New Meaning to "Armchair" Caching

[+ZSandmann]

From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching.com>

Subject: [GEO] team cacheaholic contacting *********** from Geocaching.com

To: ************

Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009

 

My name is Matthew from Team Cacheaholic. I noticed you were getting ready to have a caching event and wanted to see if anyone at your event my be interested in joining our Team. We are currently seeking a member from each state to participate in our Team. What we are looking to accomplish is the unification or geocachers across the states and add a little bit of competition and a fight for a prize every month. There is no money involved and the only requirement is to log Team Cacheaholic or TCAH at every future cache. That is it, I will do the rest of the work for this. Whoever has the most finds could win an unactivated coin. Also, there will be prizes for the most FTF's and most finds in a day. Like I stated, this is just a fun way to get add a little more competition into a fun filled game. We are looking for no more than two players per state. I will only take the first two from each state. We will look for future events to be added into the team and will also look at expanding throughout the rest of the world. If you know of anyone(or even yourself) who would like to join this please give them my contact info and have them send the team a friend request. Thank you for your time.

Team Cacheaholic (Matthew)

 

User's Profile:

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=e5...7a-f6809344c0d2

 

 

So I had a look at their profile and saw their location is Japan and yet they are simultaneously logging finds in the USA and Japan. This is just the weirdest thing I've ever seen as far as bogus finds go to be honest.

[+ArcherDragoon]

From: Geocaching <noreply@geocaching.com>

Subject: [GEO] team cacheaholic contacting *********** from Geocaching.com

To: ************

Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009

 

My name is Matthew from Team Cacheaholic. I noticed you were getting ready to have a caching event and wanted to see if anyone at your event my be interested in joining our Team. We are currently seeking a member from each state to participate in our Team. What we are looking to accomplish is the unification or geocachers across the states and add a little bit of competition and a fight for a prize every month. There is no money involved and the only requirement is to log Team Cacheaholic or TCAH at every future cache. That is it, I will do the rest of the work for this. Whoever has the most finds could win an unactivated coin. Also, there will be prizes for the most FTF's and most finds in a day. Like I stated, this is just a fun way to get add a little more competition into a fun filled game. We are looking for no more than two players per state. I will only take the first two from each state. We will look for future events to be added into the team and will also look at expanding throughout the rest of the world. If you know of anyone(or even yourself) who would like to join this please give them my contact info and have them send the team a friend request. Thank you for your time.

Team Cacheaholic (Matthew)

 

User's Profile:

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=e5...7a-f6809344c0d2

 

 

So I had a look at their profile and saw their location is Japan and yet they are simultaneously logging finds in the USA and Japan. This is just the weirdest thing I've ever seen as far as bogus finds go to be honest.

I received it as well...and deleted it just as fast as I received it...

[knowschad]

Sounds a lot like this thread: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...p;#entry4124500

[+Team Cotati]

That's really great information to have.

 

Thank you.

[+vbpad]

hmmm this guy looks fishy looks like he's "finding" caches through other people? alot of these logs shouldn't be valid

[+okie-wan]

Anyone can log finds like this. It's easy.

Just let yourself go..................and use the Force!

[+ZSandmann]

I love the generic logs too

 

"Logging for Team Cacheaholic VIA ___________"

[+briansnat]

Whatever he is doing it isn't geocaching.

[Mr.Yuck]

I love the generic logs too

 

"Logging for Team Cacheaholic VIA ___________"

 

Just looks like a couple of military buddies, one in Okinawa, and one in Nevada doing the finding right now. If they would have left it at that, it probably would have went on for years, and no one would have noticed or cared. Why should they? It's just a team of friends, logging under a team account. Spamming strangers to join the team? Bad idea. Bad, bad idea. I'm sure they'll be getting their wrist slapped anytime now.

[+Castle Mischief]

Sounds a lot like this thread: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...p;#entry4124500

 

Perhaps a mod would be kind enough to merge them?

[+ZSandmann]

The spamming GC mailboxes and offers of "prizes" were what made me bring this over to the forums. What caches someone logs bothers me not. (Although the generic logs are a pet peeve).

[+TripCyclone]

Sounds a lot like this thread: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...p;#entry4124500

 

Yep, that's the same one. I got the message too. Frankly, it wouldn't bother me so much if the idea of a competition involved signing MY OWN name and just reporting my numbers to the organizer. It's the fact that to enter the contest involves signing THEIR NAME on caches and boosting THEIR NUMBERS, in exchange for the chance, repeat CHANCE that I might win a coin. Sorry, not interested.

[+Sagefox]

I love the generic logs too

 

"Logging for Team Cacheaholic VIA ___________"

 

Just looks like a couple of military buddies, one in Okinawa, and one in Nevada doing the finding right now. If they would have left it at that, it probably would have went on for years, and no one would have noticed or cared. Why should they? It's just a team of friends, logging under a team account. Spamming strangers to join the team? Bad idea. Bad, bad idea. I'm sure they'll be getting their wrist slapped anytime now.

 

But it appears that the Nevada "buddy" also logs the cache as found under his own account. Husband and wife teams don't do that.

[GOF and Bacall]

Anyone can log finds like this. It's easy.

Just let yourself go..................and use the Force!

 

I believe you meant "May the FARCE be with you".

[+Chrysalides]

I received it as well...and deleted it just as fast as I received it...

I feel so left out.. *sniff*

 

 

not.

[+Chrysalides]

So, I have a modest proposal. Those of you with a job and use direct deposit, just fill in my name and account number. At the end of the year, whoever makes the most money gets a geocoin. Deal?

[+Too Tall John]

So, I have a modest proposal. Those of you with a job and use direct deposit, just fill in my name and account number. At the end of the year, whoever makes the most money gets a geocoin. Deal?

Ok, I'll just need your PIN number so I can access the account...

 

Actually, are they planning on handing out the account password to everyone who joins the team? I guess they are, how else would they get others to log caches under their name?

[+TripCyclone]

So, I have a modest proposal. Those of you with a job and use direct deposit, just fill in my name and account number. At the end of the year, whoever makes the most money gets a geocoin. Deal?

Ok, I'll just need your PIN number so I can access the account...

 

Actually, are they planning on handing out the account password to everyone who joins the team? I guess they are, how else would they get others to log caches under their name?

 

According to the e-mail, you don't do that. You inform them of the find and "they will take care of the rest."

 

Already sent this to Groundspeak earlier in the evening. Too many people surporting the idea that this is against guidelines, it's cheating, and it's borderline spam to boost their numbers.

[+Morning Dew]

Read my post in the other forum. I'm assuming the way it works is as follows:

 

1. YOU (CacherJoe) go find a cache.

2. You sign CacherJoe

3. You sign Team X

4. You go home and log your find under your CacherJoe account

5. You notify the account holder of Team X (I found this one and that and this one, etc.)

6. Team X account holder goes to the cache page(s) and logs it as a find for TEAM X.

 

And yes, this is just like a Family, Husband and Wife, etc. account (with one minor exception). With those accounts caches are typically logged wether there is one member present, some members of the team present or all the members of the team present.

 

The difference is that there is usually only one account (an account representing the team). This of course saves money for the team.

 

Of course there are people out there who maintain 3 accounts; one for the team, one for the husband and one for the wife. Some people who do this will do exactly as I described above. If they were physically at the cache they will sign their own name and the teams name and log it to both accounts (even if the wife was not present). This way they know how many caches they have found individually and they also know how many caches they have found "combined" as a team.

 

You might ask, why don't they maintain 2 accounts and just add the numbers together? Because the numbers wouldn't be correct.

 

Cacher A finds cache #1, 2, 5, 7 and 9 for FIVE finds

Cacher B finds cache #1, 2, 4, 7 and 8 for FIVE finds

 

But really as a team they have only found 7 caches NOT 10.

 

Personally, I think this is a fantastic idea. It's pretty much well known that the definition of "find" has become almost ANYTHING (that's why you guys love to debate it endlessly) so why not encourage it. It would make fun sport. Just think you could have state teams vs. state teams. Country vs. Country.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Morning Dew

[+Morning Dew]

Already sent this to Groundspeak earlier in the evening. Too many people surporting the idea that this is against guidelines, it's cheating, and it's borderline spam to boost their numbers.

 

Against the guidelines? Is this true. I'll freely admit I don't know the guidelines. I just go out and find the occasional cache all alone. I read logs ALL the time saying "Just me on this one, the wife was home sick" signed TEAM ABC. Yes, team caching has never occured on this proposed scale but it's certainly well known that it goes on and sure seems like GS could care less.

[+Chrysalides]

You might ask, why don't they maintain 2 accounts and just add the numbers together? Because the numbers wouldn't be correct.

Two observations from this:

 

1. It's not particularly complicated to find the union of 2 or more sets

 

2. Too bad Groundspeak does not have the concept of a team account. A team account doesn't log any finds, but its finds is calculated as the union of all member finds.

[+Arrow42]

Against the guidelines? Well, I'm not so sure. I can't recall any guideline that specifically addresses this issue.

 

How can they even call it a team? A team is a group of people who work togethere. This is a group of acting individually.

 

What does "Team Cacheaholic" get from this? I don't get what their motivation in all this is. Unless it's only about the find count? But then... it's so meaningless. He (or she?) can't really take credit for those finds.... not in their own subconscious. The only real accomplishment is convincing a few (dozen?) people to put your names on little peaces of paper.

 

*Shrug* Oh well, cache on. Please don't log any finds on my caches, Team Cacheaholic.

[+Morning Dew]

Against the guidelines? Well, I'm not so sure. I can't recall any guideline that specifically addresses this issue.

 

How can they even call it a team? A team is a group of people who work togethere. This is a group of acting individually.

 

What does "Team Cacheaholic" get from this? I don't get what their motivation in all this is. Unless it's only about the find count? But then... it's so meaningless. He (or she?) can't really take credit for those finds.... not in their own subconscious. The only real accomplishment is convincing a few (dozen?) people to put your names on little peaces of paper.

 

*Shrug* Oh well, cache on. Please don't log any finds on my caches, Team Cacheaholic.

 

Oh gosh....now you've done it. You've gone down the VERY slippery internet slope of define "insert a word [you choose TEAM]". Don't even bother getting your dictionary out, someone will quote websters for you soon enough. And whatever you do, don't EVER try to define the word "find".

 

I totally agree with absolutely everything you said except one small part.

 

It's still a "team" in a traditional sense. Some teams play entire seasons with some members never once playing in a game. Also, they are working together; i.e. for example the husband finds the cache and the wife likes logging the caches. Hence, a team.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Morning Dew

[+CanUK_TeamFitz]

Anyone wanna join _TeamFitz_ ?

 

Right now it's just a small husband and wife operation but we're expanding the team to international level!

 

Just log your finds with my sorry, our caching name and let me know, then I'll write a log* for the team online.

 

*typically about how we enjoyed the view, the unique cache container, the hike or any interesting/funny incidents that happened on the way from our couch to the computer.

[+TripCyclone]

If this was a husband/wife team, sibling team, or some kind of team where the only people involved were related in some way, that might make sense for them. The above example, and math, for the husband/wife team would be perfectly acceptable IMHO. But, there is a difference in this case. I've heard someone say that the current team members, one in Japan and one in Nevada, are brothers. If they had left it at that, no big deal. But now, they are trying to sign up random people to be part of their team. People they don't know, aren't related to, etc., etc. THAT is what makes the difference here. And they are doing it several months AFTER they created the account and have been finding caches. Most teams that would be looked at as acceptable are doing this from the beginning of the account and THEY ARE NOT trying to recruit other people.

 

With regards to the guidelines, I'm looking at the part where it says you have physically been to the cache site and found the cache to be able to claim the find. Team Cacheaholic is not doing this. Their recruits are doing this for them, while they claim the finds. If it was a husband/wife team and let's say the wife had been on a trip to Kansas City and happened to find one of my caches...no problem. But if they are in Japan and one of the people who sign up to be part of this "competition", and remember that they are signing people up under the idea of joining a competition, then I will likely delete it and politely inform both parties that I consider the Team Cacheaholic find as bogus and ask that they do not try to sign any more of mine.

 

Heck, for the competition, I have to report my numbers to them so they can log it online. It would save them a considerable amount of work to just have me tell them what I found under MY NAME. A quick check of my stats would back it up. So to me, the only real reason to require that I sign with their name is to boost "Team Cacheaholic's" numbers.

[Clan Riffster]

I'll rate this one as a "Meh".

I'm not sure what game they are playing, but it certainly isn't the one I am playing.

I'm betting they are OK with that. For that matter, so am I.

This is certainly not the quirkiest variation of the common theme I've seen.

Would I participate in this? No.

Will I get upset because someone else does? No.

[Tahosa and Sons]

I'll be looking forward to a log on one of my sno-bound caches. And then I will gladly delete it.

[+va griz]

His profile shows the team to be the owner of many caches in a short time, all adopted. That isn't a problem in and of itself, but on some of them he has found the cache only through someone else. Just seems odd to me. If you are going to adopt a cache that someone else found for you, doesn't maintemance become an issue?

[+treponema]

Not only are his finds bogus, but there is a cache "located" in Portugal that is promoting this sort of lying and cheating (see GC1DZFC).

 

I've asked for proof of his visit to my caches or I'll delete the logs.

[+EARTHQUAKE5683]

ATTENTION ALL

 

We are Earthquake 5683 and the ‘Nevada brother’ as referred to above. We are husband and wife who log under our name or as EQ5683 for short. Up until today we were members of Team Cacheaholic, but thanks to a fellow cacher who got word of this and knows how we really do play the game notifying us of the recent happenings we have contacted the person who logs and told them not to log ours any longer.

The Team was created by a few avid cachers stationed in Okinawa, Japan; membership was meant to be for those like us who rush out at 0300 for a FTF or who place a cache and waited for your fellow cachers to show up and BS for a bit because you haven't been able to catch up lately. We are/were a close group that spent a lot of time together; since we are military we tend to get stationed or temporarily sent all over the world and thought it would be nice to see collectively where we all go. It was not all about the numbers or getting all kinds of people to join or to 'win' prizes.

I don't know if other members of the team were aware of current turn of events or not, and from this point on we will no longer be logging caches as TCAH.

We do NOT phantom or armchair log in fact we despise it as much as all of you do. We delete people’s logs who don’t find our caches and I would expect you all to do the same to ours.

[+EARTHQUAKE5683]

Not only are his finds bogus, but there is a cache "located" in Portugal that is promoting this sort of lying and cheating (see GC1DZFC).

 

I've asked for proof of his visit to my caches or I'll delete the logs.

 

I'm assuming since your in Utah, that we must have logged one or more of your caches while in SLC for Geocoinfest; I assure you that if we logged any of your caches our name was signed on any log book in said cache, we also logged Team Cacheaholic as we were part of that team and there.

 

The Portugal cache mentioned above is one that we worked on for quite a while, the cacher who started the idea worked hard with reviewers to make sure that we followed the rules. Below is part of the cache listing ...

 

VERY IMPORTANT

 

ALL LOGS AND NOTES MUST BE WRITTEN IN ENGLISH.

 

Geocaching rules says that only the one that finds and signs the log book can register the found it.

The others must only write notes.

 

...as you can see it wasn't intended for everyone to log every cache

[+CanUK_TeamFitz]

Not only are his finds bogus, but there is a cache "located" in Portugal that is promoting this sort of lying and cheating (see GC1DZFC).

 

I've asked for proof of his visit to my caches or I'll delete the logs.

 

I'm assuming since your in Utah, that we must have logged one or more of your caches while in SLC for Geocoinfest; I assure you that if we logged any of your caches our name was signed on any log book in said cache, we also logged Team Cacheaholic as we were part of that team and there.

 

The Portugal cache mentioned above is one that we worked on for quite a while, the cacher who started the idea worked hard with reviewers to make sure that we followed the rules. Below is part of the cache listing ...

 

VERY IMPORTANT

 

ALL LOGS AND NOTES MUST BE WRITTEN IN ENGLISH.

 

Geocaching rules says that only the one that finds and signs the log book can register the found it.

The others must only write notes.

 

...as you can see it wasn't intended for everyone to log every cache

 

The international team thing doesn't really push any buttons for me but I really like the idea behind a cache series that spans the continents.

[Mr.Yuck]

ATTENTION ALL

 

We are Earthquake 5683 and the ‘Nevada brother’ as referred to above. We are husband and wife who log under our name or as EQ5683 for short. Up until today we were members of Team Cacheaholic, but thanks to a fellow cacher who got word of this and knows how we really do play the game notifying us of the recent happenings we have contacted the person who logs and told them not to log ours any longer.

The Team was created by a few avid cachers stationed in Okinawa, Japan; membership was meant to be for those like us who rush out at 0300 for a FTF or who place a cache and waited for your fellow cachers to show up and BS for a bit because you haven't been able to catch up lately. We are/were a close group that spent a lot of time together; since we are military we tend to get stationed or temporarily sent all over the world and thought it would be nice to see collectively where we all go. It was not all about the numbers or getting all kinds of people to join or to 'win' prizes.

I don't know if other members of the team were aware of current turn of events or not, and from this point on we will no longer be logging caches as TCAH.

We do NOT phantom or armchair log in fact we despise it as much as all of you do. We delete people’s logs who don’t find our caches and I would expect you all to do the same to ours.

 

Yeah, I'm the rather "observant" (or should I say nosey) guy who read the thread and determined that Team Cacheaholics consisted of a few military buddies. No one would ever care about that. I have no idea what prompted one of your members to spam strangers using the "email another player" tool on geocaching.com, and offer prizes to join the team. Maybe they're really bored?

[AZcachemeister]

So, I have a modest proposal. Those of you with a job and use direct deposit, just fill in my name and account number. At the end of the year, whoever makes the most money gets a geocoin. Deal?

 

I'm in!

Send me your account number...and (of course) your PIN.

[+TripCyclone]

The Team was created by a few avid cachers stationed in Okinawa, Japan; membership was meant to be for those like us who rush out at 0300 for a FTF or who place a cache and waited for your fellow cachers to show up and BS for a bit because you haven't been able to catch up lately. We are/were a close group that spent a lot of time together; since we are military we tend to get stationed or temporarily sent all over the world and thought it would be nice to see collectively where we all go. It was not all about the numbers or getting all kinds of people to join or to 'win' prizes.

 

And that would seem reasonable to me. It would be a great idea to have that posted on the account page to explain the team's purpose. While it wouldn't take much to just pool My Finds queries instead of using a single account, at least the purpose is now understood.

 

I don't know if other members of the team were aware of current turn of events or not, and from this point on we will no longer be logging caches as TCAH.

We do NOT phantom or armchair log in fact we despise it as much as all of you do. We delete people’s logs who don’t find our caches and I would expect you all to do the same to ours.

 

Based on your above description of the intended goal of the account, I'd lean towards "okay, it's a stats thing and not phantom logging". The idea that this might be related to phantom logging is more a result of the "recruitment" e-mails that went out the last few days to various random people asking to join the team as part of some competition. With no reasonable explanation of what was going on and why some of us were being asked to log someone else's name on caches we visited, I hope it's easily understood why some of us believed it was a way to boost numbers under the guise of competition.

 

If you didn't know that these e-mails had gone out, then I would probably be wondering which member of the team decided to do this and why the rest of the group wasn't notified. Quite honestly, it came off as spam. Several of the GeoTwitterers that I communicate with all came to the same idea...sounds like spam, sounds suspicious, sound like number boosting.

 

Thank you for taking the time to get online and explain some of what was going on, even if you weren't able to explain it all.