Multi Caches and published coordinates

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

If I set a 3 part multi cache that has seven miles between the first cache and the final, then the coordinates I ask to be published must be between 1 and 2 miles of the final (rather than of the first cache) location? is that correct?

[+Delta68]

If I set a 3 part multi cache that has seven miles between the first cache and the final, then the coordinates I ask to be published must be between 1 and 2 miles of the final (rather than of the first cache) location? is that correct?

 

No!

 

The published co-ordinates for a Multi must be at the first location

The 1-2 mile rule is for Unknown/Puzzles

 

 

Mark

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

If I set a 3 part multi cache that has seven miles between the first cache and the final, then the coordinates I ask to be published must be between 1 and 2 miles of the final (rather than of the first cache) location? is that correct?

 

No!

 

The published co-ordinates for a Multi must be at the first location

The 1-2 mile rule is for Unknown/Puzzles

 

 

Mark

 

Ok - problem solved... So if its a 3 cache multi that's also a puzzle... then the unknown/puzzle ruling wins and the published coordinates must be within 1 or 2 miles of the final part?

[+keehotee]

If I set a 3 part multi cache that has seven miles between the first cache and the final, then the coordinates I ask to be published must be between 1 and 2 miles of the final (rather than of the first cache) location? is that correct?

 

No!

 

The published co-ordinates for a Multi must be at the first location

The 1-2 mile rule is for Unknown/Puzzles

 

 

Mark

 

Agree with the sentiment - but not the statement....

 

The published co-ords may be for parking co-ords rather than any stage of the multi...

[+Happy Humphrey]

The published co-ordinates for a Multi must be at the first location

The 1-2 mile rule is for Unknown/Puzzles

I'm sure that a reviewer will be able to confirm. But I believe that the rule applies to any cache type, so the final must be within a mile or so of the first stage. As it's a multi, the first stage will always be at the published coordinates (otherwise it will be a Mystery cache, but the same rule applies).

 

The reasoning is that a trackable could otherwise be physically in a totally different area (or state) from the coordinates, thus making the mileage meaningless.

[+Delta68]

Agree with the sentiment - but not the statement....

 

The published co-ords may be for parking co-ords rather than any stage of the multi...

 

That used to be the case but the reviewers are tightening up on this:

 

I'm sure Deci won't mind me quoting him...

 

For a Multi cache we've been instructed to tighten up and insure the coordinates at the top of the page are those of the First Stage, and not Parking/Virtual waypoints.

 

By 'virtual' he means random co-ords that may be used for Puzzles

[+Delta68]

 

...But I believe that the rule applies to any cache type, so the final must be within a mile or so of the first stage....

 

 

Hmm... that effectively says that Multis of more than a couple of mile aren't allowed (unless it's a circular walk)

 

I'm not sure that is intended....

 

Edited to add:

 

Ok - problem solved... So if its a 3 cache multi that's also a puzzle... then the unknown/puzzle ruling wins and the published coordinates must be within 1 or 2 miles of the final part?

 

IMHO, in this instance, the starting point should be within 1-3 miles of the published co-ords

Makes it easier when you plan to go to an area and want to see what puzzles nearby to solve in advance.

 

I think the guidelines were to prevent people setting a puzzle cache where the final location is the result of a solving a puzzle but putting fake co-ords miles and miles from the final location.

 

 

 

Mark

Edited December 23, 2009 by Delta68

[+purple_pineapple]

 

...But I believe that the rule applies to any cache type, so the final must be within a mile or so of the first stage....

 

 

Hmm... that effectively says that Multis of more than a couple of mile aren't allowed (unless it's a circular walk)

 

I'm not sure that is intended....

 

Edited to add:

 

Ok - problem solved... So if its a 3 cache multi that's also a puzzle... then the unknown/puzzle ruling wins and the published coordinates must be within 1 or 2 miles of the final part?

 

IMHO, in this instance, the starting point should be within 1-3 miles of the published co-ords

Makes it easier when you plan to go to an area and want to see what puzzles nearby to solve in advance.

 

I think the guidelines were to prevent people setting a puzzle cache where the final location is the result of a solving a puzzle but putting fake co-ords miles and miles from the final location.

 

Mark

 

agree completely!

 

In reality, I can't see why you would want the top coords to be MORE than 1-3 miles away from the first stage! Even if the top coords are a car park, I would have thought the first stage could be within 3 miles!

 

FWIW, I've always found our esteemed reviewers are good at using common sense and discretion - so that a puzzle cache where the final is further away than the recommend guideline can be allowed, if it would ruin the puzzle by being any closer. I have one in this category, and many of the Surrey X Marks series would be spoilt if you knew the final ws close to the top.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[+Graculus]

When I Reviewed the cache it was a Mystery type which is why I asked for the change to the cords.

 

Chris

Graculus Volunteer UK reviewer..... in a restaurant on my way to Cornwall (funnily enough)

from my iPhone

[Deceangi]

Agree with the sentiment - but not the statement....

 

The published co-ords may be for parking co-ords rather than any stage of the multi...

 

That used to be the case but the reviewers are tightening up on this:

 

I'm sure Deci won't mind me quoting him...

 

For a Multi cache we've been instructed to tighten up and insure the coordinates at the top of the page are those of the First Stage, and not Parking/Virtual waypoints.

 

By 'virtual' he means random co-ords that may be used for Puzzles

 

Nope I don't mind saves me having to write the reply .

 

Deci

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

Sorry - I wasn't clear... It is a mystery cache, but it involves 3 caches, i.e. solve a puzzle, find a cache which gives coordinates to a second which in turn gives coordinates for a final.

 

It's my mistake, my apologies, I should have checked before planning the cache that it would be acceptable - it isn't - fair enough.

 

I'll just print it out and hand it locally - problem solved.

 

and Merry Xmas to One and All

[+drdick&vick]

Does the first cache you find, after solving the puzzle, have a log book in it.

If so is it within the limit specified from the listed co-ords.

 

If so then surely that is the puzzle bit and the other two caches are simply parts of a multi.

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

Does the first cache you find, after solving the puzzle, have a log book in it.

If so is it within the limit specified from the listed co-ords.

 

If so then surely that is the puzzle bit and the other two caches are simply parts of a multi.

 

Nope - there is no log until the final part.

[+Amberel]

Sorry - I wasn't clear... It is a mystery cache, but it involves 3 caches, i.e. solve a puzzle, find a cache which gives coordinates to a second which in turn gives coordinates for a final.

 

It's my mistake, my apologies, I should have checked before planning the cache that it would be acceptable - it isn't - fair enough.

 

I'll just print it out and hand it locally - problem solved.

 

and Merry Xmas to One and All

Put it on OpenCaching .

 

And Happy Christmas to you.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+Happy Humphrey]

 

...But I believe that the rule applies to any cache type, so the final must be within a mile or so of the first stage....

 

 

Hmm... that effectively says that Multis of more than a couple of mile aren't allowed (unless it's a circular walk)

 

I'm not sure that is intended....

Just to clarify that one...yes that "effectively says that Multis of more than a couple of mile aren't allowed (unless it's a circular walk)". So if you set a multicache you'll have to bring the cache seeker back to within 1-2 miles of the first part. I may be wrong, but I've assumed this because of the "Mystery or Puzzle Caches" guideline which states;

Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 km) away from the true cache location. This allows the cache to show up on the proper vicinity searches and to keep the mileage of trackables that find their way into the cache reasonably correct.

That surely has to apply equally to multi-caches, which will also need to "keep the mileage of trackables that find their way into the cache reasonably correct"? Otherwise, you could set a multi-cache which has the coordinates in Cornwall but with the final cache in Inverness. Which might be fun in some ways but would draw complaints from those obsessed with travel bug mileage (and those that didn't realise that they couldn't find the cache in a day!).

Edited December 23, 2009 by Happy Humphrey

[+keehotee]

Agree with the sentiment - but not the statement....

 

The published co-ords may be for parking co-ords rather than any stage of the multi...

 

That used to be the case but the reviewers are tightening up on this:

 

I'm sure Deci won't mind me quoting him...

 

For a Multi cache we've been instructed to tighten up and insure the coordinates at the top of the page are those of the First Stage, and not Parking/Virtual waypoints.

 

By 'virtual' he means random co-ords that may be used for Puzzles

 

Nope I don't mind saves me having to write the reply .

 

Deci

 

How would the reviewers apply the 1-2 miles limit to bonus caches? (ie - co-ords to a bonus cache hidden in 2 or more other caches)

[+dino-irl]

The 1-2miles/2-3km distance guideline only applies to Mystery/Puzzle caches and I agree that it doesn't correspond to the reasoning given in the guidelines.

 

The posted coords of a Mystery/Puzzle can be anywhere and for anything but must be within that distance of the final location.

 

The posted coordinates of a Multi must be for the first stage.

[+JeremyR]

I wasn't confused when I opened this thread but I sure am now!

 

The posted coords of a Mystery/Puzzle can be anywhere and for anything but must be within that distance of the final location.

So, what you're saying is that a puzzle cache with multiple stages can't end more than 2 miles from it's published coords? What if it's a long one? That could mean that the listed coords are well over 2 miles from the starting location.

 

Surely in the case of a multi-puzzle cache, the most common sense solution is that the listed coords should be at or near the first stage ('near' if the puzzle part is to work out the first location), in the same way that multi caches are handled?

 

Do reviewers have any case-by-case discretion on this one, as with the 160m rule?

[+dino-irl]

I wasn't confused when I opened this thread but I sure am now!

 

The posted coords of a Mystery/Puzzle can be anywhere and for anything but must be within that distance of the final location.

So, what you're saying is that a puzzle cache with multiple stages can't end more than 2 miles from it's published coords? What if it's a long one? That could mean that the listed coords are well over 2 miles from the starting location.

 

Surely in the case of a multi-puzzle cache, the most common sense solution is that the listed coords should be at or near the first stage ('near' if the puzzle part is to work out the first location), in the same way that multi caches are handled?

 

Do reviewers have any case-by-case discretion on this one, as with the 160m rule?

If it's a multi then why not designate it as a multi?

 

It's highly unusual to allow final locations more than the stipulated distance from the posted coordinates of a "?" but there are some that have been posted.

[+Happy Humphrey]

If it's a multi then why not designate it as a multi?

You can't if the listed coordinates are not exactly those for the first stage.

 

One thing you know about any multi-cache is that you can go to the listed coordinates and find something which will lead to the next stage. So if it's otherwise a multi-cache but the first stage is not at the coordinates, it has to be listed as a Mystery cache.

 

On the "bonus cache" question, there's no such thing really. It's just a normal, independent "Mystery" cache (albeit with a particular and standardised technique for finding it), so as long as the coordinates aren't more than 1-2 miles from the container it'll be fine.

 

So, what you're saying is that a puzzle cache with multiple stages can't end more than 2 miles from it's published coords? What if it's a long one? That could mean that the listed coords are well over 2 miles from the starting location.

If it's a long one, it has to finish close to the start. That doesn't necessarily make it short (sounds like something that belongs in a Christmas panto!).

Edited December 23, 2009 by Happy Humphrey

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

I've reluctantly posted my original cache elsewhere now, so for me that problem is solved.

 

I didn't list it as a multi because it's a puzzle and there isn't a Multi/Puzzle option.

 

I've placed a series of Xmas puzzle caches that have, by tradition, used, every year, a feature of the local landscape as a hiding spot. If I had to give coordinates that were within 2 miles of the final hide, most cachers could work out roughly where it was, using an OS map/Memor Map/Google Earth, in a few minutes.

 

I thought that by using a series of caches, as I have in previous years, that I could publish coordinates that wouldn't narrow down the hiding spot anywhere near as much.

 

At least I now know that next year, I need to come up with an even more devious plan and maybe to move away from using a so obvious "feature of the local landscape".

[+Happy Humphrey]

I know that caches like that have been published in the past, after making special arrangements with the reviewer. The guidelines are guidelines, not rules.

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

I know that caches like that have been published in the past, after making special arrangements with the reviewer. The guidelines are guidelines, not rules.

Yep - as I've already said - I should have checked with a reviewer before I started... my mistake, I know for the future now.

[Neath Worthies]

I've reluctantly posted my original cache elsewhere now, so for me that problem is solved.

Where? Can you provide us with a link?

[+purple_pineapple]

I know that caches like that have been published in the past, after making special arrangements with the reviewer. The guidelines are guidelines, not rules.

 

indeed, and this sounds a prime example! Another of mine has a Google Earth image on the cache page. Your task is to find the image in real life. Obviously, If the top coords were within 1-2 miles, this would be VERY easy, so instead they're about 10 miles away!

 

IMHO, so long as you make it clear (first line of description eg) that the cache is a long way from the top coords, then there shouldn't be an issue. Does anyone really get bothered if their TB mileage is out by 10 miles after if has covered maybe 20,000 miles?!

[+Amberel]

I've reluctantly posted my original cache elsewhere now, so for me that problem is solved.

Where? Can you provide us with a link?

It's on OpenCaching http://www.opencaching.org.uk/ . Apologies to Groundspeak, but in the circumstances it seems reasonable to post it here, and it's Christmas .

 

In this case I think the Groundspeak problem has arisen because it's both a multi AND a puzzle, and there is no cache type that encompasses both. The reviewers therefore have to try to apply guidelines that may not fit very well.

 

Rgds, Andy

[Neath Worthies]

Thanks for that Amberel, I've had a look and it seems like a great idea for a cache, very inventive especially at this time of the year.

 

It's a shame that Groundspeak doesn't have the flexibility to allow such a fun cache to be listed on their website. Still their loss is Opencaching's gain. Seems like a lot of fuss over a hunt for a little hidden box but if "computer says no.........."

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

Thanks for that Amberel, I've had a look and it seems like a great idea for a cache, very inventive especially at this time of the year.

 

It's a shame that Groundspeak doesn't have the flexibility to allow such a fun cache to be listed on their website. Still their loss is Opencaching's gain. Seems like a lot of fuss over a hunt for a little hidden box but if "computer says no.........."

 

To be fair, I think Groundspeak do have the flexibility, I should have thought about the possible issues well before hand and asked a few weeks back, rather than waiting till 3 days before Xmas - I'll be better prepared next time.