What's with all of the rules?

January 12, 2010

I just started caching over the weekend and am attempting to place my first cache but i keep running into all these dadgum rules. First i placed my cache in a park a good walk from another existing cache, only to find out that it's too close to the other. So i go get it today and move it way back into the woods along a creek. Then the reviewer says that i need to submit a permit number from the park, so i go to the provided link to fill out the questions and i am amazed at the list of rules. For instance the cache has to be with 25 feet of a paved trail and no ammo boxes are allowed. So looks like i'll be footing it back out tomorrow through the snow to move it yet again.

I thought that this hobby would be way cooler than it is. I am kind of a thrill junky and was hoping to go on these big hikes and kayaking across lakes. But it seems that all the caches around here are within 50 feet of the parking lot. Is there another geocache website for thrill seekers? I want the kind of caches that are in a cave 50 feet up a cliff side.

Edited January 12, 2010 by DStubb

January 12, 2010

I just started caching over the weekend and am attempting to place my first cache but i keep running into all these dadgum rules. First i placed my cache in a park a good walk from another existing cache, only to find out that it's too close to the other. So i go get it today and move it way back into the woods along a creek. Then the reviewer says that i need to submit a permit number from the park, so i go to the provided link to fill out the questions and i am amazed at the list of rules. For instance the cache has to be with 25 feet of a paved trail and no ammo boxes are allowed. So looks like i'll be footing it back out tomorrow through the snow to move it yet again.

I thought that this hobby would be way cooler than it is. I am kind of a thrill junky and was hoping to go on these big hikes and kayaking across lakes. But it seems that all the caches around here are within 50 feet of the parking lot. Is there another geocache website for thrill seekers? I want the kind of caches that are in a cave 50 feet up a cliff side.

The rules are in place to help keep Geocaching on the up and up with the communities they are placed in, and to, in my mind, keep it a legit activity. There are tons of challenging caches out there, just take a look at the difficulty and terrain ratings. 4 and up should suit you well. Other than that, I'll defer to the others on here...

January 12, 2010

I just started caching over the weekend and am attempting to place my first cache but i keep running into all these dadgum rules. First i placed my cache in a park a good walk from another existing cache, only to find out that it's too close to the other. So i go get it today and move it way back into the woods along a creek. Then the reviewer says that i need to submit a permit number from the park, so i go to the provided link to fill out the questions and i am amazed at the list of rules. For instance the cache has to be with 25 feet of a paved trail and no ammo boxes are allowed. So looks like i'll be footing it back out tomorrow through the snow to move it yet again.

I thought that this hobby would be way cooler than it is. I am kind of a thrill junky and was hoping to go on these big hikes and kayaking across lakes. But it seems that all the caches around here are within 50 feet of the parking lot. Is there another geocache website for thrill seekers? I want the kind of caches that are in a cave 50 feet up a cliff side.

The extra rules are from the park people, who do not want to be inundated with "there's a bomb in the park" calls.

Congrats on just starting the hobby. You will enjoy it if you let go some of the angst and look for the ones that thrill you. As you can see, caches are rated in terms of difficulty and terrain, so go for the higher terrain ones. Become a premium member and customize your pocket queries to filter out the ones that you don't like. There are plenty of exciting caches out there - you just gotta put in some time to find them.

In our area, Vinnie and Sue put out some great caches called Psycho Urban caches. Right now the advanced search feature does not want to work for me, or I would provide links.

Check it out, join some local groups, and get excited!! And ... welcome to the addiction!

January 12, 2010

Ohhhhhhhhh, just saw you are from my old stomping grounds, Cincinnati!!! How exciting!! It's where I was introduced to geocaching.

Check out this group:

Ohio/Kentucky/Indiana Cachers - OKIC

There are a GREAT bunch of people in this group who would love nothing more to help you along in your journey...

3.5k · January 12, 2010

Drive down to Kentucky and try Cav Scout's cliff series. All of them require climbing gear and some gumption. Ther'es plenty of tough, fun caches out here if you take a little time to search.

January 12, 2010

DITTO to all of the above.

All games need to have rules or its no fun, it wouldnt be a game with out rules.

If we didnt have rules there would be chaos, caches everywhere, no fun to find them if they are too close together.

Not to mention false bomb threats. Moldy food and ruined containers due to wildlife.

We would have innapropriate cache contents, not family friendly.

We would have abandoned uncared for caches. we would have dangerous cache contents.

some people think fireworks make great swag.

ETC, ETC, ETC and so on..........

Gotta have rules to keep an even field, not everyone sees things the same way. If we let everyone do as they see fit, it wont be pretty or fun.

January 12, 2010

Yeah i guess i need to venture out further from my core area. What concerns me is that after placing my cache today, i used the difficulty rating calculator and it rated mine at a 4 out of five terrain rating. Mine is just a 1/4 mile quick hike across a little creek and over some small hills, there is no trail but it is very simple to get to. If i rated it, i would give it a 2 out of 5. I think that a 1-10 rating would help define things a little better.

January 12, 2010

DITTO to all of the above.

All games need to have rules or its no fun, it wouldnt be a game with out rules.

If we didnt have rules there would be chaos, caches everywhere, no fun to find them if they are too close together.

Not to mention false bomb threats. Moldy food and ruined containers due to wildlife.

We would have innapropriate cache contents, not family friendly.

We would have abandoned uncared for caches. we would have dangerous cache contents.

some people think fireworks make great swag.

ETC, ETC, ETC and so on..........

Gotta have rules to keep an even field, not everyone sees things the same way. If we let everyone do as they see fit, it wont be pretty or fun.

i understand most of the rules but i guess the biggest rule that bothered me is that the cache has to be within 25 feet of a paved trail in this park. Seems you would get more muggles discovering what they may think of as a bomb. Let us get off the beaten trail and have a little fun, and i understand that it's the parks rule and not geocaching.com's rule. I'm also not knocking any of you or the hobby in any way.

19k · January 12, 2010

As with most rules (and laws) they have evolved because of previously experienced problems. They are not arbitrary. When you submitted your cache, you checked a box that stated that you had read the guidelines. In those guidelines is the proximity (or, distance from other caches) rule. If you had carefully read those guidelines ahead of time, you may have been able to avoid the first problem. You also need to be 528 feet minimum from the final (and any interim) location of multi caches and mystery caches. With only two finds so far under your belt, I'd be willing to bet that you don't really even understand yet what that means.

The 2nd problem you ran into sounds like a permission issue. The guidelines state that you need adequate permission. That may not always mean explicit permission, but it would appear that the park that you hid your cache in does require explicit permission. That is something that you need to research first.

Another part of hiding a cache that I'll bet you haven't considered yet is cache maintenance. Just like getting a dog or having a kid... hiding a cache is a long-term responsibility. They get wet. They get muggled. They get reported as missing even though they really are there. They get blown up by bomb squads. YOU will have to deal with those situations, and more. Are you sure you're ready for that?

This activity IS as fun as it sounds to you. But slow down and get a little more experience before you try to contribute by hiding a cache. That is by no means an imperative, but it is a strong recommendation.

And read those guidelines. Carefully.

19k · January 12, 2010

[i understand most of the rules but i guess the biggest rule that bothered me is that the cache has to be within 25 feet of a paved trail in this park. Seems you would get more muggles discovering what they may think of as a bomb. Let us get off the beaten trail and have a little fun, and i understand that it's the parks rule and not geocaching.com's rule. I'm also not knocking any of you or the hobby in any way.

That would be a rule implemented by the park that you chose to hide your cache in, and not a rule imposed by geocaching.com. Many of us do disagree with that sort of "distance from the trail" rule, for many reasons, but that is a rule made up by your park management, and you will need to take that up with them.

4.8k · January 12, 2010

Yeah i guess i need to venture out further from my core area. What concerns me is that after placing my cache today, i used the difficulty rating calculator and it rated mine at a 4 out of five terrain rating. Mine is just a 1/4 mile quick hike across a little creek and over some small hills, there is no trail but it is very simple to get to. If i rated it, i would give it a 2 out of 5. I think that a 1-10 rating would help define things a little better.

You know, of course, that the thrill junkies are in the minority. Having said that, the activity adequately represents the target audience. Since caches are hidden by the members, and searched by the members, there is something for everyone.

The one thing Groundspeak does is list caches. They don't place them, nor do they actually police them. They have rules for listing on their site, nothing else.

What that means is that you are free to place whatever you want, wherever you want, and take the responsibility for that placement BUT just because you place it doesn't mean Groundspeak will list it.

Basically you are running into listing rules, nothing more. To complain about the rules would be along the same line as going into McDonalds and complaining that they don't serve Filet Mignon. It's just how McDonalds, and Groundspeak, does business. Both are the most successful in their respective industry.

If you want thrill hides, they are around. You just have to learn how to search for them.

And, if you want to do something in a park that is against their rules, take it up with the park manager. It's not Groundspeaks fault that the park has rules. Groundspeak is just being kind and relaying the rules (that apply to geocaching) of the park to you.

January 12, 2010

I'm also not knocking any of you or the hobby in any way.

Absolutely no offense taken, never thought you were knocking the hobby.

It sounds like these are the parks requirements mostly, try different places to set a cache not every park will have the same problem. Parks can be difficult because they have there own rules and preferences which you have to submit to in addition to geocaching.com rules

Try someplace outside of a park.

38.2k · January 12, 2010

Yeah i guess i need to venture out further from my core area. What concerns me is that after placing my cache today, i used the difficulty rating calculator and it rated mine at a 4 out of five terrain rating. Mine is just a 1/4 mile quick hike across a little creek and over some small hills, there is no trail but it is very simple to get to. If i rated it, i would give it a 2 out of 5. I think that a 1-10 rating would help define things a little better.

I find the Clayjar calculator over rates the terrain of caches by about 1 star, when compared with the actual definition of the terrain ratings. I go by the definitions.

January 12, 2010

I think the park may have made the no caches more than 25 feet off the path because they dont want that kind of responsibility on their hands, the park can be liable for things that they condone which occur on their property.

They could have had a problem in the past, who knows.

January 12, 2010

As with most rules (and laws) they have evolved because of previously experienced problems. They are not arbitrary. When you submitted your cache, you checked a box that stated that you had read the guidelines. In those guidelines is the proximity (or, distance from other caches) rule. If you had carefully read those guidelines ahead of time, you may have been able to avoid the first problem. You also need to be 528 feet minimum from the final (and any interim) location of multi caches and mystery caches. With only two finds so far under your belt, I'd be willing to bet that you don't really even understand yet what that means.

The 2nd problem you ran into sounds like a permission issue. The guidelines state that you need adequate permission. That may not always mean explicit permission, but it would appear that the park that you hid your cache in does require explicit permission. That is something that you need to research first.

Another part of hiding a cache that I'll bet you haven't considered yet is cache maintenance. Just like getting a dog or having a kid... hiding a cache is a long-term responsibility. They get wet. They get muggled. They get reported as missing even though they really are there. They get blown up by bomb squads. YOU will have to deal with those situations, and more. Are you sure you're ready for that?

This activity IS as fun as it sounds to you. But slow down and get a little more experience before you try to contribute by hiding a cache. That is by no means an imperative, but it is a strong recommendation.

And read those guidelines. Carefully.

I did read those rules, and i used my judgement on how far away to place my cache from the other one. My judgement was off, so i moved it. Never in a million year did i think that you would have to get a permit to place a cache in the woods, i assumed that getting permission from the property owner applied to private land owners and not public parks. Please let me off with a warning officer! I also assumed that it would be gracious of me to place a cache early on as a token to the other existing members in my area rather than just feeding off of there hides and not providing any in return. From what i have seen so far, people will really enjoy my cache. This is a geocache, and in no way is it similar to a pet, lol.

January 12, 2010

What kind of Public park is it? is it a town park or a state park?

Is it a city park?

State parks are a little more picky. Its state property run by the state department of management.

National parks dont allow caches at all, its illegal to place one

City or town parks are public property and I dont believe you need to get permission because its equivalent to placeing a cache on the sidewalk which everyone has access to no permission needed

The no ammo can rule is probably because they may have had to deal with a false bomb threat one too many times or its just preventative.

Edited January 12, 2010 by lavender5215

19k · January 12, 2010

As with most rules (and laws) they have evolved because of previously experienced problems. They are not arbitrary. When you submitted your cache, you checked a box that stated that you had read the guidelines. In those guidelines is the proximity (or, distance from other caches) rule. If you had carefully read those guidelines ahead of time, you may have been able to avoid the first problem. You also need to be 528 feet minimum from the final (and any interim) location of multi caches and mystery caches. With only two finds so far under your belt, I'd be willing to bet that you don't really even understand yet what that means.

The 2nd problem you ran into sounds like a permission issue. The guidelines state that you need adequate permission. That may not always mean explicit permission, but it would appear that the park that you hid your cache in does require explicit permission. That is something that you need to research first.

Another part of hiding a cache that I'll bet you haven't considered yet is cache maintenance. Just like getting a dog or having a kid... hiding a cache is a long-term responsibility. They get wet. They get muggled. They get reported as missing even though they really are there. They get blown up by bomb squads. YOU will have to deal with those situations, and more. Are you sure you're ready for that?

This activity IS as fun as it sounds to you. But slow down and get a little more experience before you try to contribute by hiding a cache. That is by no means an imperative, but it is a strong recommendation.

And read those guidelines. Carefully.

I did read those rules, and i used my judgement on how far away to place my cache from the other one. My judgement was off, so i moved it. Never in a million year did i think that you would have to get a permit to place a cache in the woods, i assumed that getting permission from the property owner applied to private land owners and not public parks. Please let me off with a warning officer! I also assumed that it would be gracious of me to place a cache early on as a token to the other existing members in my area rather than just feeding off of there hides and not providing any in return. From what i have seen so far, people will really enjoy my cache. This is a geocache, and in no way is it similar to a pet, lol.

I suspect that your very first error was probably due to the geocaching.com distance guideline of a 528 foot minimum between caches. But everything else that you pointed out are rules created by whomever governs your parks.

Of course, placing a geocache is nowhere near the level of responsibility of having a child or getting a pet, but my point is that, by placing it, you are accepting a responsibility to maintain that cache. Just wanted to be sure that you understood that.

January 12, 2010

It is a city park, and the reviewer here told me that i need permission.

19k · January 12, 2010

It is a city park, and the reviewer here told me that i need permission.

Yes. Your city park requires permission to place a cache. Talk to the city! We can't help you in those regards.

6.7k · January 12, 2010

There are other things you can do to give back. A bit of effort in your logs make it woth the effort the cache owner puts in hiding it. That is all you need to give back and folks will be happy. You can also help out with minor repairs. Replace wet logs and torn baggies. Add a little swag to a cache in need. Clean out some of the trash(just be sure it is trash).

From the sounds of it you will hide some great caches. Get to know a few of the local cachers. They can help let you know what you need to know in the area. What parks have what rules for a start. Every region is a bit different and the locals are the ones who know it best.

Welcome to our insanity. Like any new hobby there are things to learn. You are just in the early part of the learning curve.

January 12, 2010

It is a city park, and the reviewer here told me that i need permission.

Interesting! well every place is different, we dont have that problem here.

21.9k · January 12, 2010

What kind of Public park is it? is it a town park or a state park?

Is it a city park?

It's the Hamilton County Park District. They are so geocaching-friendly that they have an automated online cache permit form. I'm jealous. You can see the page I linked the CO to here. This permit system has functioned successfully for many years.

State parks are a little more picky. Its state property run by the state department of management.

In Ohio, that is incorrect. The state parks' policy is far looser than the HCPD policy linked to above. It's looser than most of the local parks' policies.

National parks dont allow caches at all, its illegal to place one.

That is not correct.

City or town parks are public property and I dont believe you need to get permission because its equivalent to placeing a cache on the sidewalk which everyone has access to no permission needed

That is not correct. I confirm compliance with many city and town park permit systems.

January 12, 2010

National parks dont allow caches at all, its illegal to place one.

That is not correct.

Please note: You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks.

If that is not correct then why is it listed on the first time placing a cache guide right on geocaching.com

Placing your first cache

Not looking for a fight just curious.

21.9k · January 12, 2010

That statement doesn't reflect the current NPS policy, which leaves decision-making on geocaches to the local management. The answer in many places will be "no," but in a growing number of places, the answer is now coming back "yes."

This thread, however, isn't about the NPS policy, so let's not get sidetracked. Thanks.

6.1k · January 12, 2010

As with most rules (and laws) they have evolved because of previously experienced problems. They are not arbitrary.

That is exactly what happened. The guidelines evolved through trial and error, and are a reaction rather than an arbitrary creation. Not all park systems require permits, but if they do, then go apply.

I suspect that in time many of the parks that currently require permits may eventually waive that requirement, while at the same time the ones that don't require permits may eventually require them. Having permits is a good way to cover your arse if someone calls the bum squad, and is better than the park system saying NO to all caches.

5.8k · January 12, 2010

It's really cool that you feel a desire to "Give Back" so soon, but no one will hold it against you if you find a hundred first, seeing what has worked and hasn't, before you hide one. You may even find that you've given up on the game by then(Not a comment on you, but it happens all the time).

7.4k · January 12, 2010

As with most rules (and laws) they have evolved because of previously experienced problems. They are not arbitrary. When you submitted your cache, you checked a box that stated that you had read the guidelines. In those guidelines is the proximity (or, distance from other caches) rule. If you had carefully read those guidelines ahead of time, you may have been able to avoid the first problem. You also need to be 528 feet minimum from the final (and any interim) location of multi caches and mystery caches. With only two finds so far under your belt, I'd be willing to bet that you don't really even understand yet what that means.

The 2nd problem you ran into sounds like a permission issue. The guidelines state that you need adequate permission. That may not always mean explicit permission, but it would appear that the park that you hid your cache in does require explicit permission. That is something that you need to research first.

Another part of hiding a cache that I'll bet you haven't considered yet is cache maintenance. Just like getting a dog or having a kid... hiding a cache is a long-term responsibility. They get wet. They get muggled. They get reported as missing even though they really are there. They get blown up by bomb squads. YOU will have to deal with those situations, and more. Are you sure you're ready for that?

This activity IS as fun as it sounds to you. But slow down and get a little more experience before you try to contribute by hiding a cache. That is by no means an imperative, but it is a strong recommendation.

And read those guidelines. Carefully.

I did read those rules, and i used my judgement on how far away to place my cache from the other one. My judgement was off, so i moved it. Never in a million year did i think that you would have to get a permit to place a cache in the woods, i assumed that getting permission from the property owner applied to private land owners and not public parks. Please let me off with a warning officer! I also assumed that it would be gracious of me to place a cache early on as a token to the other existing members in my area rather than just feeding off of there hides and not providing any in return. From what i have seen so far, people will really enjoy my cache. This is a geocache, and in no way is it similar to a pet, lol.

The sentiment of wanting to give back to the geocaching community is admirable, but there is a certain level of responsibility involved when you choose to list a geocache with Geocaching.com. A thorough understanding of the guidelines is just the first part of that responsibility. You need to make sure the container stays in shape and is replaced or repaired if needed. You need to replace the log book when it's full. If the cache is lost, stolen, or destroyed, you need to replace it. You have to monitor the logs and watch out for fakes. A poorly-maintained cache isn't a gift to the caching community, it's an embarassment and a liability.

Pit-bulls make the news when they attack someone. Geocaches make the news when they cause bomb scares. The rules are in place to keep the game as fun and safe as possible for those who play it, and to protect our public image so our game doesn't get restricted and banned.

Many cachers frown upon new cachers who place their own caches before they have much experience. There are a lot of things about geocaching you can only learn by getting out and doing it.

Edited January 12, 2010 by narcissa

3.7k · January 12, 2010

The sentiment of wanting to give back to the geocaching community is admirable,...

On that topic, finding caches is also "giving something back" if you also log the finds.

There's not much point in us placing caches if no-one seems to be finding them. In fact I'd rather that people continue finding caches and forget setting them altogether.

At least until they suddenly get inspired to create a great hide that will impress everyone with its brilliance.

This is not aimed at the OP, by the way, but just a general point for anyone feeling duty-bound to set up a mundane cache, and those that grumble about people "not giving anything back" because they found 1000 and hid 0.

But if the OP feels driven by a perceived need to donate a cache, I'd recommend holding back until you find a really good spot that isn't ruined by the local rules. Spend your time logging caches and you'll be contributing anyway.

14k · January 12, 2010

That statement doesn't reflect the current NPS policy, which leaves decision-making on geocaches to the local management. The answer in many places will be "no," but in a growing number of places, the answer is now coming back "yes."

This thread, however, isn't about the NPS policy, so let's not get sidetracked. Thanks.

If I may take a few steps down that spider trail before coming back.

If the statement in the "How to place a cache" page does not reflect current policies it should probably should be changed. Granted, if nobody tries to place a cache in a National Park as a result of the verbiage it's not going to cause problems between geocaching and the NPS, but if it emphasized the necessity of obtaining proper permission the resulting dialog between geocachers and the NPS might produce a benefit creating a better relationship between geocaching and the park system.

3.2k · January 12, 2010

What kind of Public park is it? is it a town park or a state park?

....

National parks dont allow caches at all, its illegal to place one

.....

Not true. If the park manager is willing to work with you, caches can be placed. Some managers want recreation to take place in their park and others seem to be more comfortable if people stay away.

January 12, 2010

I did read those rules, and i used my judgement on how far away to place my cache from the other one. My judgement was off, so i moved it.

When I found the location I wanted for my first hide, I was concerned it would be too close to a cache down the hill, so I entered all the caches form the surrounding area into my GPS. From my hide location I could use the GPS to check on the distance of nearby caches.

Just a tip. :-)

3.7k · January 12, 2010

Just a tip. :-)

Watch out for multicache physical stages though, not to mention mystery cache finals!

The trick is to e-mail your reviewer when you've pencilled in a cache site and see if it looks OK before spending too much time on it. The reviewer might even agree to "reserve" the location for a week or two, to keep it clear until the cache is placed.

5.6k · January 12, 2010

<snip>

For instance the cache has to be with 25 feet of a paved trail and no ammo boxes are allowed.

<snip>

I looked at the link Keystone provided, and don't see any restrictions on ammo boxes. They may want to be sure the normal stencil on the side is painted over/covered so people don't get worried that it's live ammo (which is a good idea no matter where an ammo box is used).

19k · January 12, 2010

<snip>

For instance the cache has to be with 25 feet of a paved trail and no ammo boxes are allowed.

<snip>

I looked at the link Keystone provided, and don't see any restrictions on ammo boxes. They may want to be sure the normal stencil on the side is painted over/covered so people don't get worried that it's live ammo (which is a good idea no matter where an ammo box is used).

It is possible that the local reviewer is interpreting "it cannot resemble a pipe bomb or otherwise cause alarm to the public, etc" to include ammo boxes, possibly based upon some local incident. Only a guess.

21.9k · January 12, 2010

That is a bad guess. All I care about is hearing that the owner obtained the required permit. The details are between the cache owner and the land manager.

January 12, 2010

[i understand most of the rules but i guess the biggest rule that bothered me is that the cache has to be within 25 feet of a paved trail in this park. Seems you would get more muggles discovering what they may think of as a bomb. Let us get off the beaten trail and have a little fun, and i understand that it's the parks rule and not geocaching.com's rule. I'm also not knocking any of you or the hobby in any way.

That would be a rule implemented by the park that you chose to hide your cache in, and not a rule imposed by geocaching.com. Many of us do disagree with that sort of "distance from the trail" rule, for many reasons, but that is a rule made up by your park management, and you will need to take that up with them.

While I can disagree with the local land managers rules about "distance from trail" I completely understand the thought of why they do it.

Many cachers don't practice "leave no trace" and "leave it where you find it" and it ruins it for the rest of us that are careful not to trample or rip out fauna by the roots to clear a GZ area in their zeal to find the cache.

If all cachers could abide by that, land managers may relax these rules.

4.2k · January 12, 2010

While I can disagree with the local land managers rules about "distance from trail" I completely understand the thought of why they do it.

Many cachers don't practice "leave no trace" and "leave it where you find it" and it ruins it for the rest of us that are careful not to trample or rip out fauna by the roots to clear a GZ area in their zeal to find the cache.

If all cachers could abide by that, land managers may relax these rules.

I think in most cases, the "keep to the trail" rules are not directed specifically at cachers. Even if you were able to convert all cachers to practice leave-no-trace (not likely) you would have problems with the non-cachers that see you ducking off-trail to grab the ammo can.

"What do you mean it's okay for them to go off-trail?"

January 12, 2010

I thought that this hobby would be way cooler than it is. I am kind of a thrill junky and was hoping to go on these big hikes and kayaking across lakes. But it seems that all the caches around here are within 50 feet of the parking lot. Is there another geocache website for thrill seekers? I want the kind of caches that are in a cave 50 feet up a cliff side.

Others have covered the rule aspect of your question.

As for your thrill-seeking desire... there is plenty of thrill to be found here. You just have to know how to find it. With a brief search you'll find that there are other similar websites, but chances are good that there are more of your kind of caches here than anywhere else. The only problem is the multitude of less thrilling caches that you may have to overlook to find the ones that most interest you.

Here are a few tips off the top of my head. There are countless other threads with additional information on how to find the best caches.

Note that Premium Members have features to help query caches
Look for high Difficulty/Terrain ratings
Read the logs and view the image gallery to gauge quality
Once you find a cache you enjoy, look for others by the same owner
Review bookmark lists for "favorites" or "adventure" caches
Talk to other cachers in the area
Look into multicaches or Earthcaches. Sometimes they can be adventurous.

19k · January 13, 2010

[i understand most of the rules but i guess the biggest rule that bothered me is that the cache has to be within 25 feet of a paved trail in this park. Seems you would get more muggles discovering what they may think of as a bomb. Let us get off the beaten trail and have a little fun, and i understand that it's the parks rule and not geocaching.com's rule. I'm also not knocking any of you or the hobby in any way.

That would be a rule implemented by the park that you chose to hide your cache in, and not a rule imposed by geocaching.com. Many of us do disagree with that sort of "distance from the trail" rule, for many reasons, but that is a rule made up by your park management, and you will need to take that up with them.

While I can disagree with the local land managers rules about "distance from trail" I completely understand the thought of why they do it.

Many cachers don't practice "leave no trace" and "leave it where you find it" and it ruins it for the rest of us that are careful not to trample or rip out fauna by the roots to clear a GZ area in their zeal to find the cache.

If all cachers could abide by that, land managers may relax these rules.

One point that I would like to make here is that NONE of us practice "leave no trace" in the sense that the diehard "leave no tracers" would have it. At the very least, we leave geocaches behind.

January 13, 2010

COME TO NEW ZEALAND! No seriously! I just placed a cache and found a cache on a 3 day hike in beautiful Fiordland! There are caches all over the place here, in cities and in national parks! They are truly everywhere. If you want to have a bit of a thrill you have to look in more rural settings I guess. I don't know what it's like where you are but here you can find about 8 caches in one day, but they are all far enough out, or through bush to make it interesting, yet you can find microcache's in an urban setting. I guess its just where you are looking. Keep going, because you will get addicted to finding caches. And learn to scuba dive, they are even hidden under water!

And hey, if there are no thrill seeking ones out there for you to find, then hide some yourself - chances are there are other people that want to find them, and its just as satisfying having someone find your cache as it is finding one yourself.

Goodluck and have lots of fun!! <_<

January 13, 2010

One way to avoid those "parking lot" woes is to look for caches with a terrain of 3 or more. 4 is better--5 is the best.

January 13, 2010

National parks dont allow caches at all, its illegal to place one.

That is not correct.

Please note: You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks.

If that is not correct then why is it listed on the first time placing a cache guide right on geocaching.com

Placing your first cache

Not looking for a fight just curious.

National Parks do allow for caches with permission. I was nogotiating with them on a Historical site allowing them to tell me what type of cache and the location, when someone comes along and plants a cache in the middle of a flower bed. Now it is not a flower bed and I can't plant my legitate cache because it would be too close. They also think that I planted it, because I was the one negotiating with them. SEE WHY THERE ARE RULES!

Edited January 13, 2010 by Hirum

January 14, 2010

I think that a 1-10 rating would help define things a little better.

I agree somewhat. We do have "half stars" so it's basically a 1-10 scale now. But you are right...it seems there should be an extension on that for really extreme caches. You know...the ones you need to scuba dive to get to.

14k · January 14, 2010

I think that a 1-10 rating would help define things a little better.

I agree somewhat. We do have "half stars" so it's basically a 1-10 scale now. But you are right...it seems there should be an extension on that for really extreme caches. You know...the ones you need to scuba dive to get to.

I bet if you asked most people that scuba dive if it was an extreme sport they'd say that it was not. Similarly, as an avid sea kayaker, I haven't found a cache that requires a boat, that presents a physical challenge any greater than a 3 star terrain cache. The mandatory 5 star terrain for scuba, boat accessible only, and some climbing caches is due to the fact that they require special equipment. That's kind of unfortunate as the 5 star terrain provides no distinction between a cache on an island in a small pond, and one that requires a two mile crossing on the open ocean.

14k · January 14, 2010

I sure wish the forum software we're using here provided the means to delete your own post.

Edited January 14, 2010 by NYPaddleCacher

19k · January 14, 2010

I sure wish the forum software we're using here provided the means to delete your own post.

But don't you just love how they sometimes give you a chance to say something else right away? Duplicate posts are the workaround for flood control.

7.4k · January 15, 2010

http://extreme-caching.com/

What's with all of the rules?

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