Members Only Caches

[+moosehadley]

Why are some caches 'Members Only'?

 

What qualifies a cache to only be available to members?

 

Why aren't all caches open for everyone to find?

 

 

Note; by 'Member', I mean a Paying Subscriber of Geocaching.com

[+Col. Flagg]

A perk of being a member. When a cacher creates a cache they have the option to make it members only. Also some use this to try to give their cache a little more protection from people who like to steal caches for kicks.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Col. Flagg

[+bittsen]

Why are some caches 'Members Only'?

 

What qualifies a cache to only be available to members?

 

Why aren't all caches open for everyone to find?

 

 

Note; by 'Member', I mean a Paying Subscriber of Geocaching.com

 

Cache owners have the option of making their caches a "member only" cache. People do it for different reasons. Some do it just because they paid and feel others should pay. Others do it because they believe that people who pay for their membership will treat caches better, overall, than people who play for free.

 

It's a personal choice.

[+Xaa]

* Because their creators have made them Premium Member only

 

* The fact that their owner wants it to be a PM-only cache

 

* Because owners make a choice to make them PM only (sometimes because they think it makes the cache more rip-proof, sometimes because they want to try to persuade people to become PM, sometimes "because they can") and because Groundspeak makes it an option.

 

I guess on most places on this earth there will be enough caches that are not PM-only so a few PM-only caches won't really bother anyone.

[+moosehadley]

I know that the creator gets to choose, my question is this: WHY do they choose to do so?

[+linuxxpert]

I know that the creator gets to choose, my question is this: WHY do they choose to do so?

 

Because they can.

[+smstext]

out of all my caches (26+) only one of mine is a members only one, reason why is that the cache has a higher value of stuff within to my other caches and is a way of saying thank you to the other premiuim members for their caches in the area. I also dont want kids who use the site to find local caches to trash to find it.

 

At the end of the day i cant see why more people dont sign up and become members as this site probably costs lots to run in server and bandwidth charges and after all we all get a cheap day out and works out to be pennies per day.

[+Arrow42]

In my area PMO caches are rare. I've only run into a half dozen.

 

Are they real common in your area? If not... just ignore them until you get premium membership (if you ever decide it's worth it).

[+tozainamboku]

I know that the creator gets to choose, my question is this: WHY do they choose to do so?

When premium memberships were first offered in 2002 there were not that many perks that went along with it. It was basically "You get to support the website and will be the first to try out new features when they get added". There were no pocket queries, caches along routes, instant notifications, bookmark list, or even off-topic forum. I think you got to have an unlimited number on your watchlist (actually I think it was 5000 but that was "more caches than anyone would ever need") and could select a title for your forum posts. Later a mapping feature was added (long before the Google maps), and premium members could pan and zoom the maps. Suggestions from geocachers for premium features were solicited. One idea was to allow cachers to designate caches to be for premium members only. The idea served two purposes. First and foremost it was a way for geocachers to say thank you to others who supported the site by paying for premium memberships. Secondly, this happened when some of the earliest incidents involving cache pirates or cache maggots were being reported. These are people who signed up for a free account (or you didn't even need to sign up for an account then as you could see the coordinates without being logged in), and instead of finding caches and playing the game, would steal the caches or the contents and try to disrupt the game. The idea was that these maggots would not pay money to get the coordinates so showing the coordinates to only paying members provides some added security for your cache.

Edited November 9, 2009 by tozainamboku

[+Isonzo Karst]

It's owners choice. I find that I'm beginning to make more of my new caches MO these days. Frankly, I'm not sure why. Just 'cause? I doubt it affects the find rate much, my caches tend to low find numbers anyway. I pretty much know who is going to find 'em, and they're members.

 

I have some older caches in state parks and forests that I won't make MO, they are perfect starter caches. Trading caches on a nice trail, not too far out from the trail head, well hidden, but spoiler type hints. This weekend I got a "this is our first find" log on one of them.

 

I did a quick PQ check; for Florida I see 21,278 caches, 734 of them are Members only. Looks like there are plenty of finds available for those who can't afford $30.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Isonzo Karst

[+PT_Tex]

I have had some caches stolen and I think that it was non members who stoled them. So I moved them and changed the coords and made them members only and guess what. They are still there.

[+JohnE5]

In my area PMO caches are rare. I've only run into a half dozen.

 

Are they real common in your area? If not... just ignore them until you get premium membership (if you ever decide it's worth it).

An unpaid member doesn't need to ignore PMO caches. They don't show up in searches and its not like they are going to do a Pocket Query.

[+JohnE5]

 

I did a quick PQ check; for Florida I see 21,278 caches, 734 of them are Members only. Looks like there are plenty of finds available for those who can't afford $30.

How did you get a PQ for all of the state? My PQs only go to 500.

[GOF and Bacall]

I have had some caches stolen and I think that it was non members who stoled them. So I moved them and changed the coords and made them members only and guess what. They are still there.

 

Hardly proof that making them PMO is what saved them.

[+gvsu4msu]

Speaking to my experience, I have three "members only" caches.

 

The first two are Challenge caches which require a bookmark, which only premium members can create.

 

The second is our Wherigo - which I say that if someone has a compatible playing device, they are more likely to be a premium member. I am considering removing the "members only" attribute though.

 

As to why others make there caches "member's only" - it's their choice. Since I have a premium membership, they don't bother me as they show up in my query to find.

 

I guess the only "unsettling" thing of these caches is that they can see who is looking at their cache pages.

[GOF and Bacall]

Speaking to my experience, I have three "members only" caches.

 

The first two are Challenge caches which require a bookmark, which only premium members can create.

 

The second is our Wherigo - which I say that if someone has a compatible playing device, they are more likely to be a premium member. I am considering removing the "members only" attribute though.

 

As to why others make there caches "member's only" - it's their choice. Since I have a premium membership, they don't bother me as they show up in my query to find.

I guess the only "unsettling" thing of these caches is that they can see who is looking at their cache pages.

 

No, they can see SOME of the people that are looking at their cache. Not sure why that is "unsettling".

[+Scubasonic]

I know that the creator gets to choose, my question is this: WHY do they choose to do so?

 

I didn't read the posts below what I'm quoting but I have several caches that I have placed and made for "Members Only" reason I do it is simple I feel that the people that pay for the membership are serious about caching, and with that will respect the cache. For example I have a TB Hotel that was not a members only cache when I placed it and I put several of my own Geocoins in it, well some NON member stopped by and grabbed all the coins in the cache, it was his 3rd found cache and he logged the find as well as the coins online but then stopped caching and just kept my coins. After that I made it a members only and I have never had a problem since. Long and the short of it is that if you are using the site and playing the game someone out there is paying for the site you are playing on so why not support it and not be a "FREELOADER" this is just my opinion of course.

 

ScubaSonic

[+JohnE5]

It also keeps caches out of the GeoMate Jr's updates.

[+Isonzo Karst]

 

I did a quick PQ check; for Florida I see 21,278 caches, 734 of them are Members only. Looks like there are plenty of finds available for those who can't afford $30.

How did you get a PQ for all of the state? My PQs only go to 500.

 

At the risk of taking this topic Off topic, I reply. I got the total number of caches by visiting the newest caches page for Florida, the total is there. I got the number of PMO caches by previewing, but not running, a couple of date ranged PQs. One from 2000 - late 2007 and from late 2007 to the present.

[+Prime Suspect]

In my area PMO caches are rare. I've only run into a half dozen.

 

Are they real common in your area? If not... just ignore them until you get premium membership (if you ever decide it's worth it).

An unpaid member doesn't need to ignore PMO caches. They don't show up in searches and its not like they are going to do a Pocket Query.

Actually, they do show up in searches.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Prime Suspect

[+allenjpl]

In my area PMO caches are rare. I've only run into a half dozen.

 

Are they real common in your area? If not... just ignore them until you get premium membership (if you ever decide it's worth it).

An unpaid member doesn't need to ignore PMO caches. They don't show up in searches and its not like they are going to do a Pocket Query.

Actually, they do show up in searches.

 

Indeed they do. A determined non-member can triangulate the PMO caches from the search function, and use Google Maps and geosense to find and log the cache. They won't be able to log in online, and they won't have access to the cache description, but as the biggest hint is frequently the cache name itself, that isn't a large problem. And anyone who would go through that much trouble is after the hunt, not the smiley, anyway.

[+tallglenn]

Hmmm...after reading this post, I think I'm going to make more of my caches PMO. It keeps the newbies away from areas where stealth is needed. Always makes me nervous when I get an "our first find" log - I usually go check for candy, newbie replacement technique or - a can of soda (which promptly exploded in a large cache, destroying everything). Just gotta get mylazyass up and go check on caches when I see low find counts...

[+Chrysalides]

When premium memberships were first offered in 2002 there were not that many perks that went along with it. It was basically "You get to support the website and will be the first to try out new features when they get added". There were no pocket queries, caches along routes, instant notifications, bookmark list, or even off-topic forum. I think you got to have an unlimited number on your watchlist (actually I think it was 5000 but that was "more caches than anyone would ever need") and could select a title for your forum posts. Later a mapping feature was added (long before the Google maps), and premium members could pan and zoom the maps. Suggestions from geocachers for premium features were solicited. One idea was to allow cachers to designate caches to be for premium members only. The idea served two purposes. First and foremost it was a way for geocachers to say thank you to others who supported the site by paying for premium memberships. Secondly, this happened when some of the earliest incidents involving cache pirates or cache maggots were being reported. These are people who signed up for a free account (or you didn't even need to sign up for an account then as you could see the coordinates without being logged in), and instead of finding caches and playing the game, would steal the caches or the contents and try to disrupt the game. The idea was that these maggots would not pay money to get the coordinates so showing the coordinates to only paying members provides some added security for your cache.

I'm going to bookmark this, and the next time I notice this question comes up, refer them to this post.

[toczygroszek]

WHY do they choose to do so?

 

Except better prevention from steal it's good idea for nanos in city centre where is space in logbook only for 30 logs; premium members are generally more experienced and don't ask you via email why they can't find puzzle cache at listed coordinates or don't take with them logbook, pencil or magnet as swap item; As owner you can see who and when was look at your cache page and probably more reasons.

 

But don't worry, in Europe only about 1% of caches are "Memebers Only"

[+cachensfun]

Why are some caches 'Members Only'?

 

What qualifies a cache to only be available to members?

 

Why aren't all caches open for everyone to find?

 

 

Note; by 'Member', I mean a Paying Subscriber of Geocaching.com

 

We never did like these. All of our caches are available to all Geocachers. We all started as tadpoles and it was said to find out that some caches were off limits to you. Just our thoughts

[GOF and Bacall]

I have no problems with Subscriber Only Caches on private property but on public property they are just wrong. In my Minneapolis City Parks the park lands are protected against unauthorized person charging for recreation by the "Obstructing free use" ordinance. I suspect that the "back door" method that allows Members to log Subscriber Only Caches is not a software error but is in place to provide an defense against such an ordinance, "we only charge for the information, anyone is free to find it and log it regardless of paying a fee".

 

Anoka County wrote into their ordinance that "Caches must be public, no member only or subscription caches." http://www.anokacountyparks.com/recreation/geocaching.html

 

While I am certain that the so called "back door" method is not an accident I doubt it is to protect against any such ordinance. If such an ordinance applied at all, and I have my doubts, it would be between the cache owner and the parks department. Groundspeak only offers a listing service. It is up to the cache owner to ensure that the cache they own is in compliance with local laws.

[+hukilaulau]

I know that the creator gets to choose, my question is this: WHY do they choose to do so?

Here are my reasons, most of them already stated by others:

1) I like looking at the audit logs

2) I want to encourage people to become paid members

3) It keeps them out of Geomate Jr. Not that I'm opposed to Geomate Jr.! I have one myself. But if people START caching with one, I'd like for them eventually to become paying members. Also, this may not be accurate but I am afraid that people who start caching with a Geo-J might tend be be a little careless as they have no great investment (financially or emotionally) in the game.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I have no problems with Subscriber Only Caches on private property but on public property they are just wrong. In my Minneapolis City Parks the park lands are protected against unauthorized person charging for recreation by the "Obstructing free use" ordinance. I suspect that the "back door" method that allows Members to log Subscriber Only Caches is not a software error but is in place to provide an defense against such an ordinance, "we only charge for the information, anyone is free to find it and log it regardless of paying a fee".

 

Anoka County wrote into their ordinance that "Caches must be public, no member only or subscription caches." http://www.anokacountyparks.com/recreation/geocaching.html

 

Ehhhhhm -- And just how is it that a PMO cache prevents somebody from using the park, or restricting its' use? I read the above quote as trying to turn an apple into an orange!

[+WIIarefamily]

I have started making all caches which could have TB's placed in them PMO caches. I have lost several TB's of my own, usually they were logged by someone who had less then 50 caches. I am happy that newbies try geocaching and I want to encourage the growth on the game but I also understand that some folks just borrow a gpsr from a friend, find a few caches and never go out again.

At least if someone has shelled out $30 for a membership they may decide to finish the year with a few finds. I know it is no guarantee but I want to do what I can to protect the TB's that are in my containers.

[+Arrow42]

In my area PMO caches are rare. I've only run into a half dozen.

 

Are they real common in your area? If not... just ignore them until you get premium membership (if you ever decide it's worth it).

An unpaid member doesn't need to ignore PMO caches. They don't show up in searches and its not like they are going to do a Pocket Query.

Actually, they do show up in searches.

 

I meant "ignore" in the classic sense of "pay no attention too."

[+popokiiti]

A couple of PMO caches that we have done have been on the cache owners' private property. Given that one cacher serves in the armed forces and his wife and kids could be on their own - a smart move. The other is in a cacher's back yard, accessed by a gate at the bottom of the garden. Although there are neighboring houses, who knows if anyone is home? In both these situations, I think PMO caches are fine. Also, it adds to the longevity of some caches, I believe....and was instrumental in me becoming a premium member.

[+flask]

the single most egregious cache maggot of which i know has a premium account.

 

he solves puzzles, doesn't mind long hikes, and carries bolt cutters.

 

PMO caches don't slow him down for a second.

 

the worst hazard to TBs is TB "hotels", so getting rid of them will help that cause a lot better than making caches PMO.

[+Isonzo Karst]

the worst hazard to TBs is TB "hotels"

 

amen

[Keystone]

When premium memberships were first offered in 2002 there were not that many perks that went along with it. It was basically "You get to support the website and will be the first to try out new features when they get added". There were no pocket queries, caches along routes, instant notifications, bookmark list, or even off-topic forum. I think you got to have an unlimited number on your watchlist (actually I think it was 5000 but that was "more caches than anyone would ever need") and could select a title for your forum posts. Later a mapping feature was added (long before the Google maps), and premium members could pan and zoom the maps. Suggestions from geocachers for premium features were solicited. One idea was to allow cachers to designate caches to be for premium members only. The idea served two purposes. First and foremost it was a way for geocachers to say thank you to others who supported the site by paying for premium memberships. Secondly, this happened when some of the earliest incidents involving cache pirates or cache maggots were being reported. These are people who signed up for a free account (or you didn't even need to sign up for an account then as you could see the coordinates without being logged in), and instead of finding caches and playing the game, would steal the caches or the contents and try to disrupt the game. The idea was that these maggots would not pay money to get the coordinates so showing the coordinates to only paying members provides some added security for your cache.

I'm going to bookmark this, and the next time I notice this question comes up, refer them to this post.

It's a good summary, as we would expect from Toz, but the post gives the impression that PMO's were added sometime after premium memberships were offered. Premium member only caches (initially nicknamed "mocaches" in the Forums) were actually one of the very first benefits. They predated customizable forum titles, for example. The explanation for why PMO caches were offered is entirely accurate.

[+tozainamboku]

It's a good summary, as we would expect from Toz, but the post gives the impression that PMO's were added sometime after premium memberships were offered. Premium member only caches (initially nicknamed "mocaches" in the Forums) were actually one of the very first benefits. They predated customizable forum titles, for example. The explanation for why PMO caches were offered is entirely accurate.

Thanks Keystone. I wasn't around when premium memberships were first offered. In fact I didn't start geocaching until the last month that charter memberships were offered and I didn't become a premium member until a day after charter memberships ended. I do recall that the list of premium features at the time was short and that the text about PMO caches said that this feature was offered because people asked for it. If it was in fact there from the start, there must have been some discussion in the forums about what the premium features should be. It sure seemed that this came from the community and not from Groundspeak.