What Sex?

[+KBI]

Is there some reason I should be treating female posters differently than male posters?

Yes.

 

A male poster should be referred to as a "he." A female poster is a "she."

 

Unless I am mistaken, that simple differentiation, along with the awkwardness that results when those pronouns are misapplied out of honest ignorance, constitutes the entire reason for this thread.

[+KBI]

I love this story. (And it’s almost on topic):

 

I have always done my best to teach my kids self-confidence. One day back when my daughter was a pre-teen I realized I had succeeded somewhat when I jokingly asked her:

 

Me: Do you know what the prefix "fe" in the word "female" means?

 

Her: No. What?

 

Me: It means "almost as good as"

 

Her: (loudly, and in mock annoyance) No it doesn’t, Daddy! It means "BETTER THAN!"

[knowschad]

I love this story. (And it's almost on topic):

I have always done my best to teach my kids self-confidence. One day back when my daughter was a pre-teen I realized I had succeeded somewhat when I jokingly asked her:

Me: Do you know what the prefix "fe" in the word "female" means?

Her: No. What?

Me: It means "almost as good as"

Her: (loudly, and in mock annoyance) No it doesn't, Daddy! It means "BETTER THAN!"

Nuts! I always thought it meant "Equal to", but what do I know?

 

Seriously... that's a cute story! Thanks for sharing!!

[+Sioneva]

... I have to admit that I tend to assume most posters to be male unless their account name or avatar is obviously feminine.

 

*whispers* For ages I thought Sionova was a male!

 

MrsB

 

He's not?!

 

Uh oh...another assumption bites the dust!

 

To TPTB...see what I mean??

 

*cough* *cough*

SionEva... and the 'a' ending should give it away! *glares at all and sundry*

 

[knowschad]

*cough* *cough*SionEva... and the 'a' ending should give it away! *glares at all and sundry*

Well, perhaps in Spanish. But your gallery gave it away for me. After how many years...? So, you're NOT really a sock puppet for Vinny after all, huh? This thread is rocking my reality!!!

[+Sioneva]

*cough* *cough*SionEva... and the 'a' ending should give it away! *glares at all and sundry*

Well, perhaps in Spanish. But your gallery gave it away for me. After how many years...? So, you're NOT really a sock puppet for Vinny after all, huh? This thread is rocking my reality!!!

 

Of course not. He's my sock puppet.

[+TrailGators]

I love this story. (And it's almost on topic):

 

I have always done my best to teach my kids self-confidence. One day back when my daughter was a pre-teen I realized I had succeeded somewhat when I jokingly asked her:

 

Me: Do you know what the prefix "fe" in the word "female" means?

 

Her: No. What?

 

Me: It means "almost as good as"

 

Her: (loudly, and in mock annoyance) No it doesn't, Daddy! It means "BETTER THAN!"

 

 

FE is iron so a female must be an IRON MAN!

[+flask]

 

 

SionEva... and the 'a' ending should give it away!

 

it did for me.

 

males using traditional feminine endings do so at their own peril.

 

now if i could just get people to stop assuming i'm about a beverage container...

[+tozainamboku]

Is there some reason I should be treating female posters differently than male posters?

Yes.

 

A male poster should be referred to as a "he." A female poster is a "she."

 

Unless I am mistaken, that simple differentiation, along with the awkwardness that results when those pronouns are misapplied out of honest ignorance, constitutes the entire reason for this thread.

Does anyone remember that person who insisted on using some invented gender neutral pronoun (I think it was "ze") in all of zis posts. I think ze finally gave up and stop posting altogether because people complained how difficult those post were to read.

Edited December 12, 2009 by tozainamboku

[+bittsen]

Is there some reason I should be treating female posters differently than male posters?

Yes.

 

A male poster should be referred to as a "he." A female poster is a "she."

 

Unless I am mistaken, that simple differentiation, along with the awkwardness that results when those pronouns are misapplied out of honest ignorance, constitutes the entire reason for this thread.

 

I often refer to posters as "they" rather than he or she and "them" instead of him or her.

 

One size fits all in a "they".

Edited December 12, 2009 by bittsen

[knowschad]

Is there some reason I should be treating female posters differently than male posters?

Yes.

A male poster should be referred to as a "he." A female poster is a "she."

Unless I am mistaken, that simple differentiation, along with the awkwardness that results when those pronouns are misapplied out of honest ignorance, constitutes the entire reason for this thread.

I often refer to posters as "they" rather than he or she and "them" instead of him or her.

One size fits all in a "they".

But then you are using plural pronouns for singular ones.I would think that, as a single person yourself, that you would be sensitive to that issue.

 

[+KBI]

I tend to think of married people as genderless ....

You should. Genderlessness is a common side effect of marriage.

 

As a married person I naturally assumed that was the topic when I first saw the title of this thread.

 

As in "Sex? What sex?"

[+The Blorenges]

I'm enjoying the banter in this good humoured thread.

 

... I have to admit that I tend to assume most posters to be male unless their account name or avatar is obviously feminine.

 

*whispers* For ages I thought Sionova was a male!

 

MrsB

 

He's not?!

 

Uh oh...another assumption bites the dust!

 

To TPTB...see what I mean??

 

*cough* *cough*

SionEva... and the 'a' ending should give it away! *glares at all and sundry*

 

 

Sioneva, you're right... the 'a' ending would normally suggest a female name. However, it was your avatar (which is often referred to as "Chad" in the U.K.) which suggested to me that you were male.

 

MrsB

[+ThePetersTrio]

Political Correctness Overload!

 

Your gender is (usually) not particularly important to me when I evaluate the content of your post(s).

 

Is there some reason I should be treating female posters differently than male posters?

 

I was waiting for this type of response.

 

It has nothing to do with political correctness.

 

It is nice that my gender (or anyone else's) isn't important TO YOU, but FYI it is important to me. I like to know the gender of people I'm talking to. I think it is respectful to address people with the correct personal pronoun. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

And I would never suggest that anyone should be treated any differently because of their gender.

 

Any other incorrect assumptions you'd like to make here?

[+aka Momster]

I post infrequently so it is of no importance, but to avert any awkward "Whoa, always thought you were..." posts in 2011, declaring now I am a geocacHER and not a geocacHE. Thought the "mom" part was a gender spoiler, but got HEed the other day in a thread anyway. Blame the avatar? Honestly, it didn't bother me at all and it was worth a smile and shrug, and I rather like smiles. Shrugs I don't have any strong feelings about.

[+bittsen]

Is there some reason I should be treating female posters differently than male posters?

Yes.

A male poster should be referred to as a "he." A female poster is a "she."

Unless I am mistaken, that simple differentiation, along with the awkwardness that results when those pronouns are misapplied out of honest ignorance, constitutes the entire reason for this thread.

I often refer to posters as "they" rather than he or she and "them" instead of him or her.

One size fits all in a "they".

But then you are using plural pronouns for singular ones.I would think that, as a single person yourself, that you would be sensitive to that issue.

 

 

I am sensitive to very few "issues". I have REAL things that I concern myself with. This perceived offense that many cling to is something that I find, rather, sweaty.

[+Sioneva]

I'm enjoying the banter in this good humoured thread.

 

... I have to admit that I tend to assume most posters to be male unless their account name or avatar is obviously feminine.

 

*whispers* For ages I thought Sionova was a male!

 

MrsB

 

He's not?!

 

Uh oh...another assumption bites the dust!

 

To TPTB...see what I mean??

 

*cough* *cough*

SionEva... and the 'a' ending should give it away! *glares at all and sundry*

 

 

Sioneva, you're right... the 'a' ending would normally suggest a female name. However, it was your avatar (which is often referred to as "Chad" in the U.K.) which suggested to me that you were male.

 

MrsB

 

I'm Chad now? But I don't know knowschad! Something is not right here!

[+Chrysalides]

SionEva... and the 'a' ending should give it away! *glares at all and sundry*

And all along I thought your name really ends with "il" instead of "a"...

[+ThePetersTrio]

I am sensitive to very few "issues". I have REAL things that I concern myself with. This perceived offense that many cling to is something that I find, rather, sweaty.

 

Speaking of REAL things, - it was great meeting you today and finally putting a face to a caching name. I definitely did a double-take when you introduced yourself and I'm so glad that you did. Talk about blowing assumptions way out of the water!

 

New Years Resolution: More Geocaching Events

[+Arrow42]

 

I Kid, I kid...

[knowschad]

Sioneva, you're right... the 'a' ending would normally suggest a female name. However, it was your avatar (which is often referred to as "Chad" in the U.K.) which suggested to me that you were male.

MrsB

With all due respect, Mrs B, I happen to know Chad, and that is not Chad. That is Kilroy.

 

 

I will wait for KnowsKilroy to speak up, if I'm mistaken.

[knowschad]

 

I Kid, I kid...

That is just too wrong. Way too wrong.

[+Sioneva]

SionEva... and the 'a' ending should give it away! *glares at all and sundry*

And all along I thought your name really ends with "il" instead of "a"...

 

Shhhh! Don't tell anyone!

[+journey4truth]

I would all be for an identification of gender AND marital status so I can easily determine who the single lady geocachers are here. Would save me a heck of a lot of trouble.

 

Not that I would flirt with all of the.... well actually yes I would. It gets lonely caching all by my lonesome at times. *sniffles*

[+bittsen]

I am sensitive to very few "issues". I have REAL things that I concern myself with. This perceived offense that many cling to is something that I find, rather, sweaty.

 

Speaking of REAL things, - it was great meeting you today and finally putting a face to a caching name. I definitely did a double-take when you introduced yourself and I'm so glad that you did. Talk about blowing assumptions way out of the water!

 

New Years Resolution: More Geocaching Events

 

It was definately a pleasure meeting you. I'm really glad that I could put a face to your name as well. And, thank you very much for the Christmas gift. It was so unexpected and a true delight.

 

Now, how bad of a shock was I? Was it all the tattoos or the piercings?

[+Pajaholic]

Sioneva, you're right... the 'a' ending would normally suggest a female name. However, it was your avatar (which is often referred to as "Chad" in the U.K.) which suggested to me that you were male.

MrsB

With all due respect, Mrs B, I happen to know Chad, and that is not Chad. That is Kilroy.

"Kilroy" was Chad's American cousin!

 

While it's alleged that "Kilroy" was a real person, a shipyard inspector who would scrawl "Kilroy was here" on anything he'd inspected to let other inspectors know he'd been there and done that, "Chad" was a mystical figure in the UK during WWII. Since UK had rationing during the war and supplies could get low, Chad would often appear as graffiti accompanied by the slogon "Wot no {whatever was in short supply}", e.g. "Wot no bacon!" Personally, as a "baby boomer", I have fond childhood memories of driving up the Bwlch (Mrs B will know where that is!) to be met with graffiti of Andy Capp and Flo welcoming us to the Valleys alongside Chad at the top of the pass. That said, I can't remember what Chad complained about at the time (although it's possible it was "Wot no jobs").

 

Going back to Sioneva's name: FWIW, I'd wrongly assumed that Sioneva was a couple since her name seemed formed from the joining of a male name (Sion - the masculine equivalent of Sian) and a female name (Eva). However, I'd have used gender-neutral constructions until I knew "for sure". Examples are to use the plural (they, them), use the person's name, use second person (you), and (as a last resort) use "he or she". Another strategy to avoid the gender-specific trap is to alternate between the two genders - but it can look awkward outside formal documentation.

 

That said, there is a perfectly good gender-neutral pronoun, but "it" seems somewhat dehumanising!

 

Geoff

[+The Blorenges]

 

...That said, there is a perfectly good gender-neutral pronoun, but "it" seems somewhat dehumanising!

 

Geoff

 

As Sioneva claims to be "a strangelet" maybe she is an "et" rather than an "it"?

 

As for the Kilroy v. Chad debate, I have to accept knowschad's word that the avatar is not a true and faithful representation of his acquaintance Chad.

 

But it is the other Chad, the British one

 

MrsB

[+usyoopers]

I am sensitive to very few "issues". I have REAL things that I concern myself with. This perceived offense that many cling to is something that I find, rather, sweaty.

 

Speaking of REAL things, - it was great meeting you today and finally putting a face to a caching name. I definitely did a double-take when you introduced yourself and I'm so glad that you did. Talk about blowing assumptions way out of the water!

 

New Years Resolution: More Geocaching Events

 

It was definately a pleasure meeting you. I'm really glad that I could put a face to your name as well. And, thank you very much for the Christmas gift. It was so unexpected and a true delight.

 

Now, how bad of a shock was I? Was it all the tattoos or the piercings?

 

Okey, dokey....I think we need a picture here

[+ThePetersTrio]

I am sensitive to very few "issues". I have REAL things that I concern myself with. This perceived offense that many cling to is something that I find, rather, sweaty.

 

Speaking of REAL things, - it was great meeting you today and finally putting a face to a caching name. I definitely did a double-take when you introduced yourself and I'm so glad that you did. Talk about blowing assumptions way out of the water!

 

New Years Resolution: More Geocaching Events

 

It was definately a pleasure meeting you. I'm really glad that I could put a face to your name as well. And, thank you very much for the Christmas gift. It was so unexpected and a true delight.

 

Now, how bad of a shock was I? Was it all the tattoos or the piercings?

 

Naw, I'm used to tats and piercings. I think it was your lovely flannel shirt that surprised me the most. I've never seen that color of pink before in flannel. Way cool.

[+bittsen]

It was definately a pleasure meeting you. I'm really glad that I could put a face to your name as well. And, thank you very much for the Christmas gift. It was so unexpected and a true delight.

 

Now, how bad of a shock was I? Was it all the tattoos or the piercings?

 

Naw, I'm used to tats and piercings. I think it was your lovely flannel shirt that surprised me the most. I've never seen that color of pink before in flannel. Way cool.

 

I can't help but wonder if anyone noticed that the flannel shirt matched the laces in my mud stompers.

 

Okey, dokey....I think we need a picture here

 

I tried to take pictures but all three cameras broke.

 

[knowschad]

It was definately a pleasure meeting you. I'm really glad that I could put a face to your name as well. And, thank you very much for the Christmas gift. It was so unexpected and a true delight.

 

Now, how bad of a shock was I? Was it all the tattoos or the piercings?

 

Naw, I'm used to tats and piercings. I think it was your lovely flannel shirt that surprised me the most. I've never seen that color of pink before in flannel. Way cool.

 

I can't help but wonder if anyone noticed that the flannel shirt matched the laces in my mud stompers.

 

Okey, dokey....I think we need a picture here

 

I tried to take pictures but all three cameras broke.

 

Wot, no mullet?

[+tozainamboku]

So Sioneva's new avatar is Chad/Kilroy with a bow in his/her hair. But it's a blue bow, so I'm not sure what it means.

[+Sioneva]

So Sioneva's new avatar is Chad/Kilroy with a bow in his/her hair. But it's a blue bow, so I'm not sure what it means.

 

Armageddeon!

[+KBI]

So Sioneva's new avatar is Chad/Kilroy with a bow in his/her hair. But it's a blue bow, so I'm not sure what it means.

Armageddeon!

As in "Armageddon to like my new bow!"

[+Renegade Knight]

 

But seriously, a couple of weeks ago I was referred to as a him, when I am definitely a her....

 

Carl enep was a dude in my world until I learned differently. My rule of thumb is all internet denizens are guys until proven otherwise. Even if you call yourself "SexyFemaleCacher" and have an avitar to match. There are too many mitsuko's out there.

 

A few with generic names or unisex names (Like last names for example) based on writing style I will start to wonder if they are women, but I never fully cross over to thinking of them as women until they admit it.

 

I think you were one of those who I was thinking was female but...now you have admitted it.

[+ThePetersTrio]

My rule of thumb is all internet denizens are guys until proven otherwise.

 

May I ask why you would assume so?

 

I think that is what prompted my post more than any other thing. Why should any of us carry assumptions about the others who post here at all? Why must I prove my gender through my posts? Why not just allow me to have my gender noted under my avatar and remove the guessing game and incorrect assumptions?

[+Renegade Knight]

...SionEva... and the 'a' ending should give it away! *glares at all and sundry*

...

Well hell, another guy bites the dust.

[+Renegade Knight]

My rule of thumb is all internet denizens are guys until proven otherwise.

 

May I ask why you would assume so?

 

I think that is what prompted my post more than any other thing. Why should any of us carry assumptions about the others who post here at all? Why must I prove my gender through my posts? Why not just allow me to have my gender noted under my avatar and remove the guessing game and incorrect assumptions?

 

See that rule 30 above? That's exactly why. They only said they were kidding. I have found far more guys using cutsy female type avitars than women using burley puppy dog tail avitars (though a lot do like using ther pets).

 

In real life (as in I can see you when I talk to you) I know what's what. On the net I only think I know, or know I don't know, and unless it's spelled out I'm never sure. Throw in two other things. Most net folks are guys (this is changing fast) and I'm not going to say or do anything stupid by assuming a person is a guy. Or perhaps more correctly the stupid things I say and do won't be because of missassumed gender.

 

That's the long way to say I find there are less complications resulting from assuming all internet people are guys unless proven otherwise than vice versa. For one thing the inclination to flirt is removed. That alone saves a lot of trouble.

 

Of course there are also exceptions. I was thinking that sbell was a bonnie lass for awhile.

 

As for proving your gender, that's another concept. In a world where nothing needs to be as it seems an since we have to get by somehow, we have to fill in gaps with working assumptions that keep us on an even keel. You can perhaps assume that they are "they's" or genderless, or a "faceless internet person" and accomplish the same thing. But then they aren't that either are they and it's still an assumption that helps us get along.

 

I certainly have no objection if you want your gender noted, but based on my other experience...I'm going to treat it as one piece of a larger puzzle. Today, I believe you. Had this been day 1 of your posting career, I put it under the "possiblity" file and keep on looking for other clues.

 

Let me complicate this even more. Many years ago I was playing Diablo 1 online. I was playing a Rogue and Roges all had female avitars. No choice involved. So I named my rogue a female name to match the avitar. Convention evolved to where you used the guy name even though it was a female characer to match the owner and not the avitar. However at that time things hadn't evolved, and guess what? People treated me differently. That was strange. I'll bet some guys like that kind of attention and so they slip in the misques and create rule 30 in the process.

 

Personally I'd love to know the sex of the person I'm dealing with. That's not always easy or possible.

[+Renegade Knight]

Well heck. Based on that last post, you might get the impression that the relationship betwen guys and gals can be complicated.

[+bittsen]

(snip)

 

Of course there are also exceptions. I was thinking that sbell was a bonnie lass for awhile.

 

WHOA! WAIT A SECOND!

 

Sbell is a dude?

 

[+bittsen]

On topic.

 

One option would be to add the word "male" or "female" to your signature line or avatar title.

Of course for me that won't work because I enjoy the title of Über Genius - v3.0

much more than I would enjoy the title of ambiguous gender unspecified individual. It doesn't have the same ring to it.

[+KBI]

Bittsen's a genius?

[+Sioneva]

So Sioneva's new avatar is Chad/Kilroy with a bow in his/her hair. But it's a blue bow, so I'm not sure what it means.

Armageddeon!

As in "Armageddon to like my new bow!"

 

Worship the bow, for it is blue and pretty.

[+bittsen]

Bittsen's a genius?

 

Yes, Bittsen is a confirmed genius. Bittsen is usually quite humble of it but Bittsen believes some people should know, in advance, of Bittsen's geniusness.

 

Wonders never cease, eh?

[+ThePetersTrio]

On topic.

 

One option would be to add the word "male" or "female" to your signature line or avatar title.

Of course for me that won't work because I enjoy the title of Über Genius - v3.0

much more than I would enjoy the title of ambiguous gender unspecified individual. It doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

Funny you mentioned that option...although I opted not to employ the "male" or "female" tag, choosing instead to be a tad bit more creative. I'm certainly no genius however.

 

To RK - Thanks for taking the time to answer my question so thoughtfully. I think I understand your position a bit better now.

 

FWIW, I have regularly participated on a progressive rock music board for numerous years now. As those who follow progressive rock can attest, a conservative estimate is that 90% of concert goers - seemingly coinciding with the message board I participate on - are males. I have found that most of these guys appreciate having the fairer sex around. That being said, I don't think anyone has expressed a concern that some guy there may be posing as a girl. And even if that has or were to happen, they'd probably just laugh it off.

 

In other words, their enjoyment of females who happen to like the same thing(s) in music that they do, FAR outweighs their fear of accidentially mistaking a virtual girl for a real guy. Sometimes you gotta accept certain risks in life. How would your (rhetorical your) life drastically change should you find out in the end of it all that I'm really a man posing as a woman?

Edited December 16, 2009 by ThePetersTrio

[+KBI]

Bittsen's a genius?

Yes, Bittsen is a confirmed genius. Bittsen is usually quite humble of it but Bittsen believes some people should know, in advance, of Bittsen's geniusness.

Then maybe that indication should be added to the proposal as well, right next to gender.

 

It's amazing how much you can't tell from someone's posts.

[knowschad]

I was thinking that sbell was a bonnie lass for awhile.

Well, hell... another chick bites the dust!

[+okie-wan]

Bittsen's a genius?

 

Yes, Bittsen is a confirmed genius. Bittsen is usually quite humble of it but Bittsen believes some people should know, in advance, of Bittsen's geniusness.

 

Wonders never cease, eh?

How's come yer don't come to the MENSA meetings anymore? We miss your rapier wit!

And your dues are in arrears.

[+bittsen]

Bittsen's a genius?

 

Yes, Bittsen is a confirmed genius. Bittsen is usually quite humble of it but Bittsen believes some people should know, in advance, of Bittsen's geniusness.

 

Wonders never cease, eh?

How's come yer don't come to the MENSA meetings anymore? We miss your rapier wit!

And your dues are in arrears.

 

You are incorrect, Sir.

 

Following in the footsteps of my Uncle, I have declined membership in MENSA, though I have passed their test for membership. So, I am not in arrears on dues.

My grandfather, however, was a member.

 

[+Renegade Knight]

...How would your (rhetorical your) life drastically change should you find out in the end of it all that I'm really a man posing as a woman?

 

About like it did when I found out carleenp was a gal. I liked him before, I liked her after. Regardless I'd I'd rather know who I'm working with. If carleenp was a gal paying a dude in the forums that's a different kind of person than carleenp being herself and me merely mistaking her for a dude. I err on the side of caution. Caution being from my own personal angle.

 

I have a lot more respect for people who present themselves as they are.