"Why I understand your sentement"

[+OregonCacher]

Hey guys,

 

I by no means want to stir the pot, but I have an issue I wanted some feedback from. Regardless of ones political ideology, I would like to think that all Americans support the fact that our troops ARE fighting for our country, regardless of whether you support the reason and causes behind it. I agree that we should keep politics out of this hobby, as all that will do is create negative relationships amongst ourselves.

 

However, I posted a cache in honor of my cousin, who felt the duty to enlist in the Marines and follow in our grandfather's footsteps and fight for our country. I know many of you may not agree on the war itself, I understand, but when I try to create a cache in his honor, and end with the description: "Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.", walk negative sentement could their be?

 

I was shocked when I received an email from a cache reviewer about this, as I didn't know that we had become at such a place in our country, that I can't even honor my family member or the other millions alike who do and have served in our armed forces.

 

If this subject has already been brought up I apologize, I had no clue what to search to find it.

 

I dont want to start a heated battle on hear by no means, but I guess I dont understand the harm or the negative response to such from geocaching.org. If someone disagree's with the war so much that they don't honor our veterans who have served regardless of the cause, then don't seek the cache I suppose?

 

It reminds me of what happened when our soldiers came back from Vietnam....

 

Regards,

 

K Kelm

[+DragonsWest]

Odd. It would be interesting to see the full description for your cache.

 

I've visited a few caches in honor of troops, passed along trackables in memoriam and in one instance a cache at a relative's grave - he served in Iraq, too. None of these seem to have caused a stir.

Edited December 15, 2009 by DragonsWest

[+Dive-n-diva]

My thanks go out to your cousin as well as all the other men and women who defend our freedom.

 

I have a grandson in Iraq who is coming home, then shipping out to Afghanistan.

 

God bless him. (Can I say that??)

Merry Christmas (Can I say that??)

 

Dont care Im saying it anyway.

[+bittsen]

It supports a cause and Groundspeak does not support caches supporting causes. They do this to be fair. If they were to allow caches honoring troops they would have to allow caches to honor individuals, other causes, political causes, and the list goes on until someone would want a cache to support the "skinhead faction of the KKK in favor of abortions of individuals earning below the median level of income in honor of Satan".

 

It's best to just not allow any causes than to head down that bumpy road.

[+Team Idasam]

This is truly pathetic.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

The reason has little to do with your dedication or the thoughts/wises associated with the cache itself.

 

Your attempted cache violates the "agenda" rule.

 

Nobody is saying that your cache is in bad taste or anything of the like. It is simply that it has an agenda associated with it.

If this agenda were to be allowed, then why not another? That is the point.

 

It is far better to disallow cache placements that promote an agenda (of any kind) than to have ruling committees work endless hours on what to allow or not allow; or decide who does or who does not get offended by such.

 

I am not a reviewer, but I do understand why such a rule exists and agree with it for the sake of neutrality, if for no other reason.

 

With changes in wording, or presentation, your cache can yet be approved. Just so you know.

[+Harry Dolphin]

However, I posted a cache in honor of my cousin, who felt the duty to enlist in the Marines and follow in our grandfather's footsteps and fight for our country. I know many of you may not agree on the war itself, I understand, but when I try to create a cache in his honor, and end with the description: "Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.", walk negative sentement could their be?

 

There are several threads concerning caches with an agendum. Geocaching has decided to keep neutral on just about every idea. If you put out a cache proclaiming "Liberty must be preserved! Do everything you can to preserve Liberty", your cache would probably not be published. As much as we all love Liberty, that would be promulgating an agendum. No cache that promulgates anything is permitted. Your problem is probably with the wording. Your ending statement could be (and probaby was) interpreted as an agendum. If you tone it down, you could probably get this cache published. Try something like: "This cache is placed in honor of my cousin, who, following family tradition, enlisted in the Marines, and is serving overseas. Good luck, Mike. We love you."

[+OregonCacher]

Trust me, I understand their "intent" of why to not allow this kind of cache.

 

However, the only bad "agenda's" are ones in which could cause a discrepency on. This "agenda" is completely neutral, and by geocaching.org allowing it, does not mean they agree or disagree. I agree, if this cache promoted a political candidate or some other political issue then that might be toeing the line, however, this cache is not pushing any political agenda, its simply thanking my countrymen for their service.

 

We live in a world now where everyone is hyper-sensitive about everything, but this is a bit over the top; even for Groundspeak. The ability to have "reviewers" go over each cache is a benefit to them, but also means that they can decide which cache's to approve and deny (obviously), however, that also means that the reviewers should be trusted to decide whether the "agenda" that may or may not be present in a cache is one in which could cause upset. Like I said, if you dont agree with the "theme" of a cache, then why just not seek it?

 

Here is the cache page: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...fe-f0f672a7a439

 

The sentence at issue is the last sentence under "long description".

 

I think Groundspeak is way off on this one. I agree that they should do their best to keep "political" agenda's out of the hobby, but when I can't even honor my cousin for doing something for the continuation of our own country, what message is that sending?

[+DragonsWest]

Here is the cache page: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...fe-f0f672a7a439

 

As it is unpublished only you may see it.

[+Team Cotati]

Trust me, I understand their "intent" of why to not allow this kind of cache.

 

However, the only bad "agenda's" are ones in which could cause a discrepency on. This "agenda" is completely neutral, and by geocaching.org allowing it, does not mean they agree or disagree. I agree, if this cache promoted a political candidate or some other political issue then that might be toeing the line, however, this cache is not pushing any political agenda, its simply thanking my countrymen for their service.

 

We live in a world now where everyone is hyper-sensitive about everything, but this is a bit over the top; even for Groundspeak. The ability to have "reviewers" go over each cache is a benefit to them, but also means that they can decide which cache's to approve and deny (obviously), however, that also means that the reviewers should be trusted to decide whether the "agenda" that may or may not be present in a cache is one in which could cause upset. Like I said, if you dont agree with the "theme" of a cache, then why just not seek it?

 

Here is the cache page: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...fe-f0f672a7a439

 

The sentence at issue is the last sentence under "long description".

 

I think Groundspeak is way off on this one. I agree that they should do their best to keep "political" agenda's out of the hobby, but when I can't even honor my cousin for doing something for the continuation of our own country, what message is that sending?

 

That doesn't show. Can you just post it in here?

[+OregonCacher]

Yes sorry I was unaware you all couldn't view it as unpublished:

 

Title: Semper Fi - PFC Johnson

 

Short Desc: A nice nature cache put in place to salute my cousin for his sacrifice to our country!

 

Long Desc: Thought i'd put this up in honor of my cousin P. Johnson, who is now a PFC in the United States Marine Corp. He is going in as a weather forecaster and is currently stationed at Keesler AFB in Buloxi, Mississippi.

 

He's now gone away for active duty, but we used to geocache all of the time, thus I thought this would be a good way to thank and honor him.

 

Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.

Edited December 15, 2009 by OregonCacher

[+Team Cotati]

Yes sorry I was unaware you all couldn't view it as unpublished:

 

Title: Semper Fi - PFC Johnson

 

Short Desc: A nice nature cache put in place to salute my cousin for his sacrifice to our country!

 

Long Desc: Thought i'd put this up in honor of my cousin P. Johnson, who is now a PFC in the United States Marine Corp. He is going in as a weather forecaster and is currently stationed at Keesler AFB in Buloxi, Mississippi.

 

He's now gone away for active duty, but we used to geocache all of the time, thus I thought this would be a good way to thank and honor him.

 

Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.

 

And what was it that the reviewer said in his email to you?

[knowschad]

Bittsen nailed it. Groundspeak has a blanket policy regarding "agenda" caches in order to keep the entire activity from becoming one big, tangled mess of agendas. It only seems unfair because this is an agenda that you (we) believe in. You are not being singled out, by any means. Do a forum search on "agenda" and you will quickly see that. Sorry... you obviously mean well.

[+popokiiti]

However, I posted a cache in honor of my cousin, who felt the duty to enlist in the Marines and follow in our grandfather's footsteps and fight for our country. I know many of you may not agree on the war itself, I understand, but when I try to create a cache in his honor, and end with the description: "Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.", walk negative sentement could their be?

 

There are several threads concerning caches with an agendum. Geocaching has decided to keep neutral on just about every idea. If you put out a cache proclaiming "Liberty must be preserved! Do everything you can to preserve Liberty", your cache would probably not be published. As much as we all love Liberty, that would be promulgating an agendum. No cache that promulgates anything is permitted. Your problem is probably with the wording. Your ending statement could be (and probaby was) interpreted as an agendum. If you tone it down, you could probably get this cache published. Try something like: "This cache is placed in honor of my cousin, who, following family tradition, enlisted in the Marines, and is serving overseas. Good luck, Mike. We love you."

I like that suggestion. I was surprised to see, as I was perusing this thread, the "Ads by Google" at the top of the page. "Military Records Online" and "Army Military Records." What a coincidence!

I'd like to wish your cousin a safe deployment and to all troops from around the world, the same.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Trust me, I understand their "intent" of why to not allow this kind of cache.

 

However, the only bad "agenda's" are ones in which could cause a discrepency on. This "agenda" is completely neutral, and by geocaching.org allowing it, does not mean they agree or disagree. I agree, if this cache promoted a political candidate or some other political issue then that might be toeing the line, however, this cache is not pushing any political agenda, its simply thanking my countrymen for their service.

 

We live in a world now where everyone is hyper-sensitive about everything, but this is a bit over the top; even for Groundspeak.

 

And that is your mistake. You go not understand their intent. Your agendum may be completely neutral, but it is still an agendum. No agenda at all! "Help me support him" is an agendum. Hypersensitivity has nothing to do with it. You may feel strongly about it, but it is an agendum. Leave off that line, and ask your reviewer if that would be acceptable.

[+Team Taran]

One problem is that the sentence is in the imperative you are telling people what to do. I think you could say "I honor his service" I think you could even talk about the traditions of the Marine U.S. Marine Corps or provide more information about his service. You cannot use your cache page to call for action whether that action be to support the troops or donate blood or support a JIhad against the United States. I don't think you can even use it to promote an anti micro campaign. Minor revision will get the cache published and leave the dedication in tack.

Team Taran

edited because sometimes I spell with my ears and not my mind.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Team Taran

[+niraD]

IANAR (I am not a reviewer), but this

Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.

is an agenda.

 

But ultimately, our opinions don't matter. Work with your local reviewer. It is possible to create caches that salute someone/something without crossing the "agenda" line.

[+Team Cotati]

One problem is that the sentence is in the imperative you are telling people what to do. I think you could say "I honor his service" I think you could even talk about the traditions of the Marine core or provide more information about his service. You cannot use your cache page to call for action whether that action be to support the troops or donate blood or support a JIhad against the United States. I don't think you can even use it to promote an anti micro campaign. Minor revision will get the cache published and leave the dedication in tack.

Team Taran

 

Marine core? That'll work.

[+Minimike2]

Yep, them soldiers in the Marine core deserve the best.

[+OregonCacher]

IANAR (I am not a reviewer), but this

Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.

is an agenda.

 

But ultimately, our opinions don't matter. Work with your local reviewer. It is possible to create caches that salute someone/something without crossing the "agenda" line.

 

I understand and that will probably be the only way that I can get this approved. To not be argumentative and confontational, I took out the sentence from my cache. The response I received from the reviewer was the following: "But the sentence, "Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces." isn't ok. While I appreciate the sentiment, geocaching.com does not allow caches to be used as a "tribute" or to "honor" any group or organization, be it the military, the Girl Scouts, or Mothers Against Drunk Driving. As noted in the guidelines, "caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.""

 

Why is this even being called an "agenda"? Fine, don't help me support the troops, and don't go find/seek my cache... easy enough?

 

I understand where they are coming from like I said, but this issue isn't one in which there is really another side that greatly opposes the content of this sentence. We live in a world today where it is so easy to "upset" someone or say one of the millions of things that could trigger someone and make them "unhappy", but where is the opposing view to "support our troops"? Even if there is an "agenda" in someones cache, if it is one in which the "majority" doesn't have a problem with, then why deny it to please the "minority"?

[+Jeep4two]

Did you ask your reviewer if removing the last line would allow the approval of your cache? That line is the only one that seems to be supporting any kind of agenda to me.

 

I would think a cache in honor or - or maybe in celebration of your cousins new turn in life might be allowable because to me it doesn't support a cause of any type, but rather is honoring or celebrating an individual. That to me would be no different than honoring someone that passed away, graduated from high school, got married. . . yadda yadda.

[knowschad]

Marine core? That'll work.

Those are usually done with an off-shore deep drilling platform,aren't they?

[+OregonCacher]

IANAR (I am not a reviewer), but this

Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.

is an agenda.

 

But ultimately, our opinions don't matter. Work with your local reviewer. It is possible to create caches that salute someone/something without crossing the "agenda" line.

 

I understand and that will probably be the only way that I can get this approved. To not be argumentative and confontational, I took out the sentence from my cache. The response I received from the reviewer was the following: "But the sentence, "Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces." isn't ok. While I appreciate the sentiment, geocaching.com does not allow caches to be used as a "tribute" or to "honor" any group or organization, be it the military, the Girl Scouts, or Mothers Against Drunk Driving. As noted in the guidelines, "caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.""

 

Why is this even being called an "agenda"? Fine, don't help me support the troops, and don't go find/seek my cache... easy enough?

 

I understand where they are coming from like I said, but this issue isn't one in which there is really another side that greatly opposes the content of this sentence. We live in a world today where it is so easy to "upset" someone or say one of the millions of things that could trigger someone and make them "unhappy", but where is the opposing view to "support our troops"? Even if there is an "agenda" in someones cache, if it is one in which the "majority" doesn't have a problem with, then why deny it to please the "minority"?

 

Yes, he did say if I removed the last line I could get it approved in which it just did. Its the logic behind it that upsets me, however, we can end the discussion here because I know this wont end up anywhere. Thanks for all of your input everyone, I do appreciate it

[ao318]

Why is this even being called an "agenda"? Fine, don't help me support the troops, and don't go find/seek my cache... easy enough?

 

I understand where they are coming from like I said, but this issue isn't one in which there is really another side that greatly opposes the content of this sentence. We live in a world today where it is so easy to "upset" someone or say one of the millions of things that could trigger someone and make them "unhappy", but where is the opposing view to "support our troops"? Even if there is an "agenda" in someones cache, if it is one in which the "majority" doesn't have a problem with, then why deny it to please the "minority"?

 

By these comments, it appears that you do have an agenda. All "you" need to do is say that you are proud of your cousin and the work he is doing for our country. It is pretty simple to do. You just can't ask people to support things that even one person might object to. This is just a game for people to have simple fun. TPTB want to keep it that way, which I support.

 

Good luck on your attempt to get this cache published.

[+StarBrand]

Also keep in mind that this is truely an internation activity. Geocachers come from a wide variety of nations.

 

While I as an American see nothing at all wrong or agenda like in your sentence - it is easy to believe that another cacher in another part of the world may see it entirely differently.

[+The Jester]

<snip> but where is the opposing view to "support our troops"? Even if there is an "agenda" in someones cache, if it is one in which the "majority" doesn't have a problem with, then why deny it to please the "minority"?

 

You have to remember that this is not a USA only sport, there are plenty of people in the world who DO NOT support our troops. There are even people here that don't support our troops. Would you be OK if they placed a cache .15 miles from yours with a line like "Let's all support the wonderful freedom fighters who are killing US servicemen around the world! We must bring Satan to it's knees!"

 

And trying to find out if a majority (even of just cachers world wide) is in favor of an agenda is next to impossible. It's easier to say "No agenda's" then to select a few.

[Keystone]

Your agendum may be completely neutral, but it is still an agendum. No agenda at all! "Help me support him" is an agendum. Hypersensitivity has nothing to do with it. You may feel strongly about it, but it is an agendum. Leave off that line, and ask your reviewer if that would be acceptable.

That's correct. The reviewer only asked for the one final line to be removed. That's because it was an imperative sentence, telling others how they should think. The remaining text, focused on the individual, was fine.

 

Since the cache owner removed the sentence as requested, the cache is now published. Enjoy the logs!

[Clan Riffster]

As a veteran of the United States Army Military Police Corp, I fully and absolutely support our nations fighting men and women who put their lives on the line every day, so that I might sit in A/C pecking at a keyboard.

 

That being said:

 

Why is this even being called an "agenda"?

 

It's called an agenda because that it what it is. This is a global game, not one limited to North America. If you'll watch the news, you'll see there are gobs of folks out there, international and domestic, who have naught but hatred for our military. I can assure you that if Groundspeak allowed your agenda, it would only be a short time before someone posted a cache telling folks "Help me support my cousin Ahmed, as he defends our peace loving nation against The Great Satan, the United States military."

 

Then I'd have to post my "Nuke A Gay Whale For Jesus" cache.

 

Things would go down hill pretty fast at that point.

 

Let's keep this game about hunting for Tupperware.

[+Hildy Boys]

Let me start by saying that I agree with their decision on the whole “No agenda” policy.

 

That being said, this whole situation irritates me and brings to light one of the biggest problems in our society today. We have developed a society of hypersensitive babies that have to protected against anyone that might say something that will hurt their feelings. God forbid someone go to a public place and say Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, God Bless America, or “Thank you for serving our country”!! And now we have spent so much time protecting people against these things that people cannot think for themselves. Just look at some of the posts on here, people are associating the support of our troops to supporting terrorists and the KKK.

 

I think that if you live in the USA and enjoy its freedoms, and you don’t support the men and women that protect that freedom then you’re a hypocrite! And the idea that someone can’t publicly show their support of our troops in a cache place in the USA is just wrong!

 

But I think Groundspeaks hands are tied on this one because it is our society that is making the rules, not them. And unfortunately I think that by having a cache that supports a cause, your cache would become a target for people to tamper/destroy it. Trust me; nothing pains me more then to have to agree with this decision.

 

And please thank your cousin for serving our country!

 

Okay, I am off my soap box…………..for now.

[+wimseyguy]

Yes sorry I was unaware you all couldn't view it as unpublished:

 

Title: Semper Fi - PFC Johnson

 

Short Desc: A nice nature cache put in place to salute my cousin for his sacrifice to our country!

 

Long Desc: Thought i'd put this up in honor of my cousin P. Johnson, who is now a PFC in the United States Marine Corp. He is going in as a weather forecaster and is currently stationed at Keesler AFB in Buloxi, Mississippi.

 

He's now gone away for active duty, but we used to geocache all of the time, thus I thought this would be a good way to thank and honor him.

 

Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.

The last line should be a deal breaker with cache publication.

You crossed the line when you asked others to think a certain way, albeit it in a very good way. In my experience when you include a group of people in a cache with honor or memorial it crosses the line. When you ask others to think or feel a certain way it becomes an agenda. Simply bringing cachers to a veterans memorial is enough-you don't need to tell them to stop and reflect, pray for their souls, support the troops, etc.

 

This is truly pathetic.

Care to share a list of which agendas you would feel are acceptable and which are not?

This could interesting.

 

It supports a cause and Groundspeak does not support caches supporting causes. They do this to be fair. If they were to allow caches honoring troops they would have to allow caches to honor individuals, other causes, political causes, and the list goes on until someone would want a cache to support the "skinhead faction of the KKK in favor of abortions of individuals earning below the median level of income in honor of Satan".

 

It's best to just not allow any causes than to head down that bumpy road.

Who typed this and what have you done with the real bittsen?

 

My thanks go out to your cousin as well as all the other men and women who defend our freedom.

 

I have a grandson in Iraq who is coming home, then shipping out to Afghanistan.

 

God bless him. (Can I say that??)

Merry Christmas (Can I say that??)

 

Dont care Im saying it anyway.

 

Yes you can say that in here. The guidelines for listing a cache at geocaching.com and those for posting in this forum are a bit different.

[knowschad]

It supports a cause and Groundspeak does not support caches supporting causes. They do this to be fair. If they were to allow caches honoring troops they would have to allow caches to honor individuals, other causes, political causes, and the list goes on until someone would want a cache to support the "skinhead faction of the KKK in favor of abortions of individuals earning below the median level of income in honor of Satan".

It's best to just not allow any causes than to head down that bumpy road.

Who typed this and what have you done with the real bittsen?

Posts like that are why I keep coming here. Loved it!!

[+Harwell5]

Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.

 

My suggestion is to change this line to: "If you feel inclined to do so, thank him and the many others who have and are currently serving in our United States armed forces."

 

Just a thought.

 

PS. You could always remove it, submit it, get it published and then re-add it to the published cache page. JK! (I don't advise doing this though)

[+sbell111]

Let me start by saying that I agree with their decision on the whole “No agenda” policy.

 

That being said, this whole situation irritates me and brings to light one of the biggest problems in our society today. We have developed a society of hypersensitive babies that have to protected against anyone that might say something that will hurt their feelings. God forbid someone go to a public place and say Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, God Bless America, or “Thank you for serving our country”!! And now we have spent so much time protecting people against these things that people cannot think for themselves. Just look at some of the posts on here, people are associating the support of our troops to supporting terrorists and the KKK.

Wow. I think that your post was misplaced. For example, take a look at the bits that I bolded. Each one of those could have been on the cache page and it would have been quickly listed.

I think that if you live in the USA and enjoy its freedoms, and you don’t support the men and women that protect that freedom then you’re a hypocrite! And the idea that someone can’t publicly show their support of our troops in a cache place in the USA is just wrong!

First, no one told the OP that he couldn't support the troops. They merely stopped him from soliciting the support of others. Also, what if the cacher doesn't live in the US? Must he also support our military? Is he allowed to support his military (or version thereof)? What if his military are in active conflict with ours?

But I think Groundspeaks hands are tied on this one because it is our society that is making the rules, not them.

Actually, you are wrong there, also. This is Groundspeak's playground. It's their rules. It is a good rule, in my opinion, but I don't think that it was forced upon them.

And unfortunately I think that by having a cache that supports a cause, your cache would become a target for people to tamper/destroy it.

I believe that, for the most part, that wouldn't be true. After all, the OP's cache was listed with a very small change to the verbiage. The cache still is clearly in honor of his/her cousin. This isn't going to set it up for destruction.

 

BTW, there is no actual war on Xmas. That's just political blather.

Edited December 16, 2009 by sbell111

[+KBI]

Let's keep this game about hunting for Tupperware.

Yes. Please.

 

It doesn’t matter how strongly I support the military: I still like for there to be places I can go to enjoy a blissful escape from the issues of the day.

 

Whether I’m solving a crossword or playing with my kids or watching a movie or slogging up a wooded hillside trying to figure out what the heck the hint means when it says "the cache is on the right side of the tree" (?), ... I don’t want the problems of the word intruding on me. That’s my time.

 

I promise I’ll be just as much a patriot when I return to the world of the serious. But please, leave the agendas out of caching.

[+Rustynails]

Looks like it's published. What's the problem???

[+Kit Fox]

Hey guys,

 

I by no means want to stir the pot, but I have an issue I wanted some feedback from. Regardless of ones political ideology, I would like to think that all Americans support the fact that our troops ARE fighting for our country, regardless of whether you support the reason and causes behind it. I agree that we should keep politics out of this hobby, as all that will do is create negative relationships amongst ourselves.

 

However, I posted a cache in honor of my cousin, who felt the duty to enlist in the Marines and follow in our grandfather's footsteps and fight for our country. I know many of you may not agree on the war itself, I understand, but when I try to create a cache in his honor, and end with the description: "Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.", walk negative sentement could their be?

 

I was shocked when I received an email from a cache reviewer about this, as I didn't know that we had become at such a place in our country, that I can't even honor my family member or the other millions alike who do and have served in our armed forces.

 

If this subject has already been brought up I apologize, I had no clue what to search to find it.

 

I dont want to start a heated battle on hear by no means, but I guess I dont understand the harm or the negative response to such from geocaching.org. If someone disagree's with the war so much that they don't honor our veterans who have served regardless of the cause, then don't seek the cache I suppose?

 

It reminds me of what happened when our soldiers came back from Vietnam....

 

Regards,

 

K Kelm

 

This was the first debate when the rule was enforced.

 

unacceptable cache description, Your pulling my cache, im pulling my membership. 15 page debate

 

Request for Comment: Cache Agenda

[+Hildy Boys]

Wow. I think that your post was misplaced. For example, take a look at the bits that I bolded. Each one of those could have been on the cache page and it would have been quickly listed.

 

By saying Merry Christmas are you not telling that person that you would like them to enjoy the holiday that celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ? Is that not a call to action that is frowned upon? I know this is a gross exaggeration, but that is my point. We are so afraid to draw the preverbal line in the sand on what is and is not acceptable, that we just say none of it is acceptable.

 

Also, what if the cacher doesn't live in the US? Must he also support our military? Is he allowed to support his military (or version thereof)? What if his military are in active conflict with ours?

 

If he is in his own country, I hope he does support his country. And if he is traveling in another country he should respect the people of that country. I am not so arrogant to think that when I go to another country that they stop showing the support of their country in my presence. So if that same cacher decides to go to a major sporting event, are we offending him by having military planes fly over the stadium during the national anthem? And if I was in another country caching and found one that I do not agree with, I just move along to the next one.

 

Actually, you are wrong there, also. This is Groundspeak's playground. It's their rules. It is a good rule, in my opinion, but I don't think that it was forced upon them.

 

I think you took what I said to literally. I know that it is their choice, but in order to keep the majority of people happy they have decided to go with not allowing any of it. And I do think that it is the right decision on their part, I just find it unfortunate that they had to make that decision. I think we all could use a little more tolerance and common sense in our lives.

 

I believe that, for the most part, that wouldn't be true. After all, the OP's cache was listed with a very small change to the verbiage. The cache still is clearly in honor of his/her cousin. This isn't going to set it up for destruction.

 

I am not saying that it would ever happen, I am just saying that there is always that chance. Some people out there that are against this war and our troops can do some pretty radical things.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Yes sorry I was unaware you all couldn't view it as unpublished:

 

Title: Semper Fi - PFC Johnson

 

Short Desc: A nice nature cache put in place to salute my cousin for his sacrifice to our country!

 

Long Desc: Thought i'd put this up in honor of my cousin P. Johnson, who is now a PFC in the United States Marine Corp. He is going in as a weather forecaster and is currently stationed at Keesler AFB in Buloxi, Mississippi.

 

He's now gone away for active duty, but we used to geocache all of the time, thus I thought this would be a good way to thank and honor him.

 

Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.

 

I suspect it's that last sentence that is causing the issue. It's acceptable to honor someone, but when you start asking others to support him and millions of others (whether you consider that a god/bad/neutral agenda or not) that's where the line is drawn.

 

From all of the threads I have seen when the agenda issue comes up, it almost always seems to boil down to the language used in the description.

[+Renegade Knight]

..."Help me support him and the millions of others who have, and currently do serve in our United States armed forces.", ...

 

Drop the call for support. Instead place it in your cousins honor. State your own support but don't ask for others support etc.

 

A cache in honor of, in tribute to etc. is ok as long as it's not also a call to action which makes the agenda passive (we all have them when we place a cache) to active.

 

"Help me..." is your call to action that moves it to an active agenda.