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Official Geocaching.com APP for Android phones


SunshineGang

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Is there any update to what Jeremy said last April:

 

"Once we "perfect" the iPhone application we'll likely expand to other mobile software development kits but we don't expect to write anything for the G1 anytime in the near future."

 

Although there is a ways to go before the iPhone app is perfected (at least in my experience) perhaps the new droid releases have convinced them otherwise. Or perhaps their assessment of the iPhone app differs than mine.

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Some thoughts: There are a handful of free and paid Android apps for Geocaching. For GC to develop an "official" app as they did for the iPhone, there'd have to be a profit opportunity. No matter how many folks come to these forums and say "It's sure be cool if..." the real driving force will probably be how many users fill out account their profiles on GC.com to indicate they own a Motorola Droid or other Android powered device.

 

As I type this, there are 446 self-declared Droid-wielding geocachers (ref: http://www.geocaching.com/reviews/gps_motorola_droid ) -- something less than 1/70th the number of self-declared iPhone-wielding geocachers.

Edited by lee_rimar
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im sorry, but where in that link shows active dev. for a GC.com app?

 

real seller for me, even though WHEN (will happen) I switch to droid, my sprint SERO plan is gone ( 500 min, unlimited everything, pick 5, T.E.P. and tax = $32 a MO.

The link was merely confirming the rumor that GC is working on an app. Nothing was asked if it was for sale yet. Perhaps you misread the OP and took the answer out of context?

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As I type this, there are 446 self-declared Droid-wielding geocachers (ref: http://www.geocaching.com/reviews/gps_motorola_droid ) -- something less than 1/70th the number of self-declared iPhone-wielding geocachers.

 

You fail to mention the 1500+ registered G1 users. Given the fact that every major carrier either already has an android phone, or has one on the books, it is a bit of a pain to figure out exactly how many Android users we have here on the board. It *is* clear however, that it is a much larger growing market than pulling up one model of phone can show. it may not have the wildfire adoption rate of the iphone, but its showing steady groeth, every quarter, comfortably eating away at WinMo, BB, iPhone and Symbians market shares.

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As an Android user I would love to see a buggy-free app put out by GC. I have zero app development skills but one question that comes to mind is this: do all the different model Android phones combined with the differences of various carrier programming hamper app development? Or is this irrelevant to the development process?

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You fail to mention the 1500+ registered G1 users.
Yes, you're right. I realized after I posted that just pulling out the one model that's getting prominent press coverage wasn't complete enough. FWIW though, the G1 was the platform Jeremy Irish specifically commented about when he said Android wasn't worth developing for. That was back in April though, and things may have changed.

 

... bit of a pain to figure out exactly how many Android users we have here on the board.
Yes, and I didn't even try. I'd really like a better way to dig into review counts and some other info on GC.com -- but haven't figure out a way to do it without a lot of manual tedium or automated routines that would get me kicked for TOS violations. Edited by lee_rimar
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There may be a good sized community of Android pack'in Geocachers whom would eagerly love to get an official Geocaching app, but I wonder how many of them would quietly withdraw from the line-up if the new app had a one-time $ expense. Would most (all?) potential customers stay in line even if a one-time $5-10 was requested? That would make an interesting survey question provided everyone would answer honestly.

 

And this question isn't limited to just Android.. I assume the same is true for every O/S PDA platform. Heck a lot of people don't even want to pay for maps for their GPSr anymore..

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Yes, that's true for the iPhone as well - folks complain about the one-time $10 charge for the app.

 

On the PC/Mac side, DeLorme's Cache Register is $10 also. I don't know if that business decision was based on DeLorme looking at the GC iPhone app pricing and thinking "that's what we should do" -- or if some backdoor agreement with Groundspeak to use the API required it.

 

In any case, I have a feeling that a Groundspeak-provided app will come in at about the same price - and the same sort of folks who think everything should be free will complain.

Edited by lee_rimar
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Yes, that's true for the iPhone as well - folks complain about the one-time $10 charge for the app.

 

On the PC/Mac side, DeLorme's Cache Register is $10 also. I don't know if that business decision was based on DeLorme looking at the GC iPhone app pricing and thinking "that's what we should do" -- or if some backdoor agreement with Groundspeak to use the API required it.

 

In any case, I have a feeling that a Groundspeak-provided app will come in at about the same price - and the same sort of folks who think everything should be free will complain.

 

Good points all. Don't get me wrong, I recognize that the iphone controls the lions share of the market, but I am very impressed with how Android has been eating away at it, at a very steady pace.

 

I think the question of a GC.com app on Android is a very valid one. A number of devs have stated that Androids market is not nearly as lucrative as the iPhones, and not just because of adoption rate. Android users haven't seemed to embrace paid apps as much as iPhone users have. Part of this may be from the fact that it's more of the Linux of phones, and thus appeal to the people out there who are more likely to tinker with their hardware and find "free" alternative solutions. I think that with the mainstreaming of the platform, via phones like the MyTouch 3G, and the Droid, that perception will slowly change.

 

I'm not entirely sure how well some of the android apps like CacheMate and GeoDroid have sold, but i know GeoBeagle, even with its more sparse feature set, has an overwhelming number of advocates, largely due to its (free) price point.

 

At this point, I think that any developer would be foolish to discount Android as a viable platform. It's just not going away, and with it becoming more mainstream, and less niche, the Marketplace is only going to solidify itself for app development.

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...I think that any developer would be foolish to discount Android as a viable platform.
It depends on if the phones are in the hands of users a developer wants to reach. A million Android phones in the world overall wouldn't necessarily be a good reason to make a Geocaching app. But a few thousand in the hands of Geocachers might be.

 

One of the points I tried to make the other day is that GC.com already has a built-in mechanism to gauge how large their specific market could be for any device: The "devices owned" that users report for themselves in their user profiles. The numbers reported there should give Groundspeak an idea of when the potential market is enough to make it worth doing.

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On point here.

 

One of the reasons that the Android app phones are taking off is that it is open source. Many of the apps you get for android platform are free. And I mean FREE. iPhone and Blackberry have very few free apps in comparison.

 

Adding another app, just because it's a goicaching official app, at a cost isn't going to draw in much of a share. Geobeagle is free and, though I find it lacking, will do the job. And did I mention it's FREE?

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...I think that any developer would be foolish to discount Android as a viable platform.
It depends on if the phones are in the hands of users a developer wants to reach. A million Android phones in the world overall wouldn't necessarily be a good reason to make a Geocaching app. But a few thousand in the hands of Geocachers might be.

 

One of the points I tried to make the other day is that GC.com already has a built-in mechanism to gauge how large their specific market could be for any device: The "devices owned" that users report for themselves in their user profiles. The numbers reported there should give Groundspeak an idea of when the potential market is enough to make it worth doing.

 

A valid point, however in the case of this debate, it may not be the best argument, given the number of Android owners who have already said that we use our Androids as our primary, or secondary caching device, but are still seeking the killer app. Were there no polished apps for the iPhone that had the ability to tie directly into gc.com, I theorize that you would not see nearly as many iphones listed as primary or secondary devices that they are now.

 

It is difficult, on a corporate level, at times, to justify the risk, but visionaries are the ones who create and cultivate a market where there isn't yet one, or one is waiting to grow with the right catalyst.

Edited by maggi101
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Maggi101,

 

This is a classic "which came first?" riddle.

 

Were there no polished apps for the iPhone that had the ability to tie directly into gc.com, I theorize that you would not see nearly as many iphones listed as primary or secondary devices that they are now.
This is a theory that could be tested - though only Groundspeak has direct access to the data and may not be willing to share it here.

 

One possible test: At the moment, there are something over 33000 iPhones reported as owned/used by geocachers. Compare the number of GC apps sold (call that number X) against that number of iPhones. What value for X would you expect if your theory is correct? It's have to be a major fraction of the total iPhone number -- because if relatively few users have the app, then something else is driving iPhone use for geocaching.

 

Another possible test: Track GC app sales over time against number of users reporting iPhone owned/used for geocaching. For example, since the beginning of October, the number of iPhones reported in use by geocachers increased by over 8000 units. If your theory is correct, should GC have sold close to that many copies of their iPhone app in the same period?

 

It's all guesswork unless Groundspeak shares their sales numbers here, and I kinda doubt they'll do that.

 

But what's your guess?

Edited by lee_rimar
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Hi on 12/07/09 I sent this email;

 

Hi,

My friends and I were wondering if you have an app for the android users like you do for the IPhone? we would all like to buy if it is available!

Thank You,

 

On 12/08/09 I got this reply;

 

Howard,

 

At this point we do not have an app for the android phone. This may change in the future.

 

Thank you,

 

Michael

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

 

Not a very good reply? :laughing:

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Well, at least GC.com speaks with one voice ...

 

GC.com lackeys in other parts of these forums say it's development, twitter feed says coming, email reps say not now but may change in the future.

 

Yes, this all points to the same, indisputable answer: It might be available someday.

 

The email rep didn't say it wasn't in development, they just said it wasn't available right now.

 

I think the correct answer is: It will be available someday.

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Hi on 12/07/09 I sent this email;

 

Hi,

My friends and I were wondering if you have an app for the android users like you do for the IPhone? we would all like to buy if it is available!

Thank You,

 

On 12/08/09 I got this reply;

 

Howard,

 

At this point we do not have an app for the android phone. This may change in the future.

 

Thank you,

 

Michael

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

 

Not a very good reply? :D

It was the correct answer. You just didn't ask the right question.

 

You asked if it was available. The answer is "No, it isn't available."

 

You should have asked is there a Droid app in development?

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Exactly. Only Groundspeak and their licensees have access to the "live" database. All third party apps have access to only what's in a PQ (with both the benefits and limitations of that) or access to the live site only within a carefully defined way that doesn't violate the Terms of Use.

 

For example, without a PQ, my read of the TOU is that it's OK for an app to generate a URL based on your current location and take you to the official web page that you as a human can read that shows you the nearest unfound caches, but it couldn't collect the coords for the nearest 20 caches to you to plop them into a map or automate the loading of those cache pages. (We could split hairs that a human driving a modern web browser is also "automated means", but let's not.)

 

Running with PQs is nice if you're in an area where you were able to plan ahead and don't need absolutely up-to-the-minute data. Running with the live site within the TOU is workable, but klunky, esp. if you're in an area with spotty data coverage. An app with access to the API to return "live" data (that obeyed the TOU, didn't smack the host senseless, etc.) would be sweet, but so far the only such apps we've seen have been from Groundspeak and Trimble. Requests to get to that API have been declined, so there are a lot of eyes upon Groundspeak to produce such apps.

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What would be the advantage of having an 'official' Groundspeak geocaching ap for Android beyond GeoBeagle? I run GB on a G1 and i really like it. Is it a matter of more/better features?

Live searches will be a huge benefit with out the use of pocket queries. A lot of these features have already been addressed in other threads/forums; it would be nice if there were a "Geocaching for Android" like the iPhone, to bring all this information together. (Original and on topic enough?)

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Live searches will be a huge benefit with out the use of pocket queries. A lot of these features have already been addressed in other threads/forums; it would be nice if there were a "Geocaching for Android" like the iPhone, to bring all this information together. (Original and on topic enough?)

 

An Android Forum Group would be much appreciated. One thing I'd like to see in an official app is the ability to pick up and drop TB when you log your find. I think it would cut down on missing ones to be able to log them right from the field instead of having to remember to pick them up/drop them on the computer when you get home.

 

BTW...I'm basing this on using [ mod edit: unauthorized app ] on my Droid. I don't know if other programs like the Beagle allow you to do Trackables.

Edited by robertlipe
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Live searches will be a huge benefit with out the use of pocket queries. A lot of these features have already been addressed in other threads/forums; it would be nice if there were a "Geocaching for Android" like the iPhone, to bring all this information together. (Original and on topic enough?)

 

An Android Forum Group would be much appreciated. One thing I'd like to see in an official app is the ability to pick up and drop TB when you log your find. I think it would cut down on missing ones to be able to log them right from the field instead of having to remember to pick them up/drop them on the computer when you get home.

 

BTW...I'm basing this on using [ mod edit: unauthorized app ] on my Droid. I don't know if other programs like the Beagle allow you to do Trackables.

 

Oh! I CAN do trackables with this app. Just had to play with it a little longer.

Edited by robertlipe
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Moderator note Groundspeak has asked that their resources (these forums) not be used to promote programs that violate the TOU that they - and you - agreed to when you started using the site. While this moderator, at least, isn't crazy about the busy-work and the general outcries of censorship, can we please reduce that busywork and not talk about programs that Groundspeak feels violates those rules?

 

Thank you,

Winston Smith.

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[Cut very useful stuff to get to my point]

For example, without a PQ, my read of the TOU is that it's OK for an app to generate a URL based on your current location and take you to the official web page that you as a human can read that shows you the nearest unfound caches, but it couldn't collect the coords for the nearest 20 caches to you to plop them into a map or automate the loading of those cache pages. (We could split hairs that a human driving a modern web browser is also "automated means", but let's not.)

Why not upgrade the TOU to take the vague words like "automate" out of the TOU and put in more precise language? The courts throw out laws all the time because because they are too vague. I know why the TOU was written because GS blocked my IP when I was using a perl script(before PQs were invented) to load caches on to my Palm Pilot. The PQs turned out to be infinitely better than my script. I was doing several HTTP transactions in a short time so GS cut me off. I suspected they were mainly aiming at web sites that had their own cache maps that they gathered from gc.com. If an Android app does only one HTTP transaction to do a search, I don't see how GS can detect what the app does with the HTML data after the transaction and I have no idea why GS would care because the TOU is too vague and written way before cellphone apps.
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