Sanyo Eneloop AA NiMH Pre-Charged Batteies

[+OldA'sFan]

Amazon has a four pack of these (with a charger) for $17.32. I'm considering trying them out in my Oregon 300. Has anyone used these batteries, and if so what do think of them.

 

OldA'sFan

[+StarBrand]

Those are really wonderful batteries but I recommend a better quality charger for them. I use a Lacrosse BC-9009.

[+Chuy!]

I have Eneloops 2000mah, Energizer 2500 mah, and Duracell 2300mah AA's. Currently, all the Eneloops AA are 2k mah. If you are draining batteries within a week or two, the Eneloops will die first 'cause they put out less juice. And they make a poor choice for high-drain devices such as digital cameras. The 2k mah are just not enough. Where Eneloops shine is when you use devices sporadically. For me they work the best in flashlights, and horribly in my digital cameras. Maha Imedions are pre-charged batteries and are rated 2100 mah; so, they should fare better than the Eneloops, but I have not used them. They are available from Amazon and Thomas Distributing.

 

BTW, I also have the LaCrosse BC-9009 charger and like it a lot. However, I wish it came with 8 bays! It's one of the few chargers you'll find that switches to a trickle charge if you leave the batteries in the unit. I also like that it determines the battery's capacity (mah); that helps you pair up similar capacity batteries, and discard dying batteries.

[+RRLover]

I have Eneloops 2000mah, Energizer 2500 mah, and Duracell 2300mah AA's. Currently, all the Eneloops AA are 2k mah. If you are draining batteries within a week or two, the Eneloops will die first 'cause they put out less juice. And they make a poor choice for high-drain devices such as digital cameras. The 2k mah are just not enough. Where Eneloops shine is when you use devices sporadically. For me they work the best in flashlights, and horribly in my digital cameras. Maha Imedions are pre-charged batteries and are rated 2100 mah; so, they should fare better than the Eneloops, but I have not used them. They are available from Amazon and Thomas Distributing.

 

BTW, I also have the LaCrosse BC-9009 charger and like it a lot. However, I wish it came with 8 bays! It's one of the few chargers you'll find that switches to a trickle charge if you leave the batteries in the unit. I also like that it determines the battery's capacity (mah); that helps you pair up similar capacity batteries, and discard dying batteries.

Maha has such a charger, avail. from Thomas. Maha chargers are at the very least 'on par' w/LaCrosse.

 

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/shop/mah...199rcmu07fvaei7

 

Norm

Edited November 18, 2009 by RRLover

[+bluedahlia.co.nz]

For general use, I have the Maha charger and the Imedion batteries. They perform excellent.

[+rstickle]

I've been using Eneloop batteries for probably over a year in my GPSs and a small digital camera and think they are great. I love the way they retain their charge when they are not in use!

[NordicMan]

Yep Enelooops are excellent batteries to use in a GPSr! I also use them in my home audio/video remote controls and my PC wireless keyboard & mouse

 

Right now I am using the charger that came with the batteries and it works fine. I'm not sure what I'm missing out on by not replacing it with a more expensive charger (?)

[+fegan]

The Eneloop batteries are good if your GPS sits on the shelf a lot.

 

If you use your GPS frequently, at least weekly, like I do, then I recommend:

 

A Lacross BC-900 charger and Maha Powerex 2700mAh NiMH.

[+DonB]

I have Eneloops 2000mah, Energizer 2500 mah, and Duracell 2300mah AA's. Currently, all the Eneloops AA are 2k mah. If you are draining batteries within a week or two, the Eneloops will die first 'cause they put out less juice. And they make a poor choice for high-drain devices such as digital cameras. The 2k mah are just not enough. Where Eneloops shine is when you use devices sporadically. For me they work the best in flashlights, and horribly in my digital cameras. Maha Imedions are pre-charged batteries and are rated 2100 mah; so, they should fare better than the Eneloops, but I have not used them. They are available from Amazon and Thomas Distributing.

 

BTW, I also have the LaCrosse BC-9009 charger and like it a lot. However, I wish it came with 8 bays! It's one of the few chargers you'll find that switches to a trickle charge if you leave the batteries in the unit. I also like that it determines the battery's capacity (mah); that helps you pair up similar capacity batteries, and discard dying batteries.

Maha has such a charger, avail. from Thomas. Maha chargers are at the very least 'on par' w/LaCrosse.

 

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/shop/mah...199rcmu07fvaei7

 

Norm

They also have a MAHA MH-C801D which is the same charger but with a faster charge rate and about a 12 dollar higher price. As far as the Eneloops I use them in flashlights, my GPS, and digital cameras with no complaints. I think they last longer in a device then a standard NiMH with higher mah ratings. I also have had good luck with Kodak hybrids. The worst batteries I have used are the 2500 mah Energizers, real high failure rate.

[+Curioddity]

Right now I am using the charger that came with the batteries and it works fine. I'm not sure what I'm missing out on by not replacing it with a more expensive charger (?)

NiMH wear out. They're only capable of a finite number of charge-discharge cycles before the cell chemistry begins to degrade and they begin to exhibit a significant reduction in their ability to hold a charge. Needless to say, there are ways to accelerate the process and ways to postpone it and rapid charging is one of the best ways to accelerate the process. Rapid charging may be convenient, but the price you pay for that convenience is fewer charge-discharge cycles before the cells wear out.

 

And that brings us to the main "buzz kill" observation I'd like to point out: The Eneloop charger is a rapid charger. And while I'm killing buzzes, here's another observation: The Maha and La Crosse chargers are just as bad if you use them in the rapid charge mode.

 

But the Maha and La Crosse chargers offer a distinct advantage over the Eneloop charger: They also have a slow (or soft) charge mode and if you make a habit of using that mode you can significantly increase the service life of your NiMH cells. The Maha and La Crosse chargers also let you recondition cells, but that ability is of little real use for hybrid NiMH cells like the Eneloop as long as you treat your cells right in the first place.

 

And as for my opinion of Eneloop cells? I love them! I've been a rabid R/C model aviator for many years and I've lost several planes due to battery failure. I should add that I have a huge investment in sophisticated programmable multi-chemistry charger/cyclers and computerized battery analyzers, but cells still failed on me and an entire pack of cells is only as good as the weakest one. But I haven't had any problems since I started using Eneloops. I have them in all my transmitters and most of my gliders and every cell tests like new despite the fact that several have been in use since Sanyo started selling them.

 

And do you know who started using them first? Model aviators! We started using them when they were only available via the Internet from Japan which was over a year before they started distributing them in the USA. Model aviators stay on the bleeding edge of new battery technology and in many respects, they're the driving force.

 

Eneloops in action in a "mission critical" role: http://www.vimeo.com/1760099

 

Pete

[gitarmac]

I use both eneloops and some other brands. I have both the maha and lacrosse chargers. It's worth it to me because I use a lot of batteries, I use them in my headlamps and cameras in addition to my gps's.

 

I started getting higher cap batteries because I also concluded my stuff might work better with those. Most of mine are sanyo 2700's.

 

Truth be told they both seem to work the same so far, the only differance is if my spare batteries are going to be the 2700,s, I have to fill both my chargers up to top them off. I usually use the eneloops as spares. I will probably purchase more eneloops in the near future.

[+splashy]

For Colorado/Oregon you need at least 2500Mah, not less.

[+Maingray]

For Colorado/Oregon you need at least 2500Mah, not less.

 

The Eneloop 2000mah are fine in my Oregon 300. Very good life.

[+Curioddity]

For Colorado/Oregon you need at least 2500Mah, not less.

That's plain old nonsense. My 2000mAh Eneloops will run my Oregon 400t for at least 9 hours of continuous use and that's with the compass turned on.

 

Pete

[+OldA'sFan]

Amazon has a four pack of these (with a charger) for $17.32. I'm considering trying them out in my Oregon 300. Has anyone used these batteries, and if so what do think of them.

 

OldA'sFan

 

Thanks to everyone that replied. That's what makes this forum great. I've decided to purchase the Eneloops with the charger. I'll let you know how they work for me. Again, thanks to all.

 

OldA'sFan

[Orion84]

Right now I am using the charger that came with the batteries and it works fine. I'm not sure what I'm missing out on by not replacing it with a more expensive charger (?)

NiMH wear out. They're only capable of a finite number of charge-discharge cycles before the cell chemistry begins to degrade and they begin to exhibit a significant reduction in their ability to hold a charge. Needless to say, there are ways to accelerate the process and ways to postpone it and rapid charging is one of the best ways to accelerate the process. Rapid charging may be convenient, but the price you pay for that convenience is fewer charge-discharge cycles before the cells wear out.

 

And that brings us to the main "buzz kill" observation I'd like to point out: The Eneloop charger is a rapid charger. And while I'm killing buzzes, here's another observation: The Maha and La Crosse chargers are just as bad if you use them in the rapid charge mode.

 

But the Maha and La Crosse chargers offer a distinct advantage over the Eneloop charger: They also have a slow (or soft) charge mode and if you make a habit of using that mode you can significantly increase the service life of your NiMH cells. The Maha and La Crosse chargers also let you recondition cells, but that ability is of little real use for hybrid NiMH cells like the Eneloop as long as you treat your cells right in the first place.

 

And as for my opinion of Eneloop cells? I love them! I've been a rabid R/C model aviator for many years and I've lost several planes due to battery failure. I should add that I have a huge investment in sophisticated programmable multi-chemistry charger/cyclers and computerized battery analyzers, but cells still failed on me and an entire pack of cells is only as good as the weakest one. But I haven't had any problems since I started using Eneloops. I have them in all my transmitters and most of my gliders and every cell tests like new despite the fact that several have been in use since Sanyo started selling them.

 

And do you know who started using them first? Model aviators! We started using them when they were only available via the Internet from Japan which was over a year before they started distributing them in the USA. Model aviators stay on the bleeding edge of new battery technology and in many respects, they're the driving force.

 

Eneloops in action in a "mission critical" role: http://www.vimeo.com/1760099

 

Pete

Your comment about rapid charging is not entirely valid. A good charger will stop charging (or actually, switch to trickle charging) when it detects a drop in the cell voltage. This drop can only be noticed while charging at a sufficient "speed". For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-metal_...charging_method

[NordicMan]

Hey were you guys aware Sanyo has come out with an updated Eneloop??

 

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/595121.html

 

SANYO Electric Co., Ltd. (SANYO) proudly announces the release of new, upgraded AA- and AAA-size "eneloop" rechargeable batteries five years from the initial product launch, with the concept of "eneloop" still based on promoting "a lifestyle that values reusing and recycling". The new "eneloop" is able to be recharged approximately 1,500 times2, a new milestone for the rechargeable battery industry, making eneloop the industry No. 1 1.

 

Since the batteries were first announced on November 14, 2005, "eneloop" has become well-known around the world, as it has revolutionized the consumer-use rechargeable battery segment with its unique features: "Rechargeable approximately 1,000 times2", "Coming pre-charged so it's usable immediately after purchase", and its unique design departing from the look of traditional batteries.

 

The latest breakthrough allowing "eneloop" to be recharged up to 1,500 times has been realized by applying newly-developed recharging technologies. In addition, to truly embody the concept of a "Clean Energy Loop", the batteries are pre-charged at the factory using clean energy generated from renewable solar power as a part of the Green Power Certification System. As the new "eneloop" batteries hit the market, updated "eneloop" branded chargers and charger sets will also be entering the market.

[+Curioddity]

Your comment about rapid charging is not entirely valid. A good charger will stop charging (or actually, switch to trickle charging) when it detects a drop in the cell voltage. This drop can only be noticed while charging at a sufficient "speed". For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-metal_...charging_method

Couple of points:

 

The very first Eneloops came with a 2-cell charger which was a deltaV (peak detect) 1hr charger. That combo (2 cells and the charger) was the only way we could buy them and I still have a half-dozen of the chargers in the junk box. I should add that there wasn't a single word of English on the cells, charger, or packaging. It was all in Japanese. After awhile we were able to buy the cells in 4 and 8 packs without the charger and eventually we could buy them in bulk, and I haven't purchased Eneloops with a charger since then.

 

So I was unaware that Eneloops no longer ship with a 1-hour charger, but I wasn't surprised. Those early Eneloops were only getting 200-300 charge-discharge cycles before they would only hold about 1/2 of their original capacity if you used the Eneloop fast-charger. But those of us who were using our programmable chargers to charge them at a 0.5C (2-hour) rate or less were getting far more life out them than that.

 

Now I see that the new MDR02 Eneloop 2-cell "Quick Charger" (which is a deltaV charger) takes ~230 minutes to charge depleated AA cells (which tells me that it's charging at ~0.25C) The standard MQN04 4-cell charger is a timed constant current charger which charges AA cells at 250mA (0.125C) and both are a far cry from the original 1C (2000mA) charger Eneloop originally offered.

 

And this from the official Sanyo/Eneloop website FAQ: "Can I use a "Quick Charger" to charge an eneloop battery? Though it is possible to charge an eneloop battery in a "Quick Charger", it is not recommended. We recommend charging eneloop batteries in a NiMh charger that is 2 hours or more. Charging eneloop batteries in a "Quick Charger" can reduce the overall life of the battery."

 

Coincidentally, I've always charged the AA Eneloop packs in my R/C transmitters and planes at a 0.25C (500mA) rate and set the deltaV to 4mV/cell. I've occasionally charged them at 0.5C but only when it was unavoidable (read: bad planning). As I mentioned in my earlier post, I use programmable multi-chemistry chargers which cost hundreds of dollars and they are quite capable of detecting deltaV peak at as little as 0.015C, but even inexpensive deltaV chargers will reliably detect a peak at a 0.25C charge rate.

 

Now as for the loose cells I use in my consumer electronics, I use the Maha MH-C800S, but I always use it in the Soft mode. I respect my batteries too much to charge them any faster.

 

Pete

[Ken in Regina]

Hey Pete,

 

Thanks for that history and tutorial. Turns out I've been using my MAHA 9000 pretty much bassackwards for the way I use my batteries. I have a few that I wasn't happy with the recharge results. Now, instead of tossing them out I'll put them through a nice gentle "Break In" session (0.1C "shaping" exercise) and see what the charger says about them after that.

 

I will also set my charge rate much much lower than I have been. I've been using the charger almost like a quick charger but there's no way I need to quick charge them. I've got lots of batteries and my biggest problem is that they sit for sometimes fairly long periods between uses. That's why I've been getting a few Eneloops as my older batteries get retired.

 

I guess my strategy should be fewer batteries and just keep cycling them through the "Break In" cycle when they aren't being used, instead of just leaving them sit.

 

Any additional thoughts on battery management when they are not being used?

 

...ken...

Edited November 19, 2009 by Ken in Regina

[+Chrysalides]

Hey were you guys aware Sanyo has come out with an updated Eneloop??

Interesting, didn't know that, thanks. I see that it is now rated at 1900 mAH...

[+smstext]

i bought some duracell ones (think they are 2500mh) once they have been through a few discharge/recharges they seem to perform better than duracell plus throwaway that i was using before i bought rechargables.

[gitarmac]

here are some eneloop 2000's at thompsons. I may order these. I do not see the updated ones there, at least they don't say what that article said.

[+smstext]

to follow on from my previous post (2 up) the batteries are in fact 2650mh and not 2500 (which my old energizer ones were). Tesco's (in the uk) have the duracell 2650mh at the moment for £5.98 which are £1 more than disposable batteries by them

Edited November 21, 2009 by smstext

[+OldA'sFan]

Amazon has a four pack of these (with a charger) for $17.32. I'm considering trying them out in my Oregon 300. Has anyone used these batteries, and if so what do think of them.

 

OldA'sFan

 

Thanks for all of the input. After reading all of the comments I decided to try the La Crosse Technology BC-9009 AlphaPower Battery Charger with 4 AA and 4 AAA rechargeable batteries. The AA batteries are La Crosse (wonder who they are made by), and the AA are rated 2600 mah. Not sure what the rating on the AAA is. Bought it from Amazon for $39.99 and got free shipping. Again, thanks for all of your comments.

 

OldA'sFan

[Ken in Regina]

You have purchased a good charger. You will likely find that a good charger will make more difference in your satisfaction with rechargables than your battery selection. Learn how to use its features and you will be able to get a surprising amount of life out of even your old batteries.

 

For instance, my MAHA (Powerex) 9000 has a "Breakin" feature on it. I never thought to use it on my older batteries (who nees to "break in" an older battery??) until just last week as a result of something someone said in one of these two threads on rechargable batteries here. I took a closer look at the documentation and discovered it's also good for refreshing older batteries.

 

I have now run eight of my older Sanyos through that cycle. They were sitting in a tin waiting for recycling. Seven of them are back in service. Their charge levels aren't what they were when they were new (1800mAh versus rated at 2300) but they're perfect for use in my computer mice and even the digital camera when it's just being used around the house for snapshooting the grandkids.

 

...ken...

Edited November 23, 2009 by Ken in Regina

[+RandyE111]

What's the difference between the BC900 and BC9009 LaCrosse chargers? Couldn't find a thing on their website. Thanks.

[+Chrysalides]

What's the difference between the BC900 and BC9009 LaCrosse chargers? Couldn't find a thing on their website. Thanks.

AFAIK the 9009 is a replacement of the 900 which has been discontinued.

 

There doesn't seem to be any official word on what changed other than color. There's some speculation that it fixed some problem with the 900 but that's all it is - speculation.

[+ubievol]

pete, great info!

 

what is your recommendation on a charger for the eneloops?

 

thanks

[+Curioddity]

what is your recommendation on a charger for the eneloops?

Despite what I wrote in post #10, the 4-cell charger which now comes bundled with Eneloops is a pretty good bet. The La Crosse and Maha chargers mentioned in this thread are also good as long as you don't use them in fast-charge mode. I'm sure there are others, but I'm not familiar with 'em. Look for the words "peak detect" or "deltaV" and avoid chargers which charge depleated cells in less than 2 hours.

 

Pete

[jimlarkey]

FWIW, there is a Amazon La Crosse Technology BC-9009 AlphaPower Battery Charger forum that shares user's experiences. There is a discussion on the eneloops which might be of value to those considering eneloops. I've found NLee the Engineer discussions to be very useful.

 

Cheers,

Jim

Edited November 28, 2009 by jimlarkey

[+ras_oscar]

I have been "gifted" a duracel charger. Came with a pair of 2000 mah cells. Went out after reading responses to my previous thread and bought a 4 pack of duracel 2650 mah. The charger doesn't have any documentation either on the package or on the website. It has a pilot light that starts out red and turns green after depleted cells are plugged in overnight. The unit says "Duracel model CEF-20. The unit outputs 1.4V at 280ma according to the power ratings on the unit. Not sure whether it continues charging when the light turns green, switches to trickle or turns off. Just depleated my first rechargable cells yesterday and charged them last night. Just looking for a good servicable charger, nothing fancier than I really need.

 

Should I be concerned about potential overcharging?

[+Chrysalides]

The unit says "Duracel model CEF-20.

Looks like a decent enough charger : http://www.efytimes.com/e1/fullnews.asp?edid=20800

 

One easy way to verify is to plug in almost freshly charged battery into it and see how long it takes for the light to turn green. It should be pretty fast, compared to an almost depleted battery.

[guggie]

The unit says "Duracel model CEF-20.

Looks like a decent enough charger : http://www.efytimes.com/e1/fullnews.asp?edid=20800

 

One easy way to verify is to plug in almost freshly charged battery into it and see how long it takes for the light to turn green. It should be pretty fast, compared to an almost depleted battery.

 

That assumes the charger does not "condition" and discharge the cell first before charging it up, as several of the MAHA chargers do.

[+Chrysalides]

The unit says "Duracel model CEF-20.

Looks like a decent enough charger : http://www.efytimes.com/e1/fullnews.asp?edid=20800

 

One easy way to verify is to plug in almost freshly charged battery into it and see how long it takes for the light to turn green. It should be pretty fast, compared to an almost depleted battery.

 

That assumes the charger does not "condition" and discharge the cell first before charging it up, as several of the MAHA chargers do.

From my experience with a few chargers (including Maha), you have to explicitly request for a "condition" mode. The default has always been "recharge only". I don't know of any charger that would by default discharge before recharging.

[+ras_oscar]

thanks for the thorough answer. I feel much better now.

 

BTW: with all the talk about rechargable battery brands you might want to check out this link:

 

http://www.rechargeable-battery-review.com...aster-list.html

 

Paticularly like that they publish their test protocols. Was supprised the enloops didn't make the list.

[guggie]

thanks for the thorough answer. I feel much better now.

 

BTW: with all the talk about rechargable battery brands you might want to check out this link:

 

http://www.rechargeable-battery-review.com...aster-list.html

 

Paticularly like that they publish their test protocols. Was supprised the enloops didn't make the list.

 

That review is more than 2 years old. The new eneloops are newer than that, correct?

[+Cache Liberation Front]

Tagging a great thread for later, never mind me.

[gitarmac]

thanks for the thorough answer. I feel much better now.

 

BTW: with all the talk about rechargable battery brands you might want to check out this link:

 

http://www.rechargeable-battery-review.com...aster-list.html

 

Paticularly like that they publish their test protocols. Was supprised the enloops didn't make the list.

 

That's a pretty old list.

 

I have several brands and there is no doubting the eneloops do hold their charge, and do work in the things I put them in. I have to top off my other brands if I want to use them as spares, and even then they only are fully charged for a short while.