Got a compass, now what?

[+Hrethgir]

So I was shopping at Fry's to buy myself a birthday/Christmas present, and after picking up a couple video games, I started wandering. Anyways, ended up by the GPS's and saw the compasses there, and I've always heard people say that you should know how to use a map and compass to navigate in the wilderness, so I picked up a Brunton 7DNL baseplate compass.

 

http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=110

 

OK, I have the compass, and I know need maps to go with it, but what do I do now? I'm sure it's possible to geocache with a map and compass instead of a GPSR, but how do you do that? What kind of maps would be the best for this kind of thing? How do you find and mark your current position on a map using just a compass? I have so much to learn!

[+Chrysalides]

So I was shopping at Fry's to buy myself a birthday/Christmas present, and after picking up a couple video games, I started wandering. Anyways, ended up by the GPS's and saw the compasses there, and I've always heard people say that you should know how to use a map and compass to navigate in the wilderness, so I picked up a Brunton 7DNL baseplate compass.

 

http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=110

 

OK, I have the compass, and I know need maps to go with it, but what do I do now? I'm sure it's possible to geocache with a map and compass instead of a GPSR, but how do you do that? What kind of maps would be the best for this kind of thing? How do you find and mark your current position on a map using just a compass? I have so much to learn!

http://www.learn-orienteering.org/

 

Personally I wouldn't try to find a geocache with only a compass and map, but that is up to you. A compass can be useful in helping you find your way out of the forest when you are lost and your GPSr is not working (one reason or another - like forgetting to enable tracks, for example).

[+hydnsek]

So I was shopping at Fry's to buy myself a birthday/Christmas present, and after picking up a couple video games, I started wandering. Anyways, ended up by the GPS's and saw the compasses there, and I've always heard people say that you should know how to use a map and compass to navigate in the wilderness, so I picked up a Brunton 7DNL baseplate compass.

 

http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=110

 

OK, I have the compass, and I know need maps to go with it, but what do I do now? I'm sure it's possible to geocache with a map and compass instead of a GPSR, but how do you do that? What kind of maps would be the best for this kind of thing? How do you find and mark your current position on a map using just a compass? I have so much to learn!

http://www.learn-orienteering.org/

 

Personally I wouldn't try to find a geocache with only a compass and map, but that is up to you. A compass can be useful in helping you find your way out of the forest when you are lost and your GPSr is not working (one reason or another - like forgetting to enable tracks, for example).

As a former competitive orienteer, I agree.

 

Another link: Orienteering Education (US Orienteering Federation)

Edited January 1, 2010 by hydnsek

[+Hrethgir]

Cool, thanks! I didn't figure I would be able to cahe with just a compass and map, didn't figure it would be accurate enough, but had to ask. I'll look at those orienteering links. And I usually bring 2 GPSrs with me when I go out into the woods (Legend HCx and PN-40), so I really just got the compass for funs and to learn how to use it. Someday I'll pick up a slide-rule for the same reason!

[+spektrum2]

I really just got the compass for funs and to learn how to use it. Someday I'll pick up a slide-rule for the same reason!

 

Now that I like!!! That to me sums up the value of the internet and the information age.Some long winters

up here,I like to take on projects like that as well.The internet makes dabbling in any number of topics

a convenient reality in the comfort of your living room.Yup!! You nailed it!

[oakenwood]

A couple of handy links I found for magnetic declination:

 

The simple way: point-and-click on the map. (The more you zoom in, the more accurate you'll be.)

 

And if you prefer to do it the nerdy way, type in some numbers here. You can use your zip code or coordinates. Check the directions for the proper coordinate formats.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Cool, thanks! I didn't figure I would be able to cahe with just a compass and map, didn't figure it would be accurate enough, but had to ask...

Of course you can!

 

People have been navigating the world with great accuracy for hundreds of years with just a map and a compass.

 

There are a number of folks who geocache this way.

 

Here's a great introductory-level training guide to start with - http://www.ussartf.org/compass_basics.htm

[7rxc]

Cool, thanks! I didn't figure I would be able to cahe with just a compass and map, didn't figure it would be accurate enough, but had to ask. I'll look at those orienteering links. And I usually bring 2 GPSrs with me when I go out into the woods (Legend HCx and PN-40), so I really just got the compass for funs and to learn how to use it. Someday I'll pick up a slide-rule for the same reason!

 

Hi there... you'll find the compass can be quite useful at times... like the slide rules ( I have two close at hand that are well used... won't say exactly how long for... High School ) One thing I will toss in since someone raised the issue of declination...

 

Your link shows a model that has only a declination SCALE, but is not adjustable mechanically. An orienteering compass with adjustable (geared) scale is nice to have (I do), but my old reliables, ones that some have declination scales like yours and some don't, work well IF you make a small mod to them...

In some ways I actually prefer to do it that way since it makes switching around between Norths a bit easier.

 

Anyway... take a look at the smaller scale inside, which is the declination scale. What I do is take a small piece of white electrical tape or anything that sticks well (even a paint line). Once I know the local declination, I use the thin strip of tape so that it runs with its edge from the centre point out thru the appropriate mark.. This should be applied to the back of the compass so that it turns with the dial. not the backing plate. Sometimes you have to put it on top depending on how your compass is laid out. The tape body should be positioned so that you can see the middle of the compass though... looks backwards at first... put it away from the North side. you will see what I mean. That tape would be only 1/16 to 1/8 inch wide and long enough to go out to the dial edge...

 

That makes a quickly adjustable compass. and no once set it doesn't seem to come off much... my current spare has had it's tape for 3 years now... and is used all the time by students... Raises the point that you should record the setting just in case.

 

I can provide pics if you are confused or interested... contact me thru profile email.

 

I think I got carried away again... since you just got this... but I didn't bring up declination...

 

Can tackle most nav questions, except I'm not great on US maps. I understand them, but don't use or have any.

 

Got to run.

Doug

[+Hrethgir]

I guess I should have said I figured it wouldn't be accurate enough for caching... for a newbie! I'm sure I can be used for that once I master it, but I won't start with it!

 

As for the declination setting, the red ring around the dial actually rotates to adjust for the declination, and all the stuff you see printed inside that ring rotates with it. I don't know a lot about compasses, but I thought that was what I needed. Luckily, where I am, it's a small adjustment (16 degrees), but I know that can be enough to cause a problem.

 

Anyways, I like this kind of thing, and so far this year, I've learned how to solve the Rubik's Cube and several variations, the Ice Cube (2x2), Rubik's Revenge (4x4), Professor's Cube (5x5), and I'm working on the Megaminx now (12 sides, each pentagonal in shape). Slides rules and compasses are right up my alley, I think!

[+Chrysalides]

People have been navigating the world with great accuracy for hundreds of years with just a map and a compass.

They weren't hunting for tupperware though. It's a lot easier finding a city, even when your map is not all that great.

 

Success with using a compass alone to hunt a geocache depends a lot on the particular hide.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

People have been navigating the world with great accuracy for hundreds of years with just a map and a compass.

They weren't hunting for tupperware though. It's a lot easier finding a city, even when your map is not all that great.

 

Success with using a compass alone to hunt a geocache depends a lot on the particular hide.

Consider USGS benchmarks, for example. A metal disk about 4" in diameter has been findable with a compass and map since the beginning of property definition and ownership!

 

Accurate surveying precedes the GPS system by quite a long time... and that means using a map and compass to determine and navigate to very precise coordinates.

[+Chrysalides]

Consider USGS benchmarks, for example. A metal disk about 4" in diameter has been findable with a compass and map since the beginning of property definition and ownership!

Consider also that USGS benchmarks are placed in positions that are designed to be easily found.

 

I'm not saying it can't be done at all. It will get you to the general location. In many geocaches, that's good enough. I'm simply saying that using a GPSr will be faster and easier almost all of the time. If that's the way you want to play the game, by all means go ahead. How often do you geocache with only a compass?

Edited January 1, 2010 by Chrysalides

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Consider USGS benchmarks, for example. A metal disk about 4" in diameter has been findable with a compass and map since the beginning of property definition and ownership!

Consider also that USGS benchmarks are placed in positions that are designed to be easily found.

Really?

 

I'm not saying it can't be done at all. It will get you to the general location. In many geocaches, that's good enough.

Yep, getting to a 4" disk will generally get you close enough to find a cache!

 

I'm simply saying that using a GPSr will be faster and easier almost all of the time.

Absolutely! Faster and easier every single time!

 

If that's the way you want to play the game, by all means go ahead. How often do you geocache with only a compass?

Never. I couldn't navigate accurately with a map and compass to save my soul. But that doesn't mean that people can't, have and do. Yes I have read of cachers who don't use a GPS, no I can't link to them.

 

Otay, I give! You can start off the New Year with a win. Until the advent of GPS nobody knew exactly where anything was. This made it really dangerous to travel because folks never knew when they might fall off the edge. I can remember my Navy days before the GPS system and hearing the Captain call out from the Bridge "Back Up! Make a right! Watch out for the edge!"

Edited January 1, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+slowdownracer]

Something to do to while away the cold winter hours........

 

Someone on the forums a couple years ago got me into satellite watching.

 

Go to heavens-above.com. Set-up your free account with your home coordinates.

 

You'll be surprised to see how bright the ISS is when it goes directly overhead.

 

My newest favorite hobby for a little over 2 years now. Seen the ISS 100+ times, other satellites 100+ times too.

[7rxc]

As for the declination setting, the red ring around the dial actually rotates to adjust for the declination, and all the stuff you see printed inside that ring rotates with it. I don't know a lot about compasses, but I thought that was what I needed. Luckily, where I am, it's a small adjustment (16 degrees), but I know that can be enough to cause a problem.

 

Hi Again... I think you will find that ALL the stuff turns with that nice red ring... that's how that compass style works. You set the bearing you want and visually use the little scale to adjust for declination... it isn't adjustable on a fixed basis... I could be wrong, as I don't have that model, but I doubt it from the picture.

 

I do have one of the type 26... also has a declination scale... I'm putting a few pics here to show what I was prattling about... It is much easier to do than explain... This is also lots cheaper than a dec adjustable and I think more practical in several situations... I prefer when you can do it on the bottom since it keeps it more sheltered from weather (rain etc.). but that means you have to be able to reach the turning part through the bottom plate... mine does, yours may not... topsid works fine though... just keep the area between the tape edge and the N arrow unobscured IF your local convergence angle requires being able to shift that way for grid work... that angle is never more than about 2.5 degrees +- area... but it is constant for each location... just different.. Like I said email thru my profile... don't want to run a course here..

There is also the matter of HOW to use it... better there!

 

 

BTW the slip sticks are just creative hold downs for the contrast paper... ha. Sort of on topic.. yours!

 

 

Remember to align the needle to the radial edge of the tape for declination correction (TN at the N mark)

Use the point right on the edge. Don't worry about the normal alignment arrow much.

 

Should also point out, that those tick marks on the bearing and declination scales are 2 degrees not 1.

Living out west, yours should look like this one of mine which is set at 16 East.

I have an older GPSr and often require compass work to get me right to ground zero, never yet missed if it was there in the first place, although sometimes it does take a few tries...

I'll let you talk me through this dadgum RC I just dug out of storage... I get close and understand the requirements, but can't remember the patterns long enough... that is OT.

 

Doug

[7rxc]

Something to do to while away the cold winter hours........

 

Someone on the forums a couple years ago got me into satellite watching.

 

Go to heavens-above.com. Set-up your free account with your home coordinates.

 

You'll be surprised to see how bright the ISS is when it goes directly overhead.

 

My newest favorite hobby for a little over 2 years now. Seen the ISS 100+ times, other satellites 100+ times too.

 

Even more fun to talk with them... lots of Hams do. I used to run the sat station over at the Science Centre in Vernon... One week we actually had two Russian cosmonauts with us chatting to people up there.

Right now I don't have sat station to set up, or money, but some of the new amateur satellites can be worked with hand held radios and a small antenna.

 

Doug

[+icesailor]

I'm no expert at this but I find a compass useful in this way. And I have used compasses my whole life when sailing and racing to spot wind shifts etc.

 

My GPS shows Lattitude, East to West, and Longitude North to South. When in woods or when going through a difficult area, it is easy to become disoriented. A lot of GPS don't have automatic compasses and if I stop and turn, I really may not know what is North or West. I may have to walk some distance to get the auto compass on the EPS to show me which way is the way. I have a pocket compass I bought years ago from Eastern Mountain Sports that is made for hiking. I always carry it with me. If I go to a lat line that is one bearing of the cache, I can then follow it until I get to the Lon. line.

 

If I am in a place where I can not see the sky through trees, it is very easy to get turned and this is why so many people get lost in the woods and go in circles for days and never know it.

 

I would not ever think of trying to find a cache with just a compass. But a compass can be helpful.

[+Hrethgir]

My PN-40 has an electronic compass in it, but batteries do go dead, and the little compass fob that came on my backpack isn't exactly the best option!

[+Hrethgir]

7RXC, thanks for the pics of your compass, I see what you are talking about now. I can access the bottom of the rotating part on this compass, so doing the exact same thing you did will be simple.

[+fishgeek]

A compass can extend your battery life. Turn off the GPSr and use the compass to get close to GZ, then turn the GPSr back on. Knowing your "pace count" will help you know how far you've gone.

 

It's also wise to determine a "panic azimuth" when you first go into the wilderness. Figure out which general direction will take you to a linear landmark such as a road, waterway or powerline that will lead you to safety. Not that your GPSr will ever die on you when you are out in the boonies.

[+edscott]

People have been navigating the world with great accuracy for hundreds of years with just a map and a compass.

They weren't hunting for tupperware though. It's a lot easier finding a city, even when your map is not all that great.

 

Success with using a compass alone to hunt a geocache depends a lot on the particular hide.

 

Do the math... hitting a tupperware container 600 yards from a known point vs hitting a mile wide island from 4000 miles away. Those old navigators weren't so bad. If you really know how to use the map and compass GPSless caching isn't really that difficult. The key is being perfect with the map part and resorting to the compass only when the map is unclear.

[+edscott]

 

I'm simply saying that using a GPSr will be faster and easier almost all of the time.

Absolutely! Faster and easier every single time!

 

 

Absolutely not every time. I've gone caching with other cachers who use a GPS and more often than not I'm the one that figures out the better route to Ground Zero and the one that actually finds the cache. It's not the equipment that counts it's the skill of the operator. Geocaching is a great way to hone your map and compass skills.

[7rxc]

7RXC, thanks for the pics of your compass, I see what you are talking about now. I can access the bottom of the rotating part on this compass, so doing the exact same thing you did will be simple.

 

You're welcome! I was going to take those at some point for a nav course I'm rewriting... Like to get it onto Powerpoint eventually, since I get tired of overhead projectors (old style). As you are finding, there is more to compasses than first meets the eye. You will soon find that you can use the mirror type to sight easier, but don't worry about that right now. My first Silva was similar in design to yours, no cover, no mirror and not even a declination scale... some of that is confusing to beginners... but really is useful in many ways you probably wouldn't think of. And that is just the compass. Wait until you get it figured out before getting something fancier. I just got that Type 26 in 2007, and a Suunto MC-2 a short while after that... I got that little Silva for and used since (till 2007) my eighth birthday.. same time I joined Cub Scouts. Shows there really wasn't a pressing need until I couldn't see thru the scratches to read it any more, at least easily!

 

fishgeek said a bit about the bush thinking required... the unmissable feature ( catching feature) is a good idea... something you can't miss... you can also use similar features that parallel you route... (handrails) to lighten up the navigating over long distances... ie. follow the railroad UNTIL... you reach some obvious point to make a change/recalculate... thats the stuff of orienteering and other forms of serious bush nav.

Look for the tricks of the trade like aiming off, how to detour, and picking objects to help bypass obstacles.

There is lots of that in many websites and books. Or find a knowledgable person (better yet several) and pick their brains... nobody knows every aspect of everything, so keep your brain engaged, also don't fall for the trap of practising errors... make sure you do it right.. that means trying things and getting the results checked.. caching can help with that... but try it in the open til you get it right. Speed comes with experience.

 

Edscott makes a good point on that... but it's the field sense (experience) that really helps... those long distance sea navigators use the knowledge that in many cases the destination island creates early afternoon cumulus and cu nimbus clouds as they warm up... 1 island one cloud... so arrive near by and wait, follow the cloud the rest of the way... gee a handrail or catching feature. Just don't arrive on a cloudy day!.

 

Got to run... something provoked me to start reworking a nav course.

 

Doug, Happy New Year!

[+icesailor]

7RXC, thanks for the pics of your compass, I see what you are talking about now. I can access the bottom of the rotating part on this compass, so doing the exact same thing you did will be simple.

 

You're welcome! I was going to take those at some point for a nav course I'm rewriting... Like to get it onto Powerpoint eventually, since I get tired of overhead projectors (old style). As you are finding, there is more to compasses than first meets the eye. You will soon find that you can use the mirror type to sight easier, but don't worry about that right now. My first Silva was similar in design to yours, no cover, no mirror and not even a declination scale... some of that is confusing to beginners... but really is useful in many ways you probably wouldn't think of. And that is just the compass. Wait until you get it figured out before getting something fancier. I just got that Type 26 in 2007, and a Suunto MC-2 a short while after that... I got that little Silva for and used since (till 2007) my eighth birthday.. same time I joined Cub Scouts. Shows there really wasn't a pressing need until I couldn't see thru the scratches to read it any more, at least easily!

 

fishgeek said a bit about the bush thinking required... the unmissable feature ( catching feature) is a good idea... something you can't miss... you can also use similar features that parallel you route... (handrails) to lighten up the navigating over long distances... ie. follow the railroad UNTIL... you reach some obvious point to make a change/recalculate... thats the stuff of orienteering and other forms of serious bush nav.

Look for the tricks of the trade like aiming off, how to detour, and picking objects to help bypass obstacles.

There is lots of that in many websites and books. Or find a knowledgable person (better yet several) and pick their brains... nobody knows every aspect of everything, so keep your brain engaged, also don't fall for the trap of practising errors... make sure you do it right.. that means trying things and getting the results checked.. caching can help with that... but try it in the open til you get it right. Speed comes with experience.

 

Edscott makes a good point on that... but it's the field sense (experience) that really helps... those long distance sea navigators use the knowledge that in many cases the destination island creates early afternoon cumulus and cu nimbus clouds as they warm up... 1 island one cloud... so arrive near by and wait, follow the cloud the rest of the way... gee a handrail or catching feature. Just don't arrive on a cloudy day!.

 

Got to run... something provoked me to start reworking a nav course.

 

Doug, Happy New Year!

 

Doug 7RXC,

 

You're a man of my own admiration. Ask questions. "The only stupid question is the one not asked". Learning is like a pyramid. There's lots to learn at the bottom. The closer you get to the top, the harder it is to find "The Pearls". Ask. Most are more than happy to share. Those that won't, probably had nothing to add anyway. Pick their brain.

 

That El Cheapo compass I got from EMS has a cover that raises up with a slit and a wire in it so it doesn't need a mirror. When you look at the wire through the slit, it is like a gun sight and you can look down on the compass card. The base swivels so you can set the declination. The whole thing ends up round when folded up and fits nicely in my pocket.

 

You sound like you collect factoids. Here's one for you/all.

 

When on the water at night and you are looking for a lighted bouy, you are within 1 mile of the bouy when you can see the reflection of the light in the water.

 

Ice/CMG

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

You sound like you collect factoids. Here's one for you/all.

 

When on the water at night and you are looking for a lighted bouy, you are within 1 mile of the bouy when you can see the reflection of the light in the water.

Without regard to your elevation above the water?

[+icesailor]

You sound like you collect factoids. Here's one for you/all.

 

When on the water at night and you are looking for a lighted bouy, you are within 1 mile of the bouy when you can see the reflection of the light in the water.

Without regard to your elevation above the water?

 

My elevation above the water isn't really part of the equation, Nor, does the height of the light. For example, the #17 bouy in Nantucket sound will show reflection when I am within 1 mile. Beyond that, I just see a light on a horizon I may not see. But if I see a reflection, I know that I am within a mile. It's just a rule of thumb I was taught. There is probably a rule for lights when you see them at night where you see the flash but not the light. The light is below the horizon but the glow shows above. It's something about "the dip" or is that the sun for using sun tables. Sankaty Head Light on Nantucket Island, MA will show a light below the horizon from over 50 miles to the East under the right conditions. But you won't see a reflection in the water when you see the light if you are 5 miles away.

 

I could probably find you more navigation factoids but I am in FLA for Christmas and all my Nav stuff is home in MA. With GPS on the water, I'll have to check the theory out with my GPS. I know that whenever I have traveled on the ferry, and I notice the light, it will reflect when we get close. Not before.

[7rxc]

 

Doug 7RXC,

 

You're a man of my own admiration. Ask questions. "The only stupid question is the one not asked". Learning is like a pyramid. There's lots to learn at the bottom. The closer you get to the top, the harder it is to find "The Pearls". Ask. Most are more than happy to share. Those that won't, probably had nothing to add anyway. Pick their brain.

 

That El Cheapo compass I got from EMS has a cover that raises up with a slit and a wire in it so it doesn't need a mirror. When you look at the wire through the slit, it is like a gun sight and you can look down on the compass card. The base swivels so you can set the declination. The whole thing ends up round when folded up and fits nicely in my pocket.

 

You sound like you collect factoids. Here's one for you/all.

 

When on the water at night and you are looking for a lighted bouy, you are within 1 mile of the bouy when you can see the reflection of the light in the water.

 

Ice/CMG

 

Thanks to you as well! I definitely believe that the teacher should learn as much from the student. It may not be on the topic of discussion, but you can always learn somthing from it. Such as how a student perceives the lesson, then you can adapt. I often change my opinions WHEN I find something that warrants change. Old ways worked then and can still work today, as long as you remember that there can be better ways developed since.

 

Sounds like you have a lensatic there... Like any compass you get the quality you pay for... I have a few.

Most are el cheapos... one came out of the box with a disc that would not move... had to rebuild it.

A good mil spec one works really well. I used to have a Brunton Field transit... that was great for mapping, but really overkill for nav. One thing I do like to do is figure way to make cheaper things better, with diving gear it was called customizing... lots of gear on the market came from home fudged-up ideas. Anyone else remember when a bouyancy compensator was two jugs on a cord under the stomach? I digress...

 

As to factoids, I like useful/practical ones... I have to consider that one, I agree with you and TAR about examining the conditions... It sounds about right for most small craft, but it has been way to long since I was on the water, I still say that (slightly adjusted to this example) that you don't want to try that on a foggy night. As a sailors factoid, I'd say that the majority of old timers were 'on deck' so Height wouldn't be a great factor... on the other hand the crowsnest and rigging crew would have had a slightly different version I'm sure.. I have a couple, one similar about using observations of the shoreline. At different distances from shore, you can discern different features of buildings... windows, doors change details the closer you get... windows gain window panes for example when in the hundreds of metres. Houses get windows around a mile (don't quote that), people get faces when really close, disappear completely at longer distances... Very practical when you are in practice. My real favourite is the one that advises extreme caution when you can see the seagulls KNEES when not flying.

 

I think everyone knows Murphy's law... but everyone should know O'tooles Theorem...

 

Murphy is a @$%^&&! OPTIMIST !!

 

Got to do some more reading..

 

Doug

Edited January 2, 2010 by 7rxc