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Hunter etiqutte (meaning the kind with guns)


Vartan84
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In our discussion we all felt a little peeved he had acted so rudely and that we deserved at least a minute or two to search around, so we made a quick attempt and then left.

 

Wandering the woods where hunters are active is never a good idea, much less so when the hunter apparently has anger management issues in the first place.

 

 

We were there for no more than 5 minutes total, so I don't believe we ruined the day for him. He had 7.5 hours to shoot something,

 

I'm not a hunter, but I know enough to realize that he did not have anywhere near 7.5 hours to shoot something. He probably had an hour at dawn, and was hoping for an hour at dusk. The daylight hours were basically spent waiting for that final hour.

 

it is a public park so everyone in it has equal right to be there.
Not something that I would argue about with an angry man holding a weapon.

 

His 7.5 hours of uninterrupted hobby patiently waiting silently up on that tree compared to our 5 minutes of interference is hardly anything in comparison.
Agreed.
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Wandering the woods where hunters are active is never a good idea, much less so when the hunter apparently has anger management issues in the first place.

 

Please, are you just trying to be a jerk here? How was I supposed to predict that a hunter was in the tree, let alone that he would be so irate? Are you just trying to be provocative? Are you implying that during the hunting months (which varies widely and is sometimes long depending on the species) no one else should even think about trying to enjoy a public park as well?

 

I'm not a hunter, but I know enough to realize that he did not have anywhere near 7.5 hours to shoot something. He probably had an hour at dawn, and was hoping for an hour at dusk. The daylight hours were basically spent waiting for that final hour.

 

Any hunters, does this hypothesis make any sense at all? You are seriously implying he sat in a tree ALL DAY waiting for dusk? Why couldn't he have just returned to his stand an hour before dusk? You are just trying to make us feel more guilty because we ruined this guy's entire day due to us happening to show up towards the end of the day.

 

Not something that I would argue about with an angry man holding a weapon.

 

I never argued. He started cursing at us from atop a tree because our walking around was crunching the leaves on the ground. We had no idea he was there and never argued. I was merely asking this question to cachers for their opinion.

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Just a quick observation that turns this around a bit: apparently, a local wildlife management bureau officer had an encounter with a less-than-cooperative geocacher on nearby wildlife management lands (subject to regulation by that agency). The officer encountered the cacher during an open big-game season (actually, several seasons were open: multiple species, multiple weapon types). The officer simply asked for some identification, and the purpose for their presence. Instead of what should have been a two minute there-you-go and thank-you-very much interaction, the cacher took some type of offense to the inquiry and started with the "I have as much right to be here as anyone" diatribe. Ultimately, the situation was cleared...however, the officer was bothered enough by the interaction to discuss it with his supervisor at a later time...a discussion which reportedly at one time strongly considered the possibility of seeking action by the Agency to close WMAs to geocaching activities due to the possible liabilities of interactions between hunting activities (which, above tax burden, pay a large portion of the Agency fundings) and geocachers (who, above tax burden, pay nothing to exercise their hobby there). It doesn't seem to have gone anywhere, but...

 

Just because you are right doesn't mean you are necessarily right...

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I'm not a hunter, but I know enough to realize that he did not have anywhere near 7.5 hours to shoot something. He probably had an hour at dawn, and was hoping for an hour at dusk. The daylight hours were basically spent waiting for that final hour.

 

Any hunters, does this hypothesis make any sense at all? You are seriously implying he sat in a tree ALL DAY waiting for dusk? Why couldn't he have just returned to his stand an hour before dusk? You are just trying to make us feel more guilty because we ruined this guy's entire day due to us happening to show up towards the end of the day.

 

 

That scenario is IMHO not at all unlikely, and makes perfect sense. I know quite a few hunters who would not exit and return later, just depending on the land, activity and habits of the animals in the area. Its quite believable.

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I was merely asking this question to cachers for their opinion.

 

and you're getting people's opinions.

 

don't ask for opinions you don't want.

 

What are you talking about? I was merely letting him know I never argued this point with the hunter, I was just asking this as a question to people here. You're random attack on me is totally non-sequitur and makes it seem like you just want an excuse to act rudely to me. If I can ask for people's opinions, and they can give me their opinions, doesn't mean they can give whatever opinion they want without recourse. If his opinion was that I went to that spot to specifically disturb the hunter and proceeded to run around screaming in order to scare off all the deer, than yes it is his opinion but I have the right to correct it.

If everyone just stated their opinion on what happened regardless of accuracy they could easily lead the discussion off track into the realm of misperception about the incident.

 

That scenario is IMHO not at all unlikely, and makes perfect sense. I know quite a few hunters who would not exit and return later, just depending on the land, activity and habits of the animals in the area. Its quite believable.

Why would they spend their entire day in the very uncomfortable position of up a tree during the long off-time period if they really were just there for dusk?

Edited by Vartan84
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Wandering the woods where hunters are active is never a good idea, much less so when the hunter apparently has anger management issues in the first place.

 

Please, are you just trying to be a jerk here? How was I supposed to predict that a hunter was in the tree, let alone that he would be so irate? Are you just trying to be provocative? Are you implying that during the hunting months (which varies widely and is sometimes long depending on the species) no one else should even think about trying to enjoy a public park as well?

 

 

No, I am not in the least trying to be a jerk! You could not know that a hunter was in the tree, up until the time he started to rant at you. At that point, I believe you should have simply left.

 

I try my best to stay away from public areas that allow hunting, during hunting season, as do most cachers that I know. If we must, we will wear blaze orange to minimize (but not eliminate) the odds of being accidentally shot. It happens every year.

 

By "arguing" with him, what I meant was that you were at least a bit confronational by returning stayinig and looking for the cache.

Edited by knowschad
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If he is a good hunter, there was no way you would have known he was there in the first place.

Apparently they didn't, until he started running his mouth. :laughing:

 

I'm not a hunter, but I know enough to realize that he did not have anywhere near 7.5 hours to shoot something. He probably had an hour at dawn, and was hoping for an hour at dusk. The daylight hours were basically spent waiting for that final hour.

 

Any hunters, does this hypothesis make any sense at all? You are seriously implying he sat in a tree ALL DAY waiting for dusk?

As an avid bowhunter of several decades, I think I'm qualified to address this:

To be successful in a bowhunt, I need to be within 40 yards of the critter I'm hunting, and that critter must have no idea I'm in the area. I accomplish this by getting into my stand during the critter's period of inactivity, which for the Sunshine State, means Noon. Once I'm up in my tree, the waiting game starts. My goal is to be utterly still, making no visible movement or noise till legal hunting time has passed. Generally this happens around 7:30...ish. If I have not succeeded, I start another waiting game, as I still don't want to alert the local herd to my presence. On a failed hunt, I'll generally see several deer, but they'll be out of range. Once the sun sets, I have to wait on them to meander out of the area before I make my descent. This can add at the minimum a couple hours to my time in the tree.

 

Not trying to make you feel bad, just hoping to educate you.

 

Your hunter was still a jerk.

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I'm not a hunter, but I know enough to realize that he did not have anywhere near 7.5 hours to shoot something. He probably had an hour at dawn, and was hoping for an hour at dusk. The daylight hours were basically spent waiting for that final hour.

 

Any hunters, does this hypothesis make any sense at all? You are seriously implying he sat in a tree ALL DAY waiting for dusk? Why couldn't he have just returned to his stand an hour before dusk? You are just trying to make us feel more guilty because we ruined this guy's entire day due to us happening to show up towards the end of the day.

 

Vartan -- staying in a stand all day does make sense to me as a hunter. Whitetail deer typically move in the morning and evening. Hunters often spend a great deal of time before the season scouting out bedding sites, feeding areas, and routes of travel, picking a spot to hunt that should give them the greatest chance of success. Some hunters will leave their stand around mid- to late-morning and return in the afternoon, since nothing is usually moving during that time. Others, however, know that each time you go into and out of a stand location is a chance to spread more evidence of your presence (scent, especially -- deer have excellent noses), or to bump a deer that has bedded down in an unexpected area or that is moving at an odd time. Also, sometimes a deer will move at an odd time that defies all of the "rules". So, they stay in their stand all day. Others stay there all day just because they like sitting in nature all day, and they are free from traffic, computers, video games, etc -- kind of the same reason some of us geocache all day (be it a numbers run or a quest for 1 particular cache). I myself often stay all day, for a combination of the stated reasons.

 

As a hunter, I think there is no excuse for the behavior of the individual you encountered. I do not consider them a sportsman at all.

 

As a geocacher, I have walked up on a hunter before -- it was during archery season, and he was in a climbing tree stand, approx. 20 feet up a tree, and we (myself and a buddy) were coming up from behind the tree. We got too engrossed in "following the arrow", and while not making a loud ruckus, were not looking too far ahead of us and were making some noise. When we got to about 100 feet away from GZ, we heard a subtle cough -- we stopped and started looking around -- we didn't see anything at first, but another subtle cough made us look up. There, in a tree about 100 feet away, was the hunter. We waved to him, letting him know we had seen him, and headed back out the way we came in, trying to as quiet as we could. This was about 2:30 or 3:00 in the afternoon -- no deer moving, most likely, but he was there 1st, and he was quiet and respectful as he got our attention, so we were respectful of him. Had we decided to continue our search, things could have been very different.

 

Please realize that you were very lucky when you returned a 2nd time -- you already knew this individual had a tendency for rage -- it's like going back to pet a dog that has already growled and nipped at you -- are you surprised when you are bitten? Again -- no excuses for his behavior, but he had already established his lack of emotional control.

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That scenario is IMHO not at all unlikely, and makes perfect sense. I know quite a few hunters who would not exit and return later, just depending on the land, activity and habits of the animals in the area. Its quite believable.

Why would they spend their entire day in the very uncomfortable position of up a tree during the long off-time period if they really were just there for dusk?

 

And why would you traipse miles into the woods looking for a hidden piece of tupperware with no intrinsic value?

 

Others have given good explanations as to why. If you don't participate in a given sport/activity, its hard to understand some of the practices...but that doesn't necessarily invalidate them.

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He is hunting in a CEMETARY. That is wrong in many different ways. Firstly, who to say the visitor isn't there to pay respects to a friend or relative. Secondly, unless this guy is a perfect shot, he could easily damage the headstones.

The only way he has the right to do what he did is if it is his family's private cemetary.

 

Sounds to me if he hadn't seen deer in 7 1/2 hours, he should change locations anyway.

 

I was wondering about that too. Though it seems from what the OP said about the location of the cache and the hunter to not be an issue.

"He was shooting down into a valley and we were on a hill behind him so we didn't walk through his line of fire either, nor presumably ruined any scent tracks which would keep deer away."

Sounds like the hunter was on the edge of the cemetery and would be shooting down hill and away from the cemetery. While the main part, (or all of??) the cemetery was uphill. Which makes sense since many old cemetery are atop hills, not down in valleys.

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I'm not a hunter, but I know enough to realize that he did not have anywhere near 7.5 hours to shoot something. He probably had an hour at dawn, and was hoping for an hour at dusk. The daylight hours were basically spent waiting for that final hour.

 

Any hunters, does this hypothesis make any sense at all? You are seriously implying he sat in a tree ALL DAY waiting for dusk? Why couldn't he have just returned to his stand an hour before dusk? You are just trying to make us feel more guilty because we ruined this guy's entire day due to us happening to show up towards the end of the day.

 

Vartan -- staying in a stand all day does make sense to me as a hunter. Whitetail deer typically move in the morning and evening. Hunters often spend a great deal of time before the season scouting out bedding sites, feeding areas, and routes of travel, picking a spot to hunt that should give them the greatest chance of success. Some hunters will leave their stand around mid- to late-morning and return in the afternoon, since nothing is usually moving during that time. Others, however, know that each time you go into and out of a stand location is a chance to spread more evidence of your presence (scent, especially -- deer have excellent noses), or to bump a deer that has bedded down in an unexpected area or that is moving at an odd time. Also, sometimes a deer will move at an odd time that defies all of the "rules". So, they stay in their stand all day. Others stay there all day just because they like sitting in nature all day, and they are free from traffic, computers, video games, etc -- kind of the same reason some of us geocache all day (be it a numbers run or a quest for 1 particular cache). I myself often stay all day, for a combination of the stated reasons.

 

As a hunter, I think there is no excuse for the behavior of the individual you encountered. I do not consider them a sportsman at all.

 

As a geocacher, I have walked up on a hunter before -- it was during archery season, and he was in a climbing tree stand, approx. 20 feet up a tree, and we (myself and a buddy) were coming up from behind the tree. We got too engrossed in "following the arrow", and while not making a loud ruckus, were not looking too far ahead of us and were making some noise. When we got to about 100 feet away from GZ, we heard a subtle cough -- we stopped and started looking around -- we didn't see anything at first, but another subtle cough made us look up. There, in a tree about 100 feet away, was the hunter. We waved to him, letting him know we had seen him, and headed back out the way we came in, trying to as quiet as we could. This was about 2:30 or 3:00 in the afternoon -- no deer moving, most likely, but he was there 1st, and he was quiet and respectful as he got our attention, so we were respectful of him. Had we decided to continue our search, things could have been very different.

 

Please realize that you were very lucky when you returned a 2nd time -- you already knew this individual had a tendency for rage -- it's like going back to pet a dog that has already growled and nipped at you -- are you surprised when you are bitten? Again -- no excuses for his behavior, but he had already established his lack of emotional control.

 

i totally agree with this!!!! you should have done this ho matter how rude the hunter was.

 

My hunting buddie actually sleeps in his tree stand just so he does not risk leaving his presance known to the game

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Sounds like the hunter was on the edge of the cemetery and would be shooting down hill and away from the cemetery. While the main part, (or all of??) the cemetery was uphill. Which makes sense since many old cemetery are atop hills, not down in valleys.

 

This is true. Actually it was not a large cemetery at all, just a small stone enclosure with graves from the early 1800s. The hunter was in a tree outside the stone wall and was aiming away from the graves and us.

 

And why would you traipse miles into the woods looking for a hidden piece of tupperware with no intrinsic value?

 

Others have given good explanations as to why. If you don't participate in a given sport/activity, its hard to understand some of the practices...but that doesn't necessarily invalidate them.

 

Actually it was only .5 miles from the parking coords :laughing:!!

With caching, while it does sound purpose to many you have the two things going for you of exercise from hiking or just plain enjoyment of hiking along with the fun of a treasure hunt. So I think objectively there is more to geocaching on the whole than sitting in a tree for seven hours waiting for a small window to get the perfect shot at an animal, but I have to thank mndvs737 for an excellent explanation and post for helping us all understand the hobby and practices better.

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Just to clarify why a bowhunter would be in the stand all day. The deer in Pennsylvania are now in the peak of the rut - the breeding season. The bucks are moving all day at this time in search of receptive does. At the same time, being very single-minded, they are much less wary. I agree he was wrong in his language, but you should have left, not just moved a short distance away.

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If he is a good hunter, there was no way you would have known he was there in the first place.

Apparently they didn't, until he started running his mouth. :rolleyes:

 

I'm not a hunter, but I know enough to realize that he did not have anywhere near 7.5 hours to shoot something. He probably had an hour at dawn, and was hoping for an hour at dusk. The daylight hours were basically spent waiting for that final hour.

 

Any hunters, does this hypothesis make any sense at all? You are seriously implying he sat in a tree ALL DAY waiting for dusk?

As an avid bowhunter of several decades, I think I'm qualified to address this:

To be successful in a bowhunt, I need to be within 40 yards of the critter I'm hunting, and that critter must have no idea I'm in the area. I accomplish this by getting into my stand during the critter's period of inactivity, which for the Sunshine State, means Noon. Once I'm up in my tree, the waiting game starts. My goal is to be utterly still, making no visible movement or noise till legal hunting time has passed. Generally this happens around 7:30...ish. If I have not succeeded, I start another waiting game, as I still don't want to alert the local herd to my presence. On a failed hunt, I'll generally see several deer, but they'll be out of range. Once the sun sets, I have to wait on them to meander out of the area before I make my descent. This can add at the minimum a couple hours to my time in the tree.

 

Not trying to make you feel bad, just hoping to educate you.

 

Your hunter was still a jerk.

That is exactly right CR! :ph34r: I was an avid bowhunter for years too. It is relaxing, educational and a big thrill at times. You need to learn quite a bit to be successful. So the sport is not just about some drunk morons sitting up in trees like some people have stated in this thread. :laughing: The best time to hunt is during the rut. Bucks will chase does all day long during the rut. So it is very likely that many bowhunters are going to be out many hours during that time. By the way that time is now for whitetail!
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Last weekend I was out and there were a lot of bow hunters in the same park.

All of the ones I saw were in trees off trail. Way off trail. I'm guessing they were smart enough to set up away from where other park users would be frequenting. The park is used heavily by mountain bikers, joggers and hikers as it is right outside the city.

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You see, my theory is that hunting goes hand in hand with heavy drinking. A human can be, and has been, mistaken for a deer or even elk. When it comes right down to it, the hunter would be wrong to shoot you but it won't matter if he is a good shot and you are dead.

 

Not only am I a geocacher, but I'm a hunter as well and I take exception to your theory. Unless you have some empirical knowledge of the habits of all hunters across the United States, I would say your opinion is wholly based in gross ignorance. Now, I can't speak to the habits of the hunters in your part of the country, but as far as me and the people I hunt with, IF alcohol is part of the equation, it won't happen until AFTER the hunting day is done! I, and the people I hunt with, are conscientious and responsible. Those hunters who would shoot without clearly identifying their target are simply irresponsible, careless, and stupid! But make no mistake about it: "They are the exception and NOT the rule!" Don't let your prejudices paint all hunters with such a wide brush.

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You see, my theory is that hunting can go hand in hand with heavy drinking. A human can be, and has been, mistaken for a deer or even elk. When it comes right down to it, the hunter would be wrong to shoot you but it won't matter if he is a good shot and you are dead.

 

Not only am I a geocacher, but I'm a hunter as well and I take exception to your theory. Unless you have some empirical knowledge of the habits of all hunters across the United States, I would say your opinion is wholly based in gross ignorance. Now, I can't speak to the habits of the hunters in your part of the country, but as far as me and the people I hunt with, IF alcohol is part of the equation, it won't happen until AFTER the hunting day is done! I, and the people I hunt with, are conscientious and responsible. Those hunters who would shoot without clearly identifying their target are simply irresponsible, careless, and stupid! But make no mistake about it: "They are the exception and NOT the rule!" Don't let your prejudices paint all hunters with such a wide brush.

 

And I would say your reply is based on a complete lack of a sense of humor.

I can assure you that I am neither ignorant, nor do I possess empirical knowledge of hunting and the habits of all hunters.

 

What I should have done was inserted the word "can" as I have above to head off all possibilities of replies like yours (but then someone else would find offense somehow).

 

Enjoy yourself when you go out murdering defenseless animals while they attempt to survive... I will hold the fort down.

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You see, my theory is that hunting can go hand in hand with heavy drinking. A human can be, and has been, mistaken for a deer or even elk. When it comes right down to it, the hunter would be wrong to shoot you but it won't matter if he is a good shot and you are dead.

 

Not only am I a geocacher, but I'm a hunter as well and I take exception to your theory. Unless you have some empirical knowledge of the habits of all hunters across the United States, I would say your opinion is wholly based in gross ignorance. Now, I can't speak to the habits of the hunters in your part of the country, but as far as me and the people I hunt with, IF alcohol is part of the equation, it won't happen until AFTER the hunting day is done! I, and the people I hunt with, are conscientious and responsible. Those hunters who would shoot without clearly identifying their target are simply irresponsible, careless, and stupid! But make no mistake about it: "They are the exception and NOT the rule!" Don't let your prejudices paint all hunters with such a wide brush.

 

And I would say your reply is based on a complete lack of a sense of humor.

I can assure you that I am neither ignorant, nor do I possess empirical knowledge of hunting and the habits of all hunters.

 

What I should have done was inserted the word "can" as I have above to head off all possibilities of replies like yours (but then someone else would find offense somehow).

 

Enjoy yourself when you go out murdering defenseless animals while they attempt to survive... I will hold the fort down.

Bittsen, are your a vegan?

If not then you are murdering defenseless animals.

Oh you can go ahead and try to justify it by saying your not the one killing them, but if meat you eat is payed for then effectively your putting a contract out on the animals head and well setting a hit is more despicable than doing the deed yourself.

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Bittsen, are your a vegan?

If not then you are murdering defenseless animals.

Oh you can go ahead and try to justify it by saying your not the one killing them, but if meat you eat is payed for then effectively your putting a contract out on the animals head and well setting a hit is more despicable than doing the deed yourself.

 

The animals I eat aren't trying to eek out a survival. They are given their food.

I did not say, nor did I imply, that I was against killing animals for food.

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Bittsen, are your a vegan?

If not then you are murdering defenseless animals.

Oh you can go ahead and try to justify it by saying your not the one killing them, but if meat you eat is payed for then effectively your putting a contract out on the animals head and well setting a hit is more despicable than doing the deed yourself.

 

The animals I eat aren't trying to eek out a survival. They are given their food.

I did not say, nor did I imply, that I was against killing animals for food.

Before my wife banned me from hunting I ate my kills.

Animals that are killed for food want to live just as much as wild animals, so what makes the wild ones so much more deserving of life?

Maybe you didn't consider the we (humans) have wiped out or drastically reduced the predator populations, so we need to take their place to help keep the deer and other animals healthy.

Don't know about you but there are places I absolutely don't want to see one of these at.

40921132.jpg

Not just for the safety of people but for it's own safety.

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Bittsen, are your a vegan?

If not then you are murdering defenseless animals.

Oh you can go ahead and try to justify it by saying your not the one killing them, but if meat you eat is payed for then effectively your putting a contract out on the animals head and well setting a hit is more despicable than doing the deed yourself.

 

The animals I eat aren't trying to eek out a survival. They are given their food.

I did not say, nor did I imply, that I was against killing animals for food.

 

 

Here Kitty Kitty :lol:

i prefer to eat game meat rather than store bought meat for a few reasons

 

1 no steroids

 

2 I believe that the animal died and lived a much better life than that of ANY store bought meat

3 even if the hunter makes a bad shot and does not kill the animal with one shot, the animal will panic of course but will not have the same panic as those that are on the killing floor of a slaughter house were there is the scent of death all around and your seeing the poor animals getting killed ahead of you.

4 just another note that for free range chickens they only have to let the chickens run out side for 15 Min's a day and the rest of the time they are locked up

 

ps great pic of a Kitty did you take it

Edited by TheBeast420
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Here is another reason why cachers should stay out of hunting areas.

 

Not a cacher, but accidents happen

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2...leeping_te.html

 

BTW, read the last line. Authorities believe alcohol was a factor.

What does that have to do with any of this!!! First of all it sounds like they were not hunting and it was not intentional so maybe they were drinking after the hunt and being redneck hillbillies they forgot to unload their firearms and they went off.

 

PLUS it was at a private ranch NOT out in the middle of nowhere so there is not going to be that many hunters there at all

Edited by TheBeast420
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Vartan84:

 

Thank you for acknowledging mndvs737 "for an excellent explanation and post for helping us all understand the hobby and practices better."

 

He would know better of the habits and customs of hunting whitetail than I would, though I have read much about them, because he lives where that species of deer lives.

 

I said;

It seems that you are angry that the hunter was in your space also.

 

Because you said:

Serves him right, the hunter didn't deserve to have them

 

That seemed to me to be a statement made out of anger, not being able to hear tone inflection over the forum page. I may have viewed that statement different had I heard and seen you speak it.

 

QUOTE(ironman114 @ Nov 8 2009, 03:28 PM) *

 

The hunter may have not deserved the deer you saw but then I would say you didn't deserve the cache either

 

This is more than a little harsh treatment of the situation in my opinion.

 

It may seem hash to you but you said:

 

so we retreated..............We decided a few minutes later to make another attempt at GZ

 

This does imply that you left the area not merely:

we merely took a few steps back to gather around out of earshot and discuss what was happening.

 

I will say hiking satisfies my soul, hunting satisfies my belly and geocaching satisfies my desire to seek what has not been found.

 

All three satisfy my need for exercise!!!

 

Happy hunting (whatever it is you disire to hunt).

Edited by ironman114
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You see, my theory is that hunting can go hand in hand with heavy drinking. A human can be, and has been, mistaken for a deer or even elk. When it comes right down to it, the hunter would be wrong to shoot you but it won't matter if he is a good shot and you are dead.

 

Not only am I a geocacher, but I'm a hunter as well and I take exception to your theory. Unless you have some empirical knowledge of the habits of all hunters across the United States, I would say your opinion is wholly based in gross ignorance. Now, I can't speak to the habits of the hunters in your part of the country, but as far as me and the people I hunt with, IF alcohol is part of the equation, it won't happen until AFTER the hunting day is done! I, and the people I hunt with, are conscientious and responsible. Those hunters who would shoot without clearly identifying their target are simply irresponsible, careless, and stupid! But make no mistake about it: "They are the exception and NOT the rule!" Don't let your prejudices paint all hunters with such a wide brush.

 

And I would say your reply is based on a complete lack of a sense of humor.

I can assure you that I am neither ignorant, nor do I possess empirical knowledge of hunting and the habits of all hunters.

 

What I should have done was inserted the word "can" as I have above to head off all possibilities of replies like yours (but then someone else would find offense somehow).

 

Enjoy yourself when you go out murdering defenseless animals while they attempt to survive... I will hold the fort down.

 

Typical! Rather than defend the position you have taken in this forum, you've chosen to attack the person who disagrees with your position. :lol:

 

If all you can do is sling mud instead of having a reasoned, intellegent conversation, then any further discussion with you would be an act of futility. I prefer an HONEST debate rather than someone spewing quips for their own amusement.

Edited by rocketsteve
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I'm not a hunter, but I know enough to realize that he did not have anywhere near 7.5 hours to shoot something. He probably had an hour at dawn, and was hoping for an hour at dusk. The daylight hours were basically spent waiting for that final hour.

 

Any hunters, does this hypothesis make any sense at all? You are seriously implying he sat in a tree ALL DAY waiting for dusk? Why couldn't he have just returned to his stand an hour before dusk? You are just trying to make us feel more guilty because we ruined this guy's entire day due to us happening to show up towards the end of the day.

 

 

That scenario is IMHO not at all unlikely, and makes perfect sense. I know quite a few hunters who would not exit and return later, just depending on the land, activity and habits of the animals in the area. Its quite believable.

 

I'm not a hunter so I don't know the protocol for using a tree stand, but a reasonable possibility was that the hunter arrived early in the morning to occupy the stand during the prime morning time, then rather than leave and have another hunter "claim" the stand during the day he stayed there all day so that he could hunt from it during the prime hunting time in the evening.

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He is hunting in a CEMETARY. That is wrong in many different ways. Firstly, who to say the visitor isn't there to pay respects to a friend or relative. Secondly, unless this guy is a perfect shot, he could easily damage the headstones.

 

The only way he has the right to do what he did is if it is his family's private cemetary.

 

Sounds to me if he hadn't seen deer in 7 1/2 hours, he should change locations anyway.

 

ok first of all if he is hunting deer and using a crossbow he cant really miss... and im not sure what state this is in but in most states your not even allowed to hunt with a crossbow unless you are handicapped for example in illinois were i live you cant hunt with a crossbow unless your handicapped. and i also hunt if i were hunting and saw some people searching for something i would be wondering what they were searching for and probably help. that guy had no reason to be swearing... hunting is supposed to be fun i can go hunting and not shoot once and have a blast . the people who go hunting and start freaking out like that should not be allowed to hunt because i would have gotten really nervous if some guy with a cross bow was swearing about me. BUT WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE WAS WHENT AROUND THE EDGES OF THIS CEMETARY AND TINKLED BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BLOWN ANY CHANCE THE GUY WOULD HAVE AT GETTING A DEER FOR 2 DAYS AND HE WOULD HAVE TO MOVE SPOTS.

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and i would like to add that i hunt waterfowl, coyote, and dove sometimes more than that but i do not eat the coyote i just kill them because they are a neusence and i do eat the dove and waterfowl. and for those of you saying us hunters are killing innocent animals and that we are drinking and hunting ect. yes we are killing innocent animals BUT THERE DELICIOUS and almost no hunters drink when they hunt unless there idiots because if your a hunter you know that DNR is always close by and for those who dont know DNR is the department of natural resources (the people who ticket and arrest hunters for doing illegal things) but back to my point if your against animal hunting dont go complaining in this form about how we are bad YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE ONE OF US TO NOT WANT TO HUNT ANYMORE. :lol::anicute::anibad::):D BY THE WAY WEAR A FLARE ORANGE HAT OR SHIRT OR SOMETHING TO DRASTICALLY REDUCE YOUR CHANCES OF GETTING SHOT. AND IF YOU KNOW YOUR GOING IN A HUNTING ZONE MAKE SURE YOU WEAR FLARE ORANGE OR YELLOW OR GREEN MOST BRIGHT NEON COLORS WILL WORK BUT FLARE ORANGE IS THE BEST

Edited by blobingob
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Cerberus1 brought up some good & valid points. Another that I would offer you is when you go to a SGL parking area, look around to see if there are any other vehicles parked there. Great indication as there maybe a hunter or hunters in the general area.

 

Along with seriously please wear the blaze orange as required by the PAGC at all times while in the SGLs. As for a cemetery being in a SGL, I never that there were any at all, until I started geocaching a few years back. When I did a cache called the Forgotten War? GC11RHH, the final is on the edge of SGL 199 & a very old cemetery with approx "20 residents" from the war of 1812.

 

It was much to my surprise to find a cemetery within the SGLs with the closest parking area for the SGLs approx 1/4 mile away. (Not that you can not park on the side of the road & grab the final real quick.) This is 1 of 2 old cemeteries that I have found to be within the SGLs of at least NW Pa.

 

IMHO, if you see a hunter in the area, walk away & come back later for the cache (Most likely on a sunday when hunting isnot allowed for SGLs in Pa.).

Living in a State where kids have off from school the first day of deer season, you need a little common sense...

 

In PA game lands, we usually temp archive our caches during the VERY busy rifle deer season (just a few weeks) and ask that folks use common sense during the others.

Game lands are paid for with Hunter's license fees and NOT by the State. Caching is an "other" use in them.

At nearly all parking areas, there's signs telling you to wear blaze orange - for a reason.

 

Most PA State parks where hunting is allowed will have "safety zone" signs for those areas where hunters can't go. These areas are usually near cemetaries, historic structures, or other spots where the public would congregate.

Before you head into the woods, take a little time to read the signs - they could save your bacon.

 

CJ and I usually hunt WHILE caching in areas that allow hunting. We not only get to grab a cache and enjoy this perfect part of the year to be outdoors, but "might" have a little something for the table later. :lol:

 

Try to have SOMETHING that's blaze orange on you (cheapy blaze "CITO" vests are great) when out during the big-game times. Go to the PA Game Commissions's website if you're unsure of dates.

Cache safe.

Edited by emtfire10
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as for scaring away "his" deer, while sometimes your presence might drive a deer away from a hunter, you are just as likely to drive a deer toward a hunter.

 

it's all a crapshoot.

Yup, when I've been on a stand for a few hours and nothing is moving I would love to have folks start stirring up the woods!

 

Your hunter incident was unpleasant, mine could have been fatal!

 

In January 2004 I was going after a cache in the woods along an abandoned railroad line, walking along with my head up my *** without a thought to it being hunting season, despite having been a hunter for over 40 years.

 

I fell. Being one-legged and on crutches I fall in the woods quite often, but this was different... I went down hard, like my crutch had been knocked out from under me, and at the moment I hit the ground I heard a gunshot! I started hollering, no reply. I sat up and my aluminum crutch was bent, a perfect dimple in it where his rifle bullet struck the crutch!

 

I guessed that he had to have been ~200 yards away through light foliage and just shooting at movement without identifying a target. The hunter left the area without ever responding... to this day he doesn't know if he left me dead in the woods or not.

 

Wear hunter orange. Remember that it's not just for deer season... in Alabama from the opening of squirrel season to the end of turkey season is five months and folks may be in the woods at any time with rifles. Not counting the poachers who hunt year-round for all those antlers you see restaurants decorated with.

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I am sure a question has been asked about this in the past, but since the words like "hunter" are so common here on the geocaching board it is too hard to find it via the search. I'd like to give my personal experience from today and see what everyone thinks.

There is a small colonial cemetery in the woods of a state park which I have been wanting to find for years, and turns out a cache is there which I have been eagerly awaiting to do. A friend was in town who had never cached so we went and found our way to ground zero. We made it to GZ and I started to enjoy reading the signs and graves when suddenly we started hearing a thick barrage of cursing. I looked up to see a hunter up in a tree about 20 feet away and he was absolutely livid. In between f-words we could hear him whisper-yelling that he had been out there for 7 and a half hours trying a shoot deer (no idea if he had ever gotten one or not). That's the only part I actually understood because he was essentially screaming in a whisper, but assume the rest of it was how we were ruining it/scaring off deer/whatever with our presence and the leaves crunching under our feet. The guy was holding a crossbow so we retreated, but were really angry to have gone all that way to have this guy chase us away.

My question is what is caching etiquette in regards to hunters, I mean real hunters with guns, not geohunters. On our way to the cache we saw signs saying we were in "SAFE" zones where hunters were not allowed, but presumably the cache itself was in an area of the park where hunting is allowed.

I have never hunted but I felt that as we were in a state park we had the right to be there as much as that hunter. I don't think he had the right to chase us off like that, and of course the fact he started cursing at us without talking anything over with us or anything, just jumped right into livid mode, is beside the point. I know he was wrong there, but my question is do hunters with guns have some sort of extra right which trumps geocachers right to find caches in the same park at that time? Of course if you are just fooling around there or purposely trying to scare off the deer that's one thing, but we were just trying to be in and out.

We decided a few minutes later to make another attempt at GZ, unfortunately I couldn't remember the clue to make it quick. We walked around for a couple minutes searching as quietly as we could, but the hunter was still up there in the tree cursing again. This time he got out a cell phone and called someone (a hunting partner we think) cursing profusely about the kids who were walking around below ruining everything. The sun was about to set and so frankly he should have been wrapping things up anyway. We decided the barraging of quiet curses was just not worth it and had to give up on the geocache, also seeing as he had a crossbow, was furious, and rather unhinged we didn't want to stay around to see what he might do with it. We got back to our car after the sun had set to see at least 6 deer around our car in the parking lot. Serves him right, the hunter didn't deserve to have them.

 

I realize alot of this has likely been repeated many times within this forum but here is my 2 cents.

 

1. If you were within a SAFE ZONE, the hunter was in violation of PGC Laws. Tell the State Park manager about this incident.

 

2. This hunter was indeed showing poor sportsmanship and should have handled this situation better

 

3. Even if he is in violation of laws never argue with someone with a loaded firearm!

 

4. If you are in DCNR land you do have equal right in recreation but you should consider that hunting certain species can only occur during certain seasons, times, and days. Try at all time to avoid these hunting season so that you and the hunters can both enjoy their sports. (Sundays are a good day to go caching in the woods)

 

5. Always wear blaze orange when on or near lands that are open to hunting (In PA if its not a residential area its very possible that someone may be hunting that land)

 

6. In general, hunters give each other space when pursuing game and cachers should respect that same guideline. Exception to the rule is if you are on a MARKED trail or road open to the public, in that case you do have the right to travel on it.

 

7. Finally consider that some people are just as passionate about hunting, just as we are as cachers. They may have done a lot of work to prepare for this hunting trip and are just frustrated when a scenario like the one you explain occurs. IF they engage you in conversation be apologetic explain that you are geocaching and had no intention of interrupting their trip. At this point if you two can engage in a more civilized discussion try to work things out. IF conversation continues to heat up apologize again and leave immediately (come back when hunting season is not in aka Sunday).

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In some states, it is illegal to harass hunters. Whether or not you were harassing him in the eyes of the law, is not for me to say. ...

 

I'll say it then. Harrassment is intensional. While there are precautions one should take in dress etc. when out in the boonies in hunting season, Hunting season doesn't stop all other recreational activites from taking place. Nor should it.

 

If you are participating in a activity and inadvertantly cross paths with a hunter, that's just the risk of doing business as a hunter. Yes it would be annoying to have your game scared away (not that the hunter actually saw any...) even on accident, but that's life.

 

Now if PETA is out there doing a systematic sweep to scare wildlife away, or assinging your own personal hunter stalker, that's harassment.

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You see, my theory is that hunting goes hand in hand with heavy drinking. A human can be, and has been, mistaken for a deer or even elk. When it comes right down to it, the hunter would be wrong to shoot you but it won't matter if he is a good shot and you are dead.

 

Not only am I a geocacher, but I'm a hunter as well and I take exception to your theory. Unless you have some empirical knowledge of the habits of all hunters across the United States, I would say your opinion is wholly based in gross ignorance. Now, I can't speak to the habits of the hunters in your part of the country, but as far as me and the people I hunt with, IF alcohol is part of the equation, it won't happen until AFTER the hunting day is done! I, and the people I hunt with, are conscientious and responsible. Those hunters who would shoot without clearly identifying their target are simply irresponsible, careless, and stupid! But make no mistake about it: "They are the exception and NOT the rule!" Don't let your prejudices paint all hunters with such a wide brush.

 

You and I both know that not all hunters are the sharpest tools. Every activity has the few morons who screw it up for the rest of us. Hunting...you really can't afford the morons. Most of us who have been out in the world can tell you a moron story.

 

Mine was a hunter sighting in his rifle. We were on a back road headed for a cache. "BLAM" a shot rings out. The rock and dirt along the hillside start sluffing where the bullet hit. They were shooting across the road as we drove up.

 

I have my own moron moment that I'll admit to having and even being ashamed of, but the details will have to wait for the other end of it to tell in the forums or a beer when we aren't hunting.

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He is hunting in a CEMETARY. That is wrong in many different ways. Firstly, who to say the visitor isn't there to pay respects to a friend or relative. Secondly, unless this guy is a perfect shot, he could easily damage the headstones.

 

The only way he has the right to do what he did is if it is his family's private cemetary.

 

Sounds to me if he hadn't seen deer in 7 1/2 hours, he should change locations anyway.

 

so then by your reasoning a cache in the cemetery would also be wrong.

 

Not at all. Caching would be considered passive use. Hunting would not.

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You see, my theory is that hunting goes hand in hand with heavy drinking. A human can be, and has been, mistaken for a deer or even elk. When it comes right down to it, the hunter would be wrong to shoot you but it won't matter if he is a good shot and you are dead.

 

Not only am I a geocacher, but I'm a hunter as well and I take exception to your theory. Unless you have some empirical knowledge of the habits of all hunters across the United States, I would say your opinion is wholly based in gross ignorance. Now, I can't speak to the habits of the hunters in your part of the country, but as far as me and the people I hunt with, IF alcohol is part of the equation, it won't happen until AFTER the hunting day is done! I, and the people I hunt with, are conscientious and responsible. Those hunters who would shoot without clearly identifying their target are simply irresponsible, careless, and stupid! But make no mistake about it: "They are the exception and NOT the rule!" Don't let your prejudices paint all hunters with such a wide brush.

 

You and I both know that not all hunters are the sharpest tools. Every activity has the few morons who screw it up for the rest of us. Hunting...you really can't afford the morons. Most of us who have been out in the world can tell you a moron story.

 

Mine was a hunter sighting in his rifle. We were on a back road headed for a cache. "BLAM" a shot rings out. The rock and dirt along the hillside start sluffing where the bullet hit. They were shooting across the road as we drove up.

 

I have my own moron moment that I'll admit to having and even being ashamed of, but the details will have to wait for the other end of it to tell in the forums or a beer when we aren't hunting.

Yes, there are morons in every group. When I was hunting in Wisconsin there were on average 700,000 hunters out during gun hunting week. On average 40 got shot (0.0057%) and a couple died. Most of those 40 shot themselves while loading their guns or resting their guns on their foot with the safety off. Further proof of Darwin's theory. The interesting stat is that hunters remove on average 300,000 deer from the population to keep the population at a size that can survive. In other words even there was no hunting most of the 300,000 would starve to death during the long winter. So instead of letting the deer die and rot they are turned into useful food. Not many people know that!

 

Another interesting tidbit that I learned. When you are driving at night and you see a deer on the side of the road. The deer will often run right out in front of you. This can happen because when the deer sees your car coming, it will quickly turn to run away. However, as soon as it turns, it sees it's own large and scary shadow. This frightens the deer so badly because it is close that they immediately run away from it, right in front of your car! :) So when you approach a deer on the side of the road at night, assume they are going to run right in front of you, and slow way down to anticipate this...

Edited by TrailGators
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You see, my theory is that hunting goes hand in hand with heavy drinking. A human can be, and has been, mistaken for a deer or even elk. When it comes right down to it, the hunter would be wrong to shoot you but it won't matter if he is a good shot and you are dead.

 

Not only am I a geocacher, but I'm a hunter as well and I take exception to your theory. Unless you have some empirical knowledge of the habits of all hunters across the United States, I would say your opinion is wholly based in gross ignorance. Now, I can't speak to the habits of the hunters in your part of the country, but as far as me and the people I hunt with, IF alcohol is part of the equation, it won't happen until AFTER the hunting day is done! I, and the people I hunt with, are conscientious and responsible. Those hunters who would shoot without clearly identifying their target are simply irresponsible, careless, and stupid! But make no mistake about it: "They are the exception and NOT the rule!" Don't let your prejudices paint all hunters with such a wide brush.

 

You and I both know that not all hunters are the sharpest tools. Every activity has the few morons who screw it up for the rest of us. Hunting...you really can't afford the morons. Most of us who have been out in the world can tell you a moron story.

 

Mine was a hunter sighting in his rifle. We were on a back road headed for a cache. "BLAM" a shot rings out. The rock and dirt along the hillside start sluffing where the bullet hit. They were shooting across the road as we drove up.

 

I have my own moron moment that I'll admit to having and even being ashamed of, but the details will have to wait for the other end of it to tell in the forums or a beer when we aren't hunting.

 

Believe me, I understand the "Moron Factor". I was shot by a moron while my brother and I were spring turkey hunting around central Florida in 1994. That encounter nearly cost me my life, but my brother's quick action was key to my survival, and as for the guy who shot me, he IS a moron, but he wasn't drunk.

 

Even though this idiot almost killed me, I haven't let it change the fact that I love to be out in the woods and I still love to hunt. As I stated in my earlier posting, most of the hunters I know are responsible and ethical people, and this guy was a world-class bonehead! This is a classic case of: "The exception rather than the rule".

 

Hunters should be aware of the increased possibility of intrusions by geocachers on some of the "more-open-to-the-public" lands where they hunt. If geocachers come across a hunter's setup, the should back out quickly and quietly, and if the hunter notices the geocachers first, he/she should make contact with the geocacher and let them know that he/she is hunting in that particular area. Anybody who flies off the handle because some geocacher walks into their hunting setup needs to get a grip on themselves. Yeah, the game may get spooked and run away, but that's one of the things you must deal with when you hunt public lands.

Edited by rocketsteve
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As far as rights go, all bets are off when it's deer season. Rights don't mean anything if you run across a shoot-anything-that-moves type and end up dead.

 

I went caching in a conservation area early last month. The thought didn't even cross my mind that deer season was in session until I started noticing several paths into fields. When I came out of the woods, I checked an information station that turned out to be the hunters' log book. Some people had checked in the day before, but no one was checked in the day I was there(it had been raining earlier in the day). I'm probably done cachining in the woods until the season is over.

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As far as rights go, all bets are off when it's deer season. Rights don't mean anything if you run across a shoot-anything-that-moves type and end up dead.

 

I went caching in a conservation area early last month. The thought didn't even cross my mind that deer season was in session until I started noticing several paths into fields. When I came out of the woods, I checked an information station that turned out to be the hunters' log book. Some people had checked in the day before, but no one was checked in the day I was there(it had been raining earlier in the day). I'm probably done cachining in the woods until the season is over.

 

I don't know what part of the country you live in, but most states require you to wear a minimum of 500 square inches of "blaze orange" clothing when you are on public hunting lands during deer season. Any sporting goods store will carry lightweight vests that will meet this requirement and wearing the blaze will help to insure that you are seen by everybody else. Even the "shoot-anything-that-moves" type will not be stupid enough to shoot someone be-bopping through the woods while wearing a bright orange vest.

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...Believe me, I understand the "Moron Factor". I was shot by a moron while my brother and I were spring turkey hunting around central Florida in 1994. That encounter nearly cost me my life, but my brother's quick action was key to my survival, and as for the guy who shot me, he IS a moron, but he wasn't drunk.

 

Even though this idiot almost killed me, I haven't let it change the fact that I love to be out in the woods and I still love to hunt. As I stated in my earlier posting, most of the hunters I know are responsible and ethical people, and this guy was a world-class bonehead! This is a classic case of: "The exception rather than the rule"....

 

Nice. Enough said.

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I don't know what part of the country you live in, but most states require you to wear a minimum of 500 square inches of "blaze orange" clothing when you are on public hunting lands during deer season. Any sporting goods store will carry lightweight vests that will meet this requirement and wearing the blaze will help to insure that you are seen by everybody else. Even the "shoot-anything-that-moves" type will not be stupid enough to shoot someone be-bopping through the woods while wearing a bright orange vest.

 

Unless the hunter is colorblind.

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most states require you to wear a minimum of 500 square inches of "blaze orange" clothing when you are on public hunting lands during deer season.

A bit off topic, but this post reminds me of a humorous incident I had with a fairly new Florida Fish & Wildlife officer. I was doing what I call slip hunting, which involves walking the woods at a snail's pace, using the natural camo offered by the land, hoping to come across a critter for my dinner table. This was during general gun season. The F&W guy asked me why I wasn't wearing 500 square inches of blaze orange. I told him because Florida law doesn't require it. He started writing me a ticket, when his partner arrived. I had worked with the partner in a LEO capacity in the past, so he asked what was going on. I told him I was hog hunting, and that the statute in question only applies to those folks hunting deer, or accompanying folks hunting deer. He got a chuckle out of my reply and told the new guy to tear up the ticket. :)

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most states require you to wear a minimum of 500 square inches of "blaze orange" clothing when you are on public hunting lands during deer season.

A bit off topic, but this post reminds me of a humorous incident I had with a fairly new Florida Fish & Wildlife officer. I was doing what I call slip hunting, which involves walking the woods at a snail's pace, using the natural camo offered by the land, hoping to come across a critter for my dinner table. This was during general gun season. The F&W guy asked me why I wasn't wearing 500 square inches of blaze orange. I told him because Florida law doesn't require it. He started writing me a ticket, when his partner arrived. I had worked with the partner in a LEO capacity in the past, so he asked what was going on. I told him I was hog hunting, and that the statute in question only applies to those folks hunting deer, or accompanying folks hunting deer. He got a chuckle out of my reply and told the new guy to tear up the ticket. :)

When I enlisted in the Navy my first duty station after boot camp was San Diego CA. I drove my '34 Ford 3-window coupe out there which didn't have room for my guns, so Dad shipped them to me after I got settled in.

 

Anxious to find somewhere to hunt in this strange open flat land I encountered a Wildlife Service (or whatever they call 'em in CA) officer at a gas station and asked him about the local hunting.

 

He told me that he'd hunted the previous weekend but had only gotten a few 'brush shots'. I asked what he meant and he said "I could see the brush moving and shot into it but never found anything." I swear that those were his words. I shipped my guns back to Alabama and never went hunting on the left coast in the ten years I was out there!

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most states require you to wear a minimum of 500 square inches of "blaze orange" clothing when you are on public hunting lands during deer season.

A bit off topic, but this post reminds me of a humorous incident I had with a fairly new Florida Fish & Wildlife officer. I was doing what I call slip hunting, which involves walking the woods at a snail's pace, using the natural camo offered by the land, hoping to come across a critter for my dinner table. This was during general gun season. The F&W guy asked me why I wasn't wearing 500 square inches of blaze orange. I told him because Florida law doesn't require it. He started writing me a ticket, when his partner arrived. I had worked with the partner in a LEO capacity in the past, so he asked what was going on. I told him I was hog hunting, and that the statute in question only applies to those folks hunting deer, or accompanying folks hunting deer. He got a chuckle out of my reply and told the new guy to tear up the ticket. :)

 

I'm not sure if I'd call you a "hunting god", but I'd definitely say you've got a substantial pair of nuggets. :angry:

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I will be out Saturday, predawn, setting up in the woods. Woe be to anyone that intrudes on my hunt. Of course I am on private property and there is NOBODY with permission to be on this posted property, other than my son and I.

 

I won't shoot them, but I believe an errant round very near them might convince them to cease trespassing.

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if i ever see people on my private property where i hunt waterfowl i wouldnt take a single shot that isnt the smartest idea especially because i use a 12 guage 3 1/2 inch bb shells which would definetly do some damage i just go up to them and ask them to leave ....

 

to the guy who wrote above this one good luck with your idea seeing that dnr will probably be the tresspasser and you will lose your vehicle and all of your hunting equiptment

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