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FTF versus park hours


_Shaddow_
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well, the difference between the speeding and the going into the closed park is that when you are stopped, the officer will not need to know that you are geocaching.

 

if you are stopped in a closed park you will be asked what you're doing there.

 

in the last twelve days crashco and i have been stopped and questioned twice for late night geocaching. in both instances we were there legally and sent away with the officer's blessing.

 

once we as a group show up on their radar as being likely to be in parks after closed hours, it will only end in tears.

 

there are too many little busybodies out looking for ways to meddle and they will be only too happy to harass city council members until geocaching is made illegal in their town.

 

parking where forbidden, going into closed parks, hopping fences, going onto posted lands; these are all things that will put us in an unattractive light and create a hostile environment.

 

speeding not so much, since your average joe speeds some on most days. average joe doesn't hang out in parks after closing, though.

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Well, must admit that my last FTF (I only have 3 or 4) was in a park after park hours (I found it at about 0200h). I didn't park in the parks parking lot because I figured that that may result in some negitive attention. I personly didn't think about the ethics of this much.

 

I guess it is realy not a good idea. But I would have done that same thing as a teenager if I had wanted to take a date on a romatic walk or something. I have always viewed rules that have no impact on others as guidlines.

 

PS Who here speeds (when geocaching or not)? I view these rules in the same catagory (guidelines) I don't speed so much that I will get ticketed, and I only go into parks after hours if I am prety sure that I will not be noticed.

 

PPS I did not know that the park closed at night untill I had driven 25 min (at 0130h) to get there, I wasn't about to turn around and go home.

 

the problem with this line of thinking is that your actions do have an impact on others regardless if you realize it, disagree or just don't care. By going into a park after hours, looking for a geocache, you are representing the entire geocaching community. When the park ranger, camp host, cop or neighbor who owns a home across the street from the park that you have just tresapssed on after hours, catches you they immediately develop an opinion that ALL geocachers must be that way. Even if they don't think that we are all that way most, or even some is bad enough in their minds. People who live near these areas and the people whose job it is to enforce the rules of said parks don't care if you are alone. They figure if your like that then there are probably others and they would be right in that sumation.

 

When you speed to a cache, or any other location you are on your own at that point, but the second you break out your flashlight and start rooting around in shrubs looking for a cache or bushwhacking through forests on the way to a cache because you can't see the trail that would be obvious in the day light, you are casting a bad light on all of us. And if you've driven 20+ miles to the cache only to discover that the cache is in a park that is closed after dusk, get a clue. Almost all parks are closed once the sun goes down so it would be best for you to just stay home, set your alarm for an hour before sunrise and look for the cache once the park opens.

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But I have to say that it is absolutely false that breaking rules don’t affect other people. Rather, breaking rules does affect other people. It was a hard pill for me to shallow at first and now I can see clearly that it is true.

 

Thank you _Shaddow_ perhaps now you understand where my frustration was coming from even if it doesn't change your opinion of what was said.

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Well, must admit that my last FTF (I only have 3 or 4) was in a park after park hours (I found it at about 0200h). I didn't park in the parks parking lot because I figured that that may result in some negitive attention. I personly didn't think about the ethics of this much.

 

I guess it is realy not a good idea. But I would have done that same thing as a teenager if I had wanted to take a date on a romatic walk or something. I have always viewed rules that have no impact on others as guidlines.

 

PS Who here speeds (when geocaching or not)? I view these rules in the same catagory (guidelines) I don't speed so much that I will get ticketed, and I only go into parks after hours if I am prety sure that I will not be noticed.

 

PPS I did not know that the park closed at night untill I had driven 25 min (at 0130h) to get there, I wasn't about to turn around and go home.

 

the problem with this line of thinking is that your actions do have an impact on others regardless if you realize it, disagree or just don't care. By going into a park after hours, looking for a geocache, you are representing the entire geocaching community. When the park ranger, camp host, cop or neighbor who owns a home across the street from the park that you have just tresapssed on after hours, catches you they immediately develop an opinion that ALL geocachers must be that way. Even if they don't think that we are all that way most, or even some is bad enough in their minds. People who live near these areas and the people whose job it is to enforce the rules of said parks don't care if you are alone. They figure if your like that then there are probably others and they would be right in that sumation.

 

When you speed to a cache, or any other location you are on your own at that point, but the second you break out your flashlight and start rooting around in shrubs looking for a cache or bushwhacking through forests on the way to a cache because you can't see the trail that would be obvious in the day light, you are casting a bad light on all of us. And if you've driven 20+ miles to the cache only to discover that the cache is in a park that is closed after dusk, get a clue. Almost all parks are closed once the sun goes down so it would be best for you to just stay home, set your alarm for an hour before sunrise and look for the cache once the park opens.

 

You guys do have a good point. As for the "get a clue" part, I think you should re-think that statment. That may apply to your area, but most parks where I am from (Calgary, Alberta Canada) do not have hours. I am very frequently night caching in our parks, and this was the first time I have seen a sign. I will give you that I probably shouldn't have broaken the bi-law even if I had driven that distance, but that is just what I did.

 

Maybe I will e-mail the cache owner and suggest he add the park hours to his cache.

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But I have to say that it is absolutely false that breaking rules don’t affect other people. Rather, breaking rules does affect other people. It was a hard pill for me to shallow at first and now I can see clearly that it is true.

 

Thank you _Shaddow_ perhaps now you understand where my frustration was coming from even if it doesn't change your opinion of what was said.

 

No sorry, I don't know where your frustration is, or even that you have some. And I've haven't shared my opinion on the subject so not sure what you are saying

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Here's a log that just posted:

 

"When this was first posted we did not see the "no 24/7" attribute. If it was there, we missed it. We also chose to park at a different location than what is listed on the cache page, and with what we could tell from the information we had available, we could get this cache without breaking any of the rules. If we goofed (which we don't think we did), we apologize.

And now for our log entry:

 

We had just finished dinner and were in the middle of a game when this one posted. We looked at the puzzle and realized it was something we could solve so we finished up what we were doing and proceeded to solve the puzzle. We were hesitant at first about going on an FTF run at night and in the rain but we felt we could do it quickly without breaking any "rules" (see above) so we drove to where we believed we could have easy access to the cache and found out we were correct. Took a little bit of searching since there were a couple of possibilities but we were able to find it."

 

No mention in the description about park hours only the attribute 'not 24 hours'

Should the CO delete it?

What if they don't?

Since it's agreed that we are all affected then it follows that we have some responsibility to do something?

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Here's a log that just posted:

 

"When this was first posted we did not see the "no 24/7" attribute. If it was there, we missed it. We also chose to park at a different location than what is listed on the cache page, and with what we could tell from the information we had available, we could get this cache without breaking any of the rules. If we goofed (which we don't think we did), we apologize.

And now for our log entry:

 

We had just finished dinner and were in the middle of a game when this one posted. We looked at the puzzle and realized it was something we could solve so we finished up what we were doing and proceeded to solve the puzzle. We were hesitant at first about going on an FTF run at night and in the rain but we felt we could do it quickly without breaking any "rules" (see above) so we drove to where we believed we could have easy access to the cache and found out we were correct. Took a little bit of searching since there were a couple of possibilities but we were able to find it."

 

No mention in the description about park hours only the attribute 'not 24 hours'

Should the CO delete it?

What if they don't?

Since it's agreed that we are all affected then it follows that we have some responsibility to do something?

You have identified a cache that didn't have the hours posted in the description. It was found at night by two sets of cachers. None of the cachers had to bypass a closed gate or found a sign stating that the park was closed.

 

I'm having trouble finding anything wrong with what the finders did.

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How many of you have NEVER exceeded the posted speed limit or rolled through a stop sign on your way to a cache.

 

ENough said.

 

If people want to go into a park when it is closed to get a FTF, more power to em. I just hope that if it's in my neighborhood, that I've already been in there. :lol:

 

A very poor comparison. If caught for the vehicle infraction and telling the officer, "I was going to a geocache," will have no affect on the cache within the park. Getting caught by a Ranger who has just opened the park or entire park system to geocaching, who discovers geocachers like to break rules / laws, can and does cause the banning of geocaching. Based on many of the attitudes displayed here in this thread, many could care less if the park bans caching because of their actions. ;)

 

Sadly, the geocaching ranks are being filled with the "its all about me, and who cares what anyone else thinks," crowd. ;)

Edited by Kit Fox
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How many of you have NEVER exceeded the posted speed limit or rolled through a stop sign on your way to a cache.

 

ENough said.

 

If people want to go into a park when it is closed to get a FTF, more power to em. I just hope that if it's in my neighborhood, that I've already been in there. :lol:

 

That has to be about the most selfish, self centered post I've even seen. ;)

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How many of you have NEVER exceeded the posted speed limit or rolled through a stop sign on your way to a cache.

 

ENough said.

 

If people want to go into a park when it is closed to get a FTF, more power to em. I just hope that if it's in my neighborhood, that I've already been in there. :lol:

 

That has to be about the most selfish, self centered post I've even seen. ;)

This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen.

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How many of you have NEVER exceeded the posted speed limit or rolled through a stop sign on your way to a cache.

 

ENough said.

 

If people want to go into a park when it is closed to get a FTF, more power to em. I just hope that if it's in my neighborhood, that I've already been in there. :lol:

 

That has to be about the most selfish, self centered post I've even seen. ;)

This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen.

 

Seconded.

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How many of you have NEVER exceeded the posted speed limit or rolled through a stop sign on your way to a cache.

 

ENough said.

 

If people want to go into a park when it is closed to get a FTF, more power to em. I just hope that if it's in my neighborhood, that I've already been in there. :lol:

 

That has to be about the most selfish, self centered post I've even seen. ;)

This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen.

 

To you? I'm sure. ;) To the overwhelming majority of the Geocaching community who feel that entering a park after closed hours is wrong, and portrays our hobby in a bad light, including the reviewer who posted to the thread saying they usually purposely don't publish caches at night because of this reason, no.

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How many of you have NEVER exceeded the posted speed limit or rolled through a stop sign on your way to a cache.

 

ENough said.

 

If people want to go into a park when it is closed to get a FTF, more power to em. I just hope that if it's in my neighborhood, that I've already been in there. :lol:

 

That has to be about the most selfish, self centered post I've even seen. ;)

This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever seen.

 

To you? I'm sure. ;) To the overwhelming majority of the Geocaching community who feel that entering a park after closed hours is wrong, and portrays our hobby in a bad light, including the reviewer who posted to the thread saying they usually purposely don't publish caches at night because of this reason, no.

If you really wanted it to appear that it was me against the world, you should have told me off before someone agreed with me. Of course, it really doesn't matter since most of the mud that you flung at me in your post has nothing to do with my position on this topic. Edited by sbell111
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Sadly, the geocaching ranks are being filled with the "its all about me, and who cares what anyone else thinks," crowd.

Ain't that the truth!

 

They probably wouldn't care much if a park system banned geocaching as they probably have plenty more lame urban caches to find.

 

It's not just newbies or FTFers either. I had a cache that required you to pass up the cache if the gate was closed. Instead they simply mentioned they read the note, the gate was closed, and they went in anyway.

 

Me, I delete logs like that. If they want to argue or go to Groundspeak, let them. They can re-log sans certain text.

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Me, I delete logs like that. If they want to argue or go to Groundspeak, let them. They can re-log sans certain text.

 

Hmmmm CoyoteRed that must be pretty hard to do being that you don't have any hides, I would like to know how you do that. :lol:

 

ScubaSonic

I'm pretty sure that CR hides caches under he and his wife's joint account.

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Me, I delete logs like that. If they want to argue or go to Groundspeak, let them. They can re-log sans certain text.

 

Hmmmm CoyoteRed that must be pretty hard to do being that you don't have any hides, I would like to know how you do that. :lol:

 

ScubaSonic

Never mind...not worth it...

Edited by Allanon
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Me, I delete logs like that. If they want to argue or go to Groundspeak, let them. They can re-log sans certain text.

 

Hmmmm CoyoteRed that must be pretty hard to do being that you don't have any hides, I would like to know how you do that.

 

ScubaSonic

 

i am SO laughing!

 

can't get that right, either.

 

nebraska. monday.

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Well, must admit that my last FTF (I only have 3 or 4) was in a park after park hours (I found it at about 0200h). I didn't park in the parks parking lot because I figured that that may result in some negitive attention. I personly didn't think about the ethics of this much.

 

I guess it is realy not a good idea. But I would have done that same thing as a teenager if I had wanted to take a date on a romatic walk or something. I have always viewed rules that have no impact on others as guidlines.

 

PS Who here speeds (when geocaching or not)? I view these rules in the same catagory (guidelines) I don't speed so much that I will get ticketed, and I only go into parks after hours if I am prety sure that I will not be noticed.

 

PPS I did not know that the park closed at night untill I had driven 25 min (at 0130h) to get there, I wasn't about to turn around and go home.

 

the problem with this line of thinking is that your actions do have an impact on others regardless if you realize it, disagree or just don't care. By going into a park after hours, looking for a geocache, you are representing the entire geocaching community. When the park ranger, camp host, cop or neighbor who owns a home across the street from the park that you have just tresapssed on after hours, catches you they immediately develop an opinion that ALL geocachers must be that way. Even if they don't think that we are all that way most, or even some is bad enough in their minds. People who live near these areas and the people whose job it is to enforce the rules of said parks don't care if you are alone. They figure if your like that then there are probably others and they would be right in that sumation.

 

When you speed to a cache, or any other location you are on your own at that point, but the second you break out your flashlight and start rooting around in shrubs looking for a cache or bushwhacking through forests on the way to a cache because you can't see the trail that would be obvious in the day light, you are casting a bad light on all of us. And if you've driven 20+ miles to the cache only to discover that the cache is in a park that is closed after dusk, get a clue. Almost all parks are closed once the sun goes down so it would be best for you to just stay home, set your alarm for an hour before sunrise and look for the cache once the park opens.

 

You guys do have a good point. As for the "get a clue" part, I think you should re-think that statment. That may apply to your area, but most parks where I am from (Calgary, Alberta Canada) do not have hours. I am very frequently night caching in our parks, and this was the first time I have seen a sign. I will give you that I probably shouldn't have broaken the bi-law even if I had driven that distance, but that is just what I did.

 

Maybe I will e-mail the cache owner and suggest he add the park hours to his cache.

 

Just because you don't know the rules, does not mean there are not rules.

 

From the City of Calgary website (http://www.calgary.ca/DocGallery/BU/cityclerks/20M2003.pdf):

 

BYLAW NUMBER 20M2003

Page 4 of 20

PARK USE

Hours

4. (1) All Parks shall be closed to the public between the hours of 11:00 o'clock in the

evening and 5:00 o'clock the next morning, except:

(a) the Park known as the Inglewood Bird Sanctuary which shall be closed from

one half (1/2) hour after sunset to one half (1/2) hour before sunrise;

(B) the Park known as Shaw Millennium Park which shall be open to the public

twenty-four (24) hours a day; and

© where otherwise designated by the Director pursuant to this Bylaw.

(2) (a) No Person shall enter or remain in a Park when it is closed to the public;

(B) No Person shall enter or remain in an area of a Park which is closed to the

public.

 

Most cities in North America have similar Rules and Bylaws.

 

Not trying to be snide. Just trying to steer you in the right direction.

 

Happy caching!

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I've noticed that a lot of cache posting occur well after dark, at least during this part of the year when daylight hours are shortest. And many of these caches are located within parks with posted hours. So a FTFer has a choice, either break the rules or wait until morning hoping another FTFer that is willing to break the rules doesn't make the find during the night.

 

So the questions are:

  1. Is it ok to enter a closed park (after hours) to get a FTF?
  2. Is it ok to enter a closed park (after hours) to search for a non-FTF?

I think a lot of people that break the rules usually have something similar to this to say: "I had a great time breaking the park rules maybe the geo sheriff will give me a ticket. We all play this game a little differant then the next person but I try not to worry how the other people play." (a direct quote from a log posting today)

 

Then other side says for one that it's not fair to break the rules. That breaking the rules by one or a few gives all geocachers a bad reputation and even puts the game at risk for bans or more rules. If so then the idea that what I do doesn't affect you so leave me alone is just plane false and only self-serving.

 

Please limit your posts to discussion of the topic and avoid flaming

 

Looking forward to see where this goes!

Obey the rules. Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

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Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

You would think it is simple, but so many people don't seem to get it.

 

I have a cache in a park that has No Dogs Allowed signs posted prominently. Over the 7+ years it has been out the cache has had about a half dozen people post logs where they mentioned seeing the sign, but brought their dog along anyway. Thankfully it is a very small percentage of finders, but it could only take one for the park to shut down geocaching.

 

Breaking the rules is bad enough. Boasting about it in a log that the entire world can see is asinine.

 

What is really frightening is the fact that there are people in this thread defending rule breaking.

Edited by briansnat
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Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

Breaking the rules is bad enough. Boasting about it in a log that the entire world can see is asinine.

 

What is really frightening is the fact that there are people in this thread defending rule breaking.

 

I think part of this is because many don't see their actions as overly bad, they see it as a "white lie". Then to further that, they think that, since they didn't get busted for their actions, it is therefore OK and they feel they can brag that they thumbed their noses at the laws and at the rules the CO put on the cache page. Some people like to feel they "got away with something". Truly, some feel they're being sneaky when caching anyway, then add the air of breaking the law...the excitement level rises and their fun is brought up a level.

 

I know of some who not only do this on occassion, they actually plan their trips so they can cache at night. They label themselves as if it's a badge of honor, a statement of their ability to be stealthy. They make up shirts which boast of their actions, they brag about it in these forums.

 

It's not honorable to break the law, even a small law such as trespassing, while doing ANYTHING, but it's worse when you do so while caching. Caching has come a long ways from early on when many places closed their gates to caching out of fear that we bury or damage the lands. A lot of work has been put into establishing trust with governing bodies and building relationships, a lot of work that could easily be undone by a few careless acts such as thumbing your nose at the laws they wish upheld. When cachers are seen as no better than "hoodlums", we'll be just as accepted...

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Caching has come a long ways from early on when many places closed their gates to caching out of fear that we bury or damage the lands. A lot of work has been put into establishing trust with governing bodies and building relationships, a lot of work that could easily be undone by a few careless acts such as thumbing your nose at the laws they wish upheld. When cachers are seen as no better than "hoodlums", we'll be just as accepted...

 

It's hard to argue with that, but I'm sure some people will.

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Here in the UK I have never come across a park that isnt open 24/7, the whole concept is alien to me

What is your trash pick up over there? How would you get rid of larger than normal household trash. Here, not everywhere has trash pick up. There is one dump a ways away.

 

Here you see a lot of land that is restricted complete with heavy gates. Many parks close either at dusk or set hours.

 

Just the trash alone that one sees on dead end roads because some folks have been too lazy to take it up the road to the dump would be enough for me to close off my lands. (If I had any.)

 

Parks closed at night could be other factors, too. Criminal activity may be one. Baby making is another. (Well, not the baby making, but what goes into it.)

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Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

...

 

I have a cache in a park that has No Dogs Allowed signs posted prominently. Over the 7+ years it has been out the cache has had about a half dozen people post logs where they mentioned seeing the sign, but brought their dog along anyway.

 

...

 

Did you delete the logs?

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Me, I delete logs like that. If they want to argue or go to Groundspeak, let them. They can re-log sans certain text.
Hmmmm CoyoteRed that must be pretty hard to do being that you don't have any hides, I would like to know how you do that.

I can see how that may appear to be true if you don't look too closely. We hide under our team account which Sissy won't allow me to post under lest folks think she's as ornery as I am. Additionally, I have hides on other sites.

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Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

...

 

Breaking the rules is bad enough. Boasting about it in a log that the entire world can see is asinine.

 

...

 

 

Could be also that it takes more guts to post and take the ridicule then not say anything at all. As in, 'hey I did this, I'm owning up to it, judge me as you will.'

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Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

...

 

Breaking the rules is bad enough. Boasting about it in a log that the entire world can see is asinine.

 

...

 

 

Could be also that it takes more guts to post and take the ridicule then not say anything at all. As in, 'hey I did this, I'm owning up to it, judge me as you will.'

 

HIGHLY doubtful. Most are boasting as if they will be honored with a plaque or given some special prize for their actions. Some are so proud of their ability to break the law and get away with it, they must shove it in peoples' faces. Sometimes, it's not the case, but mostly, it is!

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Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

...

 

Breaking the rules is bad enough. Boasting about it in a log that the entire world can see is asinine.

 

...

 

 

Could be also that it takes more guts to post and take the ridicule then not say anything at all. As in, 'hey I did this, I'm owning up to it, judge me as you will.'

 

HIGHLY doubtful. Most are boasting as if they will be honored with a plaque or given some special prize for their actions. Some are so proud of their ability to break the law and get away with it, they must shove it in peoples' faces. Sometimes, it's not the case, but mostly, it is!

 

Well for me and most of the people I cache if, that is exactly the reason; full discloser. I think just like the idea that all cachers will bear the burden of a few bad apples, you've made a pretty global statement on people's motives. You might be right. But you might be wrong.

 

If said logs were deleted then it would be a self-fixing problem. Seems to be back on the COs

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Maybe you should post this over in the northwest forums and get some additional local perspective from a few of the folks who have been working hard to keep parks open to caching in our area. :angry:

 

Why is that?

Just a thought to get some feedback with a local perspective.

 

Sorry WRASTRO, not trying to be snippy or such, thanks for the heads up, I'm going to check it out.

 

I think the issue goes beyond the NW to the greater community so this is a good place for the discussion as well

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Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

...

 

Breaking the rules is bad enough. Boasting about it in a log that the entire world can see is asinine.

 

...

 

 

Could be also that it takes more guts to post and take the ridicule then not say anything at all. As in, 'hey I did this, I'm owning up to it, judge me as you will.'

 

HIGHLY doubtful. Most are boasting as if they will be honored with a plaque or given some special prize for their actions. Some are so proud of their ability to break the law and get away with it, they must shove it in peoples' faces. Sometimes, it's not the case, but mostly, it is!

 

Well for me and most of the people I cache if, that is exactly the reason; full discloser. I think just like the idea that all cachers will bear the burden of a few bad apples, you've made a pretty global statement on people's motives. You might be right. But you might be wrong.

 

If said logs were deleted then it would be a self-fixing problem. Seems to be back on the COs

 

You seriously lost me. Are you saying you PURPOSELY break the law and then "come clean" so you can sleep better at night? :angry: Wouldn't it be easier and better to just NOT break the law so you don't have to "come clean"? Wow!!

 

No, my friend. The owner didn't break the law, that's what those who go into closed places do. It's definitely NOT back on the owner...

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Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

...

 

I have a cache in a park that has No Dogs Allowed signs posted prominently. Over the 7+ years it has been out the cache has had about a half dozen people post logs where they mentioned seeing the sign, but brought their dog along anyway.

 

...

 

Did you delete the logs?

 

I don't delete legit found it logs. I asked the loggers to alter them to remove the references to breaking the rules. They all complied, usually accompanied by an apology (though it wasn't me who was owed the apology).

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Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

...

 

Breaking the rules is bad enough. Boasting about it in a log that the entire world can see is asinine.

 

...

 

 

Could be also that it takes more guts to post and take the ridicule then not say anything at all. As in, 'hey I did this, I'm owning up to it, judge me as you will.'

 

Often what is attributed to guts is simply stupidity. Some may say it takes guts to have a friend shoot a beer can off your head with a .22. Others will call doing so incredibly dumb.

 

Jeopardizing the future of geocaching for everybody in your area so you can own up to your own cluelessness simply compounds the stupidity.

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Here in the UK I have never come across a park that isnt open 24/7, the whole concept is alien to me

What is your trash pick up over there? How would you get rid of larger than normal household trash. Here, not everywhere has trash pick up. There is one dump a ways away.

 

Here you see a lot of land that is restricted complete with heavy gates. Many parks close either at dusk or set hours.

 

Just the trash alone that one sees on dead end roads because some folks have been too lazy to take it up the road to the dump would be enough for me to close off my lands. (If I had any.)

 

Parks closed at night could be other factors, too. Criminal activity may be one. Baby making is another. (Well, not the baby making, but what goes into it.)

 

I recall one UK native mentioning to me that "For a free country, you guys have an awful lot of signs that say "No ..."

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Maybe you should post this over in the northwest forums and get some additional local perspective from a few of the folks who have been working hard to keep parks open to caching in our area. :angry:

 

Why is that?

Just a thought to get some feedback with a local perspective.

 

Sorry WRASTRO, not trying to be snippy or such, thanks for the heads up, I'm going to check it out.

 

I think the issue goes beyond the NW to the greater community so this is a good place for the discussion as well

I agree this is a good spot for the general discussion. I suggested the northwest forums as well so that you and others who have been involved in this thread so far might have a chance to hear from some of the Puget Sound area cachers who have been working, literally for years, to keep many of the parks in our region open to geocaching. A small amount of bad publicity can cause a very large amount of bad blood with the land managers.

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You seriously lost me. Are you saying you PURPOSELY break the law and then "come clean" so you can sleep better at night? :angry: Wouldn't it be easier and better to just NOT break the law so you don't have to "come clean"? Wow!!

 

No, my friend. The owner didn't break the law, that's what those who go into closed places do. It's definitely NOT back on the owner...

 

Thats what I said; I knowingly broke the rules and owned up to it.

That's better then breaking the rules and covering it up. Which, of the two, is what you support

 

No one said the owner broke the law.

So back to the point: it is on the owner if they don't delete logs that they knww were gained by breaking the laws. The only reason not to is because the want the found-my-cache stat or they don't have the guts, too afraid someone will get made at them.

 

Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

...

 

I have a cache in a park that has No Dogs Allowed signs posted prominently. Over the 7+ years it has been out the cache has had about a half dozen people post logs where they mentioned seeing the sign, but brought their dog along anyway.

 

...

 

Did you delete the logs?

 

I don't delete legit found it logs. I asked the loggers to alter them to remove the references to breaking the rules. They all complied, usually accompanied by an apology (though it wasn't me who was owed the apology).

 

The hypocrisy…

 

So you don't hold the law breakers accountable. Instead you request that they cover it up. Why?

 

Simple in my opinion. Going in the park after hours is bad form and could result in areas being closed off to our game.

 

...

 

Breaking the rules is bad enough. Boasting about it in a log that the entire world can see is asinine.

 

...

 

 

Could be also that it takes more guts to post and take the ridicule then not say anything at all. As in, 'hey I did this, I'm owning up to it, judge me as you will.'

 

Often what is attributed to guts is simply stupidity. Some may say it takes guts to have a friend shoot a beer can off your head with a .22. Others will call doing so incredibly dumb.

 

Jeopardizing the future of geocaching for everybody in your area so you can own up to your own cluelessness simply compounds the stupidity.

 

Yea, thats true. But not in this case.

 

You're implying that I broke the rules just to own up. Your being silly and I'm starting to not listen to you

Edited by _Shaddow_
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