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GSAK RefreshAllGPX macro banned


Deceangi

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Due to a small Number of users of this Script, using it in a way which has affected GC's Database Servers. Groundspeak has taken the following measures.

 

Those found to have been excessively hitting the database with this script have been Banned. In each case Groundspeak is prepared to work on a one to one basis with each member to resolve the issue, and allow the member to become unbanned.

 

Any member who has been banned for using the script has been contacted by Groundspeak and asked to contact them directly to resolve the issue.

 

Groundspeak have also requested Clyde to remove the Script from the GSAK Website.

 

It is also suggested that all users of the above script who have it installed in GSAK remove it, to avoid the risk of having their account Banned. As Groundspeak will be continuing to monitor the Database for members using this script. Continued usage risks a ban, which Groundspeak might not rescind.

 

News of this has also been posted to GAGB's forum by Matthew 7:7 Too

 

Deceangi

 

edited to correct Clive to Clyde, Graculus had already pointed out the mistake around 08:45 :lol:

Edited by Deceangi
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Have I missed something ?

If you have to ask, it wasn't directed at you.

 

And I don't understand Rutsons comment either.

It's just a clarification of the name of the person who manages GSAK. That's all.

 

Should I be dragged outside and shot ?

Yes, but that's because you are centering your text and blocking it out with question marks and smileys. Just post and skip the special effects. :D

Edited by BlueDeuce
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WHY exactly this has to be done that way? Doesn't iPhone users and Trimble GCNAV hit the database as much (or even heavier) than users of the script?

 

I am not defending Clyde or the way the script gets the data, but there should be a way for users NOT using iPhone or the Trimble software to get updated data on the caches they are interested. It should not be a one-way street here, ALL premium users pay the money to get the GPX files.

 

Why only a specific group of users get more benefits than the rest? All benefits should be accesible by all premium users in equal terms, not benefit some because they use a specific/approved application (or specific phone brand/model). I feel this is very unfair.

 

Those who have used these type of scripts are looking to get the same benefit as the users who have access to specific technology items that give them an "edge" over the rest.

 

Every premium user should have the same benefits as everyone else, regardless if they have a specific brand/model of an approved device/software or not.

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WHY exactly this has to be done that way? Doesn't iPhone users and Trimble GCNAV hit the database as much (or even heavier) than users of the script?

 

I am not defending Clyde or the way the script gets the data, but there should be a way for users NOT using iPhone or the Trimble software to get updated data on the caches they are interested. It should not be a one-way street here, ALL premium users pay the money to get the GPX files.

 

Why only a specific group of users get more benefits than the rest? All benefits should be accesible by all premium users in equal terms, not benefit some because they use a specific/approved application (or specific phone brand/model). I feel this is very unfair.

 

Those who have used these type of scripts are looking to get the same benefit as the users who have access to specific technology items that give them an "edge" over the rest.

 

Every premium user should have the same benefits as everyone else, regardless if they have a specific brand/model of an approved device/software or not.

 

If you have a Windows based smartphone try (unauthorized software link removed), it's free and works ok for me, providing you have a signal. If the phone has a GPS built in you can search by 'Present Location' or you can do a Post Code, GC number or co-ords search. Definately worth a look.

Edited by mtn-man
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WHY exactly this has to be done that way? Doesn't iPhone users and Trimble GCNAV hit the database as much (or even heavier) than users of the script?

They are paying for the privilege

 

I am not defending Clyde or the way the script gets the data, but there should be a way for users NOT using iPhone or the Trimble software to get updated data on the caches they are interested. It should not be a one-way street here, ALL premium users pay the money to get the GPX files.

And they do. Every cache page had a link to download the GPX file with the last 20 logs and every single cache page shows every single log for the cache.

 

Why only a specific group of users get more benefits than the rest? All benefits should be accesible by all premium users in equal terms, not benefit some because they use a specific/approved application (or specific phone brand/model). I feel this is very unfair.

 

Those who have used these type of scripts are looking to get the same benefit as the users who have access to specific technology items that give them an "edge" over the rest.

What "edge" does it give them? I fail to see how TNLNSL or TFTC can help make a cache any easier to find?

 

Every premium user should have the same benefits as everyone else, regardless if they have a specific brand/model of an approved device/software or not.

Pretty much every phone has the ability to access the internet and therefore the cache page. How you pay for that is a personal choice but everyone has the same ability to read the cache page.

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They are paying for the privilege

 

So do I when I pay for CacheBerry or for any other app. Trimble's app you pay a monthly fee, iPhone app is just ONE time (exactly the case as for CacheBerry [or any other app]) BUT iPhone gets the benefit of LIVE data. To do the same on (almost) all the other apps you have to get yourself manually, or use one of the ill-mentioned scripts to have the same "edge" those two priviledged apps have.

 

And they do. Every cache page had a link to download the GPX file with the last 20 logs and every single cache page shows every single log for the cache.

Yes they do. But those apps mentioned have the benefit of getting that data in a way condemned with other apps: automatically. So, basically I must imply that to get the data on my Blackberry LIVE I have to pay another premium?

 

If there are comparably powerful devices in the market (Blackberry, Android, Droids, Palm Pre, etc.) WHY Groundspeak only caters iPhone users and not others? There is no indication they would do otherwise. BTW, the addition of support to gps-enabled phones will be troublesome, the wider the variety of phones will make it more difficult to support everything. The action of just supporting ONE specific device/OS just creates more controversy.

 

What "edge" does it give them? I fail to see how TNLNSL or TFTC can help make a cache any easier to find?

 

An "edge" in the sense that they can IMMEDIATELY check if a cache (or group) has been disabled or not, or the latest DNFs, or FTF for a cache. To do the same on almost every other device you have to go to the webpage of EACH cache and check, when the users with those "priviledged apps" can just click and check the live data (updated directly from the db at gc.com). That gives a certain advantage to those users, and when that advantage is given just to a specific group, it becomes a case of reverse discrimination to other premium users who paid their PMs to have a certain degree of advantage over non-paying users.

 

Pretty much every phone has the ability to access the internet and therefore the cache page. How you pay for that is a personal choice but everyone has the same ability to read the cache page.

Exactly, why benefit JUST ONE specific brand/type of phone when there are plenty of comparably powerful phones where the same capability CAN be provided. Catering just a specific group is discriminatory.

 

And you are incorrect with: "same ability to read the cache page". I DO NOT have the same ability to read automatically the cache pages as some users can, even when we both pay the same premium membership. Everyone can access the cache page manually (if that is what you imply) but NOT everyone has access to the gc.com database (PQs are short in the accessibility to the database). Any other access BUT the privileged one (available to just a specific group of users) is condemned. When you read cache information or listing with the iPhone app you are accessing (afaik) directly from the database, NOT the cache page.

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I don't really want to get into a huge debate and nit-pick every comment as I'm not here to defend Groundspeak. It's just that I think you're getting a little but carried away with this.

 

I don't use iPhone or Navigator but like yourself use Cacheberry. I don't feel that anyone has an "edge" over me. If I'm searching for a cache and I can't find it then I will use the link to open the cache page. To me this is just the same as either the iPhone or Navigator? I don't see how you feel these have an advantage except that the steps to get there are a little less. In fact I feel that Cacheberry is a superior application to both of those as it has the ability to store information offline and can be used when there is no network coverage. AFAIK the iPhone app and Navigator won't work in such a situation.

 

When I mentioned in my first post about paying for the privilege I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I meant that the developers of the apps are paying for the use of the API and for access to the site in such a fashion.

 

When you read cache information or listing with the iPhone app you are accessing (afaik) directly from the database, NOT the cache page.

The cache page is the database (or at least a small section of it). When you view the cache page from a PC or mobile then you are accessing the database.

 

I still can't see what the benefit of having every log of every cache in your GSAK DB gives when looking for a cache and I still don't see how I am discriminated against by choosing to use Cacheberry on a Blackberry as opposed to the iPhone app?

Edited by dino-irl
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Totally agree about the iPhone apps, they do seem to be getting extra functionality from their membership and would appear to have some extra privileges. I don't have a smart phone and certainly don't have any need to get every log for every cache I might visit but I did find it useful to be able to refresh a small group of caches on an irregular basis. My program of choice for a quick refresh, GASK using the banned macro, was used maybe twice a month on average to do a quick status update 20 on or so caches around a specific location where I already had the cache details instead of taking much longer using PQ's. It seems a little sad to me I can't continue doing this which is just expediting a manual process and saving me a lot of time with infrequent use. Another possible way this could be alleviated a little would be to be able to download gpx data instead of the loc format when getting 20 caches from a search results page.

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[

Should I be dragged outside and shot ?

Yes, but that's because you are centering your text and blocking it out with question marks and smileys. Just post and skip the special effects. B)

 

If I wanted a lecture on how to write a blog or perhaps how to 'flower it up' a bit I will let you know eh !

May be that's just the way we do things in the U.K that makes our country a Great Britain !!!!! B):):huh::o

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[

Should I be dragged outside and shot ?

Yes, but that's because you are centering your text and blocking it out with question marks and smileys. Just post and skip the special effects. ;)

 

If I wanted a lecture on how to write a blog or perhaps how to 'flower it up' a bit I will let you know eh !

May be that's just the way we do things in the U.K that makes our country a Great Britain !!!!! B):):huh::o

****Quite agree, after all this is the UK Forum ****

Well I think it is,!! :blink::blink: Is it?????????? :(:( Not sure now????????? B):rolleyes:

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Totally agree about the iPhone apps, they do seem to be getting extra functionality from their membership and would appear to have some extra privileges. I don't have a smart phone and certainly don't have any need to get every log for every cache I might visit but I did find it useful to be able to refresh a small group of caches on an irregular basis. My program of choice for a quick refresh, GASK using the banned macro, was used maybe twice a month on average to do a quick status update 20 on or so caches around a specific location where I already had the cache details instead of taking much longer using PQ's. It seems a little sad to me I can't continue doing this which is just expediting a manual process and saving me a lot of time with infrequent use. Another possible way this could be alleviated a little would be to be able to download gpx data instead of the loc format when getting 20 caches from a search results page.

I agree with you and AFAIK that was how the macro was intended to be used. However, Kai Team on the GSAK forum has mentioned some users abusing the macro and hitting the site up to 80.000 times in one month. Its those people that are to blame for this and not Groundspeak!

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Totally agree about the iPhone apps, they do seem to be getting extra functionality from their membership and would appear to have some extra privileges. I don't have a smart phone and certainly don't have any need to get every log for every cache I might visit but I did find it useful to be able to refresh a small group of caches on an irregular basis. My program of choice for a quick refresh, GASK using the banned macro, was used maybe twice a month on average to do a quick status update 20 on or so caches around a specific location where I already had the cache details instead of taking much longer using PQ's. It seems a little sad to me I can't continue doing this which is just expediting a manual process and saving me a lot of time with infrequent use. Another possible way this could be alleviated a little would be to be able to download gpx data instead of the loc format when getting 20 caches from a search results page.

I agree with you and AFAIK that was how the macro was intended to be used. However, Kai Team on the GSAK forum has mentioned some users abusing the macro and hitting the site up to 80.000 times in one month. Its those people that are to blame for this and not Groundspeak!

 

Quite - I've also heard of people using it to update large (1000s) databases, every day - essentially running the macro 24hrs per day.

 

As has been said many times - it was created in order to help update archived caches automatically - all other caches can be updated using PQs. It was never intended to replace PQs...

 

Dave

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I am NOT under the intention to make a debate about Groundspeak or their actions (good/bad), I still feel that just that some groups of users have some benefits other users do not (e.g. not at the same priority level).

 

dino-irl states that the cache page IS the database, that is incorrect. I will not delve into details but the database is where the cache pages, apps and everything else gets their information from. The cache page just pulls everything together for a particular cache and to present everything for a specific cache "organized" for a person browsing the webpage, but the info is pulled by db-calls (or PQs), each call to the db is a granular piece of information requested from a server (db server) NOT the cache page.

 

Taking into consideration the popularity of sql, transactional, scalable DB applications and technologies; I do not understand why some specific platforms/models/devices get a preference over others. Scalable DBs are made to be accessed by thousands (maybe millions) of users and still keep working. I do not understand why an iPhone user zooming in/out of a map can hit the GC.com db just as much as somebody using Google Earth (banned/limited) to update coordinates and basic info for caches in a certain region.

 

And yes, Cacheberry (for me) is a superior app. Many users (just as me) feel discriminated because no other apps are allowed to access the db information automatically, just the trimble and Apple apps. And if you benefit just some users from a whole, larger group; you are discriminating the rest since they do not share those same benefits.

Edited by ShotgunPR
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I do not understand why an iPhone user zooming in/out of a map can hit the GC.com db just as much as somebody using Google Earth (banned/limited) to update coordinates and basic info for caches in a certain region.

Why should there be a reason? This isn't the government and there is no question of democratic accountability or some perceived need to treat people equally. However, here are some possible reasons:

1. iPhone users have ponied up $9.95 for the privilege.

2. You can hit a lot more stuff with Google Earth than with the iPhone. Your fingers will drop off much earlier in the second case, plus there's questions of bandwidth and/or limited data plans, compared to GE on a fast ADSL connection.

3. Marketing :)

 

Perhaps Groundspeak should remove the extra stuff from the iPhone users, if that would make you happy. But I'm not certain why this has to be a competition, cf your earlier post about "having an edge". When did geocaching become a competitive activity? About the only competitive element I can think of is going for FTF, and in that case the solution is generally a fairly level playing field: /a/ set up Insta-Notify to forward to your phone, and /b/ trade in your car for a motorcycle. :D

Edited by sTeamTraen
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If having all data available immediately is NOT an "edge" over users who have to go to each and every cache manually/go to the WAP site/access an Internet page from the phone (provided you are on coverage area)/etc. to get the same functionality... then why we all pay a premium membership?

 

Maybe I am under the belief that we pay a premium membership for the betterment of the geocaching experience for ALL, not just for some users to have a benefit/advantage/edge/convenience OVER other users who paid for the "same" status. Or is it that the money I paid is geared toward developing/providing some users a more "enjoyable" experience over users like me who are "left behind" ignored and then told "You can do the same, but do it on your own! [if you know how]". Ask any disabled person if accessibility is and "edge" or not. Accessibility, convenience, immediateness, are an "edge" some users are provided where others from the same "group" (premium users) are not. That is what I mean.

 

In any case, it is unfair. Just my opinion... some will share it, some will be against. I do not worry about that. I just hope TPTB really have something good for EVERYONE up their sleeve and they provide some way to equalize "features" in the future. Right now, it does not look that way. I maybe wrong on that one, but sure hope that this might change.

 

BTW, Insta-notify is NOT working as expected. There are many periods when it is simply NOT working. This month alone, from 8 caches published recently where I live, I only received notification on 2. Other geocachers from the same area have even reported they NEVER received any notification at all.

Edited by ShotgunPR
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I have CacheBerry on my Blackberry .

I have instant notification of a new cache .

I am able to put that cache on my watchlist so I am updated of each and every log on the cache .

I can instantly download the GPX file to my Blackberry and go looking for it .

I can log my find from the Blackberry.

 

What more do you need?

 

I doubt that an Iphone user has any advantage over me.

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I have CacheBerry on my Blackberry .

I have instant notification of a new cache .

I am able to put that cache on my watchlist so I am updated of each and every log on the cache .

I can instantly download the GPX file to my Blackberry and go looking for it .

I can log my find from the Blackberry.

 

What more do you need?

 

I doubt that an Iphone user has any advantage over me.

 

1 - I also do have CacheBerry :laughing:

2 - Sometimes Instant Notification does not work at all! Been the case with over 20-30 caches since I've been Geocaching.

3 - I live in an island that has around 300 caches (overall). I really doubt I need to put all those caches in a watchlist if I decide to go weekend caching. I can reach any part of the island in a weekend, so having the updated info on ALL PR caches is a must here!

4 - "instantly"? Really? Maybe you have 4G. And you HAVE to initiate the download so NO, it does not reach your BB unless YOU initiate the download. Some will argue "works the same under coverage area" but the iPhone can retain the caches information even on out of coverage area. If it is in the phone, it remains there. On the iPhone, its automatic. You do not have to ACTUALLY download anything. Everyone else HAS to download it to the unit (or browse to get the GPX).

5 - IF you upload the field notes to GC, THEN post them. No direct posting AFAIK.

 

It is not what "more" I need (or others who share my same line-of-thought). The issue is that I AM A PREMIUM USER and other paying members have some conveniences others do not have. Why is that? I do not see the sense of "paying more" (e.g. Trimble's Geocache Navigator) to get the same convenience.

 

Or to have to use a a specific device (because of licensing, merchandising campaign, advertisement, etc.) to benefit from some conveniences OVER any other device. Its monopolistic and like putting a fence around for everyone else!.

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Snip...

It is also suggested that all users of the above script who have it installed in GSAK remove it, to avoid the risk of having their account Banned. As Groundspeak will be continuing to monitor the Database for members using this script. Continued usage risks a ban, which Groundspeak might not rescind.

Snip...

 

Can we still use the single refresh script?

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3 - I live in an island that has around 300 caches (overall). I really doubt I need to put all those caches in a watchlist if I decide to go weekend caching. I can reach any part of the island in a weekend, so having the updated info on ALL PR caches is a must here!

Thats one PQ then....?

4 - "instantly"? Really? Maybe you have 4G. And you HAVE to initiate the download so NO, it does not reach your BB unless YOU initiate the download. Some will argue "works the same under coverage area" but the iPhone can retain the caches information even on out of coverage area. If it is in the phone, it remains there. On the iPhone, its automatic. You do not have to ACTUALLY download anything. Everyone else HAS to download it to the unit (or browse to get the GPX).

On the iPhone you do have to download the caches when in coverage (or wifi for iPod Touch users). As far as i've found, it doesn't automatically download your latest PQ when online. You actually have to go to the PQ (or list as its known in the Groundspeak App) and tell it to download the latest running of the PQ. Then it is stored on the device for when you get out and about.

It is not what "more" I need (or others who share my same line-of-thought). The issue is that I AM A PREMIUM USER and other paying members have some conveniences others do not have. Why is that? I do not see the sense of "paying more" (e.g. Trimble's Geocache Navigator) to get the same convenience.

 

Or to have to use a a specific device (because of licensing, merchandising campaign, advertisement, etc.) to benefit from some conveniences OVER any other device. Its monopolistic and like putting a fence around for everyone else!.

In terms of convenience, all Premium members have access to the same features if they choose to use Groundspeak software on the right devices. This is how business works! If you choose to pay a third-party for their software or hardware and it doesn't quite plug into the Groudnspeak system in the way you want, well that's your choice. Groundspeak are a profit making Business, not a charity that exists to facilitate Geocaching. If they don't have money, the site closes and we all wonder whats on TV.

 

Since getting the App on my iPod touch and winning an Oregon 550 i've not opened GSAK once which is a shame as its a good program, I just don't need it right now. I don't feel i have an edge over anyone, nor do I feel those with an iPhone and connectivity outside the house have an edge over me! If I can't find a cache, i go home and log a DNF. If it'd been disabled, yeah it'll annoy me, but I'll still wake up the following morning, the world will continue to spin, no harm done!

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Anyway, correct me if i'm wrong here: Its my understanding that you can have a PQ delivered straight to your Blackberry email, download the attachment and import it into Cacheberry to view the GPX file. This is exactly what you get in the iPhone app just without the 'save it from email' step.

 

Yes. The email opening, download of the PQ (zipped) and importing of the zip into CacheBerry has to be done by the user. iPhone just avoids the user from doing all the things (convenience) which is part of my argument. Opening the email requires at least one keypress, downloading the attachment another 2, exiting the email another keypress, getting to CacheBerry another, opening the import function another, importing the zip file another... you get the idea. There is not a direct linkage of the attachment sent thru email-to CB (so far).

 

I already expressed it is not business-like to announce something that is a partial truth. I just hope this practice does not hurt the sport in the future.

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In terms of convenience, all Premium members have access to the same features if they choose to use Groundspeak software on the rightdevices. This is how business works! If you choose to pay a third-party for their software or hardware and it doesn't quite plug into the Groudnspeak system in the way you want, well that's your choice. Groundspeak are a profit making Business, not a charity that exists to facilitate Geocaching. If they don't have money, the site closes and we all wonder whats on TV

 

Exactly where on the terms does it mention "right" devices or software?

 

By paying (or requiring) a Premium membership they generate money (and all the sales from the Geocaching stores and licensed products).

 

The motivation for the Premium membership IS to facilitate Geocaching for their Premium members over non-paying users (PQs, Caches in a route, Instant notify, bookmark lists, etc.).

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It's allright - any extra time an iphone user gains by getting the information with less keypresses is spent trying to find the cache with the sub standard gps chip (does it even have one? or is it triangulation from cell towers? -I never could find that out).

If those vital few seconds mean so much then it looks as if your going to have to get an iphone.

Me - I'll survive with my berry.

Remember - it's only a game - don't take it to seriously. It's about finding tupperware in the woods . Try explaining geocaching to a doctor and see the look in their eyes as they comit you to the lunatic assylum.

Happy New Year

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It's allright - any extra time an iphone user gains by getting the information with less keypresses is spent trying to find the cache with the sub standard gps chip (does it even have one? or is it triangulation from cell towers? -I never could find that out).

If those vital few seconds mean so much then it looks as if your going to have to get an iphone.

Me - I'll survive with my berry.

Remember - it's only a game - don't take it to seriously. It's about finding tupperware in the woods . Try explaining geocaching to a doctor and see the look in their eyes as they comit you to the lunatic assylum.

Happy New Year

 

I love my berry too. My berry beats an iPhone in geocaching everytime! I won't start a holy war on that (some would love to) I'll just say my BB is a faster tool for geocaching.

 

All I'm asking (as so do a LOT of other geocachers) is that we ALL be treated equally. Why cripple/avoid providing additional features/conveniences to everyone, that are given specifically to certain groups. Why supporting just a specific, closed platform when there are many others that are completely capable of providing the same features/conveniences? Android, Palm, Windows Mobile, Blackberry, etc. are just as powerful as the iPhone platform, rendering "other methods to get the data" (as the macro banned in the OP) completely unnecessary. If other platforms were supported just as equally, the need for such macros won't have any justification at all.

 

At least there is some light ahead with the announcement that the Android platform will get an official Geocaching app. That is what I've been waiting for the Blackberry platform too. At least, it is a positive step in the right direction.

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I love my berry too. My berry beats an iPhone in geocaching everytime! I won't start a holy war on that (some would love to) I'll just say my BB is a faster tool for geocaching.

 

.

.

.

.

If other platforms were supported just as equally, the need for such macros won't have any justification at all.

 

At least there is some light ahead with the announcement that the Android platform will get an official Geocaching app. That is what I've been waiting for the Blackberry platform too. At least, it is a positive step in the right direction.

 

Totally agree I (and a whole lot of others) would love CacheBerry to get the full api acess and hopefully someday it will.

Now don't get me wrong but its a money thing .

If you pay for Premium member status you get a certain set of features, different from PM features.

If you have an I phone and pay out your cold hard cash for the Geocaching endorsed app then you get a set of features .

It seems to me ( just an observation - no cold hard facts and happy to be proven wrong) that the iphone was seen as the trendy new phone that fitted the section of society that geocaching . com wants to attract so the app was developed and was ( up to now) exclusive to the iphone. . Of course when the phone that becomes the iphone killer hits the market place then an app for it will open up a whole new market again and repeat . It's all about money - and thats good business and ultimately at the end of the day GC.com is a business.Somewhere somehow Jeremy has to pay himself and those who work for him. If that dosen't happen then we don't have a hobby.

Edited by Beefy4605
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If you have a Windows based smartphone try (unauthorized software link removed), it's free and works ok for me, providing you have a signal. If the phone has a GPS built in you can search by 'Present Location' or you can do a Post Code, GC number or co-ords search. Definately worth a look.

 

This program no longer works either. Apparently Groundspeak is preventing the use of any software except their own iPhone program to get data directly from their web site.

DrRounds2

Edited by mtn-man
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