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newbie with a gps question


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HI All, I am totally new to this (actually would like to get my 8 year old son and husband into it also) and am looking for a good GPS to get going. I would lilke something for caching, but also that my son (a scout) will be able to use when he and hubby go hiking and camping (a few times a year). I have found what I think are 2 good deals, but I'm not sure which is best for me. I found the Delorme PN-40 with the TOPO 8 for $199 at Amazon; I like the idea of the paperless caching, but I'm not sure if it's "too much" GPS for a beginner. I also found a etrex Venture CX with a "northeast topo bundle" for $169. It seems like more people use Garmin, rather than Delorme, so I was wondering if that is the better deal. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

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Hello. You are definitely correct that the great majority of geocachers use Garmin brand GPSr's. However, there is a growing number of us that are very happy with our Delorme PNs and think they are wonderful. Most folks just kind of give advice on the line of something like 2 sentences long telling you they love their GPS and that you should buy it too. However to make a truely informed decision you will need to know not just the pros of owning a particular model GPSr, but also the cons of owning it because every GPSr does have both pros and cons of owning them.

 

Personally I can't imagine not spending the extra $30 and getting a much better GPSr for geocaching, but that is my personal opinion and others may not agree. Paperless caching is AWESOME! For the $30 difference in price I believe it's a HUGE upgrade to go to the PN-40 and then you won't have to worry about wanting to upgrade in a few months and shelling out a few hundred more later. Not to mention the $199 sale price now is a price that makes it an especially good time to buy a PN-40.

 

If you'd like to see what I consider to be both the pros and cons of owning a PN-40 you can CLICK HERE . Probably the best way to get a well balanced view of the pros and cons of any GPSr would be to go to Amazon.com and read the reviews on both the units you are considering.

 

Good luck in your search for a good GPSr for your family's needs. Welcome to the game! :)

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Lots of threads on here already comparing the PN-40 with all things Garmin.

 

Personally, I like paperless a lot. I own both a Garmin Colorado and a PN-40. It's pretty hard to beat the PN-40 price for a paperless unit, especially when you consider the fact that topo and routable road maps are included. DeLorme is going out of its way to provide features for geocachers. On the other hand, DeLorme is a relative newcomer and Garmin is the "standard".

 

I don't think you'll find a significant difference in ease (or difficulty :) ) of use between the PN-40 and the Etrex. They're pretty similar from a user interface standpoint. The higher-priced Garmins (Colorado, Oregon, Dakota) do have a different interface which is more like an automotive unit.

 

I am a little confused by the reference to the Venture CX. I assume this is really the HC. The "H" part is important because in Garmin-speak, the "H" indicates a high-sensitivity receiver. That is an important feature and is only lacking in older (or very cheap) models. My only point here is that I would not purchase any unit without a high-sensitivity receiver.

 

If your only choices are the Venture HC and the PN-40, I'd go with the PN-40. Paperless and included topo/road maps for the entire US at a $200 price point is hard to argue with.

 

Edited to add: The Venture Cx is a discontinued unit, which explains why I didn't find it on the list of available models on the Garmin web site. It does not have a high-sensitivity receiver.

Edited by twolpert
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Another unit you might consider for paperless is the Lowrance Endura out&back. Although it really got off to a rocky start, recent firmware updates have really made the unit a lot better. It has some of the best paperless Geocachign features available on any unit. Holds 3000 caches and has a nice interface. About $170.

 

The Delorme units come with some very nice free mapping, easy to learn features (in the unit) and a nice price point. However, they eat batteries, have a difficult to open cover, use a propritary cable, have tendancy to lose signal in some difficult condtions and can only hold 1000 caches. Lots to like but some drawbacks as well.

 

The other unit you might like is the Garmin Oregon 200. For about $230 - it has a very easy to use touchscreen interface and lots of free maps available at gpsfiledepot.com

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The Delorme units come with some very nice free mapping, easy to learn features (in the unit) and a nice price point. However, they eat batteries, have a difficult to open cover, use a propritary cable, have tendancy to lose signal in some difficult condtions and can only hold 1000 caches. Lots to like but some drawbacks as well.

 

 

Not trying to be argumentative but can anyone enlighten me as to the relevance of this? How many caches can you hit in a day? Or is there more to it that I'm failing to see?

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The Delorme units come with some very nice free mapping, easy to learn features (in the unit) and a nice price point. However, they eat batteries, have a difficult to open cover, use a propritary cable, have tendancy to lose signal in some difficult condtions and can only hold 1000 caches. Lots to like but some drawbacks as well.

 

 

Not trying to be argumentative but can anyone enlighten me as to the relevance of this? How many caches can you hit in a day? Or is there more to it that I'm failing to see?

 

It's nice to be able to drop in all the geocaches for an area so they are available to be seen. That way you can head out and "freestyle Geocache", going from one to another one as the day progresses. That's the beauty of generating pocket queries and having all that data available where ever you are, to an extent.

 

In my neighborhood there are +500 caches within a 16 mile radius of my home!

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The Delorme units come with some very nice free mapping, easy to learn features (in the unit) and a nice price point. However, they eat batteries, have a difficult to open cover, use a propritary cable, have tendancy to lose signal in some difficult condtions and can only hold 1000 caches. Lots to like but some drawbacks as well.

 

 

Not trying to be argumentative but can anyone enlighten me as to the relevance of this? How many caches can you hit in a day? Or is there more to it that I'm failing to see?

Nice when you are on a weeklong camping vacation with 3000 miles of road ahead of you to have a few more caches loaded. Actually - for just about anytime you travel.

 

On a day to day basis - probably no big deal.

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Don't forget that to take advantage of paperless caching, you need to spend the extra $30 / year for premium membership. I'm not sure if DeLorme has any promotion where they give you a taste of it for free, but Garmin does.

 

I'd go on about how it is worth it and all that, but I don't want to sound like a drug pusher :)

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The Delorme units come with some very nice free mapping, easy to learn features (in the unit) and a nice price point. However, they eat batteries, have a difficult to open cover, use a propritary cable, have tendancy to lose signal in some difficult condtions and can only hold 1000 caches. Lots to like but some drawbacks as well.

 

 

Not trying to be argumentative but can anyone enlighten me as to the relevance of this? How many caches can you hit in a day? Or is there more to it that I'm failing to see?

Well, kind of old stuff anyway. Last month's admonition, if you will.

Many of us are now using the new 2.7 firmware that allows saving waypoints, both geocache and non-geocache to the SD card.

As such, thousands may now be carried.

 

OTOH, I do question the caution regarding the 1,000 cache limitation (former) with as applicable to totally new cachers.

I expect a few weeks of activity before they would have felt constrained by the no longer applicable cache limitation.

 

Other note: If one really needs not to be constrained by a proprietary cable, do not consider the aquistion of an iPhone or iPod, 10-4?

Edited by Team CowboyPapa
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"1000 caches" is a bit of an awkward limit, and even a new user will probably find that out pretty early.. The problem is, pocket queries can hold up to 500 Geocaches each and that seems like a lot. But for example to get good radius coverage of my neighborhood I do TWO pocket queries, one is "all single caches" near my home (500), the other is for all "multi/other" geocaches near my home (500). That totals to 1000 caches,,

 

If I load just them into the GPSr then no problem. however if I have just ONE "personal waypoint" also saved in memory then I will hit the dreaded "Max limit" wall if trying to load those two PQ's as well :)

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"1000 caches" is a bit of an awkward limit, and even a new user will probably find that out pretty early.. The problem is, pocket queries can hold up to 500 Geocaches each and that seems like a lot. But for example to get good radius coverage of my neighborhood I do TWO pocket queries, one is "all single caches" near my home (500), the other is for all "multi/other" geocaches near my home (500). That totals to 1000 caches,,

 

If I load just them into the GPSr then no problem. however if I have just ONE "personal waypoint" also saved in memory then I will hit the dreaded "Max limit" wall if trying to load those two PQ's as well :)

NM, I expect that we were composing concurrently.

So, please allow me to restate that the 1,000 limit is no longer a PN-40 constraint.

Similarly, I run TWO large PQs and TWO smaller ones on a periodic basis.

With the newest firmware, I store these on the SD card as 4 separate GPX files.

Additionally, I carry several other GPX files with non-geocache waypoints.

Edited by Team CowboyPapa
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"1000 caches" is a bit of an awkward limit, and even a new user will probably find that out pretty early.. The problem is, pocket queries can hold up to 500 Geocaches each and that seems like a lot. But for example to get good radius coverage of my neighborhood I do TWO pocket queries, one is "all single caches" near my home (500), the other is for all "multi/other" geocaches near my home (500). That totals to 1000 caches,,

 

If I load just them into the GPSr then no problem. however if I have just ONE "personal waypoint" also saved in memory then I will hit the dreaded "Max limit" wall if trying to load those two PQ's as well :)

NM, I expect that we were composing concurrently.

So, please allow me to restate that the 1,000 limit is no longer a PN-40 constraint.

Similarly, I run TWO large PQs and TWO smaller ones on a periodic basis.

With the newest firmware, I store these on the SD card as 4 separate GPX files.

Additionally, I carry several other GPX files with non-geocache waypoints.

It is still a contraint for using the cache register app.

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It is still a contraint for using the cache register app.

Great question, StarBrand, I'll be happy to answer that.

Bear with me, I need to be careful.

 

Regarding total number of caches, more than 1,000 can be stored on the SD card after exchange from Cache Register.

However, while possible, I prefer not Cache Register and I have discontinued my use of it subsequent to installing the new firmware, 2.7:

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?f=178&t=21288

I find it, my personal opinion, more tractable to Import the GPX files from my PQs to Topo USA 8.0 and then Export them as GPX files to the SD card.

While in between the Import and Export steps of Topo 8, I find it convenient to rename the files and I also combine the associated waypoint file with its geocache file so that all waypoints are now one one file, again, just my preference.

I also have Exported collections of non-geocaches to my SD card, both as separate files or combined with PQ produced geocache files.

 

OK, now for more related to your question concerning Cache Register.

Cache Register transfers directly from here, Groundspeak, to the internal storage of the PN-XX.

So, in order to make this work, I think (remember that I don't do this - but others do), one should use the PN's menu to Delete all caches/waypoints from the internal storage.

Then use CR to Synch/send the caches from one PQ to the internal.

Then use them PN menu again to Save, with a Rename I think, to the SD card.

Then repeat the delete, send and save steps for each PQ.

 

Yes, I acknowledge that I am doing a lot more keystroking, touch labor with the new firmware.

However, it is my trade off between more manual monkey motion (MMMM :) ) to obtain greater flexibility.

 

Now, the truly good news is that DeLorme is working now on the next, better than sliced bread firmware, 2.8.

Chip Noble, of DeLorme notes that this firmware, 2.7, was developed for an application other than using Topo USA 8.0 to export PQ results to a PN-XX.

However, the firmware, 2.8, is being designed primarily to support geocachers.

As such, it is my expectation that it will be more tractable in accomplishing that which I have outlined above and, perhaps, provide some additional functionality:

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=21505

 

Note that the thread in the latter link shows how PN-XX users are really getting into using the new firmware.

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However, they eat batteries, have a difficult to open cover, use a propritary cable, have tendancy to lose signal in some difficult condtions and can only hold 1000 caches.

 

I get 12-14 hours on a set of batteries, cover is opened by with 2 screws (not to difficult to use), I have been in some heavy tree cover (hardwood forest of Missouri) and don't lose signal and I think cowboy answered the question about 1000 caches. Right now I have close to 4000 on my unit (split into several geographical areas or based on if they have trackable items, or how difficult the cache is). (I use GSAK to load and update the unit)

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It is still a contraint for using the cache register app.

Great question, StarBrand, I'll be happy to answer that.

Bear with me, I need to be careful.

 

Regarding total number of caches, more than 1,000 can be stored on the SD card after exchange from Cache Register.

However, while possible, I prefer not Cache Register and I have discontinued my use of it subsequent to installing the new firmware, 2.7:

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?f=178&t=21288

I find it, my personal opinion, more tractable to Import the GPX files from my PQs to Topo USA 8.0 and then Export them as GPX files to the SD card.

While in between the Import and Export steps of Topo 8, I find it convenient to rename the files and I also combine the associated waypoint file with its geocache file so that all waypoints are now one one file, again, just my preference.

I also have Exported collections of non-geocaches to my SD card, both as separate files or combined with PQ produced geocache files.

 

OK, now for more related to your question concerning Cache Register.

Cache Register transfers directly from here, Groundspeak, to the internal storage of the PN-XX.

So, in order to make this work, I think (remember that I don't do this - but others do), one should use the PN's menu to Delete all caches/waypoints from the internal storage.

Then use CR to Synch/send the caches from one PQ to the internal.

Then use them PN menu again to Save, with a Rename I think, to the SD card.

Then repeat the delete, send and save steps for each PQ.

 

Yes, I acknowledge that I am doing a lot more keystroking, touch labor with the new firmware.

However, it is my trade off between more manual monkey motion (MMMM :) ) to obtain greater flexibility.

 

Now, the truly good news is that DeLorme is working now on the next, better than sliced bread firmware, 2.8.

Chip Noble, of DeLorme notes that this firmware, 2.7, was developed for an application other than using Topo USA 8.0 to export PQ results to a PN-XX.

However, the firmware, 2.8, is being designed primarily to support geocachers.

As such, it is my expectation that it will be more tractable in accomplishing that which I have outlined above and, perhaps, provide some additional functionality:

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=21505

 

Note that the thread in the latter link shows how PN-XX users are really getting into using the new firmware.

Wow - that was a lot of words to agree that cache register doesn't (yet) support more than 1000 caches.

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However, they eat batteries, have a difficult to open cover, use a propritary cable, have tendancy to lose signal in some difficult condtions and can only hold 1000 caches.

 

I get 12-14 hours on a set of batteries, cover is opened by with 2 screws (not to difficult to use), I have been in some heavy tree cover (hardwood forest of Missouri) and don't lose signal and I think cowboy answered the question about 1000 caches. Right now I have close to 4000 on my unit (split into several geographical areas or based on if they have trackable items, or how difficult the cache is). (I use GSAK to load and update the unit)

Not to quibble but I can open and close my Oregon 200 at least 4 times in the time it takes to open up the PN30 cover.

 

The PN30 loses signal easily in urban hi-res environments and under thick tree canopy/rough terrain. I've tested mine alongside several other units.

 

Using rather standard 2100 NIMh rechargeable batteries with frequent caching, routing and backlight use yields no more than 7 or 8 hours of use. Sometimes less. Many cachers I know with pn30's and 40's all agree.

 

Don't get me wrong - there is a lot to like about the Delorme product - especially at that price point. However - it still just isn't my first choice.

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Wow - that was a lot of words to agree that cache register doesn't (yet) support more than 1000 caches.

I'm sorry, StarBrand, I let you down.

That is why I prefaced with wanting to be careful.

It DOES support more than a 1000 caches and waypoints.

However, it may be in the interpretation of that which I wrote.

 

So, let me add this and then look at the former:

Cache Register will process a batch of 1000 caches, maximum.

However, after Saving that batch to the SD card, one can then use it to export another batch of a 1000.

 

So, yes, if the eyes of one beholder discredit the multiple batch procedure, 1000 is a limitation.

 

However, if one uses CR sequentially for 6 batches of 900 and counts the caches on the SD card, then..........

 

EDIT: I forgot that PQs are limited to 500 caches per.

Therefore, to get more than 1000 caches on the SD card via Cache Register with the new 2.7 firmware,

one must use CR more that twice to get more that two PQs transferred.

 

But, yes, more than 1,000 may be transferred with Cache Register.

Edited by Team CowboyPapa
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Wow - that was a lot of words to agree that cache register doesn't (yet) support more than 1000 caches.

Yes, it was.

 

And the purpose in the length was to provide a "how to" for those in doubt that the former limitation of 1,000 is no longer applicable when using Cache Register.

Perhaps, some of those with a PN-40 may choose to take advantage of the methodolgy as I described it and verify it for themselves (hopefully, they can count past 1,000).

 

Of course, an totally explicit answer of this nature could put me in jeopardy of being characterized as a gushing, DeLorme fanboy, as here:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=4155701

But, I took that chance. :)

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... If one really needs not to be constrained by a proprietary cable, do not consider the aquistion of an iPhone or iPod, 10-4?
What a strange and illogical thing to say when you're presumably touting the DeLorme PN-40 -- and nobody else in this thread had mentioned an iPod or iPhone in any context.

 

As far as I have been able to find, the only place to buy a PN-series cable is directly from DeLorme, for $13. By contrast, I can buy an iPhone/iPod cable at the local drugstore (and myriad online sources) for less than $5. I venture to guess these are actually easier and cheaper to find than common mini USB cables -- which are also far more widely available and inexpensive compared to DeLorme's cable.

 

IF anyone is bothered by "expensive and limited availability" cables, (note the more precise criteria than simply "proprietary") then DeLorme and Magellan are brands to avoid. Not sure about Lowrance's latest models. In contrast, any current Garmin using a mini USB cable would be a far better choice on that score.

 

Whether or not that's an important detail to the OP (or anyone else) is entirely up to them.

Edited by lee_rimar
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The Delorme units come with some very nice free mapping, easy to learn features (in the unit) and a nice price point. However, they eat batteries, have a difficult to open cover, use a propritary cable, have tendancy to lose signal in some difficult condtions and can only hold 1000 caches. Lots to like but some drawbacks as well.

 

 

Not trying to be argumentative but can anyone enlighten me as to the relevance of this? How many caches can you hit in a day? Or is there more to it that I'm failing to see?

Nice when you are on a weeklong camping vacation with 3000 miles of road ahead of you to have a few more caches loaded. Actually - for just about anytime you travel.

 

On a day to day basis - probably no big deal.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I've not yet received my PN-40 so the info I'm getting is useful. From what I'm reading it seems like there is a work around solution for the 1,000 cache limitation. This is good to hear as is DeLorme's apparent interest in keeping their users happy with continuing firmware updates addressing such issues.

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... If one really needs not to be constrained by a proprietary cable, do not consider the aquistion of an iPhone or iPod, 10-4?
What a strange and illogical thing to say when you're presumably touting the DeLorme PN-40 -- and nobody else in this thread had mentioned an iPod or iPhone in any context.

 

Actually, Lee, check post #4 above in this very thread:

The Delorme units come with some very nice free mapping, easy to learn features (in the unit) and a nice price point. However, they eat batteries, have a difficult to open cover, use a propritary cable, have tendancy to lose signal in some difficult condtions and can only hold 1000 caches. Lots to like but some drawbacks as well.

We do have trouble reading that which we don't want to acknowledge, do we not?

Or, is the typo, propritary?

 

I prefer to assign the oversight to the typo. :)

Edited by Team CowboyPapa
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Thanks for clearing that up. I've not yet received my PN-40 so the info I'm getting is useful. From what I'm reading it seems like there is a work around solution for the 1,000 cache limitation. This is good to hear as is DeLorme's apparent interest in keeping their users happy with continuing firmware updates addressing such issues.

Yes, please allow me to reaffirm that as there was not a conclusive acknowledgement in the post immediately following my first response to that question.

Currently, there are three methods of entering a total of more than 1,000 caches, and non-cache waypoints, onto the SD card and accessible by a PN-XX:

1. Using the Cache Register widget,

2. Using Topo USA 8.0, and

3. Using GSAK as noted by snow rules above.

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Thanks for clearing that up. I've not yet received my PN-40 so the info I'm getting is useful. From what I'm reading it seems like there is a work around solution for the 1,000 cache limitation. This is good to hear as is DeLorme's apparent interest in keeping their users happy with continuing firmware updates addressing such issues.

Yes, please allow me to reaffirm that as there was not a conclusive acknowledgement in the post immediately following my first response to that question.

Currently, there are three methods of entering a total of more than 1,000 caches, and non-cache waypoints, onto the SD card and accessible by a PN-XX:

1. Using the Cache Register widget,

2. Using Topo USA 8.0, and

3. Using GSAK as noted by snow rules above.

Don't forget upgrading to the newest firmware and learning to swap the files in an out of the unit.

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Thanks for clearing that up. I've not yet received my PN-40 so the info I'm getting is useful. From what I'm reading it seems like there is a work around solution for the 1,000 cache limitation. This is good to hear as is DeLorme's apparent interest in keeping their users happy with continuing firmware updates addressing such issues.

Yes, please allow me to reaffirm that as there was not a conclusive acknowledgement in the post immediately following my first response to that question.

Currently, there are three methods of entering a total of more than 1,000 caches, and non-cache waypoints, onto the SD card and accessible by a PN-XX:

1. Using the Cache Register widget,

2. Using Topo USA 8.0, and

3. Using GSAK as noted by snow rules above.

Don't forget upgrading to the newest firmware and learning to swap the files in an out of the unit.

 

Awesome. So this reaffirms that the solution to the "limitation" is within easy reach. Thanks for the info guys. I hope to receive my PN in the next few days and enjoy my Christmas break with some GC activity. :)

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Thanks for clearing that up. I've not yet received my PN-40 so the info I'm getting is useful. From what I'm reading it seems like there is a work around solution for the 1,000 cache limitation. This is good to hear as is DeLorme's apparent interest in keeping their users happy with continuing firmware updates addressing such issues.

Yes, please allow me to reaffirm that as there was not a conclusive acknowledgement in the post immediately following my first response to that question.

Currently, there are three methods of entering a total of more than 1,000 caches, and non-cache waypoints, onto the SD card and accessible by a PN-XX:

1. Using the Cache Register widget,

2. Using Topo USA 8.0, and

3. Using GSAK as noted by snow rules above.

Don't forget upgrading to the newest firmware and learning to swap the files in an out of the unit.

That is a very good catch, SB.

I don't expect any of the PN-XXs on the shelf to have this new firmware, 2.7.

So, yes, this would have to be downloaded from that link that I providided above and installed.

Furthermore, I might speculate that that firmware version might never be factory installed on a PN-XX.

Its sole means of delivery might be in the box with the XMap 7 Pro application for which it was designed.

 

And good advice regarding the learning to swap files in and out, I might add.

I will note that a few slip ups in practice will not result in fatal harm.

If things do go awry, I would just delete all from the SD card with Windows Explorer and from the internal using the PN-XX Menu and then resume experimentation.

Edited by Team CowboyPapa
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...We do have trouble reading that which we don't want to acknowledge, do we not?
Nah, I just have trouble reading your convoluted, rambling sentences.

 

Starbrand's post #4 mentions the PN-series has a proprietary cable, and he presents this as a disadvantage. I first read your post #9 as saying that if you don't like proprietary cables, you shouldn't buy an iPod or iPhone (which really makes no sense in the context of this discussion). Now you have me going back to it and trying to untangle what might have been a double or higher multiple negative "... If one really needs not to be constrained by a proprietary cable, do not consider ..."

 

What IS your point?

Edited by lee_rimar
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By contrast, I can buy an iPhone/iPod cable at the local drugstore (and myriad online sources) for less than $5. I venture to guess these are actually easier and cheaper to find than common mini USB cables -- which are also far more widely available and inexpensive compared to DeLorme's cable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't always this available when the i-series first came out. The PN-20 wasn't that popular but the popularity of the PN-30 and PN-40 could change this limitation you noted.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't always this available when the i-series first came out. The PN-20 wasn't that popular but the popularity of the PN-30 and PN-40 could change this limitation you noted.

I'd be willing to wager that in the lifetime of the PN series, it won't come close to 1% the popularity of an iPod or iPhone. I don't think even the total number of Garmin 60csx sold will approach 1% of iPhones.

 

As for Cowboy Papa's posts... I've always found your posts regarding DeLorme units to be extremely informative. However, what comes across as your peevish attacks at any criticisms, justified or not, leaves a very bad taste with me.

 

StarBrand is entirely correct in pointing out that Cache Register does not support more than 1000 geocaches. The fact that you have to perform that work-around proves it. And as for the iPhone and proprietary cable, what does it have to do with the fact that the PN series uses one? It's irrelevant, unless I can use an iPhone cable on the PN-40.

Edited by Chrysalides
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't always this available when the i-series first came out... the popularity of the PN-30 and PN-40 could change this limitation you noted.
It's true the cables not being widely available until there were tens of millions of devices in use (true of both iPod and regular USB cables). The popularity of the devices created the market for them.

 

But you're pretty optimistic if you think that ANY handheld GPS is going to generate those economies of scale. No matter how popular the PN-series becomes, I doubt there would be enough sold to get their unique cable sourced by multiple third parties and sold cheaply on the gadget shelf at every commodity store.

 

And the state of affairs NOW (not iPods 8 years ago or DeLorme 8 years from now), is that you can get the PN-series from ONE vendor at a relatively high price.

 

DeLorme could completely defuse the "proprietary cable" concerns (at least on future models) by doing the same thing Garmin did: Ditch it in favor of USB.

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what does it have to do with the fact that the PN series uses one? It's irrelevant, unless I can use an iPhone cable on the PN-40.
Beyond irrelevant, TCP bringing it up only hurts the case for the PN-series advocates.

 

It would make more sense to point out that few people will ever need a spare cable -- but it IS available for those who want one.

Edited by lee_rimar
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't always this available when the i-series first came out... the popularity of the PN-30 and PN-40 could change this limitation you noted.
It's true the cables not being widely available until there were tens of millions of devices in use (true of both iPod and regular USB cables). The popularity of the devices created the market for them.

 

But you're pretty optimistic if you think that ANY handheld GPS is going to generate those economies of scale. No matter how popular the PN-series becomes, I doubt there would be enough sold to get their unique cable sourced by multiple third parties and sold cheaply on the gadget shelf at every commodity store.

 

And the state of affairs NOW (not iPods 8 years ago or DeLorme 8 years from now), is that you can get the PN-series from ONE vendor at a relatively high price.

 

DeLorme could completely defuse the "proprietary cable" concerns (at least on future models) by doing the same thing Garmin did: Ditch it in favor of USB.

Color me optimistic. Even you made a prognastication of DeLorme's ability to take the lead on the geocaching market by storm. If it does happen, this has the capability to produce the demand for a wider supply chain.

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.....

DeLorme could completely defuse the "proprietary cable" concerns (at least on future models) by doing the same thing Garmin did: Ditch it in favor of USB.

 

I was sort of hoping the good engineers up at delorme could just create an adapter.

 

I could permanently mount the adapter on the back of my PN and use any mini USB cable to make the connection.

 

(hint hint)

Edited by StarBrand
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Color me optimistic. Even you made a prognastication of DeLorme's ability to take the lead on the geocaching market by storm.
You are reading too much into my other (admittedly wild) prediction, and I can't subscribe to your particular optimism here for these reasons:

 

1) Geocaching is a tiny segment of the overall market for GPS devices.

2) Stand-alone GPS devices are a tiny segmnet of the portable electronics market.

3) Even with stand-out products, one vendor in a tiny-tiny market segment does not make big economies of scale for customized accessory items like cables or cases.

Edited by lee_rimar
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I was sort of hoping the good engineers up at delorme could just create an adapter.... I could permanently mount the adapter on the back of my PN and use any mini USB cable to make the connection.
Actually, they did for a little while but I don't think they make it any more.

 

At one time the "power kit" came with just a cable "head" that snapped int to PN-series. It had a mini USB connection that could be plugged into either a USB data cable or the power adapter.

 

But the power kit doesn't come with that piece any more.

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.....

DeLorme could completely defuse the "proprietary cable" concerns (at least on future models) by doing the same thing Garmin did: Ditch it in favor of USB.

 

I was sort of hoping the good engineers up at delorme could just create an adapter.

 

I could permanently mount the adapter on the back of my PN and use any mini USB cable to make the connection.

 

(hint hint)

Actually, this used to exist (sort of). The original "travel kit" included a two-piece cable consisting of a standard mini-USB cable (or maybe it's micro - I can never keep them straight) and an custom 8-pin adapter which slides into the mount on the back of the unit and offers a USB socket. Some people did leave the adapter attached to the back of the unit. But I'm not sure how it affected waterproof-ness because the USB socket has no cover.

 

AFAIK, this cable is no longer offered. It is certainly not part of the new "power kit". As I understand it, the new kit comes with a one-piece cable which has the proprietary adapter on one end and a cigarette lighter plug/voltage regulator on the other. Not sure if this "improvement" is due to lower manufacturing costs or the fact that a number of users reported problems with the USB cable coming unplugged from the adapater on the back of the unit.

 

It's really a shame. For a while, DeLorme was also shipping the two-piece cables as replacements for failed one-piece cables. The two-piece ones (without the cable loop and choke) seemed less prone to random data transmission failures...

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Actually, this used to exist (sort of). The original "travel kit" included a two-piece cable consisting of a standard mini-USB cable (or maybe it's micro - I can never keep them straight) and an custom 8-pin adapter which slides into the mount on the back of the unit and offers a USB socket. Some people did leave the adapter attached to the back of the unit. But I'm not sure how it affected waterproof-ness because the USB socket has no cover.

 

You're talking about this thing?

 

gps2.jpg

 

Leaving something like that protrusion attached to the GPSr all the time, seems kinda awkward to me..

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Color me optimistic. Even you made a prognastication of DeLorme's ability to take the lead on the geocaching market by storm.
You are reading too much into my other (admittedly wild) prediction, and I can't subscribe to your particular optimism here for these reasons:

 

1) Geocaching is a tiny segment of the overall market for GPS devices.

2) Stand-alone GPS devices are a tiny segmnet of the portable electronics market.

3) Even with stand-out products, one vendor in a tiny-tiny market segment does not make big economies of scale for customized accessory items like cables or cases.

Lee, that's called standing on the edge of the coin. :antenna:

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...standing on the edge of the coin...
Nah, I really don't think so. DeLorme is never going to see large enough unit sales on the PN-series to make their unique cable an inexpensive/easy-to-find commodity.

 

Look how many "legacy" Garmin handhelds are/were around with novel power/data connections before G. started using USB on most of them. Even when you COULD find cables for them at the outdoors shop, they were Garmin-packaged. There are/were a few third-party vendors, but still in small enough numbers that they were specialty items. Only a little cheaper and easy to find than the genuine article.

 

Having said that -- Walmart and Amazon DO sell the DeLorme-branded/packaged cigarette lighter power adapter. It's not cheap but folks who want it can buy it without going directly to DeLorme. If D. ever decides to sell the data cable anyplace other than their own online store, it'll be the same story -- at shops carrying the GPS, and with D.'s packaging and releatively higher pricing.

 

Frankly, this is not a worry to me but it is to some people and I think it's something DeLorme should address. Simply dismissing it (as Grandpa did the other day) doesn't fix it.

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DeLorme could completely defuse the "proprietary cable" concerns (at least on future models) by doing the same thing Garmin did: Ditch it in favor of USB.

 

In my view, they all get you with one thing or another. DeLorme with their cable but much more significantly in dollars is the software and Garmin sells separately. The difference in money between buying an extra cable or having to buy basic software to operate the device is a non-argument, IMHO.

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...In my view, they all get you with one thing or another. DeLorme with their cable but much more significantly in dollars is the software and Garmin sells separately. The difference in money between buying an extra cable or having to buy basic software to operate the device is a non-argument, IMHO.

 

Lots of free maps available for the Garmin units. Even one's with autorouting.

 

I did not own a gps with maps or even download any maps my first 4 year's of Geocaching. you do not "have" to buy anything.

Edited by StarBrand
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DeLorme with their cable but much more significantly in dollars is the software and Garmin sells separately.
I doubt the price would really bother any sensible person. To me it seems limited availability would be a bigger worry.

 

And even then, that's only a worry to some people. For all the talk here, I'm guessing most PN-series users never even think of getting a spare cable. The ones that want it just have to order it directly from DeLorme.

 

A minor irritation, but one DeLorme should address so the detractors have one less thing to complain about :antenna:

Edited by lee_rimar
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...In my view, they all get you with one thing or another. DeLorme with their cable but much more significantly in dollars is the software and Garmin sells separately. The difference in money between buying an extra cable or having to buy basic software to operate the device is a non-argument, IMHO.

 

Lots of free maps available for the Garmin units. Even one's with autorouting.

 

I did not own a gps with maps or even download any maps my first 4 year's of Geocaching. you do not "have" to buy anything.

 

I stand corrected. As a newcomer to the hobby I researched and saw that the two units I'd be choosing between were the 60Csx and the PN-40. One comes with complete maps and the other does not. I figured the maps would be a big deal and on top of that, the Garmin unit is (at the time I placed my order) some $85 more expensive.

 

This was what swung the pendulum for me. In the future I'll probably end up giving the Garmin unit a try but for now, the PN made more economic sense given what's included as well as practicality for me just starting off. Practicality of course in the sense that the unit has all the stuff in the box and with the Garmin I'd have to purchase and or procure the free maps separately.

 

BTW, how easy is it to get these free maps. Are they openly available freeware or is it one of those "underground" type of deals. Again, I don't know and am curious as I like the 60Csc as well.

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