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Need help with a multi-stage cache...


sicariusdracus
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Yesterday, I received a treasure map from a Geocacher's gift exchange and a challenge (along with materials to complete the challenge!): Make a night cache with fire tacks. I used the treasure map and I, along with my crew in tow, followed it to its bitter end. All in all, the trek was about three miles, but it only yielded one ammo box at the end. :D Along the way, there were 4 projections (where you pick up the trail by walking in a straight line to the next start.) which, to us, seemed like a micro or a small, treasure-less cache should have been placed. Actually, we spent close to half an hour searching for (1), when it was simply just a projection.

 

So, really, I have a few questions and hopefully you'll be able to share some insight on them:

 

1. The first and foremost question is: Instead of providing a single cache at the end, is it possible to have 4 caches all along the path they take? For example,

OKH2h.jpg

shows the intended path and and the locations of the caches I'd like to put down. What is the best way of posting the caches so that I can reward cachers for going the distance, instead of just finding the end point, and one smiley for what I consider an awful lot of work and energy? Should I make the last a multicache, and just put singles along the way? that's really the only way I figure it would work. But I'd also like to have projections like the one I visited, and have the projection coordinates inside the treasure-less. (Kind of like a series with a finale?)

 

2. I want to do something rather special for this journey. Please, let me know some cool things you've seen in your night caches that I could use. I've seen some cool usages of solar powered light poles... is there other things that I could use on my journey?

 

3. What is the best way to place the firetacks so that they'll have the highest visibility? The cache I went to had parts where we could see down the line, and others where you had to be on top of the mark to see the next... Should I mark them with strange glyphs (or braille!) to inform them how to next proceed, or just let them wander?

 

Thanks for the info. I'd really like to nail down the multi-single cache thing, so I can decide how to proceed. What's the point of making someone go for 5 hours for just one cache? I feel it wouldn't draw people to want to come, and ultimately wasting a lot of manhours which will be required for such a cache.

 

Thanks,

SicariusDracus

 

(P.S. The course I've laid out for the map is obviously fake, and I've rearranged the cache locations, so no cheating!)

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Three tips:

 

1. The minimum separation between caches is 528 feet - the radius of your circles should be 528 not 265.

 

2. If the collective cache experience looks and feels like a multicache, the reviewer may ask you to list it as a single multicache. For example, if you set up four "chain linked" puzzles where the only way to find cache 2 was to find cache 1, the only way to find cache 3 was to find cache 2 -- that quacks like a multi. That's especially true if all the caches are in a single park or forest.

 

If you wish to avoid a single multicache, have the first three caches be traditionals that are independent of one another, meaning they can be found in any order. In each of the three caches, include a clue or a piece of the coordinates for the final "bonus" cache, which you would list as a "mystery/puzzle."

 

3. For night caches, take care to avoid overlapping firetack trails, or having trail two begin right after cache one. If it's one continuous firetack trail, that would drive towards a single multicache label.

Edited by Keystone
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What's the point of making someone go for 5 hours for just one cache?

Because some folks will truly and honestly thank you for the adventure. :D

(Including me!)

Several of my hides will take you the better part of a day, (or night), to find.

Judging by the logs, folks seem to enjoy them.

 

As for the rest of your concerns, Keystone laid them out better than I could.

One suggestion I would add: Prior to doing all the legwork, talk to your local reviewer.

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1. The minimum separation between caches is 528 feet - the radius of your circles should be 528 not 265.

 

No, the diameter of my circles should be 528, with a radius of d/2 = 264. The circles, touching, are 530 feet from centerpoint to centerpoint. I added 2 feet as a buffer for gps inaccuracy.

Your way works too. Just making sure!

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1. The minimum separation between caches is 528 feet - the radius of your circles should be 528 not 265.

 

No, the diameter of my circles should be 528, with a radius of d/2 = 264. The circles, touching, are 530 feet from centerpoint to centerpoint. I added 2 feet as a buffer for gps inaccuracy.

 

You might want to add more like 30 feet.

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Sadly, the size of the circles are not what I'm trying to get figured out. I could care less about the specifics of the placements of my cache. the image is simply to highlight what I plan on doing with the cache, a 'visual', if you will.

 

I'm not really comfortable with the multicache 1 smiley for the amount of work put into it; which is why I've come to the place where I figured I would get some potential solutions, not sidetracked.

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If you wish to avoid a single multicache, have the first three caches be traditionals that are independent of one another, meaning they can be found in any order. In each of the three caches, include a clue or a piece of the coordinates for the final "bonus" cache, which you would list as a "mystery/puzzle."

 

I did a series of caches like that. The Virtual Chili cache can be derived from visiting the nearby Hamburger Earmuffs, Sarcasm Detector and Frog Exaggerator caches.

 

An excuse to hide urban micros - but not PnG's

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Three tips:

 

1. The minimum separation between caches is 528 feet - the radius of your circles should be 528 not 265.

 

2. If the collective cache experience looks and feels like a multicache, the reviewer may ask you to list it as a single multicache. For example, if you set up four "chain linked" puzzles where the only way to find cache 2 was to find cache 1, the only way to find cache 3 was to find cache 2 -- that quacks like a multi. That's especially true if all the caches are in a single park or forest.

 

If you wish to avoid a single multicache, have the first three caches be traditionals that are independent of one another, meaning they can be found in any order. In each of the three caches, include a clue or a piece of the coordinates for the final "bonus" cache, which you would list as a "mystery/puzzle."

 

3. For night caches, take care to avoid overlapping firetack trails, or having trail two begin right after cache one. If it's one continuous firetack trail, that would drive towards a single multicache label.

 

So this is common knowledge about the "chain linked" caches? I have 8 chainlinked caches I spent months on and just tried to publish, and I don't really think I could do a multi because from first cache to last cache it's about 80 miles of driving. If they are traditionals, no one will read the story I left inside, and will see the story in the cache and ignore it.

 

I didn't know anything about this rule. :-( Why isn't it listed?

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The "rule" (guideline) is derived from the "Cache Types" definitions.

 

Hmm...I just read them again and I still don't see it. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to find a way to keep this idea alive. It can't serve as a multi because it goes too many miles. The "puzzle" that needs to be solved is just visiting the previous cache in the series. It's like a multi, yes, but it's eight completely different caches more than 5 miles apart apiece, and requires lots of driving. Each location was chosen, as well as the fake location listed on the cache page, very meticulously, and over the course of months. I wrote the fictional journal logs of a fictional character and rewrote them over a few weeks after I finally chose the locations, and each story conforms to each location.

 

If it's set up as a multi, it's too far. If it's traditionals, no one will read the story, which is the entire point, and relies upon each person reading each piece in chronological/series order, which they will no longer do. It works as a puzzle, I think, since they can have additional waypoints.

 

It seems to me like the entire point of not allowing this is to prevent entire series from being more or less kaput because of one stage missing. But that's true of all multis. Is it less acceptable to disable 8 different caches at once than 1? I mean, I would be the one disabling them myself. Shouldn't my effort be my concern? I mean, if it suffers consistent problems then yeah, archive it, but I just don't get why hitting disable once is that much better than hitting it 8 times, in the event that it happens.

 

Sorry, I don't mean to come off angry, I'm just confused and put so much effort into this and so many cachers told me it would be a great idea and now it can't jump off the ground.

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See, that's the kind of thing I want to do, albeit within a much smaller space. I like the "chain" concept, rather than the "series" concept. In chris' scenario it would be bad to lose one, but mine will have an independent tracking (the fire tacks) as method to finding the caches (with projection to fulfill the GPS requirement). I guess my idea defies the concept, simply because I'm not happy with a multicache, and I don't think it fits the archetype.

 

Chris, keep going with your idea. Turn em all into puzzles (which looks like what I'm going to have to do as well) and then chain em.

Edited by sicariusdracus
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If it's set up as a multi, it's too far.

There is no maximum distance limit, except perhaps in your own aesthetics and those of your local caching community. There are many examples of long distance multicaches.

 

Yeah, I got that same answer from my reviewer. Once he said he didn't care that it was 80 miles, I was all for it. I've made the changes.

 

Thanks for y'all's help. :-)

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Anyway, whatever. just lock the topic. I've given up the challenge and I'm not even going to do it anymore. Thank you for your dissuasion, you've helped me see the light of not putting as much work into my caches as I would have before. I'll just stick to skirt lifting micros.

Edited by sicariusdracus
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3. What is the best way to place the firetacks so that they'll have the highest visibility? The cache I went to had parts where we could see down the line, and others where you had to be on top of the mark to see the next... Should I mark them with strange glyphs (or braille!) to inform them how to next proceed, or just let them wander?

 

Hey, what are fire tacks and where can I get them? I think I did a night cache once that used fire tacks, but I'm not sure. I didn't know what they were at the time. They were square, seemed to be light brown in color (at night) and were EXTREMELY bright when you shined a light at them.

 

Is that them?

 

And where can I go buy those? And how much are they?

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3. What is the best way to place the firetacks so that they'll have the highest visibility? The cache I went to had parts where we could see down the line, and others where you had to be on top of the mark to see the next... Should I mark them with strange glyphs (or braille!) to inform them how to next proceed, or just let them wander?

 

Hey, what are fire tacks and where can I get them? I think I did a night cache once that used fire tacks, but I'm not sure. I didn't know what they were at the time. They were square, seemed to be light brown in color (at night) and were EXTREMELY bright when you shined a light at them.

 

Is that them?

 

And where can I go buy those? And how much are they?

 

There are reflective tacks you can buy in any hunting department. These are usually inexpensive. The problem with these is that they are very easy to see in the daylight, so cachers can easily turn what is supposed to be a night cache into a daylight find.

 

Then there are true Fire Tacks, a brand of reflective tacks. The Stealth Bright model of Fire Tacks are difficult to see in the daylight, so work nicely for night caches. They are on the pricey side though.

Edited by briansnat
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Anyway, whatever. just lock the topic. I've given up the challenge and I'm not even going to do it anymore. Thank you for your dissuasion, you've helped me see the light of not putting as much work into my caches as I would have before. I'll just stick to skirt lifting micros.

 

You have a good idea that can work with some tweaking. Why not work with your local reviewer to bring it off instead of taking your ball and going home?

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The "rule" (guideline) is derived from the "Cache Types" definitions.

 

If it's traditionals, no one will read the story, which is the entire point, and relies upon each person reading each piece in chronological/series order, which they will no longer do.

 

There is a way to do a series of traditionals, and make sure most people read the story.

 

You just have to put something at the top of each cache page that says "Part of the <name here> cache series. This is number x of y, and will be much more fun if you have done a, b, and c first." Put them all in a bookmark list to make it easier for anyone who looks at a cache page to find the others in the series.

 

Make the final a puzzle cache, with pieces of the coordinates distributed among the other caches so that they all must be found before the final can be located.

 

Each cache then CAN be completed as an individual cache, but most cachers will want to do all of them.

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Anyway, whatever. just lock the topic. I've given up the challenge and I'm not even going to do it anymore. Thank you for your dissuasion, you've helped me see the light of not putting as much work into my caches as I would have before. I'll just stick to skirt lifting micros.

 

lol...don't get that discouraged man. I just traded a traditional and 7 mysteries for 1 multi. Yeah, I don't get quite as much advertisement through notifications across different regions of northeast texas, but my idea is still completely intact and out in the field as I intended it.

 

Additionally, I can serve as people's 1/5 cache, which I imagine are quite hard to come by.

 

So yeah, I compromised, but my entire cache series is still intact exactly I intended it, except in terms of its visibility to other cachers. Also, I'm wondering if I need to go remove each of the extra geocaching logs....probably. :-s Whoops.

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I think what you're trying to do is to give a reward or sense of accomplishment at the various stages.

 

Consider having people pick up clues along the way that will eventually give the information needed to find the final cache. This gives people a sense of making actual progress as they move from stage to stage, and makes the whole endeavor more interesting.

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Anyway, whatever. just lock the topic. I've given up the challenge and I'm not even going to do it anymore. Thank you for your dissuasion, you've helped me see the light of not putting as much work into my caches as I would have before. I'll just stick to skirt lifting micros.

 

lol...don't get that discouraged man. I just traded a traditional and 7 mysteries for 1 multi. Yeah, I don't get quite as much advertisement through notifications across different regions of northeast texas, but my idea is still completely intact and out in the field as I intended it.

 

Additionally, I can serve as people's 1/5 cache, which I imagine are quite hard to come by.

 

So yeah, I compromised, but my entire cache series is still intact exactly I intended it, except in terms of its visibility to other cachers. Also, I'm wondering if I need to go remove each of the extra geocaching logs....probably. :-s Whoops.

 

I've never really thought about it till now but a 1/5 traditional cache would be pretty hard to create using true coords and keeping the terr/diff accurate.

 

It would have to be a micro or nano, one would think. It might be interesting to figure out how one would make one (aside from the this one http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...c1-2ec393a27c3d that would have been a 1/5 if the ground had been flat).

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Anyway, whatever. just lock the topic. I've given up the challenge and I'm not even going to do it anymore. Thank you for your dissuasion, you've helped me see the light of not putting as much work into my caches as I would have before. I'll just stick to skirt lifting micros.

 

lol...don't get that discouraged man. I just traded a traditional and 7 mysteries for 1 multi. Yeah, I don't get quite as much advertisement through notifications across different regions of northeast texas, but my idea is still completely intact and out in the field as I intended it.

 

Additionally, I can serve as people's 1/5 cache, which I imagine are quite hard to come by.

 

So yeah, I compromised, but my entire cache series is still intact exactly I intended it, except in terms of its visibility to other cachers. Also, I'm wondering if I need to go remove each of the extra geocaching logs....probably. :-s Whoops.

 

I've never really thought about it till now but a 1/5 traditional cache would be pretty hard to create using true coords and keeping the terr/diff accurate.

 

It would have to be a micro or nano, one would think. It might be interesting to figure out how one would make one (aside from the this one http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...c1-2ec393a27c3d that would have been a 1/5 if the ground had been flat).

 

I think you did this once before when we were talking about caches. You mixed up the diff/terr again. A 5/1 is extremely good camo that is handicap accessible. A 1/5 is an uncamo'd 5 gallon bucket at the top of mount everest. But I do get what you're saying. To make a true version of ANYthing is tough, especially for the numbers to be so different.

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I think you did this once before when we were talking about caches. You mixed up the diff/terr again. A 5/1 is extremely good camo that is handicap accessible. A 1/5 is an uncamo'd 5 gallon bucket at the top of mount everest. But I do get what you're saying. To make a true version of ANYthing is tough, especially for the numbers to be so different.

 

Thats what happens sometimes with me being dyslexic in one eye.

 

:rolleyes:

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