Spokane Geocacher Dies

[+Snoogans]

Truly sad news. My condolences to his family...

 

Making no assumptions about the deceased in this case, this is exactly WHY I over rate the terrain and difficulty on my caches in the Eastern Sierra. I wouldn't want a death associated with one of my caches even though I could not be blamed for it.

[+Lookout Lisa]

Stuart Anderson Memorial Fund

 

All donations made through this page will be forwarded to the Spokane Teachers Credit Union Stuart Anderson Memorial Fund: http://www.cache-advance.com/SAMF.asp

 

We have been in touch with the Anderson family to share our condolences regarding Stuart's tragic accident while geocaching in the Spokane Dishman Hills Natural Area. We know that many more in the geocaching community would like to do so as well.

 

You can make a direct deposit to the Memorial Fund by coming into any of the Spokane Teachers Credit Union branches and doing a credit or debit card transaction at a teller window.

 

However, we are a world wide community; so, in partnership with the Inland Empire Geocaching Chapter we are offering an on-line collection place of donation funds for those outside of the Spokane area.

 

Here is a message from the family of Stuart Anderson to the geocaching community:

While we as a family are trying to cope with this tragedy, it is comforting to know that people who we have never met are sharing in our loss. Even though Stu was quite new to caching he had instantly fallen in love with it. It allowed him to put his love for the outdoors, adventure, and searching for the unknown all into one activity.

 

I have been told that he and his wife, Kelly, used the handle k123anderson when searching for caches. We have already set up a memorial fund in his honor. It is with Spokane Teachers Credit Union and is the Stuart Anderson Memorial Fund. We will be using donations to help with the costs associated with his memorial service and the expenses that go along with that. We have also started discussing, since he is to be cremated, that where we spread his ashes we would also like to place a plaque in memory of how great a man he is.

 

On a side note, I am sure that Stu would not want this event to have a negative affect on how any one views geo-caching. There is risk involved in just about everything we do in life, and this was just a tragic accident. We never know how short life can be, so use this as motivation to get out and do what you love as often as you can.

 

Once again I would like to express my gratitude to you and the geo-caching community.

Kyle Lewis

Son-in-Law

 

If you decide to make a donation, you will be able to set whatever amount you desire to go to the Memorial Fund.

 

Cross-posted in the NW forum too

[IslandAdventure4]

Wow Thats terrible news. My thoughts and prayers go out to his family

[+DragonsWest]

Very sad news and a sobering reminder the hazards inherent in life.

 

I'm planning a hike into the Grand Canyon for next week and have taken precautions and continue to monitor weather and will check in trail conditions when I arrive in the park. I harbor no illusions there are dangers in my own undertaking. I've done such things many times in my life and have felt on at least three occasions that I'm about to die, or could have for what I've just done. None of those occasions involved GeoCaching, so in taking on this hobby I have accepted additional risk, in particular I'm out and about much more often.

 

I'm reminded of the words of singer Jimmy Buffett, after he had sailed a boat through a storm which could have claimed his life - he felt like a rudderless child. At times like this I feel the weight of that sentiment. Though I continue to take risks and go about taking as much care as I can, there are times I still feel like a rudderless child, too.

 

I encourage all GeoCachers to exercise proper care and caution. It's not worth a broken lege, drowning, paralysis or death to log a cache.

 

To Stuart Anderson's family and friends my most sincere condolences. Peace be with you.

[+The Coffee's]

This would be one of the most feared posts to be added to what is seen as a "fun and adventurous" hobby.

Our team and many others in Australia are saddened by a death in geocaching and our deepest sympathies go to the family and friends of the Stuart Anderson.<p>

Regards Mr.Coffee and the Coffee Clan.

[4wheelin_fool]

It's such a shame. My heart goes out to his family. It also appears he was brand new to the sport with only 1 find or so.

 

There is risk involved in just about everything we do in life, and this was just a tragic accident. We never know how short life can be, so use this as motivation to get out and do what you love as often as you can.

 

I agree.

[+The Rat]

As one of the "greedy lawyers" referred to earlier (before you toss the brickbats, I am retired and I never did personal injury law), I wouldn't be so sure about no liability. As pointed out, we don't know how close the victim was to the cache and so far as I tell from the cache listing, it had sufficient warnings for an experienced geocacher and was rated properly, although I've never been there. I also don't know Washington law. It did, however, require traveling over the dangerous trail from which the man fell, apparently. If nothing else the attractive nuisance theory might apply here, if that exists in Washington law, and Groundspeak has never taken any reasonable steps to prevent this sort of thing, to ensure that proper warnings have been placed on a cache listing, to train Reviewers in how to determine if a cache is safe, etc. The fact that they don't allow them on or near railroad tracks, for example, is evidence that they are aware a cache listing may draw someone to go for a cache that poses a hazard, that it is their responsibility to take reasonable steps to prevent that, and it also can be used to show that a geocacher, especially a new one, might believe that Groundspeak therefore wouldn't list a cache that was too dangerous, thus inducing reliance. At least a lawyer could argue that. In California there is an open trails exception that relieves a landowner from responsibility if he opens his land to the public for hiking without fee and without improvement of the land, but that generally only applies to the landowner, not to someone placing something there and wouldn't even protect the landowner for an affirmative action like hiding something there and advertising it in a way that is likely to draw people there. All the hush hush attitude here about the cache and owners is likely to be taken as evidence of consciousness of guilt. Archiving the cache afterward probably cannot be used as evidence of negligence because of a legal principle that post-injury remedial action is not allowed into evidence. Otherwise people would never fix a hazard for fear it would be used against them. Wrongful death generally can only be brought by the estate or immediate family of a victim, but negligence actions possibly can be brought by anyone who suffered a financial loss from the death, such as an employer, although that varies from state to state.

 

The fact is that anyone hiding a cache in a high terrain area or in high vehicle traffic areas, or anywhere posing a potential danger of injury is taking a risk of liability. I go for those caches now and then but I don't hide them because they are dangerous for others. I predicted some time ago that Groundspeak would be driven out of business by the first big tort suit and I still think it will happen, though maybe not on this one. More likely it will be for one where someone young falls and is paralyzed from the neck down, thus needing tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars worth of care for the rest of his or her life. All lawyers know that it is much cheaper if the victim dies. I think all the ostriches hiding their heads in the sand on this one are doing the members a disservice. You need to be careful not only in where you go and what you try while caching, but also in what you hide, how you describe it, and whether to volunteer as a reviewer. Your insurance won't cover all of it if it's a big one. You could lose your house.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

The fact is that anyone hiding a cache in a high terrain area or in high vehicle traffic areas, or anywhere posing a potential danger of injury is taking a risk of liability. ...

 

... You need to be careful not only in where you go and what you try while caching, but also in what you hide, how you describe it, and whether to volunteer as a reviewer. Your insurance won't cover all of it if it's a big one. You could lose your house.

Facts or conjecture?

 

I think one of Groundspeak's owners is an attorney, I feel certain that they employ others, and at least two of the Reviewers are attorneys. If the risks you warn of are realistic I expect that they have thoroughly explored it and protected themselves.

 

As to cache owner liability it has been discussed many times with no factual conclusion... I expect that someone will eventually try, I don't expect that they will get anywhere.

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

Pretty sure when you sign up for an account, you agree to the TOU, which makes it pretty clear that if you are seeking or hiding a cache, you assume all risk. You want an account and the coordinates, you agree to the Terms of Use.

 

Here, let me copy and paste that for ya anyways:

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking, and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a cache. Be prepared for Your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution. You assume all risks arising in connection with seeking a cache or any other related activity.

[GOF and Bacall]

Pretty sure when you sign up for an account, you agree to the TOU, which makes it pretty clear that if you are seeking or hiding a cache, you assume all risk. You want an account and the coordinates, you agree to the Terms of Use.

 

Here, let me copy and paste that for ya anyways:

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking, and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a cache. Be prepared for Your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution. You assume all risks arising in connection with seeking a cache or any other related activity.

 

In many jurisdictions you can not sign away your right to sue. And I would not count on Groundspeak for any support should someone sue you as a cache owner. I suspect that they would avoid placing themselves in that legal position.

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

Pretty sure when you sign up for an account, you agree to the TOU, which makes it pretty clear that if you are seeking or hiding a cache, you assume all risk. You want an account and the coordinates, you agree to the Terms of Use.

 

Here, let me copy and paste that for ya anyways:

Geocaching, hiking, backpacking, and other outdoor activities involve risk to both persons and property. There are many variables including, but not limited to, weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience, that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a cache. Be prepared for Your journey and be sure to check the current weather and conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution. You assume all risks arising in connection with seeking a cache or any other related activity.

 

In many jurisdictions you can not sign away your right to sue. And I would not count on Groundspeak for any support should someone sue you as a cache owner. I suspect that they would avoid placing themselves in that legal position.

 

yeah, I don't know much about anything really, just pointing that out. Though I don't want to derail this much more than that poster did already.

[+The Rat]

The replies to my post are good ones and worth considering; I don't really disagree all that much, but there is an element of denial by some. I am not saying anyone is likely to be sued or would be found liable in this case, only that there is a legal risk that most geocachers want to pretend doesn't exist. As for terms of use, there are various possible reasons why that wouldn't stand up in court, and for that matter plenty of caches that people who never signed up for geocaching accounts go for so it wouldn't apply. Many puzzle caches, for example, can be accessed by anyone and solved for real coordinates even though the posted coordinates aren't shown. Some caches are publicized in local newspapers or elsewhere with enough information to figure out where they are. Many geocachers go with guests who aren't geocachers and who may make unwarranted assumptions about the hobby/sport. Kids are legally incapable of accepting those terms of use but still might sign up; I don't remember whether it asks you if you're 18, but a kid could lie and get on the site easily. And so on. A jury gave the moron who spilled hot coffee on herself millions from McDonald's and now we all have to drink not-so-hot coffee - if we go to McDonald's for coffee anyway. A jury found OJ not guilty. I could cite many examples, but the point is that a jury can do almost anything it wants in disregard of the law, and they often do when they see a sympathetic plaintiff, such as a paralysis victim.

 

There are also a couple of legal principles called res judicata and collateral estoppel that are very unfair (in my opinion) to defendants in these sorts of cases. Briefly, if the defendant loses once in court it may be estopped (prevented) from ever denying liability or at least negligence again in a similar case because it has already been proven, after the defendant had a chance to prove otherwise, that it was negligent (to fail to have warnings, or failure to train reviewers, or whatever). The same does not apply to plaintiffs, because each plaintiff is a newcomer to court and has never had a chance to litigate the issue. So a defendant could win fifty cases in a row and then lose one, and that means it is liable forever in every case with the same issue. That's why the coffee has to be cooled down for everyone and why so many corporations settle almost every case. They can't afford to lose even one. If Groundspeak is ever held liable, it pretty much has to go out of business, because it can't go out and retrieve all those caches that are out there already.

 

The statement from the family in this case makes pretty clear that they consider it an accident and not anyone's fault, at least not anyone related to geocaching. I do not expect a lawsuit in this case based on what I've read. I just think people shouldn't be guided solely by zealots and should be able to weigh all the risks. Most importantly, I think there are too many geocachers putting out extreme caches and too many people without the experience, equipment, physical skills or fitness being drawn into going for them. Be careful.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I think there are too many geocachers putting out extreme caches and too many people without the experience, equipment, physical skills or fitness being drawn into going for them. Be careful.

 

You could say the same thing about hiking, picnicing, and clubbing.

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

nvm, sorry

Edited November 23, 2009 by NWCREW

[+bshwckr]

Firstly, I would like to offer my condolences to all those affected by this tragedy.

 

Hi The Rat

In respect to the likelihood of a lawsuit in these circumstances, I hear what you are saying. Being from Australia, the second most litigious society in the world, there is also a chance that a suit would result from similar circumstances here.

You mentioned earlier that GS may need to look at the lack of rules etc to do with the hiding of caches in dangerous situations, however, I would like to get your opinion on what I believe is a similar circumstance.

 

I subscribe to "Walks" magazine which is based in Australia and promotes popular and remote walking tracks, mostly in Australia but with feature walks OS. It is a really good mag IMHO. You probably have similar magazines in the U.S.A.

Some of these walks are going to have sections of track on the top of sheer cliff faces with no barriers for protection and other hazards, yet the magazine does not feel the need to publish a disclaimer. If, on the magazines advice, someone decides to tackle one of these published walks and suffers a mishap, I cannot imagine anyone blaming the magazine.

Can you explain how this scenario is different to GS publishing a geocache?

bshwckr

Edited November 28, 2009 by bshwckr

[+k123anderson]

I don't often post here but sorry to hear of the loss. Like others I have probably pushed past what is sensible at the time but survived. But I would hate to hear someone had died attempting one of mine.

 

If someone is in contact with the family please add my condolences from Australia to someone I never knew, but who shared the same passion for getting out there and exploring to find a lunchbox on the side of a cliff. Let them know I might be half a world away but I feel for them.

 

This is my first attemp to talk, my name is Kelly the wife of Stuart Anderson we just got started on this new adventure when He was so suddenly taken from me. We spent all our time together doing what we love doing, spending time together. We enjoyed eachother and had several adventures. We were very happy and love each other.

[+k123anderson]

Stuart Anderson Memorial Fund

 

All donations made through this page will be forwarded to the Spokane Teachers Credit Union Stuart Anderson Memorial Fund: http://www.cache-advance.com/SAMF.asp

 

We have been in touch with the Anderson family to share our condolences regarding Stuart's tragic accident while geocaching in the Spokane Dishman Hills Natural Area. We know that many more in the geocaching community would like to do so as well.

 

You can make a direct deposit to the Memorial Fund by coming into any of the Spokane Teachers Credit Union branches and doing a credit or debit card transaction at a teller window.

 

However, we are a world wide community; so, in partnership with the Inland Empire Geocaching Chapter we are offering an on-line collection place of donation funds for those outside of the Spokane area.

 

Here is a message from the family of Stuart Anderson to the geocaching community:

While we as a family are trying to cope with this tragedy, it is comforting to know that people who we have never met are sharing in our loss. Even though Stu was quite new to caching he had instantly fallen in love with it. It allowed him to put his love for the outdoors, adventure, and searching for the unknown all into one activity.

 

I have been told that he and his wife, Kelly, used the handle k123anderson when searching for caches. We have already set up a memorial fund in his honor. It is with Spokane Teachers Credit Union and is the Stuart Anderson Memorial Fund. We will be using donations to help with the costs associated with his memorial service and the expenses that go along with that. We have also started discussing, since he is to be cremated, that where we spread his ashes we would also like to place a plaque in memory of how great a man he is.

 

On a side note, I am sure that Stu would not want this event to have a negative affect on how any one views geo-caching. There is risk involved in just about everything we do in life, and this was just a tragic accident. We never know how short life can be, so use this as motivation to get out and do what you love as often as you can.

 

Once again I would like to express my gratitude to you and the geo-caching community.

Kyle Lewis

Son-in-Law

 

If you decide to make a donation, you will be able to set whatever amount you desire to go to the Memorial Fund.

 

Cross-posted in the NW forum too

 

thanks to all, for your support and prayers

This was a tragic accident and nobody fault. It was just that, an accident.

We were passionate for an adventures and this was another thing we did together.

sincerly kelly anderson

[+humboldt flier]

Stuart Anderson Memorial Fund

 

All donations made through this page will be forwarded to the Spokane Teachers Credit Union Stuart Anderson Memorial Fund: http://www.cache-advance.com/SAMF.asp

 

We have been in touch with the Anderson family to share our condolences regarding Stuart's tragic accident while geocaching in the Spokane Dishman Hills Natural Area. We know that many more in the geocaching community would like to do so as well.

 

You can make a direct deposit to the Memorial Fund by coming into any of the Spokane Teachers Credit Union branches and doing a credit or debit card transaction at a teller window.

 

However, we are a world wide community; so, in partnership with the Inland Empire Geocaching Chapter we are offering an on-line collection place of donation funds for those outside of the Spokane area.

 

Here is a message from the family of Stuart Anderson to the geocaching community:

While we as a family are trying to cope with this tragedy, it is comforting to know that people who we have never met are sharing in our loss. Even though Stu was quite new to caching he had instantly fallen in love with it. It allowed him to put his love for the outdoors, adventure, and searching for the unknown all into one activity.

 

I have been told that he and his wife, Kelly, used the handle k123anderson when searching for caches. We have already set up a memorial fund in his honor. It is with Spokane Teachers Credit Union and is the Stuart Anderson Memorial Fund. We will be using donations to help with the costs associated with his memorial service and the expenses that go along with that. We have also started discussing, since he is to be cremated, that where we spread his ashes we would also like to place a plaque in memory of how great a man he is.

 

On a side note, I am sure that Stu would not want this event to have a negative affect on how any one views geo-caching. There is risk involved in just about everything we do in life, and this was just a tragic accident. We never know how short life can be, so use this as motivation to get out and do what you love as often as you can.

 

Once again I would like to express my gratitude to you and the geo-caching community.

Kyle Lewis

Son-in-Law

 

If you decide to make a donation, you will be able to set whatever amount you desire to go to the Memorial Fund.

 

Cross-posted in the NW forum too

 

thanks to all, for your support and prayers

This was a tragic accident and nobody fault. It was just that, an accident.

We were passionate for an adventures and this was another thing we did together.

sincerly kelly anderson

Condolences, Geo Huggggzz to you and yours.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

A jury gave the moron who spilled hot coffee on herself millions from McDonald's and now we all have to drink not-so-hot coffee - if we go to McDonald's for coffee anyway.

You're a lawyer? Then you should know the facts of that case, which in no way match what your statement implies. You lose all credibility when you do that.

 

k123anderson wrote

This is my first attempt to talk, my name is Kelly the wife of Stuart Anderson we just got started on this new adventure when He was so suddenly taken from me. We spent all our time together doing what we love doing, spending time together. We enjoyed each other and had several adventures. We were very happy and love each other.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you. Thank you for posting here and sharing your thoughts and feelings. I hope that you will continue to seek adventure in this game and elsewhere. As time goes by "Oh, Stuart would have loved this!" will become a reward for having fun.

 

Hang in there, and when you get ready you will find a great geocaching community ready to open its arms to you and include you in our adventures.