Write a story or you're being disrespectful?

[+briansnat]

1 out of 6 simply says TFTC, which interpreted literally means "Thanks For The Cache", an expression of appreciation from cacher to owner.

 

 

It could mean that, or it could be a rote entry. Did he like it? Did he have fun? Was it an easy find or did he have difficulty finding it? Was the container dry? Was his simple "TFTC" meant to convey displeasure because he felt it wasn't worth more than a four letter log? Hard to say for certain.

[+Inmountains]

QUOTE(Inmountains @ Dec 10 2009, 05:12 PM) *

Sbell, according to your post count, you like to be heard. My post count shows that I usually don't have too much to say. ...

QUOTE(Inmountains @ Dec 10 2009, 05:12 PM) *

... Personally, I think it deserves a little more of a find log than a cut and paste "TFTC." ... Personally, it is disrespectful to do a cut and paste, short log for a nice cache. ...

Please note the two stements above. Both are very interesting in that they make assumptions that are not based on any real evidence.

QUOTE(Inmountains @ Dec 10 2009, 10:09 PM) *

... Since you did not use a question mark or exclamation point, it can't be surprise, confusion or an inquiry. Therefore, it must be disbelief. But you did not capitalize it either, so I must assert that you are weak in English Grammar skills as well.

Going back to your earlier comparison between my post count and yours, perhaps I have a higher count because I (generally) choose to observe the forum guidelines.

QUOTE(Inmountains @ Dec 10 2009, 10:09 PM) *

It is called class, courtesy, honor and respect.

Pretty ironic statement considering the rest of your post.

QUOTE(terrkan78 @ Dec 10 2009, 10:00 PM) *

I don't see the swag inside the container as being integral to the hobby. (And I do mean the swag; I'm not talking about the log). Isn't the hobby about finding a hidden container using an electronic gadget and your wits? I'd venture a guess that the first finders way back when were not blown away by what was in the container but rather by this extraordinarily cool new technology that allowed them to find it. Just my guess, though - I wasn't there.

I wasn't there, either, but I am aware of what was in that first cache and did participate in the game during the formative period. I never saw the game as being 'about the swag'. It was always about finding a hidden container (or location) using only coordinates posted by a stranger on the internet. Swag was incidental for most players.

QUOTE(KBI @ Dec 10 2009, 10:59 PM) *

... As far as me finding other folks' caches: If anyone wants to delete my online find log from their cache purely because I didn’t meet their minimum literary requirement, that’s fine too. Doesn’t change the fact that I found the cache. If I want my find count number to be accurate I can always re-submit the log to one of my own caches where they can’t touch it, with full explanation.

Alternatively, you could just get TPTB to reinstate your log.

QUOTE(Clan Riffster @ Dec 11 2009, 07:16 AM) *

QUOTE(Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking @ Dec 9 2009, 09:23 PM) *

Sbell may have nailed it in part. The mass quantity of caches (which I appreciate having) I think detracts from online logging. We typically only do a few caches a day, maybe even 10 caches at a time. The experience stays with us, and it shows in our logs. Quite a few folks log their finds without even seeing the cache page. There seems to be less emphasis on the cache page and logs. Just a different mindset in caching as the sport/ hobby/game grows.

This sounds curiously like the "Tragedy of the Commons" theory I postulated earlier. cool.gif

The irony of 'tragedy of the commons' is that the commons have no clue what it means.

 

This post has been edited by sbell111: Today, 07:54 AM

 

Like I said Sbell, YOU LIKE TO BE HEARD! Over 17,711 posts. That was NOT a derogatory statement, just an observation of your post count! If you took it negative, that is your problem.

[+flask]

 

Like I said Sbell, YOU LIKE TO BE HEARD! Over 17,711 posts. That was NOT a derogatory statement, just an observation of your post count! If you took it negative, that is your problem.

 

if you're going to be rude, at least have the brass to own up to it.

 

if i tell you you're an idiot, can i say that if you take it negative, it's your problem? it's not a derogatory statement; i'm just making an observation. would it be better if i said it twice?

[+Inmountains]

Well, if you want to count my 170 IQ, my job as a Finance Director for a Mulit Million Dollar Non Profit, my Bachelor's Degree graduating Magna Cum Laude, etc.., an idiot, that is your right. But when I see a post count of over 17,000 in 8 and a half years, I make the assertation that that person likes to speak their mind, that they like to be heard.

 

I believe your post points to the fact that your shoes size is larger than your IQ. Now THAT is derogatory, but I call it as I see it.

 

Like I posted earlier, in the past 1-2 years, the caching community has become rude, arrogant and brought in a totally lower class of people. I rest my case. Done with these forums, no intelligent life here.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

1 out of 6 simply says TFTC, which interpreted literally means "Thanks For The Cache", an expression of appreciation from cacher to owner.

 

 

It could mean that, or it could be a rote entry. Did he like it? Did he have fun? Was it an easy find or did he have difficulty finding it? Was the container dry? Was his simple "TFTC" meant to convey displeasure because he felt it wasn't worth more than a four letter log? Hard to say for certain.

Not really. If you have a positive outlook and assume that unless there is a reason to believe that there is a problem then there is not a problem, why, then, TFTC means Thanks For The Cache!!

 

Life is full of assumptions and interpretations, I just naturally assume the best and interpret everyone else as doing so as well... if someone wants to hurt my feelings they are gonna have to work at it a whole lot harder than by thanking me for a cache!

 

Sign me

Pollyanna

Edited December 12, 2009 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+BlueDeuce]

Well, if you want to count my 170 IQ, my job as a Finance Director for a Mulit Million Dollar Non Profit, my Bachelor's Degree graduating Magna Cum Laude, etc.., an idiot, that is your right. But when I see a post count of over 17,000 in 8 and a half years, I make the assertation that that person likes to speak their mind, that they like to be heard.

 

I believe your post points to the fact that your shoes size is larger than your IQ. Now THAT is derogatory, but I call it as I see it.

 

Like I posted earlier, in the past 1-2 years, the caching community has become rude, arrogant and brought in a totally lower class of people. I rest my case. Done with these forums, no intelligent life here.

 

Have you ever considered using your powers for evil? I mean seriously, that's where the real money is at.

Edited December 12, 2009 by BlueDeuce

[Clan Riffster]

The caching community has become rude, arrogant and brought in a totally lower class of people.

Kettle?

[+spektrum2]

Well, if you want to count my 170 IQ, my job as a Finance Director for a Mulit Million Dollar Non Profit, my Bachelor's Degree graduating Magna Cum Laude, etc.., an idiot, that is your right. But when I see a post count of over 17,000 in 8 and a half years, I make the assertation that that person likes to speak their mind, that they like to be heard.

 

I believe your post points to the fact that your shoes size is larger than your IQ. Now THAT is derogatory, but I call it as I see it.

 

Like I posted earlier, in the past 1-2 years, the caching community has become rude, arrogant and brought in a totally lower class of people. I rest my case. Done with these forums, no intelligent life here.

 

Wow!...............maybe I was right...?

 

Post#372...

 

I can't help wondering as the technology got cheaper and therefore available to more people

that the trends your seeing are just a larger cross section of the population....in other words the good ole

days were numbered anyway because the mob would show up sooner or later as they could afford it...

just a thought....

 

anyway.....can't believe you said that........wow.....well.....Cum visit sometime if your back this way.

 

K.......I'll be over here picking my nose if you need me.

[4wheelin_fool]

Well, if you want to count my 170 IQ, my job as a Finance Director for a Mulit Million Dollar Non Profit, my Bachelor's Degree graduating Magna Cum Laude, etc.., an idiot, that is your right. But when I see a post count of over 17,000 in 8 and a half years, I make the assertation that that person likes to speak their mind, that they like to be heard.

 

I believe your post points to the fact that your shoes size is larger than your IQ. Now THAT is derogatory, but I call it as I see it.

 

Like I posted earlier, in the past 1-2 years, the caching community has become rude, arrogant and brought in a totally lower class of people. I rest my case. Done with these forums, no intelligent life here.

 

There is a vast difference between smart and wise.

 

Your posts also illustrate why some people don't leave lengthy logs, as there is a certain percentage of cachers that will read something completely other than what was intended to be communicated and get upset..

[+Harry Dolphin]

Friends???

 

Of course. We're just discussing the ramifications of short logs.

I will admit that I am putting more effort into saying something nice about caches that I enjoy. I did a gurd rail micro yesterday that had a beautiful view across the Delaware River with the snow. And I commented on the view, which I would have missed otherwise. I'm very sorry that I did not have my camera along.

On the other fin, however, I do not have anything nice to say about the view of the security camera behind Kmart. My log for that one was deleted.

I try to put out (for the most part) caches in pretty, or interesting places. If a cacher enjoyed where I brought him/her, this is nice to know. But if s/he was on a numbers run in the fog, I don't get bent out of shape. More's the pity s/he missed the view. Oh, well. No skin off my snout.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Let's stay on topic folks and not resort to attacks, insults and name-calling. Thanks.

[+KBI]

I don’t understand why some cache owners in this thread seem to automatically equate low word count with disrespect – as if word count were all that mattered.

 

A short log is not disrespectful just because it is short.

 

My policy on logging finds is not unique. It is an old idea: say something nice or don’t say anything at all. And by don’t say anything at all I mean write a couple of polite words, such as "Found it" or "Thanks for the hide," and leave it at that. (I don’t use acronyms, but neither do I oppose their use.)

 

That doesn’t mean I withhold negative observations regarding practical matters, of course. If I observe anything I think the owner and/or future seekers might need to know, such as the coords are way off, or the container was full of water due to a design fault, or a muggle challenged my right to be on private land, then I will describe it.

 

But when it comes to purely aesthetic matters regarding the design of the cache and the resulting entertainment value to be found therein, I either say something nice or I don’t say anything at all. There is nothing to be gained, in my opinion, by belittling the originality of a fellow cache owner or by ridiculing the aesthetic preferences of those who might actually enjoy his cache. When describing how any given cache entertained me I keep my comments in the range between zero and positive.

 

Not all cachers share my policy, of course. There are always a few folks out there who don’t mind diving into negative territory when they feel their minimum standard for entertainment has not been adequately satisfied. This amazes me. I couldn’t believe it the first time I saw it: Many years ago a local cacher logged a drive-up retaining wall micro by posting the words "Enough of these. When is someone going to hide something creative?" I was stunned. What makes certain people think they will get what they want by insulting the efforts of others? Reading his words gave me the urge to do things, yes, but putting out a cache that would make him happy was not one of them.

 

What is your point, KBI? My point is this:

 

When logging online, showing respect for a cache owner does not, in my opinion, require a long wordy log. Showing respect for a cache owner requires only (1) honesty, restrained by (2) aesthetic tolerance, resulting in (3) politeness.

 

If I wasn’t crazy about a cache I can always say so without insulting it, which will generally result in a very short log. A short log is not disrespectful just because it is short. A long log is disrespectful if it requires me to lie about my opinion. To be dishonest, in my opinion, is to show disrespect.

[+briansnat]

I don’t understand why some cache owners in this thread seem to automatically equate low word count with disrespect – as if word count were all that mattered.

 

A short log is not disrespectful just because it is short.

 

I really don't think you've read much of this thread. I can't recall one person here who said that short logs were disrespectful because they are short. I don't think many (if anybody) here have come out against short logs.

[+briansnat]

1 out of 6 simply says TFTC, which interpreted literally means "Thanks For The Cache", an expression of appreciation from cacher to owner.

 

 

It could mean that, or it could be a rote entry. Did he like it? Did he have fun? Was it an easy find or did he have difficulty finding it? Was the container dry? Was his simple "TFTC" meant to convey displeasure because he felt it wasn't worth more than a four letter log? Hard to say for certain.

Not really. If you have a positive outlook and assume that unless there is a reason to believe that there is a problem then there is not a problem, why, then, TFTC means Thanks For The Cache!!

 

Life is full of assumptions and interpretations, I just naturally assume the best and interpret everyone else as doing so as well... if someone wants to hurt my feelings they are gonna have to work at it a whole lot harder than by thanking me for a cache!

 

Sign me

Pollyanna

 

Pollyanna indeed. I tend to have a positive outlook myself, but I know for a fact that many geocachers use a simple "TFTC" or "Found it" or similar logs to express their displeasure. Some have stated so in this thread.

 

So when I see a "TFTC" or "Found it" on my caches, or like one logger last week who left blank logs on a few of my caches (I didn't even know you could do that), it leaves me wondering. Is he a man of few words, or did he not enjoy the cache?

Edited December 12, 2009 by briansnat

[+Team Cotati]

Lordy how I wish that there were an attribute for:

 

"When you find this cache, you can sign the logbook or not, you can log it online or not, if you decide to log it online you can type one character or as many as you like, you must of course follow site guidelines, if any, that apply to logging finds."

 

I know, I know, you don't really need such an attribute. It's just that so many people don't seem to understand that and could use the guidance.

[+KBI]

I don’t understand why some cache owners in this thread seem to automatically equate low word count with disrespect – as if word count were all that mattered.

 

A short log is not disrespectful just because it is short.

I really don't think you've read much of this thread. I can't recall one person here who said that short logs were disrespectful because they are short. I don't think many (if anybody) here have come out against short logs.

Your interpretation my differ, of course, but here are a few examples I found just on the first two pages – and there are ten pages of this stuff:

 

if i'm too busy and too important to write a decent log, i'm too busy and too important to find caches.

i have seen not only cachers that cut and past the same log into all the caches they found on a run, but more than one cacher who uses the exact same cut and paste log.

it's sloppy and lazy. while the cache owner has no right to expect anything from your log, it's still sloppy and lazy.

finding a lot of caches does not somehow make you special and important and thereby excused from basic courtesy.

write your logs. it isn't all that hard, and it's the proper thing to do.

In MY experience, it has never been considered polite to log only TFTC. ... To have TFTC as the complete log is really a slam to most cache hiders...

My personal opinion of folks who employ such tactics is they are users. They get to enjoy the efforts of others while giving nothing back. They get to have their smilie while the CO gets nothing.

Second, I was doing a power cache run, and upon logging all 111 of my days finds with *gasp* the same log, I was contacted by one owner who thought my action was disgraceful, and an insult to cache hiders everywhere.

The owner was correct. Your action was perhaps not disgraceful, but it was rude, and the owner had every right to be offended.

TFTC doesn't hack it, just as TFTD is [in]adequate for someone who cooked you a nice Thanksgiving dinner. Faint praise is an insult.

I just hate copy and pasted logs on dozens of caches or even worse a single acronym log, it just seems rude.

 

And the OP itself was written about a cache owner who felt the same – which was precisely the subject of Motorcycle Mama’s post number 68.

 

I stand by my opinion: "TFTC" is not disrespectful. Brevity does not equate to disrespect.

 

If TFTC is all you really have to say, but you make up a bunch of extra babble for your log because forum comments (like the ones above) compel you to pad out your log with insincere fluff, then in my opinion you have posted a misleading log. Which is far more disrespectful that the simple, polite honesty of "TFTC."

[+briansnat]

I don’t understand why some cache owners in this thread seem to automatically equate low word count with disrespect – as if word count were all that mattered.

 

A short log is not disrespectful just because it is short.

I really don't think you've read much of this thread. I can't recall one person here who said that short logs were disrespectful because they are short. I don't think many (if anybody) here have come out against short logs.

Your interpretation my differ, of course, but here are a few examples I found just on the first two pages – and there are ten pages of this stuff:

 

if i'm too busy and too important to write a decent log, i'm too busy and too important to find caches.

i have seen not only cachers that cut and past the same log into all the caches they found on a run, but more than one cacher who uses the exact same cut and paste log.

it's sloppy and lazy. while the cache owner has no right to expect anything from your log, it's still sloppy and lazy.

finding a lot of caches does not somehow make you special and important and thereby excused from basic courtesy.

write your logs. it isn't all that hard, and it's the proper thing to do.

In MY experience, it has never been considered polite to log only TFTC. ... To have TFTC as the complete log is really a slam to most cache hiders...

My personal opinion of folks who employ such tactics is they are users. They get to enjoy the efforts of others while giving nothing back. They get to have their smilie while the CO gets nothing.

Second, I was doing a power cache run, and upon logging all 111 of my days finds with *gasp* the same log, I was contacted by one owner who thought my action was disgraceful, and an insult to cache hiders everywhere.

The owner was correct. Your action was perhaps not disgraceful, but it was rude, and the owner had every right to be offended.

TFTC doesn't hack it, just as TFTD is [in]adequate for someone who cooked you a nice Thanksgiving dinner. Faint praise is an insult.

I just hate copy and pasted logs on dozens of caches or even worse a single acronym log, it just seems rude.

 

And the OP itself was written about a cache owner who felt the same – which was precisely the subject of Motorcycle Mama’s post number 68.

 

I stand by my opinion: "TFTC" is not disrespectful. Brevity does not equate to disrespect.

 

If TFTC is all you really have to say, but you make up a bunch of extra babble for your log because forum comments (like the ones above) compel you to pad out your log with insincere fluff, then in my opinion you have posted a misleading log. Which is far more disrespectful that the simple, polite honesty of "TFTC."

 

I think it is the cut and past aspect that people here have an issue with. The chief argument in this thread is against cut and paste logs. From what I gathered from most of the posts here, they feel short logs are perfectly fine as long as they are unique to the cache.

Edited December 12, 2009 by briansnat

[+KBI]

1 out of 6 simply says TFTC, which interpreted literally means "Thanks For The Cache", an expression of appreciation from cacher to owner.

It could mean that, or it could be a rote entry. Did he like it? Did he have fun? Was it an easy find or did he have difficulty finding it? Was the container dry? Was his simple "TFTC" meant to convey displeasure because he felt it wasn't worth more than a four letter log? Hard to say for certain.

Not really. If you have a positive outlook and assume that unless there is a reason to believe that there is a problem then there is not a problem, why, then, TFTC means Thanks For The Cache!!

 

Life is full of assumptions and interpretations, I just naturally assume the best and interpret everyone else as doing so as well... if someone wants to hurt my feelings they are gonna have to work at it a whole lot harder than by thanking me for a cache!

 

Sign me

Pollyanna

Pollyanna indeed. I tend to have a positive outlook myself, but I know for a fact that many geocachers use a simple "TFTC" or "Found it" or similar logs to express their displeasure. Some have stated so in this thread.

 

So when I see a "TFTC" or "Found it" on my caches, or like one logger last week who left blank logs on a few of my caches (I didn't even know you could do that), it leaves me wondering. Is he a man of few words, or did he not enjoy the cache?

It could be either. At that point you do not have enough information to determine which of the two it is.

 

You can anguish over that ambiguity, or you can choose one or the other as a default. So why not be positive? Why not assume the best unless and until you have further reason to feel snubbed?

 

I have never felt that a "TFTC" log, in the absence of other information, is an automatic reason to feel slighted.

[+KBI]

I think it is the cut and past aspect that people here have an issue with. The chief argument in this thread is against cut and past logs.

Then the chief argument of my post was against that chief argument.

 

As I explained in that post, I do not agree with the premise that cut and paste logs are disrespectful just because they are cut and paste logs.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

...or like one logger last week who left blank logs on a few of my caches (I didn't even know you could do that)...

I don't think you can, intentionally anyway.

 

A couple years ago I tried leaving a totally blank log on a cache that I thought was truly garbage. The system won't allow blank logs. Tried just a space, no go. It did let me log just a single period.

 

My guess is blank logs are coming from cell phones... I think I have heard that there is a glitch with that.

 

So, if I write TFTC I am thanking the owner for the cache... if I write a single period my message is that I was taught that if I don't have anything good to say, don't say it!

 

Fortunately that once was the only time I had absolutely no good words to say about a cache!

[CoyoteRed]

I can't help wondering as the technology got cheaper and therefore available to more people

that the trends your seeing are just a larger cross section of the population....in other words the good ole

days were numbered anyway because the mob would show up sooner or later as they could afford it...

just a thought....

You could very well be right. Not about the technology being cheaper as a yellow etrex could be had for around $100. I'm thinking it's just the sheer number of cachers coming into the hobby. I remember back when I found geocaching to be very enjoyable the TPTB were contemplating what to do with the four digit hex waypoint numbering scheme. That's equates less than 65K caches in the wild. Now, we're looking at the turn over of 1 million. Is caching better now or before?

[+flask]

I don’t understand why some cache owners in this thread seem to automatically equate low word count with disrespect – as if word count were all that mattered.

 

A short log is not disrespectful just because it is short.

I really don't think you've read much of this thread. I can't recall one person here who said that short logs were disrespectful because they are short. I don't think many (if anybody) here have come out against short logs.

Your interpretation my differ, of course, but here are a few examples I found just on the first two pages – and there are ten pages of this stuff:

 

if i'm too busy and too important to write a decent log, i'm too busy and too important to find caches.

i have seen not only cachers that cut and past the same log into all the caches they found on a run, but more than one cacher who uses the exact same cut and paste log.

it's sloppy and lazy. while the cache owner has no right to expect anything from your log, it's still sloppy and lazy.

finding a lot of caches does not somehow make you special and important and thereby excused from basic courtesy.

write your logs. it isn't all that hard, and it's the proper thing to do.

In MY experience, it has never been considered polite to log only TFTC. ... To have TFTC as the complete log is really a slam to most cache hiders...

My personal opinion of folks who employ such tactics is they are users. They get to enjoy the efforts of others while giving nothing back. They get to have their smilie while the CO gets nothing.

Second, I was doing a power cache run, and upon logging all 111 of my days finds with *gasp* the same log, I was contacted by one owner who thought my action was disgraceful, and an insult to cache hiders everywhere.

The owner was correct. Your action was perhaps not disgraceful, but it was rude, and the owner had every right to be offended.

TFTC doesn't hack it, just as TFTD is [in]adequate for someone who cooked you a nice Thanksgiving dinner. Faint praise is an insult.

I just hate copy and pasted logs on dozens of caches or even worse a single acronym log, it just seems rude.

 

And the OP itself was written about a cache owner who felt the same – which was precisely the subject of Motorcycle Mama’s post number 68.

 

I stand by my opinion: "TFTC" is not disrespectful. Brevity does not equate to disrespect.

 

If TFTC is all you really have to say, but you make up a bunch of extra babble for your log because forum comments (like the ones above) compel you to pad out your log with insincere fluff, then in my opinion you have posted a misleading log. Which is far more disrespectful that the simple, polite honesty of "TFTC."

 

well of course you quoted me, but you got me -surprise!- entirely wrong!

 

i said "decent" and nowhere in this huge thread have i equated "decent" with "long". i've gone out of my way to un-couple the two.

[+KBI]

well of course you quoted me, but you got me -surprise!- entirely wrong!

 

i said "decent" and nowhere in this huge thread have i equated "decent" with "long". i've gone out of my way to un-couple the two.

Then why did you also use the words I bolded when I quoted you? I'm getting a mixed message.

 

If I got you entirely wrong then I'm happy to hear you apparently agree with my points. Sorry if I misconstrued your meaning.

[+The Jester]

Being the season that it is, my viewpoint is thus:

 

If you cut and pasted an email response "TFTG - IWJWIW"* to all you friends and family who gave you gift this year, would you be disrespectful? Would you expect them to just as generous next year?

 

To make it topical - substitute cache for gift, log for email, cache owner for friends and family.

 

And does a cut and paste 'TFTC" really mean 'thanks' - you wrote that once, but just sent copies to everyone else. It's almost an echo of a thanks.

 

*if you can't figure it out "Thanks For The Gift - It Was Just What I Wanted"

On another forum, there was a thread where the OP was ranting that some family member sent them one of those custom picture Christmas cards that had the sender's name preprinted on it. Most responders were stated taht they would not care about the issue.

??? I'm not sure what a Christmas greeting card has to do with a thank you note.

 

Etiquette doesn't seem to be taught any more in our society.

[+KBI]

Etiquette doesn't seem to be taught any more in our society.

It seems to me that there are two components of etiquette as they apply to this subject: Thoughtfulness on the part of the cache logger, and a predisposition to assume the best on the part of the cache owner.

 

Etiquette works best when each party does his part to meet the other in the middle.

 

A "TFTC" log – which ostensibly means 'thank you' – need not be accepted grudgingly when there is no supplementary reason to assume it was written grudgingly. To believe otherwise is to make a groundless assumption.

 

The meaning of any given "TFTC" log, all by itself, can be ambiguous. Is it sincere, or is it an insult? Sometimes you just don’t know. So here’s how I handle it: I’d rather be wrong because I assumed the best when the worst was intended, rather than be wrong the other way around. By adopting that view as a cache owner I have thereby done my part in the etiquette equation.

[+BlueDeuce]

Etiquette doesn't seem to be taught any more in our society.

It seems to me that there are two components of etiquette as they apply to this subject: Thoughtfulness on the part of the cache logger, and a predisposition to assume the best on the part of the cache owner.

 

Etiquette works best when each party does his part to meet the other in the middle.

 

A "TFTC" log – which ostensibly means 'thank you' – need not be accepted grudgingly when there is no supplementary reason to assume it was written grudgingly. To believe otherwise is to make a groundless assumption.

 

The meaning of any given "TFTC" log, all by itself, can be ambiguous. Is it sincere, or is it an insult? Sometimes you just don’t know. So here’s how I handle it: I’d rather be wrong because I assumed the best when the worst was intended, rather than be wrong the other way around. By adopting that view as a cache owner I have thereby done my part in the etiquette equation.

 

ayep.

[+lavender5215]

I don't think any one should tell anyone else how to log! Sometimes the find really doesnt warrant more than a TFTC. What does the cache owner care anyway, im sure some people who find the cache have a good story to tell. no one should get all bent just becaused someone doesnt want to write a log story. whatever!

you have the right to log how you want!

[+Webfoot]

I will admit to having not read the entire thread... I generally get nice logs on my caches. Generally. But, if you want to find a cache with a spectacular cache in dense fog, that is your prerogative. If all you feel like saying is: TNLNSL, that is your prerogative. Actually, I do not understand why some people feel the need to blather on and on in a cache log! "Write a story or you're being disrespectful"??? That's an ALR, and no longer permitted!

I'm not noted for long-winded blather logs (especially since GC will time you out if you take too long!) If I like your cache, I will say so. If I don't like it, I will also tell you so. But don't expect a novella from me. You ain't getting it. Why would anyone expect one?!?

No it is not an ALR!!! Not even close. "Write a story or I'll delete your log"... that would be an ALR. Also, if you had read the entire post, you'd know that we are not really talking about "writing a story", but about taking a few extra seconds to write something that conveys the fact that you are more than a robot.

As I said, if you want to hunt my cache with the spectacular view, in the dense fog, and log SLTNLN, that's your prerogative. Nice logs are nice. But, I'm not disrespected by "Found it". I may wonder why you bothered, but I have no problems with numbers runs.

View on hazy day

View on great day

True. He did post the photo. I bring you here for the view. If you want to visit for a log on a hazy day, that's alright with me too.

And if someone logged a picture of the area where I hid a cache and placed a TFTC, I'd love it. 1000 words, plus a TFTC. The person liked it enough to post a picture, so it's good.

 

I'd love to find the cache pictured above. Looks like a very cool spot.

[+BCandMsKitty]

I don't think any one should tell anyone else how to log! Sometimes the find really doesn’t warrant more than a TFTC. What does the cache owner care anyway, im sure some people who find the cache have a good story to tell. no one should get all bent just because someone doesn’t want to write a log story. whatever!

you have the right to log how you want!

 

I think you might have missed the point that most have been trying to make here.

 

If all someone wants to do is write TFTC, then that's ok. At least it is a log. As a cache owner, it is just always better if someone takes the time to write a bit more if they want, not because they have to!

I always do as a form of thanks to the cache owner. After all, he/she didn't have to hide the cache there just for me.

I said it in an earlier post.

To me it is no different than one of the basic rules of geocaching, that if you take something from the geocache, leave something of equal or greater value. I feel if I have "taken" the enjoyment of hunting for and finding the cache, then the least I can do is "leave" an online log if for no other reason than the owner knows that someone has at least looked for their cache!

Even if it is only one sentence. I don’t think anyone has said you have to write a story!

 

All I am promoting is that if you have the time, and the wherewithal to write something on the log page, and if you want to give a little something back to the cache owner, it will be better than simply TFTC and miles better that cut and paste!

[+BCandMsKitty]

...or like one logger last week who left blank logs on a few of my caches (I didn't even know you could do that)...

I don't think you can, intentionally anyway.

 

I'm not at home, but I'm pretty sure my greasemonkey script on firefox allows for text colour in the log posting window. A white period = a blank log.

Don't know why anyone would bother, though.

[+lavender5215]

I don't think any one should tell anyone else how to log! Sometimes the find really doesn’t warrant more than a TFTC. What does the cache owner care anyway, im sure some people who find the cache have a good story to tell. no one should get all bent just because someone doesn’t want to write a log story. whatever!

you have the right to log how you want!

 

I think you might have missed the point that most have been trying to make here.

 

If all someone wants to do is write TFTC, then that's ok. At least it is a log. As a cache owner, it is just always better if someone takes the time to write a bit more if they want, not because they have to!

I always do as a form of thanks to the cache owner. After all, he/she didn't have to hide the cache there just for me.

I said it in an earlier post.

To me it is no different than one of the basic rules of geocaching, that if you take something from the geocache, leave something of equal or greater value. I feel if I have "taken" the enjoyment of hunting for and finding the cache, then the least I can do is "leave" an online log if for no other reason than the owner knows that someone has at least looked for their cache!

Even if it is only one sentence. I don’t think anyone has said you have to write a story!

 

All I am promoting is that if you have the time, and the wherewithal to write something on the log page, and if you want to give a little something back to the cache owner, it will be better than simply TFTC and miles better that cut and paste!

 

I think you misunderstood me a bit. I agree with what you are saying. I definitely leave a log if i enjoyed the cache and cache owners deserve a good log when warranted, but sometimes i really have not much to say and i log a TFTC. Im new to this game and I only have 18 finds under my belt and most of them I gave them a good log. I just placed my first cache myself and i certainly would like to get some nice logs but i know some will just be people on a "numbers run"

 

The thing about writing a story for a log is that the original poster said he was pestered for not leaving anything more than a TFTC, which is the loggers perogative.

 

My point was that im sure there are plenty of people who will log a good log for a cache and that the cache owner should not harass loggers for a simple TFTC.

[+lavender5215]

The original post said that the cache finder was disrespectful for leaving a TFTC, i dont think its disrespectful.

What would be disrespectful is leaving no log at all.

[+BCandMsKitty]

So then we agree!

You are absolutely right. No one should be harrassed for their logging.

And as I said in the very first response to the OP ... being called disrespectful for his logs was "disrespectful"!

[knowschad]

From what I gathered from most of the posts here, they feel short logs are perfectly fine as long as they are unique to the cache.

That certainly speaks for me. Thank you!

 

 

In the case of the TFTC on the cache that I posted above (the post with several logs for one cache) that TFTC was also a C&P and was found with the person that posted the other C&P log. I received the exact logs from them on about 6 caches in that same park that day. I happen to know that both of the cachers are huge proponents of the "give me a long hike in a great park and let me find an ammo can" school of caching. There were several caches on that half-dozen that fit that description. And I happen to know that both of those cachers are quite able to type. One does a foodie blog in his spare time... the one that posted TFTC actually has time to write paragraphs about restaraunts he visits.

 

 

If I may try to sum this thread up... some cache owners don't care... a TFTC is as good as a novel to them. Some cache owners do appreciate something more. Few, if any, prefer a copy/paste or TFTC log over something better, so, what does it hurt you to go that extra mile and post something short, but thoughtful instead of a rubber stamp?

[+KBI]

What would be disrespectful is leaving no log at all.

There are at least 954,000 caches for which I have left no log at all.

 

I hope you all can forgive me.

[knowschad]

Hey, flask... how's your neighbor's cat doing?

[+BCandMsKitty]

If I may try to sum this thread up... some cache owners don't care... a TFTC is as good as a novel to them. Some cache owners do appreciate something more. Few, if any, prefer a copy/paste or TFTC log over something better, so, what does it hurt you to go that extra mile and post something short, but thoughtful instead of a rubber stamp?

 

Works for me.

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

Is caching better now or before?

 

Caching is different than it was before. Whether its better or not is up to any cacher. We search for the ones we are interested in, and log as I see fit. (Mike doesnt want to spend time online logging so he leaves it to me.) We have a good time caching our way. We have just as much fun as we did years ago. We learned how to adapt.

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

Etiquette doesn't seem to be taught any more in our society.

 

Respect seems to be a thing of the past too.

 

(I am not singling anyone out with that comment either, just making a general observation about society.)

Edited December 13, 2009 by Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking

[+BlueDeuce]

Etiquette doesn't seem to be taught any more in our society.

 

Respect seems to be a thing of the past too.

 

 

Which past had this respect. Was it the 40's?

[+fizzymagic]

What would be disrespectful is leaving no log at all.

I disagree. Leaving no log online at all is better than leaving a cut-and-paste log. Cut-and-paste logs have no useful information in them and they displace real logs that do contain such information (such as the cache condition, corrected coordinates, oblique hints about the cache location, etc.) because PQs only contain the last 5 logs.

 

As a cache owner, I would much prefer no log at all to a cut-and-paste log. As a cache seeker, I feel the same way.

[+lavender5215]

What would be disrespectful is leaving no log at all.

I disagree. Leaving no log online at all is better than leaving a cut-and-paste log. Cut-and-paste logs have no useful information in them and they displace real logs that do contain such information (such as the cache condition, corrected coordinates, oblique hints about the cache location, etc.) because PQs only contain the last 5 logs.

 

As a cache owner, I would much prefer no log at all to a cut-and-paste log. As a cache seeker, I feel the same way.

You very much have a point, but what if someone just has nothing more to say than a simple TFTC. Its not a cut and paste and it was a legit find for which the finder should receive credit for.

 

IDK it all seems to be a matter of perspective.

 

well summing up the facts I guess basically we are all entitled to our own likes/dislikes but people should definitely not be harassed for the way they log.

[Clan Riffster]

That TFTC was also a C&P

Ya know, I just realized we've been leaving out an important step.

Since computers have been known to hiccup on occasion, the steps should be:

Copy, Review, And Paste, or CR&P.

It's merely a coincidence that CR&P looks so much like CRAP.

[+L0ne.R]

What would be disrespectful is leaving no log at all.

I disagree. Leaving no log online at all is better than leaving a cut-and-paste log. Cut-and-paste logs have no useful information in them and they displace real logs that do contain such information (such as the cache condition, corrected coordinates, oblique hints about the cache location, etc.) because PQs only contain the last 5 logs.

 

As a cache owner, I would much prefer no log at all to a cut-and-paste log. As a cache seeker, I feel the same way.

 

Very good point, fizzymagic. Interesting angle with regards to the last 5 logs.

 

I wonder if it would be better to have a "no log" checkmark for those who don't want to write a log. He/she gets a smilie but the empty log doesn't count towards the logs that appear in the PQs or printouts.

 

Of course, there will be some people who will mess it up by logging a cut-and-paste or TFTC log anyway.

[+briansnat]

All I am promoting is that if you have the time, and the wherewithal to write something on the log page, and if you want to give a little something back to the cache owner, it will be better than simply TFTC and miles better that cut and paste!

 

I think that is all anybody is saying here. But if you try to encourage that, the ususal suspects feel a need to stick their heads in here and denounce you as if you were promoting puppycide.

Edited December 13, 2009 by briansnat

[+Team Cotati]

I encourage everone to write the type of online log that suits them and their experience with a particular cache.

 

Most caches are not all that inspirational. It must be a regional thing, isolated to the few regions in which we have hunted for geoaches. If brief uninspired online logs disturb you, do not read logs on caches in any of the regions in which we have hunted for geocaches.

 

Be forewarned, the roadways in those regions are littered with dead and decaying puppy bodies.

[+KBI]

All I am promoting is that if you have the time, and the wherewithal to write something on the log page, and if you want to give a little something back to the cache owner, it will be better than simply TFTC and miles better that cut and paste!

I think that is all anybody is saying here. But if you try to encourage that, the ususal suspects feel a need to stick there heads in here and denounce you as if you were promoting puppycide.

Really? I haven’t seen that to be the case. I smell a strawman. Either that, or you are confusing two different concepts:

 

"Long, descriptive and unique logs are enjoyed more by cache owners than blunt, plain or cookiecutter logs."

A common sentiment in this thread. As you correctly point out, nobody in this thread has posted any disagreement with this idea.

 

"Long, descriptive and unique logs are the ONLY correct way to show proper respect to a cache owner because a blunt, plain or cookiecutter log is ALWAYS an INSULT."

This idea has been expressed as well. Some of us have taken exception to this idea. While we don’t quite see it as puppycide (), we don’t agree with the viewpoint.

 

See the difference?

[+flask]

Hey, flask... how's your neighbor's cat doing?

 

she's very busy these days.

 

i'll tell her you asked.

Edited December 13, 2009 by flask

[+briansnat]

"Long, descriptive and unique logs are enjoyed more by cache owners than blunt, plain or cookiecutter logs."

A common sentiment in this thread. As you correctly point out, nobody in this thread has posted any disagreement with this idea.

 

If you change that to "Long, descriptive OR unique logs are enjoyed more by cache owners than blunt, plain or cookiecutter logs." I'm on board with that.

 

"Long, descriptive and unique logs are the ONLY correct way to show proper respect to a cache owner because a blunt, plain or cookiecutter log is ALWAYS an INSULT."

 

This idea has been expressed as well. Some of us have taken exception to this idea. While we don’t quite see it as puppycide (rolleyes.gif), we don’t agree with the viewpoint.

 

Insult is not a term that I've used, nor is it an argument that I've been making.

[+Gipsie]

I agree with everyone and I really USED to hate reading copy and paste logs on my caches and still do.

 

Lately however I have been guilty of copying and pasting myself on some caches.

 

When I do an extreme cache, or a cache that brings me to an interesting place, or is a unique cool hide, I write a log. On some of the extreme caches I have been to I have filled up my log box with ease. I always try to write something about the cache in my log. I understand that people like to read the logs and appreciate that....and I really DO try!

 

HOWEVER, when I am with a group of people and they insist on stopping at every cache and 9 out of 10 or lamp post or guardrail micros, how do you write an interesting log? I will write on one of the 9, something to the effect of, "Great day caching with the ----- group. Thanks for the cache!" and copy and paste it on the cache pages. I am having fun caching with the group because I am having a good time with friends, but how can you write something interesting about a cache that was placed just for the fact that there was no cache within .1 miles?

 

I cannot write an interesting log for a cache called "Bumper" because someone was driving down the road, saw an abandoned car bumper and decided to place a cache.

 

Anyone else feel this way?