Island Cache difficulties

[+HeliDood]

How would you guys describe the terrain difficulty of an island cache?

I've referenced the cachepedia site, and clayjar's rating system and I'm still unable to determine a fair number.

 

I'm in Wisconsin.

Today, I've hidden a cache today on an island. The island itself is an elongated 6 or 7 acres.

 

In winter, it's a half-mile trek across the frozen river, almost a direct shot to the cache.

It feels like a 20 minute walk to the cache, but I think would be longer depending on how much snow is on the river.

If it makes a difference, The temp is averaging single digit with -15 degree farenheit windchills.

Once there, there is HEAVY brush in the area, a foot or more of soft snow.

 

In the summer, it's a different story. Obviously the river isnt frozen. There is no portage on this end of the island, and for that reason it requires a trek 1500' (or more) through the woods. There is no trail, dense tree canopy, and heavy underbrush.

 

Because of the special equipment required (a boat, snow shoes, snowmobile, or etc, (and the risk of death)) how would you rate the difficulty of my cache?

Would you rate the difficulty differently in the Summer/ Winter?

Edited January 3, 2010 by HeliDood

[+bittsen]

How would you guys describe the terrain difficulty of an island cache?

I've referenced the cachepedia site, and clayjar's rating system and I'm still unable to determine a fair number.

 

I'm in Wisconsin.

Today, I've hidden a cache today on an island. The island itself is an elongated 6 or 7 acres.

 

In winter, it's a half-mile trek across the frozen river, almost a direct shot to the cache.

It feels like a 20 minute walk to the cache, but I think would be longer depending on how much snow is on the river.

If it makes a difference, The temp is averaging single digit with -15 degree farenheit windchills.

Once there, there is HEAVY brush in the area, a foot or more of soft snow.

 

In the summer, it's a different story. Obviously the river isnt frozen. There is no portage on this end of the island, and for that reason it requires a trek 1500' (or more) through the woods. There is no trail, dense tree canopy, and heavy underbrush.

 

Because of the special equipment required (a boat, snow shoes, snowmobile, or etc, (and the risk of death)) how would you rate the difficulty of my cache?

Would you rate the difficulty differently in the Summer/ Winter?

 

I believe terrain of 5 covers most island caches. You need special equipment to get it (including, but not limited to, below freezing temperatures).

[+niraD]

It sounds like 5-star terrain to me.

[+HeliDood]

I believe terrain of 5 covers most island caches. You need special equipment to get it (including, but not limited to, below freezing temperatures).

 

Clayjar also gave it a terrain rating of "5" To me it just seems extreme. It's a boat we're talking about here, (or a trek across the ice). It's not like it requires the cachers to strap on climbing gear.

 

I think its important to note that boats are slightly more accessible in Wisconsin than they are in the Nevada desert.

 

I have access to a boat, so for me its no big deal. But the last thing I want to do is discourage casual cachers who want a nice island cache.

 

Geocache Rating System

Your cache has been rated 2/5.

 

Difficulty rating: 2

* Easy. In plain sight or can be found in a few minutes of searching.

** Average. The average cache hunter would be able to find this in less than 30 minutes of hunting.

*** Challenging. An experienced cache hunter will find this challenging, and it could take up a good portion of an afternoon.

**** Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

***** Extreme. A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.

 

Terrain rating: 5

* Handicapped accessible. (Terrain is likely to be paved, is relatively flat, and less than a 1/2 mile hike is required.)

** Suitable for small children. (Terrain is generally along marked trails, there are no steep elevation changes or heavy overgrowth. Less than a 2 mile hike required.)

*** Not suitable for small children. (The average adult or older child should be OK depending on physical condition. Terrain is likely off-trail. May have one or more of the following: some overgrowth, some steep elevation changes, or more than a 2 mile hike.)

**** Experienced outdoor enthusiasts only. (Terrain is probably off-trail. Will have one or more of the following: very heavy overgrowth, very steep elevation (requiring use of hands), or more than a 10 mile hike. May require an overnight stay.)

***** Requires specialized equipment and knowledge or experience, (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

[+HeliDood]

But if you guys say its a "5", then a 5 it is, even though I'm reluctant to rate it a 5. Thanks.

 

 

But do you still think it's worthy of a 5 in the winter time, too?

Edited January 3, 2010 by HeliDood

[+HeliDood]

But if you guys say its a "5", then a 5 it is, even though I'm reluctant to rate it a 5. Thanks.

But do you still think it's worthy of a 5 in the winter time, too?

 

Let me note also that this cache is a LAME MICRO!

 

Just by show of hands, who here would pass on a 5 star terrain Island Cache to retreive a lame micro?

[+Printess Caroline]

But if you guys say its a "5", then a 5 it is, even though I'm reluctant to rate it a 5. Thanks.

But do you still think it's worthy of a 5 in the winter time, too?

 

Let me note also that this cache is a LAME MICRO!

 

Just by show of hands, who here would pass on a 5 star terrain Island Cache to retreive a lame micro?

 

If it is in an interesting or beautiful spot, I would gladly find a boat or strap on my snowshoes to go look for it.

[+Team Cotati]

But if you guys say its a "5", then a 5 it is, even though I'm reluctant to rate it a 5. Thanks.

But do you still think it's worthy of a 5 in the winter time, too?

 

Let me note also that this cache is a LAME MICRO!

 

Just by show of hands, who here would pass on a 5 star terrain Island Cache to retreive a lame micro?

 

Me, I'd pass on it. Unless it was a tropical island and you paid the air fare and hotel. And even then, if I was required to actually look for a micro...I'd pass on it.

[+a-body]

I've done a few island caches he last few weeks here in Minn. All have been rated 5 for terrain. I doubt I would have made the trek for a micro. If it is that hard to get to, why hide a micro? With the snow we get in this neck of the woods, there is too much chance of a DNF

[+bittsen]

Terrain 5 is generally accepted as needing special equipment. A boat IS special equipment.

 

Would I use a boat to get a lame micro? Sure, if I had access to a boat I would go after lots of caches I couldn't do otherwise. It wouldn't matter if they were lame micros or diamond encrusted ammo cans.

[+Turtle_Sask]

I would give it a 5

[+HeliDood]

I did (reluctantly) give rate it 5. I put a note on there, "The Terrain difficulty of this cache is a 5 as special equipment may be needed. Kudos to anyone who makes a swim for it, it's only a half mile"

 

If it is that hard to get to, why hide a micro? With the snow we get in this neck of the woods, there is too much chance of a DNF

 

Well... I've got a 6 or 7 acre elongated island to work with, it sure would be a waste to have just this tiny little micro on such a big island.

 

I'm one step ahead of ya. On the opposite end of the island, I've placed the final of a 4 stage Puzzle/ Mystery Cache that must first be solved on the mainland. It's evil in the aspect that I don't tell them it's an island cache. They eventually must figure that out for themselves. The main cache is a jar, but will probably be replaced with an ammo can as soon as I prime and paint the can I have.

 

Hopefully 2 caches should be enough reason for someone to make the trek.

I wont be surprised if someone places a 3rd cache out there between the two. It's a big island, plenty of room to allow for 500' spacing.

Edited January 3, 2010 by HeliDood

[+WRASTRO]

When it is liquid water it is a five. When it is frozen water it is likely something less.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

When it is liquid water it is a five. When it is frozen water it is likely something less.

 

Indeed. I don't have ready access to a boat or kayak and I'm kind of a girl about swimming with fish, so I wait until the water freezes and then hike/snowshoe to the island. Snow doesn't usually get very deep across open ice, so it's almost like walking on a paved surface.

 

I'm one step ahead of ya. On the opposite end of the island, I've placed the final of a 4 stage Puzzle/ Mystery Cache that must first be solved on the mainland. It's evil in the aspect that I don't tell them it's an island cache. They eventually must figure that out for themselves. The main cache is a jar, but will probably be replaced with an ammo can as soon as I prime and paint the can I have.

 

Hopefully 2 caches should be enough reason for someone to make the trek.

 

One cache would be reason enough...but a micro? Probably not. In the winter, it might be a 2 star terrain (or less) for those who walk across the ice. But when the ice is out, those going after your cache will have to use a boat, kayak or swim...I'm sure they would appreciate a larger cache capable of holding swag/TB's.

 

Bruce

[+Trekkin' and birdin']

We're in Wisconsin. We've done *many* of the island caches in the state, both on snowshoe and by canoe or kayak. Almost all are rated a 5 star. Though the winter makes a boat unnecessary, there are trade offs. We look forward to seeing yours, although we aren't gung ho to look for micros in remote locations.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Trekkin' and birdin'

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I rate my island caches a 5-terrain simply because you have to have some kind of equipment, boat, raft, floaties or swimsuit.

 

Then I rate the difficulty as if they were on the mainland.

 

My Kawliga Cache, for instance, is 1-difficulty 5-terrain.

 

It's on a small island 200' from a marina dock, but once you get there it is easy to find.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...78-a1ab6a2ed60f

 

Some of my island caches (now adopted out since I sold my boat) are 4/5, indicating that not only do you have to have a boat but you have to climb across snake-infested driftwood beaches then climb a steep mountain to find a well-hidden ammo can.

 

The thing is that the experience needn't, and to my mind shouldn't, be a surprise. Tell the cacher what to expect and let them make an informed choice. The hide should be a surprise, not the mud-slick mountainside the cacher has to ascend to get to ground zero.

[+Trekkin' and birdin']

I wish every cache was rated and described so well, Alabama Rambler. If we know what we're in for, we usually don't shy away from anything. It's the ones that suggest an easy find, only to realize it probably should be much more difficult that irritate most cache seekers. Personally, we love all kinds of challenges, but it's nice to know what you might be facing before heading out. In the case of a mystery with an island final, out of towners might not be too happy after getting all the elements for the final, only to discover they should have hauled the kayak. Just sayin'. Most I've seen let you know that the final will require a boat/SCUBA, whatever. For us, it would not be a huge deal, as we live within 90 or so minutes of the one in question, but others might travel quite a lot farther, only to walk away disappointed.

 

I would add this caveat about changing ratings with the seasons. Newer cache placers may not realize that a lot of more experienced cachers enjoy completing "Fizzy" or "Well Rounded Cacher" challenges, which require at least one cache find in each difficulty/terrain combination cell. When those ratings get changed on caches with higher difficulty or terrain, it can mess up how close someone might be to qualifying for the challenge. If you do decide to change ratings, state this clearly in the cache description, so seekers know not to count on it for a challenge cell.

[CoyoteRed]

Clayjar also gave it a terrain rating of "5" To me it just seems extreme.

t does to me, too, but that's how the rating system was set up.

[CoyoteRed]

I would add this caveat about changing ratings with the seasons. Newer cache placers may not realize that a lot of more experienced cachers enjoy completing "Fizzy" or "Well Rounded Cacher" challenges, which require at least one cache find in each difficulty/terrain combination cell. When those ratings get changed on caches with higher difficulty or terrain, it can mess up how close someone might be to qualifying for the challenge. If you do decide to change ratings, state this clearly in the cache description, so seekers know not to count on it for a challenge cell.

That's the risk you take when you're go for those types of challenges. Really, it's no different than adjusting a rating to be more accurate or those caches where the CO artificially manipulated the rating to fit a ratings combination specifically for a challenge.

 

Another prime example of tail wagging the dog when it comes to sub-games dictating how the main hobby should be run.

[Mr.Yuck]

When it is liquid water it is a five. When it is frozen water it is likely something less.

 

Indeed. I don't have ready access to a boat or kayak and I'm kind of a girl about swimming with fish, so I wait until the water freezes and then hike/snowshoe to the island. Snow doesn't usually get very deep across open ice, so it's almost like walking on a paved surface.

 

I'm one step ahead of ya. On the opposite end of the island, I've placed the final of a 4 stage Puzzle/ Mystery Cache that must first be solved on the mainland. It's evil in the aspect that I don't tell them it's an island cache. They eventually must figure that out for themselves. The main cache is a jar, but will probably be replaced with an ammo can as soon as I prime and paint the can I have.

 

Hopefully 2 caches should be enough reason for someone to make the trek.

 

One cache would be reason enough...but a micro? Probably not. In the winter, it might be a 2 star terrain (or less) for those who walk across the ice. But when the ice is out, those going after your cache will have to use a boat, kayak or swim...I'm sure they would appreciate a larger cache capable of holding swag/TB's.

 

Bruce

 

I think he's just kidding about the micro thing, I looked at the cache page, and it's not listed as a micro.

There were 2 canoe caches placed in my area in late summer or early fall. The cache owner did not rate either of them 5 stars, arguing that they could be walked to in the winter (they have been once, and surely could be right now). A little bit of a "cache page turned into a forum" situation ensued on the lack of 5 stars. Personally, I'd say a canoe cache on an island should be 5 star terrain, even if it's located in like Northern Manitoba, and can be walked to on ice 1/2 the year. But that's just me, and I just mention my local situation to show that there can be differing opinions on the matter, and the Clayjar rating system certainly isn't set in stone.

[+Trekkin' and birdin']

Some of the island caches in the Wausau area, about a half hour to the northeast of the one in question, have been rated a 4.5 terrain due to becoming reachable by foot in the winter, so that's a local convention HeliDood can exercise if he so chooses. Heck, it's his cache, he can do whatever he wants!

 

As far as the tail wagging the dog, it will always be a game that can be played however one wishes. I share this information with the OP who has stated he's pretty new, simply to let him know some of the considerations he can choose to ponder....or not. We'll go after interesting caches for no reason other than to enjoy the experience, and if the challenges follow.....cool! Just another aspect of the game.

[+HeliDood]

I think he's just kidding about the micro thing, I looked at the cache page, and it's not listed as a micro.

 

I'm not kidding.

There IS a Micro on that island. It's one of two caches out there. I've submitted the listing, but I've chosen not to activate it until we get some fresh snow to cover my tracks.

 

The one you might be seeing, (the not a micro) is indeed not a micro. Thats part of a puzzle/ mystery cache.

 

Now here's a It's a Small World Fun Fact of the Day:

A week ago today, Trekkin' and Birdin', who have replied to this thread, retrieved the 3 prerequisite caches needed to solve the puzzle cache. Unfortunately for Trekkin' and Birdin', a week ago today those three caches were not yet part of the puzzle/ mystery. (that means they need to get them again)

I'm sure Trekkin' and Birdin' can attest that 2 of those 3 caches are not very winter-friendly at all!

Edited January 3, 2010 by HeliDood

[7rxc]

Ice cover is notoriously fickle! Lakes tend to be a bit easier to predict / measure, but rivers are much less reliable. Having the required skill set to make a good guesstimate would probably require a 5 rating...

Having skill set to self rescue, the same. I'm not saying you can't cross ice, but you should be aware of the nature of doing so... I see that that was mentioned early on (dangerous). Anyway good luck on hiding and finding it! But be aware and prepared. I have fond memories of one ski trip when I just started XC.. on that one at one point nearing the shore of a lake we were using as part of the route, I became aware that the ski poles were going through to open water, inches from the stuff my skiis were supporting me on... just a big mass of slush! And that was at -20C in the middle of a prolonged cold snap! Didn't know there was a spring there under the 'ice'. I had to warn the guy behind me to stop using his poles... lucky we were the last ones... he did manage to get to shore, but walked on the lake bottom the last few metres... Oh yes, the ice had measured over 20 inches not to far from there where we chatted with an ice fisherman... HE knew better than to go the way WE went... Learned a lot from that trip. We both had a long chat with the trip leader after. Now I only go where I feel comfortable.

 

Doug

[+niraD]

Clayjar also gave it a terrain rating of "5" To me it just seems extreme.

t does to me, too, but that's how the rating system was set up.

Yeah, there's special equipment like a rented pedal boat, a magnet on a fishing line, or other things that are readily available to anyone. Some things considered special equipment might even be considered TOTT by some geocachers, if enough local caches require the same special equipment. And then there's Special Equipment® like scuba gear, helicopters, and other things that require an investment of time and money to use safely and effectively. It might be nice if the rating system could distinguish between them.

 

But it doesn't. And given how few caches require either special equipment or Special Equipment®, maybe we don't really need to worry about the difference.

[+briansnat]

But if you guys say its a "5", then a 5 it is, even though I'm reluctant to rate it a 5. Thanks.

But do you still think it's worthy of a 5 in the winter time, too?

 

Let me note also that this cache is a LAME MICRO!

 

Just by show of hands, who here would pass on a 5 star terrain Island Cache to retreive a lame micro?

 

How could a 5 star terrain cache be lame regardless of the size?

 

I agree with the others, boat needed = 5 star terrain. It's a flawed system but the one we've been using since the beginning.

 

As far as winter I wouldn't change the rating because you can walk out on the ice. Terrain can change considerably with seasons. I found a 2 star terrain cache over the weekend that was easily a 3 because there was 2 feet of snow on the ground. A cache that might be 2 star terrain most of the year might be 5 star terrain after heavy rains.

 

A cache should be rated for the conditions that searchers are likely to encounter most of the time.

[+Trekkin' and birdin']

Now here's a It's a Small World Fun Fact of the Day:

A week ago today, Trekkin' and Birdin', who have replied to this thread, retrieved the 3 prerequisite caches needed to solve the puzzle cache. Unfortunately for Trekkin' and Birdin', a week ago today those three caches were not yet part of the puzzle/ mystery. (that means they need to get them again)

I'm sure Trekkin' and Birdin' can attest that 2 of those 3 caches are not very winter-friendly at all!

 

Yes, we did take note of that, LOL. Here's another fun fact....we understand you met Trekkin's brother Timberline Echoes the other day on the trail. And all three could be tough finds depending on the snow depths, although we made them much easier for the next seekers for awhile!

[+HeliDood]

Now here's a It's a Small World Fun Fact of the Day:

A week ago today, Trekkin' and Birdin', who have replied to this thread, retrieved the 3 prerequisite caches needed to solve the puzzle cache. Unfortunately for Trekkin' and Birdin', a week ago today those three caches were not yet part of the puzzle/ mystery. (that means they need to get them again)

I'm sure Trekkin' and Birdin' can attest that 2 of those 3 caches are not very winter-friendly at all!

 

Yes, we did take note of that, LOL. Here's another fun fact....we understand you met Trekkin's brother Timberline Echoes the other day on the trail. And all three could be tough finds depending on the snow depths, although we made them much easier for the next seekers for awhile!

 

And here's ANOTHER fun fact:

 

When I went out to those 3 caches to place the "puzzle pieces", I got more than half way to one of the caches before I realised I forgot my GPS at home, sitting on the coffee table. Fortunately, I had your foot prints to follow to get me to my own caches. Thanks for that.

 

I indeed met Timberline Echoes. Mr and Mrs Echoes gave me a lift a few miles down the road to retrieve a shovel after my truck found some deeper than expected soft snow.

Small world.

[+albanach]

I got a 2/5 on my island cache as well.