Unfound finds:

[+icesailor]

This may sound stupid but,

 

I have found a number of caches and I am confident in my GPS as being accurate. Every find I have made, I mark on my GPS as a waypoint. The Lat/Lon given for the Cache is exactly as the location of the find. I always check it carefully and photo the location. For fun.

 

I have located "locations" and not found the Cache. This I understand. But I find more and more that I really do not believe are there at the time I am looking for them. I had one in a park in MA that was a buried water tank. I found the site and went to where the cache was supposed to be. I scratched around in the leaves. I went back a second time. Then, a few weeks after the last time, there was a notice that the Cache was archieved and the owner didn't respond.

 

I am in FLA for Christmas and I have found a number of caches. I have also found the locations and most of the ones I didn't find, haven't been found in some time or they were difficult finds. However, some others were easy find and they just were not there. Is this common? Should I log these as not being found? I'm just not sure what the protocol is.

 

There was one in a park. The GPS gave the location within 9'. There was a big palm tree. A hint said that it was 6' high. The palm tree had no dead leaves on it. There was no cache on the tree. None on other trees. Could the cordinates be wrong? The palm tree may have been cleaned of the dead leaves and the cache was removed.

 

Just wondering.

[+BlueDeuce]

One cacher not being able to find the cache is typically not enough to confidently assume the cache is missing. Possible yes, but usually it take a few more attempts to know it wasn't just simply overlooked.

 

I'm not sure of the difficulty level on the palm tree cache, there are some pretty tough nanos that take require a lot of looking. And it is also possible that even though you had 9' accuracy you were still off enough to be looking in the wrong place. 9' may not have been the conditions the day the cache was placed.

 

Just log a DNF and give the details of your hunt, then just sit back and watch how others do. If they find it then you know you need to go back and try harder. If there are additional DNFs then the owner knows that they should go verify that the cache in still in place.

Edited December 31, 2009 by BlueDeuce

[+icesailor]

One cacher not being able to find the cache is typically not enough to confidently assume the cache is missing. Possible yes, but usually it take a few more attempts to know it wasn't just simply overlooked.

 

I'm not sure of the difficulty level on the palm tree cache, there are some pretty tough nanos that take require a lot of looking. And it is also possible that even though you had 9' accuracy you were still off enough to be looking in the wrong place. 9' may not have been the conditions the day the cache was placed.

 

Just log a DNF and give the details of your hunt, then just sit back and watch how others do. If they find it then you know you need to go back and try harder. If there are additional DNFs then the owner knows that they should go verify that the cache in still in place.

 

Well, FWIW, whether it is 25' or 9', there is still a center. And every find I have made, was exactly on the numbers. Especially if I have a clear sky in all directions (no trees). I know from "the numbers" how far in the parallel direction I need to go. Not to belabor the palm tree cache, there were no other trees within 10' of the GPS location within a 10'+ radius. There was a hint on this one that the cache was 6' above the ground. This tree and no dead fronds on it. They had been stripped. It is an old tree. Others were not and were not stripped. I looked at those too. Nothing.

 

I went to another that was in a park. I went twice. The hint said it was either side of a fence. Unless it was inside of a fence post pipe cap, with no string to get it out, it wasn't there. I looked inside with a flashlight. I understand you aren't supposed to bury them. I poked around in the dirt. There was another cache in a pocket park across the way from this one. I found it right where it said it was. Perhaps it was removed by someone. I don't get around very well and I don't go tromping in the deep weeds. If I can't get reasonably near with my mountain bike, I don't look.

 

Thanks for the info though, I guess I'm supposed to log "no-finds" when I don't find them. I have a few no-finds because they were in leaves or were in the woods with a lot of trees with poor reception. These finds I speak of were locations with good reception/views.

 

Again, thanks.

[+icesailor]

One cacher not being able to find the cache is typically not enough to confidently assume the cache is missing. Possible yes, but usually it take a few more attempts to know it wasn't just simply overlooked.

 

I'm not sure of the difficulty level on the palm tree cache, there are some pretty tough nanos that take require a lot of looking. And it is also possible that even though you had 9' accuracy you were still off enough to be looking in the wrong place. 9' may not have been the conditions the day the cache was placed.

 

Just log a DNF and give the details of your hunt, then just sit back and watch how others do. If they find it then you know you need to go back and try harder. If there are additional DNFs then the owner knows that they should go verify that the cache in still in place.

 

Another thing,

 

There was another listed cache I looked for. It was mentioned to be careful. Of traffic. It was beside a major highway. When I looked for it, I realized that the road had been moved to put in a right hand turning lane. The cache had to have been moved. It must have been moved to a planting for a restaurant. I didn't feel comfortable tromping around in the planting of the restaurant. I figured it was there. That was in November when I was here in FLA. When I came back for Christmas, I looked and someone had posted it found it and it was not easy (according to the finder). I didn't consider that this one was missing.

 

When I look for caches, I always look to see when the last time someone found it. If no one has found it in a year or so, I don't bother. I haven't found it either. If someone found it in the last few months, it MAY be missing but I probably didn't find it. These are the caches I write about. Old caches that haven't been found in a while.

 

I guess it is important to log DNF's, Did Not Find's.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

The typical accuracy of current recreational grade GPS is around 10 - 30 feet. And keep in mind that the hider's GPS unit will have had the same error margin.

 

So even if you were "right on the spot" it's entirely possible that the cache location is anywhere within a 50+ diameter circle.

[+Touchstone]

...I guess I'm supposed to log "no-finds" when I don't find them.

 

Yes, in general that is the right thing to do, and alerts the cache owner that there may be a problem. I wouldn't dwell so much on the GPS accuracy issue. The assumption that the coordinates are "spot on" also assumes that the cache owner knew what they were doing when they placed the cache, and then typed those coordinates correctly when submitting the Listing

[+BlueDeuce]

I guess it is important to log DNF's, Did Not Find's.

 

Absolutely.

 

Last month I went looking for a cache, 11' accuracy, took me straight to a metal picnic table. The cache was listed as a micro so I figured it was a magnetic nano.

 

No cache.

 

Hmmmm. Started checking the other nearby tables and found it at one 40 feet away.

 

Now was it moved? Maybe the owner was using 'soft coords'? Maybe the day I go looking 11' accuracy actually zero'd in to the wrong ground zero? Hard to say but if I hadn't found it I shouldn't assume the cache was missing.

 

You also might want to check out this thread. (just ignore the angsty parts)

They did not find it..., So it is not there!

 

Edit: also, if you look up gps accuracy information on the internet you'll see a lot of statements like:

 

These terms tell us the PROBABILITY that a particular measurement (GPS Measurements in the present examples) is MORE ACCURATE than some particular value. For instance, If you are told that your GPS position measurement is accurate to 10 meters CEP (Circular Error Probable), this means that there is a 50% probability that your measurement lies INSIDE a circle with a radius of 10 meters. This also means that there is a 50% probability that your measurement lies OUTSIDE the 10 meter radius circle!

 

Should you be told that your GPS measurement is accurate to within 25 meters (95% confidence), This means that you can be 95% sure that your measurement is somewhere within a 25 meter error circle and there is a 5% chance that the error is LARGER than 25 meters.

 

Edited December 31, 2009 by BlueDeuce

[+icesailor]

I guess it is important to log DNF's, Did Not Find's.

 

Absolutely.

 

Last month I went looking for a cache, 11' accuracy, took me straight to a metal picnic table. The cache was listed as a micro so I figured it was a magnetic nano.

 

No cache.

 

Hmmmm. Started check the other nearby tables and found it at one 40 feet away.

 

Now was it moved? Maybe the owner was using 'soft coords'? Maybe the day I go looking 11' accuracy actually zero'd in to the wrong ground zero? Hard to say but if I hadn't found it I shouldn't assume the cache was missing.

 

You also might want to check out this thread. (just ignore the angsty parts)

They did not find it..., So it is not there!

 

Edit: also, if you look up gps accuracy information on the internet you'll see a lot of statements like:

 

These terms tell us the PROBABILITY that a particular measurement (GPS Measurements in the present examples) is MORE ACCURATE than some particular value. For instance, If you are told that your GPS position measurement is accurate to 10 meters CEP (Circular Error Probable), this means that there is a 50% probability that your measurement lies INSIDE a circle with a radius of 10 meters. This also means that there is a 50% probability that your measurement lies OUTSIDE the 10 meter radius circle!

 

Should you be told that your GPS measurement is accurate to within 25 meters (95% confidence), This means that you can be 95% sure that your measurement is somewhere within a 25 meter error circle and there is a 5% chance that the error is LARGER than 25 meters.

 

 

Thanks for the link to the discussion. It is what I supposed. There sure is a lot of things I sure do agree with. The majority of my DNF's I felt were there. It's just that a few I felt just were missing. And they hadn't been found in a while. Like I said, I don't look for ones that would be a major physical challenge to me. So a lot may have been either moved, removed or whatever.

 

I think I will try to place a cache wherever I sail from this winter. Always on a lake somewhere where one can park and find. I have sailed in MA, NH, ME and VT.

 

Something else to do. So little time left to do it.

[+BlueDeuce]

Something else to do. So little time left to do it.

 

By the way, welcome to the addiction.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

<snip> I guess I'm supposed to log "no-finds" when I don't find them. <snip>

 

If you, and all the others that do not find a cache, do not post a "DNF" how is the CO to know that it may have an issue and needs to be checked? DNF postings are an important part of geocaching, not something to be overlooked.

 

Also, it's great that you sail all over, but I must ask you that if you sail all over and plant caches all over, how in the world do you intend to maintain them when they go missing or need other maintenance? Placing caches is not the game, placing and maintaining caches is the game.

 

You don't have very many finds as yet, perhaps there is a bit more to learn about geocaching.

 

Sorry if it seems I preach, but from what I read of your posts, you are missing some important aspects of the gist of geocaching.

 

Sailing and geocaching....... sounds like a good combo. Do enjoy and have fun.

[+icesailor]

Something else to do. So little time left to do it.

 

By the way, welcome to the addiction.

 

Yeah, just what I need. Another obsession.

[+icesailor]

<snip> I guess I'm supposed to log "no-finds" when I don't find them. <snip>

 

If you, and all the others that do not find a cache, do not post a "DNF" how is the CO to know that it may have an issue and needs to be checked? DNF postings are an important part of geocaching, not something to be overlooked.

 

Also, it's great that you sail all over, but I must ask you that if you sail all over and plant caches all over, how in the world do you intend to maintain them when they go missing or need other maintenance? Placing caches is not the game, placing and maintaining caches is the game.

 

You don't have very many finds as yet, perhaps there is a bit more to learn about geocaching.

 

Sorry if it seems I preach, but from what I read of your posts, you are missing some important aspects of the gist of geocaching.

 

Sailing and geocaching....... sounds like a good combo. Do enjoy and have fun.

 

I sail the same places every year when there is ice. Some places get sailed more often the closer to where I live. They are not dificult places and it is not like I drive hundreds of miles to get there. More than usually, it is under two hours. No one would have to go for a hike to find one. If I do place one. They would be in public places and NOT in a place that would be covered with snow or leaves.

 

The only stupid question is the question not asked.

 

I've "found" more than I show. I've found a lot of locations but didn't find the cache. I didn't find it. It doesn't mean it wasn't there. I'll go back and look again.

 

I was telling someone about Caching and the guy told me his son found one in the woods in a park on Cape Cod. I asked him what he did with it. Did he put it back like he found it? He replied that his son took it home. Caches placed in very public places (I think) may run a risk of being found and removed. Those are the ones I was asking about. The one in a dog park, that I went to twice, must be buried. I understood that you weren't supposed to be buried. That's all. And like I just read about one that I am going to look for, someone said to another, "Oh, that's why all those people are always going into the woods there. I thought they were going to relieve themselves". That's all.

[GermanSailor]

I am in FLA for Christmas and I have found a number of caches. I have also found the locations and most of the ones I didn't find, haven't been found in some time or they were difficult finds. However, some others were easy find and they just were not there. Is this common? Should I log these as not being found? I'm just not sure what the protocol is.

If you hunt, look, search, whatever you call it - for a geocache and don't find it - log a DNF. That's helpful to the owner and to the other geocachers. How is an owner supposed to find out that there might be something wrong with one of his or her geocaches?

 

People tend not to log DNF, sometimes you see that after a DNF, other DNF logs follow immediately. Seems to be a big problem to quickly write that one didn't find it.

 

Yes, in my opinion the best thing would be to log a DNF if you didn't find it.

 

GermanSailor

[+icesailor]

I am in FLA for Christmas and I have found a number of caches. I have also found the locations and most of the ones I didn't find, haven't been found in some time or they were difficult finds. However, some others were easy find and they just were not there. Is this common? Should I log these as not being found? I'm just not sure what the protocol is.

If you hunt, look, search, whatever you call it - for a geocache and don't find it - log a DNF. That's helpful to the owner and to the other geocachers. How is an owner supposed to find out that there might be something wrong with one of his or her geocaches?

 

People tend not to log DNF, sometimes you see that after a DNF, other DNF logs follow immediately. Seems to be a big problem to quickly write that one didn't find it.

 

Yes, in my opinion the best thing would be to log a DNF if you didn't find it.

 

GermanSailor

 

I looked for this one that started this again this AM, GCRA90 put there in 2005. I looked down on the history and there have been three no finds in 6 months by cachers far more experienced than I. But like I said before, if it is there, I usually find it or know it is there. I just didn't find it. In some cases though, I feel that it isn't there. A couple of locations have turned out to be not there. I have posted a few no finds I made in the past. I will also say that they may be there, that I just didn't find them. I've also been to locations that there were far too many strangers who would wonder what this old $@rt was dooing looking around where he was. So I leave. FWIW.

[+niraD]

If I get to ground zero and search for the cache, then I log either a Found or a DNF, depending on whether I found the cache. If I get to ground zero and don't search for some reason (too many muggles, too little time, whatever), then I often post a DNS ("Did Not Search") as a Note.

 

But looking at your profile, it seems you've found about a dozen caches. I'd wait until you've found a few more before declaring that "it isn't there" just because you can't find it, especially if the difficulty rating is high, or the size is listed as a micro. In particular, micro-caches can be a lot smaller than most new geocachers would imagine. Also, check out the Pictures - Cool Cache Containers (CCC's) to get an idea of what a cache might look like. Or search online to see what's available commercially.

[+kunarion]

Could the cordinates be wrong? The palm tree may have been cleaned of the dead leaves and the cache was removed.

One that you mentioned hasn’t been found since June, has a couple of recent DNFs from different people, the hint is pretty vague, and the Cache Owner hasn’t visited the website in almost a year. With that information, I would not expect to find it. The trip would be more of a survey expedition than a cache hunt, just to gather data. And I'd add my DNF if I can't find it.

 

If it’s a really cool spot, try to contact the CO. Maybe they can check on it, and place a new container. Or they may give you specific info about the hiding spot so you can check it and place a similar container. Or they might let you “adopt” the cache (if you’re interested).

 

Around here, it’s unusual for an “easy” micro to be idle for more than a couple of weeks. Since lots of folks won’t make a log when they can’t find a cache, if it has no logs for 6 months, it’s got issues. Your mileage may vary.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Something else to do. So little time left to do it.

 

By the way, welcome to the addiction.

 

Yeah, just what I need. Another obsession.

 

Well, at least for this obsession it's far less expensive than owning a sailboat, and the GPS will be pretty useful for sailing as well.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

When I look for caches, I always look to see when the last time someone found it. If no one has found it in a year or so, I don't bother. I haven't found it either. If someone found it in the last few months, it MAY be missing but I probably didn't find it. These are the caches I write about. Old caches that haven't been found in a while.

 

 

It's also worth checking the difficulty rating on a cache before making any assumptions about whether not it's there when you look for it. Some caches are just *really* hard to find (and intentionally so). The example that I frequently use is one called Shelter III, located in Indianapolis. It was placed in April 2006, has had only 3 finds and 200 DNFs logged. The owner frequently checks on it and confirms that it is there. It's rated as a Difficulty=5 and clearly deserves it.

[+icesailor]

Something else to do. So little time left to do it.

 

By the way, welcome to the addiction.

 

Yeah, just what I need. Another obsession.

 

Well, at least for this obsession it's far less expensive than owning a sailboat, and the GPS will be pretty useful for sailing as well.

 

Iceboats are/can be cheap. The wind is free. The whole rig fits inside my Ford E150 van with the mast on a roof rack. A power boat with a motor is far more expensive than any comparable sized sailboat.

 

We icesailors use our GPS's to keep track of our maximun speed for the day, distance sailed (you can get an award for sailing 100 miles in a day under the rules) and show where on a lake you have sailed.

 

There is a website for sailing speed records and a certain GPS must be used to get official recognition. I think it is gpssailing.com but if it isn't, I'll post the proper link.

 

Someone set the worlds sailing speed record on land on a dry lake in Nevada. They used 5 GPS's in back to verify the speed. They were all within .03 mph of each other as I remember. The speed was over 130 MPH.