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So what do you do, when a friend becomes a geo pirate?


nygiants10
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I'm calling BS on this post unless we can get the OP to post the reason for this supposed wierd behavior. I asked, and all I got was the "pirate's" age... no motive.

 

ya I tend to agree.

 

Hey OP,are you sure your not the target here...? and the caches are just a weapon?

Are you and your friend part of a bigger circle of friends?Do they know? If so what do they think?

If not,why not make it known and see if a peer group will sway him,or you may find out indirectly

why he's doing this......more to this story...has to be.

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Failing that, beat him vigorously with rotting lemming carcasses.

 

Beat him vigorously with rotting lemming carcasses...

 

...once you’ve beaten him vigorously with rotting lemming carcass.

 

... I beat them vigorously with a rotting lemming carcass.

 

...I'm going to have to beat you with a rotting lemming carcass.

 

Gotta give props for the potential stink factor, but wouldn't a rotting lemming carcass fall apart too easily to give a good beating?

 

...Maybe put a live squirrel* in an ammo can for the pirate instead...

 

*Rabies optional.

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I'm trying to picture how this might go down.

 

I introduce a lot of people to geocaching. Some become friends.

 

I can't imagine anyone telling me that they are muggling caches because I think anyone would know that I would not react well to that news.

 

But, I have had folks surprise and disappoint me before, so it is possible.

 

First, I wouldn't say 'I have a friend who muggles caches' because the moment I found that out I would know all that I needed to know about that person's character and he would no longer qualify as a friend.

 

Would I 'out' that person? Yes, publicly online and off.

 

Would I do anything about it? No, other than warning area cachers, his wife, his employer and his preacher that he had admitted to being a thief and cache maggot, I would do nothing.

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Failing that, beat him vigorously with rotting lemming carcasses.

 

Beat him vigorously with rotting lemming carcasses...

 

...once you’ve beaten him vigorously with rotting lemming carcass.

 

... I beat them vigorously with a rotting lemming carcass.

 

...I'm going to have to beat you with a rotting lemming carcass.

 

Gotta give props for the potential stink factor, but wouldn't a rotting lemming carcass fall apart too easily to give a good beating?

 

...Maybe put a live squirrel* in an ammo can for the pirate instead...

 

*Rabies optional.

 

Not if you tie 'em up tight in a pillow case with a few door knobs. :laughing:

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I have to agree with those who have stated that there has to be more to the story, and to give advice based on partial information isn't a good idea. Would the OP care to give the full scoop?

Where can I get my hands on some rotting lemming carcasses? :)
I've finally found a Google search term that gives me no hits whatsoever: "rotting lemming carcasses" (not counting this thread, of course). :laughing:

 

I was hoping to point you to a source, but no joy today...

 

--Larry

Try "dead lemmings." Apparently, there's a good supply up in Arctic Europe. Quote accompanies the pic:

lemmings.jpg

A bad vole and lemming year has had an impact on the owls and other predators up in arctic Europe this year, with large numbers of frozen lemming corpses scattered about the tundra...
So, apparently, they aren't rotting, just frozen, but wait for the thaw...

 

Seeing the photo of a Rotting Lemming Carcass (RLC), I'd like to combine the concept of beating someone with one with another idea:

...Maybe put a live squirrel* in an ammo can for the pirate instead...
Put the RLCs in an ammo can and beat someone with the ammo can!

 

Not that I'm recommending beating anyone at this point. Not enough information...

Edited by Too Tall John
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I have to agree with those who have stated that there has to be more to the story, and to give advice based on partial information isn't a good idea. Would the OP care to give the full scoop?

Where can I get my hands on some rotting lemming carcasses? :)
I've finally found a Google search term that gives me no hits whatsoever: "rotting lemming carcasses" (not counting this thread, of course). :laughing:

 

I was hoping to point you to a source, but no joy today...

 

--Larry

Try "dead lemmings." Apparently, there's a good supply up in Arctic Europe. Quote accompanies the pic:

lemmings.jpg

A bad vole and lemming year has had an impact on the owls and other predators up in arctic Europe this year, with large numbers of frozen lemming corpses scattered about the tundra...
So, apparently, they aren't rotting, just frozen, but wait for the thaw...

 

why wait for them to thaw..... you get a better impact with a nice whak, biff, pow when there frozen

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Serious suggestion:

Buy a bottle of rum, share a drink with him, and get over it.

 

Fact 1: What he's doing is not illegal.

Fact 2: Anything you do in retaliation, or enable/encourage others to do is illegal. A box of McDonalds toys abandoned in the woods is not worth going to jail over.

 

If you really feel like you have to "take action," you can try contacting one of the local Groundspeak reviewers. However, don't expect them to do anything if he's not:

- Completely removing/destroying the cache

- Removing/destroying the log

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Yes, I know, I've read the endless threads on here where hoards of sofa-jockey lawyers twist and rationalize statues until they can make it sound vaguely like theft.

 

I understand the feeling - it makes those who care about geocaching upset, but just because someone WANTS something to be illegal doesn't mean that it IS.

 

I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong when someone can *finally* provide ANY court case from ANY state where someone was convicted of theft for taking too many items out of a geocache. I'll even accept a warrant, signed by a judge, for the search/detainment of someone suspected of cache pirating/muggling/maggoting/whatever.

Edited by C@ptainHook
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Serious suggestion:

Buy a bottle of rum, share a drink with him, and get over it.

 

Fact 1: What he's doing is not illegal.

Fact 2: Anything you do in retaliation, or enable/encourage others to do is illegal. A box of McDonalds toys abandoned in the woods is not worth going to jail over.

 

If you really feel like you have to "take action," you can try contacting one of the local Groundspeak reviewers. However, don't expect them to do anything if he's not:

- Completely removing/destroying the cache

- Removing/destroying the log

 

That seems to be spoken like a cache pirate...

 

Stealing and vandalism IS illegal.

I would hope it is inly a matter of time before geocaches are specifically sanctioned as property in laws.

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Stealing and vandalism IS illegal.

I would hope it is inly a matter of time before geocaches are specifically sanctioned as property in laws.

 

DISCLAIMER - I do not believe that geocaches are trash!

 

I bet many LEOs would cite a cacher for littering before taking a report on a stolen geocache as a theft of personal property. I fully admit I could be wrong about that but.... :laughing:

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Stealing and vandalism IS illegal.

I would hope it is inly a matter of time before geocaches are specifically sanctioned as property in laws.

 

DISCLAIMER - I do not believe that geocaches are trash!

 

I bet many LEOs would cite a cacher for littering before taking a report on a stolen geocache as a theft of personal property. I fully admit I could be wrong about that but.... :laughing:

 

There aren't many things I would love more than to be cited for littering when placing a geocache.

I would LOVE to appear in court with my defense witnesses...

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Stealing and vandalism IS illegal.

I would hope it is inly a matter of time before geocaches are specifically sanctioned as property in laws.

 

DISCLAIMER - I do not believe that geocaches are trash!

 

I bet many LEOs would cite a cacher for littering before taking a report on a stolen geocache as a theft of personal property. I fully admit I could be wrong about that but.... :laughing:

 

There aren't many things I would love more than to be cited for littering when placing a geocache.

I would LOVE to appear in court with my defense witnesses...

 

Hmm...knowing several court judges personally, I would pay good money for a ticket to that hearing. :)

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brings up this point.......

 

where there TB or Geocoins in any of the cache's

 

if so they are items paid for and owned by another person, if they wre taken without permission it is THEFT.

 

i recently had dealings with a subject thru work that was arested because he had eaten some food off someone plate in a resturant while he was in the loo.

 

The item had been paid for and owned by the person in the loo, taken by the subject without permission and tommorow he is facing court for theft!!

 

so wheather its a cache in the woods if there are items in there owned and paid for taken by the cache maggot he is liable for theft

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if so they are items paid for and owned by another person, if they wre taken without permission it is THEFT.

 

I leave them out there to be picked up so permission is implied. If they want to keep it, hey whatever, I'll just release another.

 

Exactly. It isn't theft when a cacher releases them into the wild. If anything, it is a gift that is (hopefully) shared with the geocaching community.

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you have given the geocacher permission to move it to another geocache, not to take everything in the cache to never be returned!!

 

Yes that is true. But think of it this way...if you give money to a charity and find out it has been embezzled by an employee of that charity do you think you personally will be able to file a police report for the theft of your donation?

 

Once you have freely given it away by releasing it into a cache , it is no longer in your control and you are at the mercy of other cachers to move it for you.

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you have given the geocacher permission to move it to another geocache, not to take everything in the cache to never be returned!!

 

Yes that is true. But think of it this way...if you give money to a charity and find out it has been embezzled by an employee of that charity do you think you personally will be able to file a police report for the theft of your donation?

 

Once you have freely given it away by releasing it into a cache , it is no longer in your control and you are at the mercy of other cachers to move it for you.

 

Besides it's not theft if they planned on moving it along later. A couple years later. :laughing:

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*long story based around a Straw Man argument*

 

The key difference here is that your "work associate's" restaurant pal left his food alone for a couple of minutes tops, and went probably less than 20 yards to the restroom. If he sent his meal to Alaska via proxy of hundreds of people and expected it back 4 years later, THEN it would be relevant to Geocaching.

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The way I look at it.....

 

I bet many LEOs would cite a cacher for littering before taking a report on a stolen geocache as a theft of personal property.

 

You have to have permission from the property owner to place a cache. Therefore its not littering. Since its not littering, it's still owned by someone and not "abandonded". With this reasoning, your "friend" is stealing and should be reported for it.....

 

My $.02

Edited by desulli
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cache maggoting is actually theft. it is a low degree of theft that police will not bother with unless YOU supply them with a large quantity of hard evidence.

 

as for cachers, a few caches going missing or being emptied, while annoying, isn't a crisis. it's probably not worth your time collecting the evidence even if it is possible.

 

where the maggoting takes on a large scale, the police STILL won't make it anything approaching a priority, but they'll be more willing to act on large amounts of hard evidence that you provide.

 

the only case i've heard of that approaches that magnitude is an area i know of where the maggot averaged one stolen cache per day.

 

that has a significant effect on the surrounding area and ticks off a LOT of people.

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Report his account to Groundspeak so that they can look into banning it if warranted. After that just ignore him. People usually behave badly for attention that they don't deserve, plus I see no reason to waste time, emotions, or energy on such a person. They will eventually get bored and go away. They almost always do. And to the extent you are concerned that you once liked this person, don't worry about it. Sometimes you just have to write some people off as not worth the effort. If they change their ways later and find you again, then great. If not, you are better off without them around.

 

Im in agreement to this suggestion. It seems quite logical. Part of me says this is the way to do this. Report him to GC, yeah if he is that kind of a really hateful person, he will find a way around it.

 

Now, those of you that sort of know me know that Im not a violent person.....whatever. Get a picture of him and post it up where ever you can and label it "thief"....I wouldnt even acknowledged the thief as being a pirate, that kind of makes his whole stealing stuff romantical. You might even make a trading card of him to leave in caches, although his ego might eat that up.

 

If this doesnt work, then I suggest the local GCrs in the area come up with the worlds largest cache container and hide it in the woods., Im not a fan of hamster caches, sorry. but the contents would be your friend the "squirrel".

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IF the OP has proof that his friend is stealing caches...he could always steal his "friend's" wife! Or put cat poop on the engine of his car...heat increases the aroma, I am told.............................

I am wondering if their is some jerking of a chain here - I hope the guy isn't really a cache maggot.....

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Definition of a pathological liar

 

Identifying a pathological liar may take time for any individual.

Pathological liars often exaggerate issues. In this case, a person may not be lying deliberately. He/she would think and believe in their lies completely. A pathological liar would thus concoct lies in public to make people believe new stories They begin to live in these stories. They often lie for many reasons, one of these being to have their own way in various activities. In this case, the person may seem rather self-centered with very little respect towards her people’s feelings. The person may speak lies to even enhance their image in public.

 

oops think i may have posted in the wrong thread......my bad

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is there a reason we're pasting the OP?

 

his story doesn't seem implausible to me.

 

while i haven't seen similar behaviors in adults, i used to see things like that in adolescents all the time. since i understand there are a number of nominal adults who behave as if they're still thirteen years old, it seems likely that some people will develop behaviors like this.

 

i've had a few friends who later turn out to be idiots; they're no longer friends, but they were once. some people will decide to take a dump in your cornflakes just because they can, even when they previously seemed to enjoy breakfasting with you.

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Assuming that the OP is legit and sincere, I would suggest you invite your friend to a couple of local events.

 

I don't suggest outing him as a cache maggot. Rather, I would hope that once he has a chance to meet other cachers it may change his mind about what he is doing.

 

If this doesn't work, then you've done about all you can do to deter him.

 

Sounds like he's one of those who just doesn't get why we do this. You know, some people think this is a really stupid hobby. The best way to sway him is to get him to meet and like the cachers he's affecting. Then even if he still thinks it's stupid, at least he may stop just because he'll realize it affects other people.

 

On the other hand, he could just be a jerk by nature and I would question why you ever introduced him to geocaching in the first place.

 

Good suggestion. Often when someone can put a face to their victims it helps there realize that there is a victim, not just some user name in a forum.

 

I agree with this suggestion. However it is possible he was lying because he believes they might take the game too seriously. Some time ago I was driving back from a cache run with 2 other cachers. The one cacher who was in the back seat sleeping started mumbling something and suddenly woke up and exclaimed that if our local reviewer didn't tell him who they were, he was going to steal a cache everyday. I looked at the other cacher and proclaimed that he was an idiot. He went back to sleep, and I initially thought that he was just playing around. But

it bothered me because I really could not find any exclamation on why he would blurt out something so bizzare. Later, a bunch of caches that were stolen nearby suddenly turned up under a pine tree in another state. When I checked the cache pages, I noticed that they were all taken from the area that the cacher worked, and all were taken just before he signed up with his current name.

I cant prove anything, but if he did take them, the thefts had stopped just before he signed up and met other cachers around here. But then there was the lingering feeling that he might have become too obsessed and started again.. I had an issue with him about something else unrelated and stopped caching with him. Later I met him at an event and he wanted to shake my hand, and I raised it up and smoothed out my hair. Eventually I did shake hands, but he was a bit miffed, and the very next day an account with only a few finds reported that a cache he had given me was destroyed.. Sometimes the best thing to do is to just stay away from the person. :laughing:

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EDIT: Shiver me timbers.

 

What this thread needs is a few more suggestions that involve illegal acts of physical violence and thinly veiled allusions to illegal acts of violence (excepting any acts involving lemming corpses.) The internet tough-guy routine is so 1998. Venting is one thing, but come on.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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while i haven't seen similar behaviors in adults, i used to see things like that in adolescents all the time. since i understand there are a number of nominal adults who behave as if they're still thirteen years old, it seems likely that some people will develop behaviors like this.

 

Referee kid's soccer games.

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EDIT: Shiver me timbers.

 

What this thread needs is a few more suggestions that involve illegal acts of physical violence and thinly veiled allusions to illegal acts of violence (excepting any acts involving lemming corpses.)

Arrr...

 

What do you do with a geo-pirate? What do you do with a geo-pirate?

What do you do with a geo-pirate early in the morning?

 

Shave his belly with a rusty razor! Shave his belly with a rusty razor!

Shave his belly with a rusty razor early in the morning!

 

Heave him by the leg in a running bowline! Heave him by the leg in a running bowline!

Heave him by the leg in a running bowline early in the morning!

 

Keel haul him until he's sober! Keel haul him until he's sober!

Keel haul him until he's sober early in the morning!

 

Tie him to the topmast while she's yardarm under! Tie him to the topmast while she's yardarm under!

Tie him to the topmast while she's yardarm under early in the morning!

 

That's what we do with a geo-pirate! That's what we do with a geo-pirate!

That's what we do with a geo-pirate early in the morning!

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while i haven't seen similar behaviors in adults, i used to see things like that in adolescents all the time. since i understand there are a number of nominal adults who behave as if they're still thirteen years old, it seems likely that some people will develop behaviors like this.

Unfortunately I have, and I never fail to be stunned by it. I tell folks about geocaching all the time, and have been amazed at how many times their first thought about the game is how to mess it up! "Hey, I could go take the whole thing... wouldn't it be funny all those people looking for something that's not there?" Seriously. :signalviolin:

 

I've not had it happen often, thank God, but it has happened more times than I would have believed.

 

It takes all that I can do not to respond with "That makes you a real idiot" but all you can do is explain why that's a really bad idea, depart that person's company and hope that they forget about the whole conversation. I mean really, what kind of person hears about something new and thinks immediately of how to screw it up?

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cache maggoting is actually theft.

That's your unqualified opinion. It isn't based on case law, or any decision ever made by a judge qualified to interpret law.

 

 

it's actually not my opinion at all, and unless you are state and local police in the jurisdiction i'm thinking of, your opinion is not just unqualified but wrong.

 

there doesn't need to be a separate class of case law for geocaches as opposed to any other property theft.

 

common sense: if you steal something, it's theft. it may not be a degree of theft that law enforcement wishes to follow up on, but it's still theft.

 

liken it to shoplifting, if you will. if you steal something that's only worth a quarter, it's still shoplifting. or speeding; if i'm doing 60 in a 55, it's unlikely that an officer will care. i'm still speeding, though.

 

it's a concept any ten year old can grasp.

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Unfortunately I have, and I never fail to be stunned by it. I tell folks about geocaching all the time, and have been amazed at how many times their first thought about the game is how to mess it up! "Hey, I could go take the whole thing... wouldn't it be funny all those people looking for something that's not there?" Seriously. :signalviolin:

 

I've not had it happen often, thank God, but it has happened more times than I would have believed.

 

It takes all that I can do not to respond with "That makes you a real idiot" but all you can do is explain why that's a really bad idea, depart that person's company and hope that they forget about the whole conversation. I mean really, what kind of person hears about something new and thinks immediately of how to screw it up?

 

Yeah, it's almost like those people who take a good forum thread and add a "My neighbor has a brown cat" or a "What's a FTF?" or something similar.

 

Some people just don't see beyond their nose and they will never understand that their actions affect others and those others don't deserve the "treatment". Some will never get it, others will.

 

Until the time the cache maggots "get it", it's fun to consider what to do to them if caught, even if the thought is from the mind of an internet tough guy. Of course some internet tough guys would follow through (and some have).

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Until the time the cache maggots "get it", it's fun to consider what to do to them if caught, even if the thought is from the mind of an internet tough guy. Of course some internet tough guys would follow through (and some have).

 

So are you saying that you've personally beaten cache maggots or that you know people who have beaten cache maggots? I left my Vague Insinuation Translator in my other smock.

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cache maggoting is actually theft.

That's your unqualified opinion. It isn't based on case law, or any decision ever made by a judge qualified to interpret law.

The time for case law is long past. Every state in the Union has come up with detailed definitions regarding what is, and what is not, theft. As these laws are written today, all of them revolve around the concept of intent. For instance, Florida law says the following:

 

812.014 Theft.--

 

( 1 ) A person commits theft if he or she knowingly obtains or uses, or endeavors to obtain or to use, the property of another with intent to, either temporarily or permanently:

 

( a ) Deprive the other person of a right to the property or a benefit from the property.

 

( b ) Appropriate the property to his or her own use or to the use of any person not entitled to the use of the property.

 

Since folks have been prosecuted in the past for taking orienteering markers, (I.e: Game pieces left in the woods for use by others), I don't think I'd have any trouble prosecuting a maggot for theft of a cache, if I could prove who actually committed the crime. Saying that arresting a cache maggot would be next to impossible because it would be so hard to prove is quite likely an accurate statement. Saying that arresting a cache maggot would be impossible because it's not a real crime is silly.

 

Post script: No, I'm not a Judge, but as I've been a cop since '82, I think I have a pretty good handle on what a theft is. :signalviolin:

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Until the time the cache maggots "get it", it's fun to consider what to do to them if caught, even if the thought is from the mind of an internet tough guy. Of course some internet tough guys would follow through (and some have).

 

So are you saying that you've personally beaten cache maggots or that you know people who have beaten cache maggots? I left my Vague Insinuation Translator in my other smock.

 

A cache maggot, no but I do know, personally, of a situation where someone tracked down another from the internet and confronted him. It was not a pretty situation.

 

Some internet tough guys will follow through, based on personal observations. Just saying.

 

There are extremist people everywhere. If a cache maggot thinks he's safe, he should think again. Sure, the numbers are in his favor but the reality is that there are likely a few cachers out there who would commit illegal acts in retribution, and not think twice about doing so.

 

Just sayin.

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there doesn't need to be a separate class of case law for geocaches as opposed to any other property theft.

 

That's the crux of the argument... it's not your property anymore.

 

Even a ten year old can understand that. :signalviolin:

 

Post script: No, I'm not a Judge, but as I've been a cop since '82, I think I have a pretty good handle on what a theft is.

Though I completely disagree with you, I can step aside from this pointless argument long enough to sincerely thank you for serving our great state for so long.

 

I firmly believe that a 27-year veteran of the force commands a level of respect second to few. Stay safe, and thanks for devoting your life to a largely thankless job that many of us could not do.

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That's the crux of the argument... it's not your property anymore.

Here's the key point we disagree on. If I hide an ammo can in the woods for other cachers to find, the cache still belongs to me. The contents are fairly debatable, since I would leave them in the cache with the intent that other cachers take them, hopefully leaving equal or better swag in return. I think I could make a compelling argument in court for my belief, based on a couple key factors:

 

1 ) Groundspeak guidelines will see the cache as being my responsibility, unless I adopt it out. Any concerns with the cache would be directed toward me. If I responded to a NM note with words to the effect of, "Sorry. The cache is not mine any more. It belongs to the community", it would likely get archived faster than Rosie O'Donnell could gnaw through a carton of Ben & Jerry's.

 

2 ) The property manager who gave permission for the cache would consider any issues which occur from the placement to be my responsibilities, because the cache was mine.

 

As a caveat, I should mention that I had a discussion about hypothetical cache thefts with our State Attorney, and their impression, after being briefed about the game, was that if a cacher, familiar with the game, took the cache with the intent of depriving the owner of the cache, that would unquestionably meet the elements of theft. However, if a muggle took it, it would not qualify as theft. He also opined that getting a conviction would be difficult, even if I were able to prove who did it, a competent defense attorney would probably be able to obfuscate the facts sufficiently to give a jury doubt.

 

So, (assuming enough evidence exists to develop probable cause), an arrest could be made, but a conviction would be unlikely.

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Here's the key point we disagree on. If I hide an ammo can in the woods for other cachers to find, the cache still belongs to me. The contents are fairly debatable, since I would leave them in the cache with the intent that other cachers take them, hopefully leaving equal or better swag in return. I think I could make a compelling argument in court for my belief, based on a couple key factors:

 

1 ) Groundspeak guidelines will see the cache as being my responsibility, unless I adopt it out. Any concerns with the cache would be directed toward me. If I responded to a NM note with words to the effect of, "Sorry. The cache is not mine any more. It belongs to the community", it would likely get archived faster than Rosie O'Donnell could gnaw through a carton of Ben & Jerry's.

 

2 ) The property manager who gave permission for the cache would consider any issues which occur from the placement to be my responsibilities, because the cache was mine.

 

As a caveat, I should mention that I had a discussion about hypothetical cache thefts with our State Attorney, and their impression, after being briefed about the game, was that if a cacher, familiar with the game, took the cache with the intent of depriving the owner of the cache, that would unquestionably meet the elements of theft. However, if a muggle took it, it would not qualify as theft. He also opined that getting a conviction would be difficult, even if I were able to prove who did it, a competent defense attorney would probably be able to obfuscate the facts sufficiently to give a jury doubt.

 

So, (assuming enough evidence exists to develop probable cause), an arrest could be made, but a conviction would be unlikely.

 

But at least it would give the mobs a person to look at.

 

:signalviolin:

 

Edited to add that the cost of the attorney might just be deterrent enough to keep the cache maggot, that has to go through trial, from doing it again.

Edited by bittsen
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