Indoor geocaches

[+William.Banfield]

Hi,

 

near to me, we had a large shopping centre. It is all inside and the doors do get locked at night. I was wondering, could i put a cache out inside? Obviously you cold not use a gps, but i could upload a map and give a really good hint. It would not be large or like an ammo can, just a nano cache. I can't see any problem with this, as long as it is in a place that will not effect any of the surrounding. If you can't answer this question, then do you know someone i could email about my query?

 

Thanks

[+wimseyguy]

If you do not have adequate GPS usage in the search for your cache, then it isn't geocaching. If you have to go inside of a commercial facility, it may not comply with the guidelines either.

 

But if there is some way for you to make GPS usage an integral part of the search, and there isn't a need to interact with any store personnel, it might be possible. An offset multi might be an option. It's only a LBH if you want to put the letterbox stamp in it.

 

The best solution is to email your local reviewer with the specific details of what you have in mind, and be prepared to make some adjustments if requested to do so.

Edited November 2, 2009 by wimseyguy

[+obsidianspider]

I don't know if a Traditional would be OK, but I think a Letterbox Hybrid might be alright.

[ao318]

There is a multi in my area where you have to enter the mall to get numbers for the second part of the cache.

[+wiseye]

I had a cache inside a store that shall remain nameless, but lets call it Wally World. It was very near the front windows and you could get a signal. It was a fun challeging cache that lasted 4 years until the store was remodeled and that area was removed. The cache was in a public area of the store, no need to go behind the scenes. Another great cache in our area was in a mall. Not in a store but in the public area of a mall. This was there for 4-5 years until the op got out of caching. You would lose your gps signal 300-400 ft from the cache. The trick was to attemp the find from several different mall entrances and see where each one had you headed, a triangulation, you could say. no need to offer a map of the mall or store. The mall was closed at night and so noted on the cache page. Don't give too much away in the hint. These are hard caches, but greatly rewarding to find. Stealth is in order! Hope this helps.

Wiseye

[+Col. Flagg]

I have seen mystery caches with the final in a Library, which have been some of my favorites. I would make sure that the mall managers and the rent a cops all knew about the cache, they might think that cachers are stealing or planting a bomb.

[+geodarts]

I have seen caches in stores, malls, underground parking and the like where the owner was very careful to provide correct coordinates. One of them was in a Chinese shopping area where you had to ask a local what a character meant if you wanted further clues.

 

Although I assume you would obtain permission, it would be a good idea to expressly state that you have done this on the web page. There have been a couple of caches where I thought this had been done, but it turned out otherwise.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Erickson

[+Castle Mischief]

I don't know if a Traditional would be OK, but I think a Letterbox Hybrid might be alright.

 

This has come up before and it's not an uncommon misconception.

 

The only thing that makes a Letterbox Hybrid different from a Traditional is the presence of a stamp. You still have to include "integral GPS usage" in a Letterbox Hybrid. Just making this a LB Hybrid would not automatically get it approved vs. a Traditional hide.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Castle Mischief

[+niraD]

According to the guidelines, "the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions".

 

With that said, I've found caches where one or more waypoints were indoors. For example, a nearby shopping mall displays several sculptures, and a multi-cache drew attention to the sculptor and his work. Some of the waypoints were indoors, so the cache owner provided additional hints to help those who had difficulty figuring out where the sculptures were based on their coordinates. But the end result was a set of coordinates in a nearby park.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Please, please, please be sure to read and understand the Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines (linked above by niraD).

 

Be sure that you are complying with the GPS usage requirement AND steering clear of the Commercial Cache prohibition.

[+cachensfun]

I don't know if a Traditional would be OK, but I think a Letterbox Hybrid might be alright.

 

Yep! you could make it a Letterbox Hybrid. The rules on thous are that the coordinates can not bring you right to the cache. You just have them go to the doors and let them find it by directions given by hider.

[+Bergie Bunch]

You could also require the finder to project a waypoint to find the cache location inside.

[+Sol seaker]

You would have to get permission to place it in a shopping mall. Seems public, but it is owned by someone. The guys who collect the rent checks from the shops.

 

I've seen two cache in libraries.

 

One, my favorite, had coordinates to the front door. AFter that you got directions to the map drawers in the back. (they had permission)

 

It was my favorite, because we were in the area, and decided to go caching there, but didn't have any caches ready. We had no idea. So we went to the library. I was online and my BF said, are there any in the area?

 

I said, yeah. And pointed. "Back in that map drawer". It was priceless.

[+keehotee]

Yep! you could make it a Letterbox Hybrid. The rules on thous are that the coordinates can not bring you right to the cache. You just have them go to the doors and let them find it by directions given by hider.

??? Which rules are they, then??? These are the only ones I can find in the guidelines.....

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for geocaches and therefore must contain a logbook and involve GPS use as an integral part of the hunt

[+sbell111]

Hi,

 

near to me, we had a large shopping centre. It is all inside and the doors do get locked at night. I was wondering, could i put a cache out inside? Obviously you cold not use a gps, but i could upload a map and give a really good hint. It would not be large or like an ammo can, just a nano cache. I can't see any problem with this, as long as it is in a place that will not effect any of the surrounding. If you can't answer this question, then do you know someone i could email about my query?

 

Thanks

The best way that I have seen these done is to make it a multi. The initial coordinates would place the seeker somewhere outside the mall. He would then follow clues to arrive at the cache location, inside the mall.

 

You will need to make sure that the cache description does not make it obvious that the cache is inside the mall or you will have trouble with the 'coords as an integral part' section of the guidelines. Also, you will need to be very familiar woth the 'commercial' section of the guidelines to make sure that you don't get into trouble there. Finally, all caches require 'adequate permission'. You will need to decide what is 'adequate' for the location that you wish to hide the cache and obtain that permission (if any) from the appropriate individual.

 

Have fun.

Edited November 3, 2009 by sbell111

[+Castle Mischief]

I don't know if a Traditional would be OK, but I think a Letterbox Hybrid might be alright.

 

Yep! you could make it a Letterbox Hybrid. The rules on thous are that the coordinates can not bring you right to the cache. You just have them go to the doors and let them find it by directions given by hider.

 

Sorry, but no. That is not the opinion that has been expressed by the reviewers and TPTB. As they have stated, the only distinguishing feature that makes a LB Hybrid different from a Traditional is the stamp. There are no rules in the guidelines that state anything about coords not leading you directly to the cache. In fact:

 

A letterbox hybrid cannot be designed to be found using only clues.

[+Prime Suspect]

Guidelines:

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Shopping mall = business

[+briansnat]

I don't know if a Traditional would be OK, but I think a Letterbox Hybrid might be alright.

 

Yep! you could make it a Letterbox Hybrid. The rules on thous are that the coordinates can not bring you right to the cache. You just have them go to the doors and let them find it by directions given by hider.

 

That's a misunderstanding of the rules of a LB hybrid. Many LB hybrids are at the posted coordinates. There is nothing in the guidelines that prohibits that. In fact it was a requirement that a LB hybrid be directly at referenced by coordinates until about a year ago.

 

A cache such as you suggest could be a LB hybrid (if there is a stamp inside) or it could be listed as an offset cache which is a type of multi.

Edited November 3, 2009 by briansnat

[+sbell111]

Guidelines:

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Shopping mall = business

I believe that you are misinterpreting the guidelines. Many businesses are withing a shopping mall, but the public areas still have cache potential. Similarly, many businesses are within strip malls. Still, a cache can be placed there. (Reference 'Wal-Mart')

[runner_one]

As for the closed at night issue, there are many caches in parks that are closed at night so I don't see this as making any difference. As for the type it could be a multi or off-set cache. The off-set cache would be listed as a Mystery Cache. I have done several off-set caches. The cache instructions could include something like this "Go to these coordinates nxx xx.xxx wxx xx.xxx and then walk 155 feet north to find the cache." The initial coordinates could be outside the building and the end of the 155 feet inside the building.

 

Most important I would NEVER consider hiding a cache inside a building without having the owner or managing party's permission. I would think that would be the first thing that you should consider, don't even try it without permission.

That could be the deal breaker.

Unless you have some direct connection to the owner or operator of the mall I don't see how that could ever be accomplished.

Last I don't feel like the commercial aspect would be a issue as long as you are not hiding the cache in or promoting a particular business. many caches are hidden in mall parking lots which are common areas I don't feel like inside would be any different as long as it was a common area.

[+Prime Suspect]

Guidelines:

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Shopping mall = business

I believe that you are misinterpreting the guidelines. Many businesses are withing a shopping mall, but the public areas still have cache potential. Similarly, many businesses are within strip malls. Still, a cache can be placed there. (Reference 'Wal-Mart')

 

I worked for several years at the corporate HQ of the Herring Marathon Group. We built and managed shopping malls. Trust me. Malls are a business.

[+Sol seaker]

Guidelines:

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

 

Shopping mall = business

I believe that you are misinterpreting the guidelines. Many businesses are withing a shopping mall, but the public areas still have cache potential. Similarly, many businesses are within strip malls. Still, a cache can be placed there. (Reference 'Wal-Mart')

 

I believe that you are misinterpreting "business"

If a shopping mall was not a business itself, then those having shops in the mall would not be paying rent.

The business they pay rent to is the Mall owner.

Mall owner, means privately owned.

Check out the security guards patrolling. Ask who they work for.

[+sbell111]

Guidelines:

 

Commercial caches will not be published on geocaching.com without prior approval from Groundspeak. A commercial cache is a geocache listing or geocache which is perceived by Groundspeak, Groundspeak's employees, or the Volunteer Geocache Reviewers as having been submitted to geocaching.com with the principal or substantial intent of soliciting customers or generating commercial gain. The geocache is presumed to be commercial if the finder is required to go inside a business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, or if the cache listing has overtones of advertising, marketing, or promotion.

Shopping mall = business

I believe that you are misinterpreting the guidelines. Many businesses are withing a shopping mall, but the public areas still have cache potential. Similarly, many businesses are within strip malls. Still, a cache can be placed there. (Reference 'Wal-Mart')

I worked for several years at the corporate HQ of the Herring Marathon Group. We built and managed shopping malls. Trust me. Malls are a business.

I believe that you are misinterpreting "business"

If a shopping mall was not a business itself, then those having shops in the mall would not be paying rent.

The business they pay rent to is the Mall owner.

Mall owner, means privately owned.

Check out the security guards patrolling. Ask who they work for.

You have both misread my post. Never did I suggest that a mall wasn't a business. I merely stated that I believe that Prime Suspect was misapplying the guidelines. Caches are routinely allowed on commercial property. Hiding a cache in the common areas of a mall (outside the stores) is little different from hiding one in a tree on the property of a strip mall.

[+Team Cotati]

"is little different from hiding one in a tree on the property of a strip mall."

 

I agree, once proper permission has been obtained, of course.

[+sbell111]

"is little different from hiding one in a tree on the property of a strip mall."

 

I agree, once proper permission has been obtained, of course.

Adequate permission must be obtained for all caches. I addressed that issue in post #15.

[+flask]

According to the guidelines, "the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions".

 

 

i'm bothered by the use of "option" in this portion of the guidelines. if GPS use "must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions", "option" is perhaps not appropriate in this sentence.

[+tekkguy]

According to the guidelines, "the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions".

 

 

i'm bothered by the use of "option" in this portion of the guidelines. if GPS use "must be demonstrated for all physical cache submissions", "option" is perhaps not appropriate in this sentence.

 

Option is probably a good word there. The use of a GPSr to hide a cache is not optional - but the use of a GPSr to find one is optional.

 

I found my first cache basically without a GPSr ... it's 130 feet from my office door. I could have used a GPSr, but I chose not to. Hence the option.

[toczygroszek]

Hmmm...

I've seen few caches hidden under ground e.g in caves, mines, or similar spots. These caches are mostly set as Mystery/Puzzle or Multicaches. You HAVE TO use GPSr to find entrance, so using GPS is still integral part of game. Or I'm wrong, and these cache should be archived as not meeting guidelines?

[+Bergie Bunch]

Hmmm...

I've seen few caches hidden under ground e.g in caves, mines, or similar spots. These caches are mostly set as Mystery/Puzzle or Multicaches. You HAVE TO use GPSr to find entrance, so using GPS is still integral part of game. Or I'm wrong, and these cache should be archived as not meeting guidelines?

No, because they are no different than requiring a person to project a waypoint.

[Red Six]

There are lots of caches in my area that are in libraries. The coordinates are for the door, and there is usually some puzzle you have to solve to the get the book reference #. Lot's of hollowed out books in the city libraries here!