poster said - there is a lot of effort required for this.

 

One of the distinct advantages of a Wherigo is the fact you can set up a complex multi without having to place a bunch of containers. These has two benefits. First, you don't have to maintain those stages. Two, you don't saturate a trail for one cache. We have a great 13 stage multi near my house but it consumed the entire two kilometre trail. If it was a Wherigo, it would only need the final cache location.

 

I am finding locally that more and more people are buying Garmin Oregon's and Colorado's. The interest in Wherigo's is increasing now as more people can play them.

[+Delta68]

However, am I likely to get more than 5 vistors if I set a Wherigo?

 

Don't set one hoping to get lots of visits - it won't!

 

Set it to prove to yourself that you can

and if you want to own a relatively rare icon

 

I set one of ours is as bicycle only.

This has restricted the number of potential visitors even more but those who have done it have really enjoyed it!

 

I'm not really bothered if it doesn't get done too often.

I enjoyed the challenge of setting it...

 

 

Mark

[+TheHarvesters]

thanks for the comments. Getting back more specifically to the OP topic, is it the case that in a high saturation area such as... Hampshire! Wherigo is the way forward. It is one of the reasons I've been looking into it.

 

The techie options appeal to me too, so the challenge as you put it, coupled with the greater placement opportunities will probably mean that my idea is completed as a Wherigo cache, i.e. rather than Wherigo only.

 

It does look like fun (I shall lookinto the Spiderman one nearest my home), and will encourage others at our local meet to take a look of course. I'll be sure to post back here too, in case any of you want to make the trip.

Edited January 25, 2010 by TheHarvesters

[Ranger Fox]

Wherigo, in my opinion, has its future in storytelling and location-aware activities.

 

Geocaching-wise, it is not possible to create an immerse story with a mystery cache. I've played around with the possibility of telling a complex story as part of a mystery cache and couldn't pull it off as I wanted (so I never placed the series of mystery caches that it required). Also, it's a lot easier to make one physical Wherigo site on a cache-rich trail than it is to create a multi, the maintenance issues aside. (Of course, it's much easier to force people to do a twelve mile hike without the cache owner doing so.)

 

As far as away from caching, Wherigo does have a future. I've always said you could make a tour guide cartridge of a battlefield--something that gives you more information at what you're looking at.

 

All that aside, I've also felt the interface itself was too restrictive to create something truly special. The four option menu system of where you are, what you see, what you have, and what to do is nice for simple cartridges or a way for beginners to learn the system. I would prefer in the future, though, to be able to design my own UI, menus, and screens and run that on the Wherigo engine. This would give me true creative freedom to present my story or activity how I want in a format and style that best suits it.

 

Just like geocaching, Wherigo has to wait until the number of capable devices and cartridges rises to a certain tipping point. The first few years of geocaching, caches were hard to come by because not many people had a GPSr and not many caches were in any area. Had I seen my own area in 2001, I don't know if I would have bothered at the time.

 

So, now, we're back to Groundspeak's dilemma: which way to take Wherigo and how to deal with it to bring it to that tipping point.

 

If Groundspeak tells me anything I can pass on to the community, I will. If I haven't heard anything at all by May or June, I'll call them up and ask.

[+sTeamTraen]

Just like geocaching, Wherigo has to wait until the number of capable devices and cartridges rises to a certain tipping point.

I think that we're getting there for the number of capable devices, but mostly because of the availability of OpenWiG. And the advantage, compared to the ramping-up of Geocaching, is that nobody needs to make a conscious decision to buy one.

 

The downside which I see is that Wherigo had a higher barrier to entry for developers than, say, GPS Mission. That's even more the case if Wherigo's ambition is to do the kind of cool stuff which you mentioned - which is a great aim, but further increases the investment which each development represents.

 

This reminds me a bit of the Mac vs PC debate circa 1984. I remember Steve Wozniak being interviewed and saying "we could not understand why people and companies would buy an IBM PC or clone with a CLI-based OS and no network when they could have a Mac with a GUI and networking built-in". In the end it came down to /1/ the price differential and /2/ Lotus 1-2-3 (whose authors took the brave decision to make their program compatible, not with DOS, but with IBM's hardware, for speed and memory considerations). It would be a shame if the world ended up with a de facto standard for "GPS adventure gaming" which was the equivalent of MS-DOS.

Edited January 26, 2010 by sTeamTraen

[CoyoteRed]

Personally, I think it might be the ambition of the do-everything platform that is stifling it. Keeping it simple and make it rock solid on various platforms should be the first priority.

 

Something that will run on multiple platforms will get the concept out to more folks. I can't play because I don't own a compatible device. The PPC I own is VGA and the "solution" isn't.

 

Keep the cartridges very simple. Make it pretty much a virtual stage multi or paperless mystery, and get the concept into the wild! Then you could start adding different things with "pro" versions.

 

Probably the simplest cartridge concept would basically be a route. You start at the start and are pointed in a certain direction. You reach the stage and the arrow swings into a different direction. Kind of like "find the coordinates tag" type of multi.

 

The next step up would be "answer the question" at each stage before you can proceed. Still linear like above, but you have to solve a simple puzzle to proceed.

 

You get a number of these simple, multi-platform cartridges into the wild and you get a lot more interest.

 

Then as things progress you can have the spy-game style of play where if the player is taking too long "The Director" calls and prompts you via video to move faster, the villain throws a curve, or the hostage pleads for you to hurry.

 

The concept is great, but too ambitious too quickly and on way too few platforms. What's weird is Wherigo is PPC-based while the official geocaching app is iPhone. What gives? How many devices do I need to buy?

[+sTeamTraen]

The concept is great, but too ambitious too quickly and on way too few platforms. What's weird is Wherigo is PPC-based while the official geocaching app is iPhone. What gives? How many devices do I need to buy?

What happened was "time". When Wherigo was launched, the iPhone was 6 months old, which means that when Wherigo was being developed, the iPhone was unknown (and the first versions didn't have a GPS anyway).

 

Groundspeak decided to release a Geocaching app for the iPhone before they released Wherigo for the iPhone (yes, I know that they haven't done the second of those [yet], but this statement will remain true even if they were to do so tomorrow). I think that's a pretty sensible choice. Many new iPhone users will discover Geocaching for the first time now that they have "accidentally" acquired a GPS receiver with their phone.

 

The alternative, per the logic of your question, would have been to develop, late in 2008, a Geocaching app for PPC, which would probably have been a poor choice for several reasons:

- PPCs don't all come with GPS as standard, and anyone buying a GPS add-on may well not be a new recruit.

- Two words: Battery life.

- No app store. Apple takes care of all the distribution for the iPhone app for a couple of bucks a pop.

- Let's face it, PDAs are dead.

 

Now, should Groundspeak develop, buy, or ignore the whole idea of a Geocaching app for Windows Mobile? That's a whole nother debate, on which I am pleased to have no opinion whatsoever.

 

Groundspeak is not the only small company having to make tough choices about their mobile platform strategy in a rapidly-shifting market. What will be the Win32 of the phone world? Maybe, if Web browsing turns out to be the killer app and everything else is marginal, it will be the mobile version of Opera or some other browser...

[+charlenni]

@Ranger Fox: Now it is end of June and we didn't see any statement from Groundspeak. If you talk to them, than say, that they are killing the project!

 

Why? Each time some person downloads the builder, (s)he has the same problems. The tougher guys go further, they overcome the bugs of the builder. But how long would they need to complete their first cartridge? Weeks of frustration. Do Groundspeak think, such a person would create a second one? No. They kill all other projects in that direction. Each day, they wait, there are more peoples, which say no to creating a Wherigo.

 

What should Groundspeak do?

 

1. Kill the link on Wherigo.com to the builder. Today. It has to much bugs to make beginners happy. Integrate a link to Earwigo or Urwigo (or both) at the same place. Activate the login for Earwigo with the normal Groundspeak user name, so each customer of Groundspeak could test the platform.

2. Create the posibillity to download some cartridges for users to learn how it works.

3. Redesign the Wherigo.com: show Wherigo on a map (like geocaches), editable text for description and so on. Create a platform for providing cartridges.

4. Make the windows player as open source. You didn't earn money with it, but someone else could use and develope it further.

5. Say good bye to garmin. Only garmin has access to the source code an they don't update their player. Each newbie had to learn which functions work on colorado, which work on oregon and so on.

6. Support the openwig project or other open projects to create a platform, which could transfered very easy to other devices. I personally think, that most people would have in the next years a smartphone with gps. You didn't need a mobile internet conection, but you could have. We could use the media formats of this devices (more image size, more and better sound, videos, maps to navigate). And they are much faster. The new Wherigo player for android looks after 2 month already better than the garmin player after 2 years. If garmin want users to play wherigos on their devices, than they should create bugfree players.

7. Make the compiler open source or publish the format of the file formats.

8. Think about a possibility for playing cartridges on the iPhone or iPod (compiler to create an app from a cartridge).

 

Have i forgotten something?

 

There are peoples out there, who seeming to have time and interest to develop the Wherigo project. Groundspeak didn't have either of them. They block all projects for Wherigo with doing nothing. They could create the best platform to hosting wherigos. Wherigos for geocaches, wherigos for historical town walk, wherigos for open air museums, wherigos for games.

 

I like the possibilities of Wherigo, but i didn't like the politics of Groundspeak. It will kill Wherigo in the while the next year.

 

Best regards

Charlenni

[+geodarts]

1. Kill the link on Wherigo.com to the builder. Today. It has to much bugs to make beginners happy.

 

I would not want them to do this. After I created my first Wherigo, I looked at the alternative builders but it was easier for me to use the Wherigo.com builder, bugs and all. Sometimes you want to go home with the one who brought you to the dance.

[matejcik]

I would not want them to do this. After I created my first Wherigo, I looked at the alternative builders but it was easier for me to use the Wherigo.com builder, bugs and all. Sometimes you want to go home with the one who brought you to the dance.

except that in this case that person is a really lousy dancer and a sloppy kisser and you'd be better of if somebody else took you to the dance in the first place ;e))

[+Tequila]

Or you just cut your losses and walked home from the dance alone.

[matejcik]

well some of us are solo dancers ;e)

[Ranger Fox]

If you talk to them, than say, that they are killing the project!

I haven't said it this way yet (more like, "Garmin is going to kill Wherigo if something isn't done about that Player"). So long as I can find an appropriate time during GW8, I can do this face to face. If anyone else is attending GW8, you can find me at most of the Seattle area's events starting this Saturday. If you find a Lackey during GW8, respectfully encourage them to talk to the company about continuing Wherigo development. Perhaps the community as a whole can prod Groundspeak more effectively than one person (me). Just remember to be polite!

 

1. Kill the link on Wherigo.com to the builder. Today. It has to much bugs to make beginners happy. Integrate a link to Earwigo or Urwigo (or both) at the same place. Activate the login for Earwigo with the normal Groundspeak user name, so each customer of Groundspeak could test the platform.

I believe the link should take them to a page with a choice between Builder applications. A user will naturally gravitate towards a recently-updated version (Urwigo or Earwigo).

 

2. Create the possibility to download some cartridges for users to learn how it works.

This was one thing I wanted to work on with the tutorial videos. At the very least, people should be able to search the Wherigo site for open source cartridges. The problem we're not addressing here, though, is people learn in different ways: experimentation and hands-on (most of your programmers fall into this category), visually (documentation or step-by-step videos), and/or aurally. What is offered needs to cater towards all learning styles.

 

3. Redesign the Wherigo.com: show Wherigo on a map (like geocaches), editable text for description and so on. Create a platform for providing cartridges.

Sensible. Personally, I'd like to create a web service for all Internet-connected Players out there. The Player could detect the player's location and show cartridges in the area, perhaps even on a map. (Note my use of capitalization.)

 

4. Make the windows player as open source. You didn't earn money with it, but someone else could use and develop it further.

I've wanted to ask this because I want to see how they created it. The topic has been brought up before, but always in the presence of more important topics at the time. History has shown I should only harp on Groundspeak for one thing at a time.

 

5. Say good bye to garmin. Only garmin has access to the source code an they don't update their player. Each newbie had to learn which functions work on colorado, which work on oregon and so on.

Garmin is doing a good job self-destructing as it is! But, seriously, I wonder about this. There is no doubt in my mind we do need to get Wherigo off the GPS receivers in the future (or have more capable ones). However, I attribute the Garmin Colorado to Wherigo's early acceptance. That I can't deny. Bugs or not, I believe the majority of North Americans who play Wherigo cartridges still use a Garmin GPSr. I do not have numbers to back up this claim; this is just what I have seen from pictures and talking with people.

 

Not all areas, though, are as tech-savvy. My own area, for instance, predominately uses Garmin GPS receivers and a smaller percentage use smart phones. I would rather wait for the cell phone environment to continue to mature (in the US--Europe is farther ahead) and more Players become available before suggesting all ties be cut.

 

There's also the possibility of playing a Wherigo cartridge out of cell phone range. Even in the future, cartridge design must still take this into account.

 

6. Support the openwig project or other open projects to create a platform, which could transferred very easy to other devices. I personally think, that most people would have in the next years a smartphone with gps. You didn't need a mobile internet connection, but you could have. We could use the media formats of this devices (more image size, more and better sound, videos, maps to navigate). And they are much faster. The new Wherigo player for android looks after 2 month already better than the garmin player after 2 years. If garmin want users to play wherigos on their devices, than they should create bugfree players.

As I mentioned, I see Wherigo going exclusively towards smart phones. If a GPS receiver's Player could be updated just as easily, I wouldn't mind a Player on there. I can't say anything new concerning Garmin.

 

7. Make the compiler open source or publish the format of the file formats.

I would like to see the specs released to the third-party developers only up to the point they need. I'd like Groundspeak to be in charge of the specs, have one official Player (on the iPhone, I guess), and coordinate new feature releases in private with the officially-recognized Player and Builder developers.

 

8. Think about a possibility for playing cartridges on the iPhone or iPod (compiler to create an app from a cartridge).

I can see this in the future. How far, I have not heard.

 

-----------

 

For a post like this, I would like to remind you these opinions are my own and are not that of Groundspeak or the Lackeys. However, stating them gives you an idea of my point of view and what I find important at the moment. Disagreement is perfectly acceptable and welcome. We are, after all, refining our view of the future--and that's always a team effort. I would hope having a clear view of the community's desires would benefit/guide Groundspeak (and the third-party developers) when development resumes.

 

In the meantime, we can make our own dance steps and music. Don't be a wall flower!

[+cache4pat]

@Ranger Fox: Now it is end of June and we didn't see any statement from Groundspeak. If you talk to them, than say, that they are killing the project!

 

...........

 

What should Groundspeak do?

 

1. Kill the link on Wherigo.com to the builder. ........

2. Create the posibillity to download some cartridges for users .....

3. Redesign the Wherigo.com: ........

4. Make the windows player as open source. .........

5. Say good bye to garmin. ..........

6. Support the openwig project or other open projects to create a platform, ..........

7. Make the compiler open source or publish the format ........

8. Think about a possibility for playing cartridges on the iPhone or iPod ........

 

Have i forgotten something? (See My comments about these below.)

 

.............

 

Great summary 'charlenni' .

 

As a committed newbie to the dance; I am still running the learning curve (as time permits with Urwigo). I fully agree that those, who started this great extension to geocaching and beyond appeared to have dropped an important ball and let us down.

 

As for your specific points, I am mostly on-board with your points #2, #3, #4, #6, #7, and #8; while I have reservations about #1 and #5.... echoing mulvaney's point, which I think speaks well for those with in-hand hardware, modest budgets, and less programmer experience. ie: Leave no one behind.

 

An effort to fix existing bugs in the original builder would service 'newie' Wherigo developers, who just want to get their feet wet and test the waters. Newbies paid for admission too. There almost seems an outstanding moral duty to act here, by those who started this dream and then locked away critical system keys, as they got busy with other things.

 

The matured Earwigo and emerging Urwigo need to be recognized for impressive contributions; and made more accessible as links for advanced developers (Along with any other development tools that may come along via open source action).

 

Also, there needs to be an effort to have ONE logging point, with cartridge access; mapping; query; and all the other great tools of geocaching.com. As long as there are multiple websites to access, for things as simple as logging-in recognition; it will be hard to get the majority of cachers on-board. All those happy faces draw us back )

 

Let's hope we don't have another Avro Arrow; Commodore Amiga; or GM EV1 technology in death throws. Customers count, and Wherigo is loved and respected by users; but I fear it faces a similar demise due to originator indifference &/or lack of effective support. You can't create critical mass with broken tools.

 

Cheers,

cache4pat

[Ranger Fox]

I talked at length with many people in Groundspeak, privately, during GW8. The time was limited, however.

 

I made sure to mention open source. I said the community was more interested in open sourcing the emulator with its Player than the Builder, though there is quite a demand for both. The response was the emulator and Player might be a bit iffy to release because some of it is proprietary code by another company (I think they purchased a license to use a library). At any rate, they have been informed of the community's interest (and I made sure to emphasize it).

 

As for the web site, I was most concerned with getting in touch with someone who could actually do something about the bugs. I did get the runaround at first. However, it seems Moun10bike is the best contact for submitting bugs. I told him of the logging bug (note to self: send a follow-up email). I will begin to use him as a contact for bugs. We'll see how it goes. Of course, I understand the bug reports must go through the process. However, I also expect show-stoppers like the logging bug to be fixed ex post haste.

 

One last thing about the web site: Wherigo is Wherigo and geocaching is geocaching. The two sites will not be combined. Sure, it's possible to view waymarks on the gc.com Google Map through my Greasemonkey script, but even those two sites are and will be separate. Wherigo should go its own way in the future, when it can stand apart from geocaching.

 

No, Garmin was not mentioned. I think it's clear the problems that have resulted.

 

I did not touch on the compiler.

 

If you talk to certain Lackies, there is a ton of push from inside the company to get on the Wherigo bandwagon. One of the original J2B2 (Wherigo Media Group) is left and she wants to continue Wherigo. The mobile application developers, especially one guy who has created a few Nintendo DS games, wants to continue Wherigo development. I know Bryan does and even Jeremy. They'll continue when they're ready. I'd rather share facts than ideas. I did, though, want to share my observations on individuals' interest in Wherigo.

 

Yes, I learned more than this and I need to think over the rest. Part of it is to be kept confidential, per Groundspeak's request. It doesn't directly involve Wherigo and, even if it did, I don't have enough information to present a coherent picture, anyway.

 

That's all I can post for now; I have to leave for somewhere in a few minutes.

[+tango501]

my 2 cents worth

 

as a fairly new cartridge writer I wanted to make a splash with a new one

so a friend helped teach me the builder then we found URWIGO that seems

to work pretty good

 

we published GC2AY6Y 2 days prior to GW8 and so far has been hit/played

400+ times

I am currently working on another one that will be a Fremont tour, very near

Groundspeak (WP2) that should bring some more attention to Wherigo

 

I am all for this but I see the smartphone market as the one to go to vice

Garmin etc for players

 

WhereYouGo works great on my Droid