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Write a story or you're being disrespectful?


dougsmiley

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In the first year following the cache's publication the logs frequently mention swag - quite a bit of detail about exactly what was traded. Only two logs in the last year discuss swag at all, and only briefly.

 

Is the interest in trading swag correlated to the change in writing lengthy or unique logs? Along with writing logs, have folks lost interest in trading because of the quantity of caches?

 

Good question. I can’t imagine having anything more than a cursory interest in trading swag under any circumstance. If I had young children with me I'm sure it'd be a different story, but I still don’t think I’d talk about it in my log. Are folks less interested? Or are they just talking about it less in their logs? If they indeed are less interested, I can think of a number of reasons. But I can also think of valid reasons to exclude swag talk (and the like) from a log. That’s what I thought was interesting in reading through the logs on the cache linked above. The overall move from what I call polite chit-chat in logs to more no-nonsense logs.

 

Personally, I like no-nonsense far better than polite chit-chat. But what I really like reading/hearing is something heartfelt. Heartfelt can be short or long. And certainly not all caches (even the good ones) always inspire something heartfelt to say about them.

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Sbell, according to your post count, you like to be heard. My post count shows that I usually don't have too much to say. But let's be honest, if someone goes to the trouble of creating a cache, hiding a cache, posting it on the internet, the least a finder can do is say a short sentence. While I agree that some caches deserve no more of a post than a '.', some caches took weeks and even months to plan. I am in the midst of planning a cache that I can guarantee has NEVER been done before and will be unique, have nice views and be a fun find. When all is said and done, I will have over 100 hours in this cache. Personally, I think it deserves a little more of a find log than a cut and paste "TFTC."

 

While the title of this thread is about writing a story or you are being disrespectful, I think there is a very large MIDDLE ground. More than a TFTC and less than a novel. I basically own the town I live in when it comes to caches. I think every cache in town except 2 or 3 are mine. Some are simple magnetic or lamp skirt caches, others are small container caches, and some are ammo box trade caches. I even have one 5 Gallon Bucket cache here. So I put out a variety of caches, some were easy and some were more difficult.

 

Personally, it is disrespectful to do a cut and paste, short log for a nice cache. It would be akin to having a very fine dinner, excellent service, but because I eat out so much, I just leave a $1.00 tip. The only "tip" a cache hider gets is the "Find Log." Extra good caches deserve more of a "tip" than a simple lamp skirt cache.

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I can’t imagine having anything more than a cursory interest in trading swag under any circumstance.

This is a very interesting statement.

 

Let's consider the very fact that the hobby is named after, and based on, finding a container with items. The whole idea is to be able to find these boxes of goodies with a GPS.

 

Yet, less than 10 years into the hobby there are folks who couldn't imagine doing the very thing the hobby is based on.

 

What gives?

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I can’t imagine having anything more than a cursory interest in trading swag under any circumstance.

This is a very interesting statement.

 

Let's consider the very fact that the hobby is named after, and based on, finding a container with items. The whole idea is to be able to find these boxes of goodies with a GPS.

 

Yet, less than 10 years into the hobby there are folks who couldn't imagine doing the very thing the hobby is based on.

 

What gives?

 

The hobby hasn't so much changed as accomodated the natural way people adopt the activity.

 

An artificial response may be Groundspeak insisting all caches have items or not have any items, which would end up being observed as people saw fit anyway.

 

While about 66% of my finds are Log-Only, there are still quite a few with trade items, even in urban settings.

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Sbell, according to your post count, you like to be heard. My post count shows that I usually don't have too much to say. But let's be honest, if someone goes to the trouble of creating a cache, hiding a cache, posting it on the internet, the least a finder can do is say a short sentence. While I agree that some caches deserve no more of a post than a '.', some caches took weeks and even months to plan. I am in the midst of planning a cache that I can guarantee has NEVER been done before and will be unique, have nice views and be a fun find. When all is said and done, I will have over 100 hours in this cache. Personally, I think it deserves a little more of a find log than a cut and paste "TFTC."

 

While the title of this thread is about writing a story or you are being disrespectful, I think there is a very large MIDDLE ground. More than a TFTC and less than a novel. I basically own the town I live in when it comes to caches. I think every cache in town except 2 or 3 are mine. Some are simple magnetic or lamp skirt caches, others are small container caches, and some are ammo box trade caches. I even have one 5 Gallon Bucket cache here. So I put out a variety of caches, some were easy and some were more difficult.

 

Personally, it is disrespectful to do a cut and paste, short log for a nice cache. It would be akin to having a very fine dinner, excellent service, but because I eat out so much, I just leave a $1.00 tip. The only "tip" a cache hider gets is the "Find Log." Extra good caches deserve more of a "tip" than a simple lamp skirt cache.

 

Ok I cant resist responding to this post. We appreciate quality caches, but some folks are just not that creative. Just as some folks dont like typing long logs because they are not comfortable either typing on the computer or putting together a sentence, some folks just dont have what it takes to be creative in putting together a cache. Does that make their run of the mill LPC any less deserving of a good log entry if that is all they can think of to do? They put forth their best effort, even if it isnt a state of the art fantastic cache. Doesnt that deserve a nice log too?

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I've seen someone post in my neck of the woods once, "Left a straw."

 

Implied was, Your cache sucks.

:D

 

That comment would have gone right over my head... But now that you've explained it, I hope I never see it on one of our caches ;) )

 

MrsB

I'm not convinced that the post meant what webfoot believed it did. Without someone explaining their snark to me, I would never have gotten it. That being said, I don't believe that the logs are an appropriate venue for this type of 'wittiness'. If someone made this log (or DPM or any number of other oh-so-cool comments) on one of my caches, I would happily delete it and offer them the opportunity to relog if they can do so appropriately.

No. I actually had the cacher who wrote it tell me that's what he meant. I don't cache with him anymore.

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Sbell, according to your post count, you like to be heard. My post count shows that I usually don't have too much to say. But let's be honest, if someone goes to the trouble of creating a cache, hiding a cache, posting it on the internet, the least a finder can do is say a short sentence. While I agree that some caches deserve no more of a post than a '.', some caches took weeks and even months to plan. I am in the midst of planning a cache that I can guarantee has NEVER been done before and will be unique, have nice views and be a fun find. When all is said and done, I will have over 100 hours in this cache. Personally, I think it deserves a little more of a find log than a cut and paste "TFTC."

 

While the title of this thread is about writing a story or you are being disrespectful, I think there is a very large MIDDLE ground. More than a TFTC and less than a novel. I basically own the town I live in when it comes to caches. I think every cache in town except 2 or 3 are mine. Some are simple magnetic or lamp skirt caches, others are small container caches, and some are ammo box trade caches. I even have one 5 Gallon Bucket cache here. So I put out a variety of caches, some were easy and some were more difficult.

 

Personally, it is disrespectful to do a cut and paste, short log for a nice cache. It would be akin to having a very fine dinner, excellent service, but because I eat out so much, I just leave a $1.00 tip. The only "tip" a cache hider gets is the "Find Log." Extra good caches deserve more of a "tip" than a simple lamp skirt cache.

 

huh.

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I think there is a very large MIDDLE ground. More than a TFTC and less than a novel.

You just said a mouthful, my friend. In my opinion, the subject of this thread has been off since the very beginning. It isn't about "writing a story or you're being disrespectful". Its about respect. Period. While there may be an old ALR that requiring a story, I personally do not know of a single cache or a single cache owner that requires a "story". This thread is talking about cache finders going a little beyond cut & paste logs. Lets get this thread back into perspective, OK?
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I can’t imagine having anything more than a cursory interest in trading swag under any circumstance.

This is a very interesting statement.

 

Let's consider the very fact that the hobby is named after, and based on, finding a container with items. The whole idea is to be able to find these boxes of goodies with a GPS.

 

Yet, less than 10 years into the hobby there are folks who couldn't imagine doing the very thing the hobby is based on.

 

What gives?

I don't see the swag inside the container as being integral to the hobby. (And I do mean the swag; I'm not talking about the log). Isn't the hobby about finding a hidden container using an electronic gadget and your wits? I'd venture a guess that the first finders way back when were not blown away by what was in the container but rather by this extraordinarily cool new technology that allowed them to find it. Just my guess, though - I wasn't there.

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BlueDeuce, I do not understand your post. You posted 'huh.' There is no question mark, so your post is not a question. There is no exclamation point, so it is not exclamatory. So I looked up the word 'huh' at Merriam Webster.com. Here is what it said,

Main Entry: huh

Pronunciation: \a grunt articulated as a syllabic m or n with a voiceless onset, or as the syllable ˈhə or ˈhəⁿ, often ending in a glottal stop, and uttered with a range of intonations; often read as ˈhə\

Function: interjection

Etymology: imitative of a grunt

Date: 1608

 

—used to express surprise, disbelief, or confusion, or as an inquiry inviting affirmative reply

 

Since you did not use a question mark or exclamation point, it can't be surprise, confusion or an inquiry. Therefore, it must be disbelief. But you did not capitalize it either, so I must assert that you are weak in English Grammar skills as well.

 

So let me simplify things for you. If someone places a Geocache that you enjoyed finding, let them know by posting a sentence or two in your "Find Log." It is called class, courtesy, honor and respect.

Edited by Inmountains
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BlueDeuce, I do not understand your post. You posted 'huh.' There is no question mark, so your post is not a question. There is no exclamation point, so it is not exclamatory. So I looked up the word 'huh' at Merriam Webster.com. Here is what it said,

Main Entry: huh

Pronunciation: \a grunt articulated as a syllabic m or n with a voiceless onset, or as the syllable ˈhə or ˈhəⁿ, often ending in a glottal stop, and uttered with a range of intonations; often read as ˈhə\

Function: interjection

Etymology: imitative of a grunt

Date: 1608

 

—used to express surprise, disbelief, or confusion, or as an inquiry inviting affirmative reply

 

Since you did not use a question mark or exclamation point, it can't be surprise, confusion or an inquiry. Therefore, it must be disbelief. But you did not capitalize it either, so I must assert that you are weak in English Grammar skills as well.

 

So let me simplify things for you. If someone places a Geocache that you enjoyed finding, let them know by posting a sentence or two in your "Find Log." It is called class, courtesy, honor and respect.

 

Thank you for being so condescending.

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As far as folks finding my caches: I don’t require anything beyond whatever they happen to want to say in their log – even if all they want to say is "found it" or "TFTC" or "7 of 19 for today." Not everyone is a novelist; in fact some people detest writing. In my opinion that trait shouldn’t disqualify them from acceptance.

 

All caching is voluntary; therefore it is safe to assume that everyone who EVER finds one of my caches does so because he wants to. If a person isn’t having fun caching, presumably he will stop. Conclusion: Find log exists, therefore cacher is happy. Therefore I am happy.

 

As far as me finding other folks' caches: If anyone wants to delete my online find log from their cache purely because I didn’t meet their minimum literary requirement, that’s fine too. Doesn’t change the fact that I found the cache. If I want my find count number to be accurate I can always re-submit the log to one of my own caches where they can’t touch it, with full explanation.

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I can’t imagine having anything more than a cursory interest in trading swag under any circumstance.

This is a very interesting statement.

 

Let's consider the very fact that the hobby is named after, and based on, finding a container with items. The whole idea is to be able to find these boxes of goodies with a GPS.

 

Yet, less than 10 years into the hobby there are folks who couldn't imagine doing the very thing the hobby is based on.

 

What gives?

Is this hobby about finding the swag IN caches, or is it about finding caches? Which one is critical to the experience, and which one is incidental?

 

Given the choice, which would you prefer to find: swag without a container or a container with no swag?

 

I can’t speak for anyone else, but finding cleverly hidden or cleverly camouflaged containers, or finding containers in interesting locations, or simply having an excuse to play with my GPS – any one of those things is way more interesting than finding one more pile of the kind of stuff one finds in caches.

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BlueDeuce, I do not understand your post. You posted 'huh.' There is no question mark, so your post is not a question. There is no exclamation point, so it is not exclamatory. So I looked up the word 'huh' at Merriam Webster.com. Here is what it said,

Main Entry: huh

Pronunciation: \a grunt articulated as a syllabic m or n with a voiceless onset, or as the syllable ˈhə or ˈhəⁿ, often ending in a glottal stop, and uttered with a range of intonations; often read as ˈhə\

Function: interjection

Etymology: imitative of a grunt

Date: 1608

 

—used to express surprise, disbelief, or confusion, or as an inquiry inviting affirmative reply

 

Since you did not use a question mark or exclamation point, it can't be surprise, confusion or an inquiry. Therefore, it must be disbelief. But you did not capitalize it either, so I must assert that you are weak in English Grammar skills as well.

 

So let me simplify things for you. If someone places a Geocache that you enjoyed finding, let them know by posting a sentence or two in your "Find Log." It is called class, courtesy, honor and respect.

 

Thank you for being so condescending.

I did not find that post to be condescending in the least. I un-condescending have to agree with 'Inmountains in this case.
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Wow First off Flask needs to grow up. I promise you Flask and anyone else that complains about short logs if I ever find on of your caches I will put "found it" in the log and thats it and it will be just like that not even capitalized. I have almost always written atleast a sentence to personalize my logs but once in awhile I am in a rush and want to log it before I forget too and I have forgotten to log a few and ended up doing it months later. I have 1 cache hidden so far and will hide more. When people find my cache if all I get is a "TFTC" I am happy that person Thanked me what more can you ask for if they are thanking you obviously they liked your cache. My first cache took me and my wife a day to set up. Its a multi with decoys with jokes in them and still if I see "TFTC" I am happy. Some people cant type well others may have carpel tunnel or some valid reason and some people just arent writers. I am one of those people my replies to anything logs on here emails or anything else are always short and sweet thats just who I am. I am not a writer it takes me a long time to type anymore than a sentence because I can sum it all up in a sentence or less. If people are finding your cache be happy and stop whining. Your complaining is going to ruin the game for other people. To each thier own if you dont like short logs deal with it and just think how much happier you will be when someone writes an essay for a log for you so you can inflate your ego a little more its a community game hide and seek caches for the fun not for the recognition. The people that complain if they dont get long logs are the same type of people that think Christmas is about getting not giving. When you hide a cache you are giving to the community. When you give something you should do it because you enjoy it not for the recognition. Also if you feel you need a long log do us all a favor(I cant believe I am about to say this) and dont hide the cache it will save everyone from dealing with a big pain in the a**.

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Wow First off Flask needs to grow up. I promise you Flask and anyone else that complains about short logs if I ever find on of your caches I will put "found it" in the log and thats it and it will be just like that not even capitalized.
Wow!!! I don't even need to read beyond those words to suggest that you are the one that needs to "grow up'!! Flask, at the very least, has made an intellectual argument for her point. Sheesh! Grow up before you post that sort of rubbish, OK?
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BlueDeuce, I do not understand your post. You posted 'huh.' There is no question mark, so your post is not a question. There is no exclamation point, so it is not exclamatory. So I looked up the word 'huh' at Merriam Webster.com. Here is what it said,

Main Entry: huh

Pronunciation: \a grunt articulated as a syllabic m or n with a voiceless onset, or as the syllable ˈhə or ˈhəⁿ, often ending in a glottal stop, and uttered with a range of intonations; often read as ˈhə\

Function: interjection

Etymology: imitative of a grunt

Date: 1608

 

—used to express surprise, disbelief, or confusion, or as an inquiry inviting affirmative reply

 

Since you did not use a question mark or exclamation point, it can't be surprise, confusion or an inquiry. Therefore, it must be disbelief. But you did not capitalize it either, so I must assert that you are weak in English Grammar skills as well.

 

So let me simplify things for you. If someone places a Geocache that you enjoyed finding, let them know by posting a sentence or two in your "Find Log." It is called class, courtesy, honor and respect.

 

Thank you for being so condescending.

I did not find that post to be condescending in the least. I un-condescending have to agree with 'Inmountains in this case.

 

huh.

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Wow First off Flask needs to grow up. yada yada yada Also if you feel you need a long log do us all a favor(I cant believe I am about to say this) and dont hide the cache it will save everyone from dealing with a big pain in the a**.

Repeat as needed

The best thing about geocaching is that it is open to everyone.

The worst thing about geocaching is... that it is open to everyone.

 

New here, huh? That kind of post won't win you any friends or arguments!

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I don't see the swag inside the container as being integral to the hobby.

It's. In. The. Name!

 

Isn't the hobby about finding a hidden container using an electronic gadget and your wits? I'd venture a guess that the first finders way back when were not blown away by what was in the container but rather by this extraordinarily cool new technology that allowed them to find it. Just my guess, though - I wasn't there.

No, you weren't there, but that's not stopping you from speculating. Personally, I found it interesting what folks left. Not that I always traded. Sissy did most of the trading. She fell in love in plastic frogs. The van's dash was full of them. I'd peek in to see what was available and if it was something neat, I'd trade. I've picked up all kinds of stuff. Pretty cool stuff, too. I've come across quite a few interesting things. Some that were so expensive that I'd have to have left my PDA or the GPS as a fair trade!

 

Maybe it's your area or the caches you hunt. Maybe all the good caches are gone in your area, if they ever existed to begin with. Maybe that's all you know.

 

No, it's not all about the trades, but it is a key element of a good cache. The way the hobby is going then Groundspeak might as well do away with all physical caches and bring back virtuals. Oh, wait. They did do a smilie-less version--it's called Waymarking.

 

TPTB, PLEASE, PLEASE, add smilies to Waymarking so tradeless, logless, "cachers" can have something that better suits them!

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Wow First off Flask needs to grow up. I promise you Flask and anyone else that complains about short logs if I ever find on of your caches I will put "found it" in the log and thats it and it will be just like that not even capitalized.
Wow!!! I don't even need to read beyond those words to suggest that you are the one that needs to "grow up'!! Flask, at the very least, has made an intellectual argument for her point. Sheesh! Grow up before you post that sort of rubbish, OK?

That's no joke.

 

As cantankerous as Flask can be, she certainly had a very well articulated point. I don't share her penchant for long logs, but I will write a log about that cache.

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In my opinion, the subject of this thread has been off since the very beginning. It isn't about "writing a story or you're being disrespectful". Its about respect. Period. While there may be an old ALR that requiring a story, I personally do not know of a single cache or a single cache owner that requires a "story". This thread is talking about cache finders going a little beyond cut & paste logs. Lets get this thread back into perspective, OK?

 

AMEN.

 

The OP in this thread made the title, but he clearly didn't get that his rudeness was not about the length of his logs -- it was the fact that he cut-and-pasted 111 identical logs after a numbers run.

 

Long cut-and-paste logs are just as rude as short ones. It's the lack of any attempt to actually remember the individual caches that shows a lack of respect, not the log lengths.

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Thats just wrong.

You may be right. Got a counter theory?

 

Sbell may have nailed it in part. The mass quantity of caches (which I appreciate having) I think detracts from online logging. We typically only do a few caches a day, maybe even 10 caches at a time. The experience stays with us, and it shows in our logs. Quite a few folks log their finds without even seeing the cache page. There seems to be less emphasis on the cache page and logs. Just a different mindset in caching as the sport/ hobby/game grows.

This sounds curiously like the "Tragedy of the Commons" theory I postulated earlier. :laughing:

 

Wow <snip>

Am I the only one that noticed Siva283 used 2018 characters to tell us he "can sum it all up in a sentence or less"? :):P

(Sorry, just struck me as funny...)

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Sbell, according to your post count, you like to be heard. My post count shows that I usually don't have too much to say. But let's be honest, if someone goes to the trouble of creating a cache, hiding a cache, posting it on the internet, the least a finder can do is say a short sentence. While I agree that some caches deserve no more of a post than a '.', some caches took weeks and even months to plan. I am in the midst of planning a cache that I can guarantee has NEVER been done before and will be unique, have nice views and be a fun find. When all is said and done, I will have over 100 hours in this cache. Personally, I think it deserves a little more of a find log than a cut and paste "TFTC."

 

While the title of this thread is about writing a story or you are being disrespectful, I think there is a very large MIDDLE ground. More than a TFTC and less than a novel. I basically own the town I live in when it comes to caches. I think every cache in town except 2 or 3 are mine. Some are simple magnetic or lamp skirt caches, others are small container caches, and some are ammo box trade caches. I even have one 5 Gallon Bucket cache here. So I put out a variety of caches, some were easy and some were more difficult.

 

Personally, it is disrespectful to do a cut and paste, short log for a nice cache. It would be akin to having a very fine dinner, excellent service, but because I eat out so much, I just leave a $1.00 tip. The only "tip" a cache hider gets is the "Find Log." Extra good caches deserve more of a "tip" than a simple lamp skirt cache.

 

huh.

 

I thought the tip analogy was a good one. What is it about Inmountains' post that confuses you?

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In my opinion, the subject of this thread has been off since the very beginning. It isn't about "writing a story or you're being disrespectful". Its about respect. Period. While there may be an old ALR that requiring a story, I personally do not know of a single cache or a single cache owner that requires a "story". This thread is talking about cache finders going a little beyond cut & paste logs. Lets get this thread back into perspective, OK?

 

AMEN.

 

The OP in this thread made the title, but he clearly didn't get that his rudeness was not about the length of his logs -- it was the fact that he cut-and-pasted 111 identical logs after a numbers run.

 

Long cut-and-paste logs are just as rude as short ones. It's the lack of any attempt to actually remember the individual caches that shows a lack of respect, not the log lengths.

 

Fizzymagic and knowschad....very well said. Sums things up nicely.

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I personally prefer to write more than TFTC, even though I'm typically submitting it using the iphone...I'll sit and type out a story, at least a couple of sentences, and then go back later and expand if something interesting happened. While I'm okay with someone just doing TFTC on the cache I hid (hey, at least they found it!), I prefer to be more explicit with the story because, well, I like to tell stories. :)

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Sbell, according to your post count, you like to be heard. My post count shows that I usually don't have too much to say. ...
... Personally, I think it deserves a little more of a find log than a cut and paste "TFTC." ... Personally, it is disrespectful to do a cut and paste, short log for a nice cache. ...
Please note the two stements above. Both are very interesting in that they make assumptions that are not based on any real evidence.
... Since you did not use a question mark or exclamation point, it can't be surprise, confusion or an inquiry. Therefore, it must be disbelief. But you did not capitalize it either, so I must assert that you are weak in English Grammar skills as well.
Going back to your earlier comparison between my post count and yours, perhaps I have a higher count because I (generally) choose to observe the forum guidelines.
It is called class, courtesy, honor and respect.
Pretty ironic statement considering the rest of your post.
I don't see the swag inside the container as being integral to the hobby. (And I do mean the swag; I'm not talking about the log). Isn't the hobby about finding a hidden container using an electronic gadget and your wits? I'd venture a guess that the first finders way back when were not blown away by what was in the container but rather by this extraordinarily cool new technology that allowed them to find it. Just my guess, though - I wasn't there.

I wasn't there, either, but I am aware of what was in that first cache and did participate in the game during the formative period. I never saw the game as being 'about the swag'. It was always about finding a hidden container (or location) using only coordinates posted by a stranger on the internet. Swag was incidental for most players.
... As far as me finding other folks' caches: If anyone wants to delete my online find log from their cache purely because I didn’t meet their minimum literary requirement, that’s fine too. Doesn’t change the fact that I found the cache. If I want my find count number to be accurate I can always re-submit the log to one of my own caches where they can’t touch it, with full explanation.
Alternatively, you could just get TPTB to reinstate your log.
Sbell may have nailed it in part. The mass quantity of caches (which I appreciate having) I think detracts from online logging. We typically only do a few caches a day, maybe even 10 caches at a time. The experience stays with us, and it shows in our logs. Quite a few folks log their finds without even seeing the cache page. There seems to be less emphasis on the cache page and logs. Just a different mindset in caching as the sport/ hobby/game grows.
This sounds curiously like the "Tragedy of the Commons" theory I postulated earlier. :)
The irony of 'tragedy of the commons' is that the commons have no clue what it means. Edited by sbell111
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Like just about everything else in this hobby, "it depends." Depends on the cache, the person placing it, the person finding it, the weather, one's mood ...

 

We can't control what others do, and if one expects that to happen, one is bound to feel disappointment (though characterizing someone else's actions—or lack thereof—as "disgraceful" may be carrying that disappointment a little to the extreme!).

 

My sense is that you do the best you can. I would never, for example, discover a puzzle cache that someone put a lot of time, energy, and thought into devising, and leave it with a simple TFTC. That kind of effort makes me want to respond in kind. In the same way, a guard-rail cache that took all of five minutes to place merits about that much of my attention, too. So maybe what I'm saying is that I look for a balance: I'll put in as much as the cache placer did.

 

Your mileage may vary ...

 

Jeannette (angevine)

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I don't see the swag inside the container as being integral to the hobby.

It's. In. The. Name!

 

Isn't the hobby about finding a hidden container using an electronic gadget and your wits? I'd venture a guess that the first finders way back when were not blown away by what was in the container but rather by this extraordinarily cool new technology that allowed them to find it. Just my guess, though - I wasn't there.

No, you weren't there, but that's not stopping you from speculating. Personally, I found it interesting what folks left. Not that I always traded. Sissy did most of the trading. She fell in love in plastic frogs. The van's dash was full of them. I'd peek in to see what was available and if it was something neat, I'd trade. I've picked up all kinds of stuff. Pretty cool stuff, too. I've come across quite a few interesting things. Some that were so expensive that I'd have to have left my PDA or the GPS as a fair trade!

 

Maybe it's your area or the caches you hunt. Maybe all the good caches are gone in your area, if they ever existed to begin with. Maybe that's all you know.

 

No, it's not all about the trades, but it is a key element of a good cache. The way the hobby is going then Groundspeak might as well do away with all physical caches and bring back virtuals. Oh, wait. They did do a smilie-less version--it's called Waymarking.

 

TPTB, PLEASE, PLEASE, add smilies to Waymarking so tradeless, logless, "cachers" can have something that better suits them!

 

Let me make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying that swag is so integral to the hobby that those of us who don't love it should just get lost? We should switch to Waymarking? (ie. I have to do this sport your way? If so, why?) I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse, but it feels like you're jumping down my throat. I just want to make sure I understand why.

Edited by terrkan78
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Being the season that it is, my viewpoint is thus:

 

If you cut and pasted an email response "TFTG - IWJWIW"* to all you friends and family who gave you gift this year, would you be disrespectful? Would you expect them to just as generous next year?

 

To make it topical - substitute cache for gift, log for email, cache owner for friends and family.

 

And does a cut and paste 'TFTC" really mean 'thanks' - you wrote that once, but just sent copies to everyone else. It's almost an echo of a thanks.

 

 

 

 

*if you can't figure it out "Thanks For The Gift - It Was Just What I Wanted"

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Being the season that it is, my viewpoint is thus:

 

If you cut and pasted an email response "TFTG - IWJWIW"* to all you friends and family who gave you gift this year, would you be disrespectful? Would you expect them to just as generous next year?

 

To make it topical - substitute cache for gift, log for email, cache owner for friends and family.

 

And does a cut and paste 'TFTC" really mean 'thanks' - you wrote that once, but just sent copies to everyone else. It's almost an echo of a thanks.

 

*if you can't figure it out "Thanks For The Gift - It Was Just What I Wanted"

On another forum, there was a thread where the OP was ranting that some family member sent them one of those custom picture Christmas cards that had the sender's name preprinted on it. Most responders were stated taht they would not care about the issue.

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Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.

Without putting words in my mouth?

 

Are you saying that swag is so integral to the hobby that those of us who don't love it should just get lost?

Nope. Couldn't do it.*

 

We should switch to Waymarking? (ie. I have to do this sport your way? If so, why?) I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse, but it feels like you're jumping down my throat. I just want to make sure I understand why.

The reason "why" is that you're pretty much saying that geocaching has nothing to do with the trade items. You said "I don't see the swag inside the container as being integral to the hobby." I said that it's so integral as to be part of the name of the hobby.

 

Before that you said, "I can’t imagine having anything more than a cursory interest in trading swag under any circumstance." So, there is nothing in a cache that would pique your interest?

 

So, with what you're presented me is that you're only interested in signing your name in a logbook. What is the logbook for? To prove you're there, right? Seems to me that if that's all you're interested in then Waymarking would be a much better fit. Unless you don't like that you don't get a smilie.

 

Do I think geocaching is not the hobby for you? If you think that geocaching has nothing to do with caching, then yes, I think geocaching is not for you.

 

*The difference in "loving trading" and thinking the hobby is actually about caching items is key.

Edited by CoyoteRed
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Just to demonstrate that it isn't neccessarily the quality of the cache that elicits TFTC and other C&P logs, these are all logs from the same cache. I'm quoting them here so as to not point fingers to specific individuals, even if they may deserve it:

 

 

What an awesome way to finish out a couple hours of caching. Amazing view. Great spot. I wrote it in the log and I'll write it here: THIS is why I geocache! I left a GC and snapped some pics which I'll post later. Thanks for bringing me here.

 

 

 

Thought mom would have a heart attack as I searched for this one. Been scrambling on terrain like this all my life and yet she still worries :) Great cache spot, these are my favorite sorts of finds. Took the GC, shall move it along. Left a little pterodactyl friend as I thought he'd like the cliffs. TFTC.

 

What a view! I have to admit my knees were shaking a bit when reaching for the box. Great, great, cache spot!

 

What a beautiful day to cache. TFTC
(this was a C&P log)

 

TFTC

 

 

Sa-weeeet! What a great cache! A non-caching pal and I drove down to this nice park as I had my sights set on this cache for a few days. I needed a cache of this terrain/difficulty rating; I am still trying fill in all my blocks for a "Komplete Geocaching" challenge back home. So my pal and I went to the stone-walled overlook and then I realized where I had to go; he didn't want to go but instead hiked around taking some pics. I had a lot of trouble trying to figure out just what exactly was GZ. As it turned out I missed the cache on my first glance; not realizing this of course I was crawling, climbing, hanging, etc. all over the place. One knobby piece of rock that I used as a hand hold actually broke off icon_smile_shock.gif but I at least had a good foothold. I finally found the cache and to no surprise I missed it the first time because it was pretty-well concealed.

 

The views and terrain are great - thanks for brining me here to see such things, and thanks for the challenge. Took nothing, left the DiverVan geocoin and the "Don't Be a Chicken" TB (which wants to visit caches like these). NEXT FINDER: open the cache carefully - the TB is kinda crammed in there and I'd hate to hear about any gravity experiments on it. PS: I realize now that I wrote the wrong date (8/15/09) on all my cache finds today, but I was there today. TFTC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just to demonstrate that it isn't neccessarily the quality of the cache that elicits TFTC and other C&P logs, these are all logs from the same cache.

Great example!

 

The logs as a whole tell the owner that the cache is a hit.

 

6 logs, none negative in the slightest.

 

4 out of 6 logs are commentary on the cacher's experience at the cache.

 

1 of 6 is a CnP, which the CO would only know if the cacher hit more than one of their caches, in itself a compliment, and which makes no comment on the cache but indicates that the cacher is enjoying a nice day of geocaching. It further includes a thank you to the owner for hiding the cache.

 

1 out of 6 simply says TFTC, which interpreted literally means "Thanks For The Cache", an expression of appreciation from cacher to owner.

 

I see nothing wrong with any of those logs! :)

 

Any cache owner who takes offense to the one TFTC log is just looking for something to be upset about.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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1 out of 6 simply says TFTC, which interpreted literally means "Thanks For The Cache", an expression of appreciation from cacher to owner.

 

and yet when interpreted literally, so many things completely fail to correctly convey meaning.

 

literalists nearly never adequately express what's really meant, nor do they show appropriate comprehension. try reading a novel, an article, or a good portion of even traffic signs strictly literally and see if you don't come off much in the wrong.

 

"how are you?" taken literally expresses the asker's interest in one's condition. it usually means "i wish to exchange meaningless pleasantry in order to indicate a friendly greeting."

 

nobody ever wishes to appear so lazy and ungrateful as to say "your cache is just another notch in my belt; i'd thank you for providing me with another smilie, but i really haven't the time and let's face it: i've gotten what i wanted and i'm off to the next."

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This is SandyCreekPirates trying not to single anyone out or step on any toes:

 

I am new here, but I can't resist putting my two cents worth in this mix. I found this thread by searching for the keyword 'logsheets' or 'logbook'. Can't remember exactly which one. My goal was to see what kind of log sheet or book cachers like to have available, as I am considering placing a few caches of my own. I wondered if cachers would rather have a small log sheet to write their handle on or if they would like a notebook to use as a sort of cache journal.

 

Upon reading through part of this thread (I got to the point I couldn't believe what I was reading and decided to skip most of it) I realized that it doesn't matter what sort of log book I put into my caches because I will not be able to make everyone happy. All I can hope for in this respect is that the cachers who find my hides will appreciate the time and effort that I have put into them.

 

I also realized that while my geocaching experience is very rewarding to me, it is rewarding for different reasons than others who participate in geocaching. The fact that people place caches with consideration for the view, history, etc. is cool. I can appreciate the fact that those cache owners put that forethought into their caches or that ground zero might be a special place for them. That does not mean that ground zero has the same effect for me. While the view may be amazing or the history intriguing, I am there for the cache. I am not there to put a notch in my belt, nor am I there to see the sights. If the cache owner specifically addresses the view or the history I usually take a closer look, but if I don't, am I a bad person? A disrespectful person? I hope not! I was raised otherwise!

 

In the end, I have realized that everyone is not going to be happy. I have realized that not everyone plays the game for the same reason. And I have realized that not everyone has the same outlook. I would like to think that each is entitled to his/her own judgement. Have I left short, cookie cutter logs? Yes, I have. Will I leave short, cookie cutter logs? After reading some of these posts... probably not. Do I participate in geocaching for the same reasons you do? Again, after reading some of these posts... probably not. Do I find myself hostile when others do not comform to my ideal? NO!

 

I enjoy searching out the hides. I do sign the log sheet/book in the cache and I do log the find online. Am I chasing numbers? Definitely not. In fact, let's take the number away from the side of our user names. I couldn't care less. I am not competing with anyone else. My wife, my daughters, myself and a cache to find are what make this fun for me. Geocaching is something other than sitting around the house (not that there's anything particularly wrong with sitting around the house) that I can do with my family before my kids think they're too old to hang out with their dear old parents. Geocaching allows us to do something fun together as a family without the need to sit on the couch and stare at the tv while NOT talking/spending quality time.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to any cache owners that I have offended by posting short, cookie cutter logs. My intention was never to offend anyone. Thank you, cache owners, for taking time to place caches with the enjoyment of strangers in mind. I, as well as (I think) everyone else here, would like to commend you on your work!

 

I think this covers it for now. If I have anything else, I'll interject again... I do that sometimes.

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1 out of 6 simply says TFTC, which interpreted literally means "Thanks For The Cache", an expression of appreciation from cacher to owner.

 

and yet when interpreted literally, so many things completely fail to correctly convey meaning.

 

literalists nearly never adequately express what's really meant, nor do they show appropriate comprehension. try reading a novel, an article, or a good portion of even traffic signs strictly literally and see if you don't come off much in the wrong.

 

"how are you?" taken literally expresses the asker's interest in one's condition. it usually means "i wish to exchange meaningless pleasantry in order to indicate a friendly greeting."

 

nobody ever wishes to appear so lazy and ungrateful as to say "your cache is just another notch in my belt; i'd thank you for providing me with another smilie, but i really haven't the time and let's face it: i've gotten what i wanted and i'm off to the next."

So then nothing has meaning except that with which we each choose to imbue it?

 

Everything is open to personal interpretation, and we can take the acronym for the phrase Thanks For The Cache (TFTC) and on a whim decide that it means something else?

 

Therefore an optimist will intepret TFTC as "Thanks For The Cache" and a pessimist will interpret TFTC as "This cache sux, thanks for nothing" and those who have no particular thoughts of their own will imbue it with whatever their favorite chosen someone in a forum told them it means?

 

Can you think of any other acronym which is commonly interpreted to mean some other words beside what the letters of the acronym stand for?

 

The Acronym Finder finds 7 'confirmed' meanings for TFTC, the highest rated and only one relevant to Geocaching is Thanks For The Cache.

 

http://www.acronymfinder.com/TFTC.html

 

It also finds 14 'possible' other meanings... none of which is anything like 'I am lazy and disrespectful' or 'This crummy cache was a waste of my time'.

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This is SandyCreekPirates trying not to single anyone out or step on any toes:

 

I am new here, but I can't resist putting my two cents worth in this mix. I found this thread by searching for the keyword 'logsheets' or 'logbook'. Can't remember exactly which one. My goal was to see what kind of log sheet or book cachers like to have available, as I am considering placing a few caches of my own. I wondered if cachers would rather have a small log sheet to write their handle on or if they would like a notebook to use as a sort of cache journal.

 

Upon reading through part of this thread (I got to the point I couldn't believe what I was reading and decided to skip most of it) I realized that it doesn't matter what sort of log book I put into my caches because I will not be able to make everyone happy. All I can hope for in this respect is that the cachers who find my hides will appreciate the time and effort that I have put into them.

 

I also realized that while my geocaching experience is very rewarding to me, it is rewarding for different reasons than others who participate in geocaching. The fact that people place caches with consideration for the view, history, etc. is cool. I can appreciate the fact that those cache owners put that forethought into their caches or that ground zero might be a special place for them. That does not mean that ground zero has the same effect for me. While the view may be amazing or the history intriguing, I am there for the cache. I am not there to put a notch in my belt, nor am I there to see the sights. If the cache owner specifically addresses the view or the history I usually take a closer look, but if I don't, am I a bad person? A disrespectful person? I hope not! I was raised otherwise!

 

In the end, I have realized that everyone is not going to be happy. I have realized that not everyone plays the game for the same reason. And I have realized that not everyone has the same outlook. I would like to think that each is entitled to his/her own judgement. Have I left short, cookie cutter logs? Yes, I have. Will I leave short, cookie cutter logs? After reading some of these posts... probably not. Do I participate in geocaching for the same reasons you do? Again, after reading some of these posts... probably not. Do I find myself hostile when others do not comform to my ideal? NO!

 

I enjoy searching out the hides. I do sign the log sheet/book in the cache and I do log the find online. Am I chasing numbers? Definitely not. In fact, let's take the number away from the side of our user names. I couldn't care less. I am not competing with anyone else. My wife, my daughters, myself and a cache to find are what make this fun for me. Geocaching is something other than sitting around the house (not that there's anything particularly wrong with sitting around the house) that I can do with my family before my kids think they're too old to hang out with their dear old parents. Geocaching allows us to do something fun together as a family without the need to sit on the couch and stare at the tv while NOT talking/spending quality time.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to any cache owners that I have offended by posting short, cookie cutter logs. My intention was never to offend anyone. Thank you, cache owners, for taking time to place caches with the enjoyment of strangers in mind. I, as well as (I think) everyone else here, would like to commend you on your work!

 

I think this covers it for now. If I have anything else, I'll interject again... I do that sometimes.

Thanks for posting, SandyCreekPirates. Don't let this thread get you down. First of all, as someone here says in their forum signature, do not confuse the forum postings with real life geocaching. Also, this thread is referring to the online logging, and not to the physical logbook in the cache (which, these days, seldom contains more than a date and a signature). I obviously don't know if you've offended any cache owners by using short or copy/paste logs, but at least you now know that at least some cache owners prefer more. The others don't care, so obviously, more is better (well, not really "more", but just something personal, individual, thoughtful).
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I will admit to having not read the entire thread... I generally get nice logs on my caches. Generally. But, if you want to find a cache with a spectacular cache in dense fog, that is your prerogative. If all you feel like saying is: TNLNSL, that is your prerogative. Actually, I do not understand why some people feel the need to blather on and on in a cache log! "Write a story or you're being disrespectful"??? That's an ALR, and no longer permitted!

I'm not noted for long-winded blather logs (especially since GC will time you out if you take too long!) If I like your cache, I will say so. If I don't like it, I will also tell you so. :) But don't expect a novella from me. You ain't getting it. Why would anyone expect one?!?

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I will admit to having not read the entire thread... I generally get nice logs on my caches. Generally. But, if you want to find a cache with a spectacular cache in dense fog, that is your prerogative. If all you feel like saying is: TNLNSL, that is your prerogative. Actually, I do not understand why some people feel the need to blather on and on in a cache log! "Write a story or you're being disrespectful"??? That's an ALR, and no longer permitted!

I'm not noted for long-winded blather logs (especially since GC will time you out if you take too long!) If I like your cache, I will say so. If I don't like it, I will also tell you so. :) But don't expect a novella from me. You ain't getting it. Why would anyone expect one?!?

No it is not an ALR!!! Not even close. "Write a story or I'll delete your log"... that would be an ALR. Also, if you had read the entire post, you'd know that we are not really talking about "writing a story", but about taking a few extra seconds to write something that conveys the fact that you are more than a robot. Edited by knowschad
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I will admit to having not read the entire thread... I generally get nice logs on my caches. Generally. But, if you want to find a cache with a spectacular cache in dense fog, that is your prerogative. If all you feel like saying is: TNLNSL, that is your prerogative. Actually, I do not understand why some people feel the need to blather on and on in a cache log! "Write a story or you're being disrespectful"??? That's an ALR, and no longer permitted!

I'm not noted for long-winded blather logs (especially since GC will time you out if you take too long!) If I like your cache, I will say so. If I don't like it, I will also tell you so. :) But don't expect a novella from me. You ain't getting it. Why would anyone expect one?!?

No it is not an ALR!!! Not even close. "Write a story or I'll delete your log"... that would be an ALR. Also, if you had read the entire post, you'd know that we are not really talking about "writing a story", but about taking a few extra seconds to write something that conveys the fact that you are more than a robot.

As I said, if you want to hunt my cache with the spectacular view, in the dense fog, and log SLTNLN, that's your prerogative. Nice logs are nice. But, I'm not disrespected by "Found it". I may wonder why you bothered, but I have no problems with numbers runs.

6f2f2297-82e5-4acc-b091-f88e21db209d.jpg

View on hazy day

ab7a6f50-73d1-43c5-97dd-c138069d64a8.jpg

View on great day

True. He did post the photo. I bring you here for the view. If you want to visit for a log on a hazy day, that's alright with me too.

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I found this thread by searching for the keyword 'logsheets' or 'logbook'. Can't remember exactly which one. My goal was to see what kind of log sheet or book cachers like to have available, as I am considering placing a few caches of my own. I wondered if cachers would rather have a small log sheet to write their handle on or if they would like a notebook to use as a sort of cache journal.

 

I would recommend that you place a notepad in your cache, as opposed to a sheet of paper with table of tiny cells suitable for only a date and trailname. A notepad would please the widest audience. Those who prefer to leave a longer log noting their cache experience will have plenty of room (I like to use a signature stamp and appreciate the room to stamp in and leave a note) and those who just want to leave a date and their trailname will of course have that choice too.

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As I said, if you want to hunt my cache with the spectacular view, in the dense fog, and log SLTNLN, that's your prerogative. Nice logs are nice. But, I'm not disrespected by "Found it". I may wonder why you bothered, but I have no problems with numbers runs.

True. He did post the photo. I bring you here for the view. If you want to visit for a log on a hazy day, that's alright with me too.

Well, good for you. I guess that makes you a bigger person than me. Me, I find them (lazy logging, not number runs) to be disrespectful and lazy. Number runs? I have no issue there. Done a few myself. Got individual logs for each and every one. Maybe I just have more time on my hands... that is a very real possibility.
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I found this thread by searching for the keyword 'logsheets' or 'logbook'. Can't remember exactly which one. My goal was to see what kind of log sheet or book cachers like to have available, as I am considering placing a few caches of my own. I wondered if cachers would rather have a small log sheet to write their handle on or if they would like a notebook to use as a sort of cache journal.

 

I would recommend that you place a notepad in your cache, as opposed to a sheet of paper with table of tiny cells suitable for only a date and trailname. A notepad would please the widest audience. Those who prefer to leave a longer log noting their cache experience will have plenty of room (I like to use a signature stamp and appreciate the room to stamp in and leave a note) and those who just want to leave a date and their trailname will of course have that choice too.

 

I agree! Think this is the route I'll take. Thank you for the input!

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As I said, if you want to hunt my cache with the spectacular view, in the dense fog, and log SLTNLN, that's your prerogative. Nice logs are nice. But, I'm not disrespected by "Found it". I may wonder why you bothered, but I have no problems with numbers runs.

True. He did post the photo. I bring you here for the view. If you want to visit for a log on a hazy day, that's alright with me too.

Well, good for you. I guess that makes you a bigger person than me. Me, I find them (lazy logging, not number runs) to be disrespectful and lazy. Number runs? I have no issue there. Done a few myself. Got individual logs for each and every one. Maybe I just have more time on my hands... that is a very real possibility.
I have been called on the carpet, and rightfully so, IMO, for the tone of my reply. Sorry, I did not intend the snarkiness. I only intended to make it clear that the OP was not talking about an ALR situation. I apolgise, in particular for the "bigger person" remark. Friends???
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