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Keith Watson

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I found the following reviewer on GCDFB - 4.5lb Walleye.

 

Hello fellow geocacher. I'm one of the volunteer reviewers for Geocaching

***Unfound for more than six months***

 

Starting in the spring of 2010 a quarterly sweep across Ontario will be performed on all geocaches that have not been found during a six month period. At this moment, your geocache has never been found. This purpose of this note is to give you a heads-up that it may be best if you can physically visit your cache and have ensured that everything is still in place and the cache is ready to be found. Once completed you should post an Owner Maintenance log on this geocache. This will let people know that they can safely attempt to find your cache, as they may have been waiting to see if there is any activity from you or others.

 

Is this in other provinces / countries or just Ontario?

 

Also, is it possible that the reviewers publish a list of the caches? It would be nice if the cache is still there and could be found before it is potentially archived because the owner fails to respond for some reason.

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I found the following reviewer on GCDFB - 4.5lb Walleye.

 

Hello fellow geocacher. I'm one of the volunteer reviewers for Geocaching

***Unfound for more than six months***

 

Well this raises some concern here.... I know lots of caches that go for up to a year between visits.... and lots of owners that will just archive their own caches if they start getting this note posted on them.

 

Guess the question is, how often should a cache owner (be expected to) visit their own caches?

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Guess the question is, how often should a cache owner (be expected to) visit their own caches?

 

 

Interesting question. If you would like to see the "Cadillac" of cache owners, take a look at Jungle J. He has over 100 hidden and every single one of them gets a maintenance visit in the spring. Any time a "Needs Maintenance" is posted, it is dealt with in a day or two.

 

My personal opinion is that it is reasonable to expect a cache owner to make a maintenance visit on an owned cache that hasn't been found in over a year. As Cache Drone points out, in the other thread, a maintenance check will encourage cachers to go find it. I doubt there are many cachers that would risk the time/expense of going after Walleye if they didn't have a reasonable expectation of it being there. A CO log saying he checked would encourage cachers.

 

Edit for grammar.

Edited by Tequila
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My two questions still stand as they don;t seem to be answered directly in that forum.

 

What I got from that forum is that this particular thing is Cachedrone acting in Ontario, and he stated he had no intention of 'further action' so there's no list of caches about to be archived.

 

From post 28 on that other thread:

 

"I have no intention of doing anything else, just trying to suggest a reason why people might be avoiding these caches... because there is no activity on them!"

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Guess the question is, how often should a cache owner (be expected to) visit their own caches?

 

 

My personal opinion is that it is reasonable to expect a cache owner to make a maintenance visit on an owned cache that hasn't been found in over a year. As Cache Drone points out, in the other thread, a maintenance check will encourage cachers to go find it. I doubt there are many cachers that would risk the time/expense of going after Walleye if they didn't have a reasonable expectation of it being there. A CO log saying he checked would encourage cachers.

 

I agree with Tequila - a yearly maintenance check is not unreasonable. I'm OK with a 6-month maintenance check but it could be difficult if the 6-month period falls in the winter months.

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I think that CacheDrone does consider where the cache is and whether there are DNF's on it and hopefully the geocacher "traffic" in that area.

 

In my area of Northern Ontario (North shore of Lake Superior) there is very little geocaching activity in the winter due to snow and weather conditions. But there are some die-hards out there, especially in Thunder Bay.

 

I have 2 caches that have been out since Feb 8, 2008, which not been found. They also do NOT have any DNF's. The only logs on the caches are mine from a maintenance run last February. I will be making a maintenance run sometime in the next month or so, partially because it is a great walk to the cache (snowshoes required) in the winter. In fact, I believe that although both caches are winter friendly, hanging in trees, one of them is not assessable in the summer by boat. Cache is at the North end of the lake. You can get to probably 100 metres from the cache, but then there is only impassable swamp to the cache location (which is on dry land). I am not even sure if you can bushwhack to the cache. The second cache on the same lake can be reached by boat, but the winter is the best time to find it. Major bushwhacking for nearly a kilometre would be required if going by land (probably 2 km to the furthest one). There are no trails to the cache locations.

 

If fact, I did receive a kind note from CacheDrone about the maintenance check I did last winter. So he does recognize when the effort is made to do the maintenance on unfound caches.

 

I also have 2 other caches that have not been found in a while (since 2007) (Geocite has found them). There are NO DNF's on these cache either. I will complete maintenance runs on them in the spring (canoe or boat and the proper weather conditions required). The final cache locations are not assessable in the winter do to ice conditions - most of the winter there is no ice. Travel to the cache location is best in the early morning when there is no wind, thus no waves.

 

The one thing to remember about winter geocaching - there are no bugs (especially Black Flies)

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I have a cache that has not been found in over 6 months. I winder why I did not get a noted posted on mine. Are these caches remote caches?

 

If you carefully read CacheDrone's post, you will note that the message was only put on caches that have never been found. I have several caches that have not been found in the last six months.

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I have a cache that has not been found in over 6 months. I winder why I did not get a noted posted on mine. Are these caches remote caches?

 

If you carefully read CacheDrone's post, you will note that the message was only put on caches that have never been found. I have several caches that have not been found in the last six months.

 

I am sorry. I must have been confused by this line.

 

"Starting in the spring of 2010 a quarterly sweep across Ontario will be performed on all geocaches that have not been found during a six month period."

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Yes, I did post that note on all active geocaches in Ontario that have never been found. Yes, starting in the spring I will be filtering through all active geocaches in Ontario and looking at the history.

 

* If a listing appears to have logs which raise concern about the cache and/or that they might not be available then it is likely that I will disable them and request that the CO take some form of maintenance action within a timely fashion, as required under the listing guidelines that they agreed to at the time of cache submission. One possible test would be that it has not been found in more than 6 months and there are three unique DNF logs by three unique players on three unique dates, but other methods may exist.

 

* It also follows that inactive accounts, which coincidentally are those that have not logged in for more than six months, may not be receiving site emails due to various reasons. Calls for maintenance that are not being addressed will also likely result in listings being disabled.

 

* If a cache does not appear to have any issues but still has not been found in more than six months then I will likely suggest that the CO might want to physically check on their cache and then post an Owner Maintenance log. This action would update the entire caching community that the cache is verified to be in good condition and still in place. It gives the CO the opportunity to reassure those that might be apprehensive about seeking the cache that it is in fact still viable. Whether the CO chooses to check on it or not is not relevant since there are no reported maintenance issues for me to act upon. Notwithstanding, please do note that owner maintenance is covered under the listing guidelines

 

As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.).

 

When it has been long time since anyone has visited a cache site, a responsible cache owner will check on their cache if it has not been found to ensure that all is fine and that the cache is ready to be enjoyed. Call it preventive maintenance :D

 

Many reviewers have raised concerns about caches that have not been found in extended periods of time. One of the time frames suggested was six months but it is still at the discretion of the local reviewers.

 

Often I will compare geocaching to a video store. When a movie has been sitting on the shelf untouched for long periods of time, staff or management will move it to a special shelf to highlight it. In short, they call attention to it and sometimes that is all it takes to get someone to rent it.

 

:rolleyes: CD

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Often I will compare geocaching to a video store. When a movie has been sitting on the shelf untouched for long periods of time, staff or management will move it to a special shelf to highlight it. In short, they call attention to it and sometimes that is all it takes to get someone to rent it.

 

If this is true, can you provide a list to the public. A cache that has never been found will probably be of interest to the harder core cachers who may want the challenge. If the owner responds favorably, then I bet there will be a good chance it will be visited.

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Often I will compare geocaching to a video store. When a movie has been sitting on the shelf untouched for long periods of time, staff or management will move it to a special shelf to highlight it. In short, they call attention to it and sometimes that is all it takes to get someone to rent it.

 

If this is true, can you provide a list to the public. A cache that has never been found will probably be of interest to the harder core cachers who may want the challenge. If the owner responds favorably, then I bet there will be a good chance it will be visited.

 

It is my understanding that premium members are capable of creating pocket queries. If you are unsure how to do so then perhaps it would be worth your while investigating how this is done. The Groundspeak Knowledgebase is a great place to start as is Membership Features

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Wow, didn't know you could do a PQ on caches that at not found yet. Don;t see how to do the 6 month thing though with out doing pq's for the entire province, and I am sure Groundspeak does not want me doing that. I normally only run pq's for an area I am going to. No point in running a pq for an area I don't plan on going to.

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Wow, didn't know you could do a PQ on caches that at not found yet. Don;t see how to do the 6 month thing though with out doing pq's for the entire province, and I am sure Groundspeak does not want me doing that. I normally only run pq's for an area I am going to. No point in running a pq for an area I don't plan on going to.

 

Use the "Date Placed" option to specify caches that were placed at least 6 months ago. Took me less than a minute to get the 26 caches.

Edited by Tequila
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I have 2 caches that have been out since Feb 8, 2008, which not been found. They also do NOT have any DNF's. The only logs on the caches are mine from a maintenance run last February. I will be making a maintenance run sometime in the next month or so, partially because it is a great walk to the cache (snowshoes required) in the winter. In fact, I believe that although both caches are winter friendly, hanging in trees, one of them is not assessable in the summer by boat. Cache is at the North end of the lake. You can get to probably 100 metres from the cache, but then there is only impassable swamp to the cache location (which is on dry land). I am not even sure if you can bushwhack to the cache. The second cache on the same lake can be reached by boat, but the winter is the best time to find it. Major bushwhacking for nearly a kilometre would be required if going by land (probably 2 km to the furthest one). There are no trails to the cache locations.

 

OK Folks, an event named "Snowshoe for the Caches" has been submitted for Saturday, January 23, 2010. If you are in the area, please plan to attend. Watch for the event to be published

Edited by jleecollins
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Ensuring caches are active and available is important to our sport. However, during the winter, a 6 month period may be too short. Last year the snow came in mid-November, and did not leave until early April. That is 5 months of winter here in Owen Sound. Maybe annual may be better ?

 

You think that is bad in your area - come further north. We have snow that can stay sometimes from October to April in a bad year. We can even have snowstorms in May. That is life in Northern Ontario.

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Ensuring caches are active and available is important to our sport. However, during the winter, a 6 month period may be too short. Last year the snow came in mid-November, and did not leave until early April. That is 5 months of winter here in Owen Sound. Maybe annual may be better ?

 

Agreed of course that winter can be a factor, which can always be expressed. However, as stated in the other thread and in by the quote from the OP, the sweep will be done quarterly. Thus the minimum spacing would be seven months for any single cache.

 

Example 1. Last find was 21 DEC ... my sweep on 21 MAR would ignore it, my sweep on 21 JUN would cause me to look at it, possibly disable it, then 22 JUL would be one month after disabling and if nothing updated then it likely would be archived. Of course, this is all if the CO does absolutely nothing.

 

Example 2. Last find was 21 JUN... my sweep on 21 SEP would ignore it, my sweep on 21 DEC would cause me to look at it, possibly disable it, then 22 JAN would be one month after disabling and if nothing updated then it likely would be archived. Of course, this is all if the CO does absolutely nothing.

 

Naturally, if the CO logs on and says "The cache site is buried under snow, I'll check it in the Spring... that is fine. On the 21 MAR sweep would be another 'nudge' and if they can't get their listing enabled by 21 JUN then I see no reason why the listing should remain. At that point we would be talking about an entire year having passed. CO's do have to taken some sort of responsibility for their caches, and responding to queries about the conditions of their cache would be one of them.

 

Also, remember that we are talking about "not found in over 6 months" and that being done once every three months. So the examples above are the absolute bare minimum. Many would likely be in the neighbourhood of 8 months with no real action being taken for a total of 9 months.

 

Lastly, nearly every geocache that has been archived can be unarchived if the CO (and no one else) contacts the reviewer. I unarchive stuff all the time as long as it is still compliant with the current listing guidelines.

Edited by CacheDrone
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I can undertand the need to ensure the caches are where they were to start with, but we personally enjoy and primarly seek (when possible) caches that either have never been found in a year, or have had over a year since their last find.

 

It means that the location is likely very very unique, our favorite caches that we have gotten were locations that had a cache that was over a year old and the cache was still a first to find. If it hadn't been for the cache we wouldn't have been going to the location.

 

These caches are also normally placed for the "non city" cacher and take a good investment of time e.g. an entire weekend and we normally plan those 6 months before we go for the cache. We have very limited free time between 7 kids & working full time - so our time is precious.

 

We would hate to see caches start getting archived because no one has gone after them, and we are personally willing to risk that a cache is "gone" as the trip is about the journey - not a piece of plastic tupperware.

 

We know many sensitive cache owners who get anxious on their own when a cache hasn't been found in a year, and something that could be perceieved as threatening to archive could discourage placing those types of caches if they start thinking that they will have to archive them before being found - so "Why bother".

 

Can there be an alternative method? Maybe finding a way to "flag them"

 

There also is no way to search for "archived caches", so if we wanted to search for one that had been archived because of this - we couldn't and would end up being left with city caches which we would then start losing interest in caching - as we are addicted because of those caches that "no one else wants to get"

Edited by Tulameen Turtles
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Caches do not get archived because they have not been found for long periods of time. Caches can go for years without being found and still be active and the source of dreams for the adventurous.

 

This is not about archiving caches. This is about cache owner maintenance.

 

Here is one example of a responsive owner

 

March 15, 2009 by rstengel (147 found)

was in good shape last fall

 

[view/edit logs/images]

March 15, 2009 by paddlelust (658 found)

Holy cow! Two years and no FTF!!!! Hummmm. Is it still there?

 

[view/edit logs/images]

 

October 2, 2007 by Cache-tech (7 found)

Published

 

[view/edit logs/images]

 

And here is an example of a cache that is of more concern, due to there being 10 DNFs and never been found.

 

GC1HA1R Bridge Over Troubled Water

 

It could be there or the cache is really hard to find or perhaps something has happened at the cache site or the coordinates might be incorrect.... or... or.... or... so a note from the CO might be a good idea.

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Wow, didn't know you could do a PQ on caches that at not found yet. Don;t see how to do the 6 month thing though with out doing pq's for the entire province, and I am sure Groundspeak does not want me doing that. I normally only run pq's for an area I am going to. No point in running a pq for an area I don't plan on going to.

 

Use the "Date Placed" option to specify caches that were placed at least 6 months ago. Took me less than a minute to get the 26 caches.

 

Sorry, my fault. Still confused by the message posted on the cache listing. So the note found for six months as originally posted is not entirely correct. Is it really that the cache was placed over six months ago and so far anyone that has tried to find the cache has failed.

 

If this is true, reviewers may want to consider updating that message on future reviewer note postings to avoid confusion.

Edited by Keith Watson
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Caches do not get archived because they have not been found for long periods of time. Caches can go for years without being found and still be active and the source of dreams for the adventurous.

 

This is not about archiving caches. This is about cache owner maintenance.

 

This may not be about archiving caches but I am sure I am not alone in the simple conclusion of what is going to happen.

 

1) Owner places cache in remote area.

2) No one finds it, though some have tried.

3) Six to seven months go by and a reviewer posts a note to the owner to check the cache.

4) One to two months go by without a reply from the owner possibly because then email is no longer valid, the owner has given up on geocaching, the owner just doesn't care, or any other of many reasons.

5) Cache gets archived.

 

I am not saying that this will be the out come for all caches involved in the sweep, but I predict it will be for the majority.

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Caches do not get archived because they have not been found for long periods of time. Caches can go for years without being found and still be active and the source of dreams for the adventurous.

 

This is not about archiving caches. This is about cache owner maintenance.

 

This may not be about archiving caches but I am sure I am not alone in the simple conclusion of what is going to happen.

 

1) Owner places cache in remote area.

2) No one finds it, though some have tried.

3) Six to seven months go by and a reviewer posts a note to the owner to check the cache.

4) One to two months go by without a reply from the owner possibly because then email is no longer valid, the owner has given up on geocaching, the owner just doesn't care, or any other of many reasons.

5) Cache gets archived.

 

I am not saying that this will be the out come for all caches involved in the sweep, but I predict it will be for the majority.

 

Seems like a logical outcome to me. The cache has been abandoned by the CO.

My only concern is that if it's still there and ends up archived, it will become litter. Perhaps a list could be generated from time to time for abandoned/archived caches so the caching community could step up and retrieve those abandoned archived caches then report back when they've been removed.

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A list like this is available for the archived "Ontario Geocaching Treasure Hunt Series" caches put out by the Canadian Ecology Centre a couple of years ago. One of the reviewers, Cach-Tech I think has done this. The list is available in one of the forum topics. I can't remember which one at the moment.

 

The list shows the caches that are still in place which have not been removed yet. As geocachers remove these caches, as requested by CEC and Cache-Tech, they are taken off the list when they get notification of this. In the meantime, if a geocacher finds them they can still be claimed as a find

Edited by jleecollins
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And here is an example of a cache that is of more concern, due to there being 10 DNFs and never been found.

 

GC1HA1R Bridge Over Troubled Water

 

It could be there or the cache is really hard to find or perhaps something has happened at the cache site or the coordinates might be incorrect.... or... or.... or... so a note from the CO might be a good idea.

 

I don't have a problem with your concept at all, but I think I agree the wording was a bit unclear... thanks for your supporting posts...

 

As for your BOTW example... do you think that the 'digging around' mentioned in the description might be part of the reason??... just asking!

 

Personally, I do whatever I can to 'help' caches in trouble. Like the idea of lists of caches to check up on, even with the expectation that they are NOT there... I've 'recovered' a few, fixed up a few, and generally had fun checking up on them just to update things... my niche I guess. It does cut into finding time though.

But that is MY version of Geocaching... FWIW.

 

Doug

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Seems like a logical outcome to me. The cache has been abandoned by the CO.

My only concern is that if it's still there and ends up archived, it will become litter. Perhaps a list could be generated from time to time for abandoned/archived caches so the caching community could step up and retrieve those abandoned archived caches then report back when they've been removed.

 

We've been down this path before in the forums ... before running out to remove a cache that is delisted from Geocaching.com, you really gotta make an attempt to contact the owner & verify the cache is not cross-posted to one of the alternative caching sites. There are some people who will quit Geocaching.com for one reason or another, and list the cache on the other sites. Not saying it's a bad idea as much as I'm saying be cautious.

 

The CEC caches that were removed were done so after the CEC owner *requested* help removing the caches from our geocaching community.

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