+frinklabs Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 But those are German Virtuals, which were never intended to visit in Person by the owners. If that was their intent, then they contravene the guidelines for virtuals: "Virtual Caches A virtual cache is an existing, permanent landmark of a unique nature. The seeker must answer a question from the landmark and verify to the cache owner that he was physically at the location." Link to comment
+ElliPirelli Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 But those are German Virtuals, which were never intended to visit in Person by the owners. If that was their intent, then they contravene the guidelines for virtuals: "Virtual Caches A virtual cache is an existing, permanent landmark of a unique nature. The seeker must answer a question from the landmark and verify to the cache owner that he was physically at the location." Yes, they do, but the reviewers published them... Link to comment
+frinklabs Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yes, they do, but the reviewers published them... I guess two wrongs DOES make a right. I always thought it took three lefts for that. Do you happen to have a GC code for one of these German Virtuals? Link to comment
+ElliPirelli Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Yes, they do, but the reviewers published them... I guess two wrongs DOES make a right. I always thought it took three lefts for that. Do you happen to have a GC code for one of these German Virtuals? Well, what would you do? You start caching and you find these caches on the site. They are called Virtuals and the owner ask you a question. You find out the answer and get logging permission from the owner. Would you consult the guidelines first? Also Virtuals weren't allowed to be placed anymore by the time I started caching.... I only found out later, that virtuals were supposed to be visited as well. As for GC codes, it isn't that difficult to check out my profile, now is it? Most of them are by now archived, but mostly the reason was the owner got feed up with hundreds of permission asking emails... Edited December 8, 2009 by ElliPirelli Link to comment
+frinklabs Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I misunderstood. I thought there were so-called "German Virtuals" which specifically stated that it was NOT a requirement to actually visit the site. No? Link to comment
+niraD Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I misunderstood. I thought there were so-called "German Virtuals" which specifically stated that it was NOT a requirement to actually visit the site.There are. Or at least, there were. For example, Four Windows was archived a few months ago. I believe others were archived as well. As the archival note for Four Windows said, " At no time did the guidelines allow for virtual caches of this nature." Link to comment
cezanne Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I misunderstood. I thought there were so-called "German Virtuals" which specifically stated that it was NOT a requirement to actually visit the site. Even worse, there have been some caches around where it was not even possible to visit the location like in this case http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...e6-314229cad379 (now archived) Consider e.g. this cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...24-5ef54137a9b9 Until quite recently, the task was just to solve a puzzle question and compute some numbers. There was no relationship to any location on the earth. Virtual caches of the types mentioned above have been accepted on a routine basis in 2002 and 2003 by a Dutch reviewer and also by German reviewers. The reviewers who accepted those caches felt that they did the right thing and defended their decisions in public discussions. BTW: There are still active caches around that do not comply with the guidelines on virtual caches. I will not list them. It's not my job to identify them, but Groundspeak's. Cezanne Link to comment
+ElliPirelli Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 This one Selsamer Stein, was archived, even though it was possible to go there. I was at the location and took a picture. But the log requirements obviously were not to post one, so lots of Bogus logs have been placed. Link to comment
cezanne Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 This one Selsamer Stein, was archived, even though it was possible to go there. I was at the location and took a picture. But the log requirements obviously were not to post one, so lots of Bogus logs have been placed. The same was true for Langenstein, one of the very popular virtual caches in Germany for quite some years. I even tried to debate with the owner of that cache years ago to require a photograph or some other type of proof of presence, but it was important to him to allow virtual logs from all over the world. Cezanne Link to comment
+Minimike2 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 If you took all the armchair caching out of the percentage Im sure it would not be as high as stated in the original post, I used to have 1000 of my trackables listed online for people to discover AFTER they had seen them at events. I had to remove the list after too many logs from Germany. but aparently someone has printed it out as 2 different cachers logged all 1000 this weekend. Barry Really? That's pretty daft. Have fun deleting 2000 Logs, you'll be pretty busy, I guess.... I bought some coins from Sweetlife and had logs on them from 2 people in Germany. I deleted the logs. I am 99.9999% certain they knew it was wrong to do. On topic - I use Bing, in Internet Explorer, to translate many languages. Yes, it sometimes comes up a little strange but it is understandable. Isn't English the official language of the EU now? At least for business and law? I speak American (I am aware it isn't English ), Spanish, Italian, Latin (old Italian, really), and a smattering of German. Geocaching is slowly getting me more proficient in German. I haven't used my little knowledge of Russian and Arabic for 40 years so they are completely lost now. Link to comment
+wwerner Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Would be nice, if Germans will start write their descriptions in English as well and make this game more accessible for people from other countries. Thanks. OK. I'm not German. Nevertheless I have to say: Would be nice, if US people will start learning at least a second language in order to understand other cultures as well. Thanks. Link to comment
+ElliPirelli Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Would be nice, if Germans will start write their descriptions in English as well and make this game more accessible for people from other countries. Thanks. OK. I'm not German. Nevertheless I have to say: Would be nice, if US people will start learning at least a second language in order to understand other cultures as well. Thanks. The one you quoted isn't American? Link to comment
+jellis Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Not sure with the replies what they are asking for? Their own website? Seattle Geocaching and Groundspeak are the home base and aren't we all connect to this one site? What is wrong with that? If you add a separate one then, as Fizzy mentioned, would be a nightmare and for what? Segregation? Then every country would want one. Chaos! Link to comment
cezanne Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I bought some coins from Sweetlife and had logs on them from 2 people in Germany. I deleted the logs. I am 99.9999% certain they knew it was wrong to do. I would not take any bets on that issue. Quite often cachers just follow the bad example of others. On topic - I use Bing, in Internet Explorer, to translate many languages. Yes, it sometimes comes up a little strange but it is understandable. It is only understandable if the texts you try to translate are rather simply structured, if the context in which the words are used is not an untypical one and if many other conditions are satisfied (e.g. no serious spelling mistakes in the original version). Automatic translations of cache descriptions are typically completely useless. The only exception are traditionals with a short description where the text is not needed to find the cache and just provides one or two simple sentences that might help to decide whether one wants to visit the cache. For complex multi and mystery caches there is no other reasonable alternative than to provide a manually prepared translation. Cezanne Link to comment
cezanne Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Would be nice, if Germans will start write their descriptions in English as well and make this game more accessible for people from other countries. Thanks. OK. I'm not German. Nevertheless I have to say: Would be nice, if US people will start learning at least a second language in order to understand other cultures as well. Thanks. Those cachers who provide English descriptions of their caches (like myself and the poster to whom you replied who comes from Poland) are doing that to support the international character of this activity and not to support any particular nationality. English is not used to make American, British or other caches with English as mother tongue happy. Cachers from Europe with so many different languages within a comparatively small area profit much more from English cache descriptions than cachers from the US (most of them mainly cache in their own country anyway). In how many languages are you able to understand cache descriptions? In my case, I have to admit that I do not even speak the languages of the neighbouring countries closest to my home. Languages like German, French etc are much less widely spread than English and are much harder to learn than some sort of pidgin English which is typically sufficient for understanding each other. English should be understood as best compromise solution for the communication of people with different mother tongues and not as courtesy to Americans, Britons, etc. The main goal is not to produce text that are aesthetically pleasing and are like poetry, but to understand each other. Learning foreign languages is certainly a nice thing to do and it can help a lot to get a deep understanding of another country, but no one has the time to learn all languages of the world. Cezanne Link to comment
+geowas Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 English should be understood as best compromise solution for the communication of people with different mother tongues Today I finished a cache in Vienna which I started yesterday and which I had to continue today because I had to look up an Austrian word first (unfortunately the English translation didn't help in this case). So yes, additional cache descriptions in English (or any other bigger language) I do support! And, Groundspeak, please give us some technical solution to make different translations printable separately. geowas Link to comment
+eagsc7 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi eagsc7... ...how many of the caches in the US are bilingual in English and Spanish? Wikipedia says: "Spanish, spoken by 12% of the population at home, is the second most common language and the most widely taught second language." geowas p.s. hi hzoi! What for? Its considered a SECOND language from your quote. It is also saying that English is the First language. The Steaks Link to comment
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