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How long should i wait to activate lost coins in the mail?


River Cacher

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I have been selling coins out of US for awhile and there has been some issues.

 

I decided to start keeping the tracking numbers off trackable geocoins sold out of US.

 

Now i am getting slammed with claims against me on orders not showing up.

 

Some have been refunded or some have been replaced and some still have issues.

 

I have one order i sent the items twice and they still refuse to aknowldege they received them but the sad thing is this lady from Canada has one of the coins activated on her account.

 

She is not active on this forum but it is sad to see there is people like this out there.

 

I had Idaho micro coin lost in the mail to Canada and i offered to send this person another Idaho micro and he declined and let the claim go through.

 

It has now been a good 60 days for the Lost Idaho coin so do i activate it????

 

Or is this wrong on my part to do.

 

I have been having issues in the last few months with several in Canada, the Netherlands and one in Germany.

 

Does anyone know of safe ways to ship out of US that is fair for me and the buyers.

 

The only way i see it fair for me is to have out of US buyers pay for insurance.

 

Just trying to make this work for us all.

 

Thanks for any advice. Mike

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I don't know what you should do, that's up to you.

I just want to tell my story here.

I'm Dutch, so at the other side of that big lake.

Recently I've got an issue. Due to a computer crash of the seller I didn't get my coin. Recently he said he had send it but although coins from later transactions are coming in, the coin he said he send still hasn't arrived.

Then there was a seller I bouhgt two coins of (not eBay). On the forums I read others were getting theirs but not me. I asked him to send new ones and he did. They didn't arrive either. Meanwhile he got the first shipment back, all torn up. Finaly I got my money back, leaving us both "angry".

These were the only issues I've had. Hundreds of coins came across well.

I hope you will solve your problems soon. Maybe there is a way to block these people from bidding on your coins? You could only offer to send them to US and not Worldwide (you should make an exception for me ofcourse [:)]).

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I understand your concern... So far, I haven't had any problem of lost coins and I have bought quite a lot of them!

 

Activate lost coins seems a good option and protection against dishonest recipients. Then again, mail can be slow overseas, so I would say you wait three-four weeks before doing so. And above all else, write that clearly somewhere so no one will tell you they didn't know!

 

Force buyers to pay for insurance would probably deter a lot of potential buyers. Not everyone wants to pay half (or more) of the coin's price in shipping and I would certainly stop buying from you. But you could add a notice saying that you won't hold any responsibility with lost coins should the insurance not be chosen.

Some people choose to simply stop selling outside of US, and I find it discriminating as well, so many good coins we have little to no chance of ever getting... Geocaching and geocoin craze are worldwide, and the world is not limited to US. Please don't go that way!

 

This is just my opinion of European coin lover. Hope this helps!

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I think that you are free to activate the coins that have been replaced and/or refunded, as the recipient no longer has any claim on them. As for the coins that have not been replaced/refunded and still have issues, I would hold off on activating them just in case they are lost in the system and reappear at a later date. Once the "issues" are resolved, I say activate away :)

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I want to Thank everyone for the replies or emails.

 

I will wait a little while to activate the coins after claims are final just incase they do show up.

 

It would be sad for out of US buyers to have to pay 30.00 to ship a 10.00 coin.

 

On some sites we are not allowed to say we are not responsible for orders.

 

Due to pay pal rules it is up to me to make sure the person gets there items and if they are lost stolen or damaged it is up to me to take care of the issue.

 

I take some of the money made off coins to fund geocaching events i host and then i donate world wide to geocaching events so this does hurt on me being able to do this.

 

I do have to say i made it around 6 months with no claims or issues so that was nice and less stress for me.

 

I wish the best of luck to all on there mail.

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Hey river cacher - I keep a list of all coins sent out to people and should I ever have a shipment that does not arrive, (I'm sure odds are, I will at some point!), then once I replace the coins or refund the money, I would definitely activate them.

 

Perhaps letting your customer know in an email when a shipment is suspected to be lost something like:

 

"Hi So-and-so, I am sorry to hear that the coins have still not made it to you. Mail can sometimes be unpredictable and I have occasionally had shipments arrive quite late. If it is ok with you, I would like to wait 5 more business days to see if they show up. At that point, I will provide you a choice to receive a refund or a replacement order and I will activate the coins in the lost shipment and mark as LOST on their cache page. Fingers crossed they show up soon! Thank you for your patience!"

 

This way, hopefully it eases the buyers mind that you sent them. Or, if the buyer has the plan to be dishonest (by saying the coins didn't arrive but they actually did), then they know that in 5 days the coins they received will be virtually worthless. The package may then "arrive" before the 5 days is up.

 

Sending shipments ANYWHERE from Canada with delivery confirmation costs an arm and a leg...something no one would pay for on a $10 coin. And it's certainly not something I could afford to absorb myself for piece of mind.

 

Just one more opinion for you...

Best of luck!

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i like to offer geocoins to International buyers from here in the U.S.A., however, adding International insurance to a package from the U.S.A. is very expensive. often, the insurance is more expensive than most single geocoins, and it adds a considerable amount to the overall cost of an item. i state clearly on my ebay auction page, that any geocoins mailed without insurance are the resposibility of the buyer, and that applies to U.S.A. and International buyers. the reason is that very often, i only have 1 geocoin to sell and i cannot "replace" a lost geocoin, and although a refund is an option, with International Customs delays, a refund may not be issued for several weeks, if it is issued at all. so, when an item is lost in the mail, it really isn't fair for the buyer or for the seller.

 

how do International buyers, here at the forum, feel about buying "at your own risk" when making a geocoin purchase from the U.S.A. with no mail insurance?

 

as far as activating geocoins lost in the mail, i wouldn't activate a geocoin i sold, unless i had issued a refund to the buyer or sent a replacement, as i would then consider the lost geocoin still "mine" as an owner. i would probably activate it quickly after issuing a refund, too.

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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Just wanted to add as a "other sider": It can take long for the coins to arrive. My experience is that they are in general way faster to the US than from there to Germany.

 

Everything below two weeks is I'd consider fast. Up to four weeks happens rather freqently and I had coins that arrived six weeks after sending. So I would suggest: Start worrying after maybe four weeks and you may activate the coins (which is a good idea, I think) after six or seven weeks.

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i like to offer geocoins to International buyers from here in the U.S.A., however, adding International insurance to a package from the U.S.A. is very expensive. often, the insurance is more expensive than most single geocoins, and it adds a considerable amount to the overall cost of an item. i state clearly on my ebay auction page, that any geocoins mailed without insurance are the resposibility of the buyer, and that applies to U.S.A. and International buyers. the reason is that very often, i only have 1 geocoin to sell and i cannot "replace" a lost geocoin, and although a refund is an option, with International Customs delays, a refund may not be issued for several weeks, if it is issued at all. so, when an item is lost in the mail, it really isn't fair for the buyer or for the seller.

 

how do International buyers, here at the forum, feel about buying "at your own risk" when making a geocoin purchase from the U.S.A. with no mail insurance?

 

as far as activating geocoins lost in the mail, i wouldn't activate a geocoin i sold, unless i had issued a refund to the buyer or sent a replacement, as i would then consider the lost geocoin still "mine" as an owner. i would probably activate it quickly after issuing a refund, too.

 

If you kept the codes and watched them, lets say that someone was stealing the coin and activated it a few months after the claim. It seems to me that you could contact ebay/paypal with this information and you would have proof via activation of the coin.

 

Now if they are collectors they wouldn't activate anyway so maybe activate the coin 90 or 120 days later, well after any postal delays could kick in.

 

Question.. I have just shipped a couple and one was international. It seems to me that according to ppal/ebay that even if I state responsibility of the buy that if the coin doesn't arrive it is still on me correct?

 

Here is why I believe that : I actually had one package I bought arrive that had been ripped apart in shipping. It arrived in a plastic sleeve from the USPS with a we are sorry, our machine ripped open the package etc... so one of the coins was missing.

 

The other was there and I figured it was the responsibility of the postal service. When I called paypal and ebay, I explained that I didn't believe it was on the buyer, but they both wanted to immediately put is as Item Not as Described to go back on the seller.

 

They essentially told me it is always on the seller to ensure the package arrives as described. I dropped it and didn't process a claim because I felt that it wasn't fair to the seller to do everything correctly and have the post office mess it up.

Edited by teamhaynes
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When I called paypal and ebay, I explained that I didn't believe it was on the buyer, but they both wanted to immediately put it as Item Not as Described to go back on the seller.

 

They essentially told me it is always on the seller to ensure the package arrives as described. I dropped it and didn't process a claim because I felt that it wasn't fair to the seller to do everything correctly and have the post office mess it up.

yes, i believe this is the policy of both ebay and paypal. it doesn't quite seem fair to you (the seller), especially considering that you had verifiable proof that the item was lost by the post office.

 

i have to say that this environment of buying and selling is perfect for the dishonest buyer or seller, and the honest business people are basically at the mercy of the postal service. they do an excellent job for the most part, but hopefully a loss claim won't break the honest seller. this is the main reason many U.S.A. sellers refuse to sell to international buyers. honest sellers can only depend on the postal service and on the word of the buyer that the item arrived safely. i'd like to continue selling internationally, but if i have to deal with another claim, i might need to change this and sell to U.S.A. insured buyers only to prevent losses.

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I wouldn't have thought of activation as an option, but now that you mention it...I think it's a good idea.

 

Once a Shipment has been sent again, or a refund has been given, then the original shipment does not belong to the recipient, but it belongs to you again. No matter who's hands the coin ends up in, it is your property, and I would activate them AS SOON as you sent the replacement/refund.

 

I'll have to take this as a lesson for when I ever start selling coins?

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How much would it cost to ship UPS or Fed Ex? They seem to have a much better system than the post office and I know their tracking system is updated daily.

 

I did a quick quote for shipping an envelope from Canada to the US for the weight of one geocoin. They were fast but at $36-38... well, not sure ANYONE would pay that! lol!

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How much would it cost to ship UPS or Fed Ex? They seem to have a much better system than the post office and I know their tracking system is updated daily.

 

I did a quick quote for shipping an envelope from Canada to the US for the weight of one geocoin. They were fast but at $36-38... well, not sure ANYONE would pay that! lol!

 

Nope I don't think anyone would pay that. That is outrageous for one coin.

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I agree - coins do get lost in the mail but most get delivered. Every seller needs to assess their acceptable level of risk and decide on their personal business policy accordingly. A previous posted said Ebay assigns the risk/responsibility to the seller and I believe that is so - I also believe you now can not add extra to your shipping as an option for insurance or have it an optional part of shipping. Perhaps I am wrong - but that is how I read it.

 

Quite some time ago, I purchased some geocoins from a company (not reseller - they produced the coins). There was a defect in the tracking number. They advised me to return the coin and specifically told me to put "no special services" on my return.

 

When I buy coins I put them into a spread sheet with their tracking numbers. Lacking hearing about my coin arriving when I returned it and not receiving my replacement, I contacte the company. They didn't get the coin according to them.

 

Checked the tracking number and sure enough - it had been activated. When I enquired of the "owners" where they obtained the coin - Ebay was the answer. And the seller was the original company.

 

I emailed the company about this and guess what? They are ignoring my emails. Another case of claiming lost in the mail - but it really wasn't (obviously) - except this time it was the original company and producer of the coin. Still working on my resolve with the company. They are sort of forcing me to go to the AG in their state.

 

Wonder why they told me to return the coin "with no special services". Lesson learned.

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I have one order i sent the items twice and they still refuse to aknowldege they received them but the sad thing is this lady from Canada has one of the coins activated on her account.

 

She is not active on this forum but it is sad to see there is people like this out there.

I wouldn't call her a lady :D

 

I agree - coins do get lost in the mail but most get delivered. Every seller needs to assess their acceptable level of risk and decide on their personal business policy accordingly. A previous posted said Ebay assigns the risk/responsibility to the seller and I believe that is so - I also believe you now can not add extra to your shipping as an option for insurance or have it an optional part of shipping. Perhaps I am wrong - but that is how I read it.

 

Quite some time ago, I purchased some geocoins from a company (not reseller - they produced the coins). There was a defect in the tracking number. They advised me to return the coin and specifically told me to put "no special services" on my return.

 

Yes Ebay changed their policy and there no longer is an option to add insurance. Howveer, you can add it into the shipping/handling price and state insurance included or increase your starting price. You also can't state that you are not responsible once it leaves your hands. Both ebay and paypal are very much biased against the seller. If you can't prove that it actually arrived (not just that you sent it) the buyer will always win. I send all my ebay sold items and also my trades using paypal shipping. It includes delivery confirmation. It makes it easy and I'm too lazy to stand in line at the post office. :D

 

I agree that once you have refunded their money that the coin then belongs to you to activate. However, one thing I would worry about is if they already have the coin and you state you will activate it after x number of days they will activate it as soon as they get your email.

 

Definitely put these people on your list who can't bid on your auctions!

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ok some folk are weird - if i don't purchase insurance then i don't bug anyone for a coin that hasn't shown up. I have had one coin not show up from a private sale over the years - I asked he said he posted it and that was the end of the matter. And one trade - which i had no idea we had finalised! ack - I always triple check now and we trade tracking/activation codes by email ahead of the posted item.

 

For ebay i'm photographing the coin anyway so it serves well enough as proof of postage - i have only ever had one international request for insurance and it delayed the coin for so long it was the slowest coin ever worried us both and added $10 to the purchase price.

 

As for the activated returned coin please post the link to the coin vendors thread.

 

No i'm not interested in insurance - not even for the most expensive coin i have ever purchased from ebay. I just checked the seller's reputation both on ebay and here. High postal prices are a definite inhibition to impulse purchases so you might cure my addiction - I'd buy more if the postage was better!

 

oh PS. for my retail sales every code is listed against the buyers name and sent with the notice of shipment

along with a time frame in which to expect delivery. I will also send you some private advice.

Edited by forthferalz
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