Religious Propaganda

[+BlueDeuce]

....eh nevermind.

Edited November 2, 2009 by BlueDeuce

[Mr.Yuck]

You can always spot the bitter, and angry athiests in any group.

 

I think I've spotted the person leaving religious tracts.

 

Me too. And I know who they are. You want a username?

 

I could go for some nice Sweet Potato recipes right about now.

[+wimseyguy]

If the cache is on a churches property (with permission and all that jazz) I see it as perfectly exceptable, but like said before I see it also as advertising otherwise., besides its supposed to be for all ages, and I believe you shouldn't promote religion to children......that's the parents responsibility, not all cashers are christian, or jewish, or muslim, or catholic, or wiccan, or buddhist, or native american, or pagan, or, or, or, so unless its on religious property leave it out

Not quite on a par with 'Why does my post say Ringbone?' But quite possibly one of the finest typos/word misuse in the 2009 forums?

 

So tracts in a cache on a church's property should be granted an exception? Or should they be accepted?

And if they are not on church property they shouldn't be in the cache at all?

 

Eh..when life gets confusing, eat dessert. (I've made this one several times. It's a bit complicated, but worth the effort.

 

Sweet Potato Creme Brulee

Ingredients:

 

* 2 large sweetpotatoes

* 1 3/4 cups sugar, divided

* 1/2 cup sour cream

* 2 tablespoons fresh lemon juice

* 3 cups whipping cream

* 1 vanilla bean

* 1 tablespoon vanilla

* 12 egg yolks

* sugar

 

 

Preparation:

 

Bake sweetpotatoes in center of 325 degree F oven until tender, about 1 hour. Peel sweetpotatoes and puree until smooth. Combine sweetpotato puree, 1/4 cup sugar, sour cream and lemon juice; mix well. Butter 10 (7-ounce) ramekins; sprinkle with sugar. Spoon 1/4-inch layer of sweetpotato mixture (about 3 tablespoons) into ramekins. Set ramekins in 9 x 13 x 2-inch baking dish; set aside. In saucepan, combine whipping cream, 3/4 cup sugar and vanilla bean. Bring to a boil, stirring occasionally. Remove from heat; and stir in vanilla. Mix egg yolks with remaining 3/4 cup sugar. Blend hot cream into egg yolk mixture. Fill ramekins with egg mixture. Place in center of oven at 325 degrees F. Pour enough hot water into baking dish to come halfway up sides of ramekins. Bake 55 minutes or until knife inserted near the center comes out clean. Remove ramekins from water to a wire rack and cool. Chill in refrigerator.

 

To make decorative golden sugar garnish heat additional 1/2 cup sugar in heavy small skillet over medium heat until melted. Drizzle sugar onto lightly buttered baking sheet with a fork. Let stand until cook. Break into large pieces. At serving time, sprinkle ramekins with sugar if desired, place under broiler to brown sugar.

 

Spoon into stemmed glasses; garnish with golden sugar pieces.

 

 

Notes:

Makes 10 servings.

[+Col. Flagg]

Other than people supporting Christianity and sweet potatoes I have not seen any other religion put propaganda in a cache, why is that? Maybe I'll pick up some pamphlets on Wicca, can you imagine how upset some people would be.

[+raven_spirit]

ya it always seems to be christian things left, i work in a grocery store and commonly we find christian paraphenalia in the public washrooms

but never any other religions

 

next time maybe a pentagram should be left, that would cause alot of controversy compaired to a cross

[+hydnsek]

Other than people supporting Christianity and sweet potatoes, I have not seen any other religion put propaganda in a cache...

This made me laugh so hard I almost wet myself. Maybe it was the juxtaposition. Praise be to those wimseycal sweet taters!

Edited November 2, 2009 by hydnsek

[+geodarts]

I enjoy finding the occasional religious tract in a cache. I will trade fairly for one of my NC Sweet Potato tracts that I pick up at food shows. They are full of excellent recipes and nutritional information. It's also our official state vegetable.

 

There is no way that sweet potato info would be an even trade. Green beans maybe. Artichokes if you want to trade up. But sweet potatos are too orange to render them suitable for a cache.

[+popokiiti]

I don't like to see advertising in any cache. Whether it is religious, political, esthetician (offering 10% discount for mentioning card in cache) or other service. Just my two cents worth.....

Thanks for the creme brulee recipe though!

[+raven_spirit]

i was thinking the other day thst if i owned a buisness i would have a cache linked to the buisness...on the property, and then have 10%off coupons in it.

 

i dont agree with advertising in caches ither but if a buisness owns it thats a bit difference

[Clan Riffster]

next time maybe a pentagram should be left, that would cause alot of controversy

Probably not. With the exception of those folks who feel obligated to be offended over anything and everything, I doubt anyone would care. Depending on the quality of the Pentacle, (or Pentagram), it would probably be traded out within the first week.

[+Arrow42]

Other than people supporting Christianity and sweet potatoes I have not seen any other religion put propaganda in a cache, why is that? Maybe I'll pick up some pamphlets on Wicca, can you imagine how upset some people would be.

 

If the primary religion of the USA was Islam then I wouldn't be surprised to see tracts about the Qur'an in caches.

 

I don't think there is anything in Wicca about converting people to Wicca.

[Dinoprophet]

ya it always seems to be christian things left, i work in a grocery store and commonly we find christian paraphenalia in the public washrooms

but never any other religions

 

next time maybe a pentagram should be left, that would cause alot of controversy compaired to a cross

Ah, there it is. This sentiment is as inevitable as this topic (I swear it was yesterday I was thinking it hadn't come up in a few months).

 

Please do a search of the forums and see how many complaints you find about non-Christian religious items being left in cache. You won't find many, and I doubt any. You might try to argue that no one leaves anything but Christian items, but that is false. I can tell you for a fact that I have seen -- and traded for -- Tibetan prayer flags and dreamcatchers. I'm not sure I'd even notice if I came across a pentagram.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Dinoprophet

[+wimseyguy]

Oooh, I'd love to find a Tibetan prayer flag in a cache.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Last warning for those of you posting Off-Topic comments. Stop now.

 

The contents of forum signatures is not the topic of discussion here. Those discussions need to be conducted elsewhere.

[+The Leprechauns]

I was finding caches for four years before I found Jesus, and in very interesting ways, the first thing contributed to the second, and the second thing enhances the first. My differing outlooks for the periods 2002 to 2005 and 2006 to the present afford me an interesting perspective on this topic.

 

For seven years I have always snickered at the "over the top" religious tracts. They are unlikely to persuade someone to change their outlook, and more likely to offend than anything else. But who am I to decide what might appeal to someone else? Nowadays, I will skim the tract and replace it in the cache. If there are 50 tracts and most of them are wet because they prevent the container lid from sealing, I will CITO the extras and leave a few dry ones.

 

Anything short of a tract, well, nowadays that is about the only thing that I will trade for. I've long since accumulated enough bottle openers, penlights, keychains and other standard swag, but a religious item will still catch my eye. This especially includes written material short of a Chick Tract. From 2002 to 2005 I would have rolled my eyes and passed up the religious items in favor of the penlights -- but I would've left them there for someone else. So, please respect that trading preference, OK? What might be useless to you could be the ideal trade item for the next visitor.

 

The same thing goes for items that don't interest me. I don't especially like to see political materials in a cache, or items that advertise or promote alcoholic beverages, just to name two examples. But, since others may enjoy these items, I leave them be and choose not to be bothered by them. I respect the preferences of others.

 

And yes, I have a Sweet Potato Tract. If I ever make a display case of treasured trade items, the Tract will be enshrined there.

[Dinoprophet]

Oooh, I'd love to find a Tibetan prayer flag in a cache.

It's the first sig item I ever heard of. I don't know if the guy still leaves them.

 

To keep this on topic, the dreamcatchers I've found were also sig items. Religious items are commonly sig items.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Dinoprophet

[+raven_spirit]

ya it always seems to be christian things left, i work in a grocery store and commonly we find christian paraphenalia in the public washrooms

but never any other religions

 

next time maybe a pentagram should be left, that would cause alot of controversy compaired to a cross

Ah, there it is. This sentiment is as inevitable as this topic (I swear it was yesterday I was thinking it hadn't come up in a few months).

 

Please do a search of the forums and see how many complaints you find about non-Christian religious items being left in cache. You won't find many, and I doubt any. You might try to argue that no one leaves anything but Christian items, but that is false. I can tell you for a fact that I have seen -- and traded for -- Tibetan prayer flags and dreamcatchers. I'm not sure I'd even notice if I came across a pentagram.

 

not saying it doesnt happen, just that it seems to be the one noticed most outside of geocaching, i find so many religious paraphenalia in my grocery store, at the local mall, at my school and many other places, but nearly never any other religion, hristian items seem to be the ones that cause controversy. maybe geocachers are more open then general public, and if so i am very happy

[+Arrow42]

Please do a search of the forums and see how many complaints you find about non-Christian religious items being left in cache. You won't find many, and I doubt any. You might try to argue that no one leaves anything but Christian items, but that is false. I can tell you for a fact that I have seen -- and traded for -- Tibetan prayer flags and dreamcatchers. I'm not sure I'd even notice if I came across a pentagram.

 

I think a cross would be more appropriate then a pamphlet about why my sinning ways are going to send me to hell.

 

I'm having a hard time articulating a reason why, so it might just be emotional.

[+Team Cotati]

I have a question.

 

Is it permissible, according to published guidelines, to place religious tracts in geocaches or not?

[+Arrow42]

I have a question.

 

Is it permissible, according to published guidelines, to place religious tracts in geocaches or not?

 

The second post in this tread addresses this question.

 

Now, is it ok if we discuss out particular views on the subject?

[+Col. Flagg]

According to the second reply, from MM there is no regulations on placing religious items in the cache.

 

Arrow beat me.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Col. Flagg

[+flask]

in terms of even-handedness, we have seen in the course of this same debate in its many incarnations people saying that they would indeed feel very differently about pagan or islamic items and that those things cross the line whereas Christian claptrap is fine with them.

 

this to me represents a problem; if in principle somebody's religious items are unacceptable, then everybody's religious items ought to be.

 

i also make a distinction between items that are religious in nature (to which i do not object, regardless of which faith they represent) and items that are intended to correct, instruct, or convert others, which i consider to be very bad manners.

 

it is an arrogance of the first magnitude to consider yourself qualified to sit in judgment on the state of other people's souls and to presume to instruct those other people as to your assessment that you have found them wanting and in need of correction.

 

it is a long way from "Jesus loves me" to "Jesus loves me more than you; 'coz you suck, i know it's true".

 

it is an even longer way to "Jesus left me in charge and i therefore am informing you that you'd better mend your ways and be more like me because you are hell-bound."

 

i'll quote the old hymn again:

 

you want togo to heaven

round the great white throne

you tend to your businesss

leave mine alone.

[+Team Cotati]

I have a question.

 

Is it permissible, according to published guidelines, to place religious tracts in geocaches or not?

 

The second post in this tread addresses this question.

 

Now, is it ok if we discuss out particular views on the subject?

 

Yes, you have my express in permission. Please do proceed.

[+raven_spirit]

you want togo to heaven

round the great white throne

you tend to your businesss

leave mine alone.

 

i like that

 

i stick to the geocaching is an all age event, and i feel there shouldnt be religious items as its the parents job to teach religion to the child.

 

saying that i know i would be extatic finding certain religious items, like the dream catchers and tibetan prayer flags that were mentioned before.

[+Okiebryan]

The "chick" tracts are incredibly offensive. They are insulting to many Christians, they are frightening to children, and I constantly see them left in public bathrooms, and often in caches. The chick tracts are to Christianity about like Fred Phelps group up in KS is... Awkward and uncomfortable, and impossible to defend...even for Christians.

 

Bottom line, Geocaching is not the place for any of this. Please keep your beliefs out of this light and fun family activity. If you choose to leave this stuff in a cache, and I come along behind you, this hateful propaganda will be relocated to the nearest garbage receptacle.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Okiebryan

[+Team Cotati]

"According to the second reply, from MM there is no regulations on placing religious items in the cache."

 

Thank you.

 

That being the case, the answer is obvious:

 

Yes, of course religious tracts do belong in caches.

[+The Leprechauns]

OK, I take back what I said. I will relocate every Budweiser key chain, every Johnny Walker coaster, every Heineken bottle opener, to the nearest garbage receptacle.

 

Thanks, Okiebryan, for helping me to see the light.

[+Okiebryan]

OK, I take back what I said. I will relocate every Budweiser key chain, every Johnny Walker coaster, every Heineken bottle opener, to the nearest garbage receptacle.

 

Thanks, Okiebryan, for helping me to see the light.

 

I've never seen a Budweiser key chain, a Johnny Walker coaster, or a Heineken bottle opener in a geocache. I've also never seen any of those objects tell the child of a lesbian woman that GOD HATES HER MOTHER because her mother was evil and going to spend eternity in hell with ghosts, demons and Satan. I have found this exact situation while geocaching with one of my daughter's best friends, who happens to be the daughter of a lesbian. This 9 year old girl burst into tears and didn't want to go geocaching any more.

 

Please tell me how the propagation of this hateful garbage helps to further the activity of geocaching? Go ahead, I'll wait.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Okiebryan

[+BlueDeuce]

Semi-on topic. Was there ever a religious tract thread that wasn't closed down by a Mod?

[+raven_spirit]

is there a poll option on these discussions...it be interesting to know the range of religions responding to this thread

[+BlueDeuce]

no sorry, the forum poll feature isn't available. They had problems with one-sided options so to reduce the angst, no more polls.

Edited November 2, 2009 by BlueDeuce

[+flask]

is there a poll option on these discussions...it be interesting to know the range of religions responding to this thread

 

if you believe kit fox, i'm an angry, bitter atheist.

 

i've also been called a God-hating atheist.

 

i do not believe that i ought to have to trot out my Christian credentials in order to have a valid opinion about this.

[+Vater_Araignee]

If the primary religion of the USA was Islam then I wouldn't be surprised to see tracts about the Qur'an in caches.

 

I don't think there is anything in Wicca about converting people to Wicca.

There is not, at least not in any of the books filling several trunks in my storage unit.

Oooh, I'd love to find a Tibetan prayer flag in a cache.

I found one and my Cristian wife snatched it up, mad her more willing to take long hikes for caches because of the chance of higher quality swag.

 

I've shrugged off tracts recently, it simply isn't worth the effort of getting worked up over.

So long as it isn't preaching negative/illegal behavior, none should be upset and we would all be happier if we understood that.

[+Team Cotati]

OK, I take back what I said. I will relocate every Budweiser key chain, every Johnny Walker coaster, every Heineken bottle opener, to the nearest garbage receptacle.

 

Thanks, Okiebryan, for helping me to see the light.

 

I've never seen a Budweiser key chain, a Johnny Walker coaster, or a Heineken bottle opener in a geocache. I've also never seen any of those objects tell the child of a lesbian woman that GOD HATES HER MOTHER because her mother was evil and going to spend eternity in hell with ghosts, demons and Satan. I have found this exact situation while geocaching with one of my daughter's best friends, who happens to be the daughter of a lesbian. This 9 year old girl burst into tears and didn't want to go geocaching any more.

 

Please tell me how the propagation of this hateful garbage helps to further the activity of geocaching? Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

Well there you have it. You haven't personally seen it ergo, it has never existed.

 

Got it.

[+raven_spirit]

now heres a realated question, for those who oppose

 

if the cache is on church grounds and obviously owned by a church memeber what would you think of religious swag??

 

or if the description stated it was a religious cache...much like there are certain caches that have a haloween theme, or a pirate theme??

[+bittsen]

now heres a realated question, for those who oppose

 

if the cache is on church grounds and obviously owned by a church memeber what would you think of religious swag??

 

or if the description stated it was a religious cache...much like there are certain caches that have a haloween theme, or a pirate theme??

 

It would indicate a cache with an agenda and I would support it being archived (or not cry if it was muggled).

 

This post, in no way, is against any religion or any other "belief" system.

[+WRASTRO]

I believe the poll results would be that for every forum participant there is an opinion. And they should all be allowed regardless of the beliefs of others. Not saying we all need to agree. Tolerance is a good thing. Knowing more about other points of view is probably a very good thing.

[+Arrow42]

i also make a distinction between items that are religious in nature (to which i do not object, regardless of which faith they represent) and items that are intended to correct, instruct, or convert others, which i consider to be very bad manners.

 

Well said. I'd personalty be fine with a Cross, Pentagram, Moon/star symbol of Islam, swastika of Hindu, star of david, dreamcatcher, etc.

[+BlueDeuce]

Whenever you find something objectionable in a cache, trade it out.

[GOF and Bacall]

now heres a realated question, for those who oppose

 

if the cache is on church grounds and obviously owned by a church memeber what would you think of religious swag??

 

or if the description stated it was a religious cache...much like there are certain caches that have a haloween theme, or a pirate theme??

A theme is fine. But a religious theme is an agenda. The difference may not be blindingly obvious to some but it is important.

[+Team Cotati]

Whenever you find something objectionable in a cache, trade it out.

 

Unless it is religious in nature.

 

Then leave it alone.

[+Okiebryan]

OK, I take back what I said. I will relocate every Budweiser key chain, every Johnny Walker coaster, every Heineken bottle opener, to the nearest garbage receptacle.

 

Thanks, Okiebryan, for helping me to see the light.

 

I've never seen a Budweiser key chain, a Johnny Walker coaster, or a Heineken bottle opener in a geocache. I've also never seen any of those objects tell the child of a lesbian woman that GOD HATES HER MOTHER because her mother was evil and going to spend eternity in hell with ghosts, demons and Satan. I have found this exact situation while geocaching with one of my daughter's best friends, who happens to be the daughter of a lesbian. This 9 year old girl burst into tears and didn't want to go geocaching any more.

 

Please tell me how the propagation of this hateful garbage helps to further the activity of geocaching? Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

Well there you have it. You haven't personally seen it ergo, it has never existed.

 

Got it.

Did you even bother to read the rest of that post?

[GOF and Bacall]

Whenever you find something objectionable in a cache, trade it out.

 

Unless it is religious in nature.

 

Then leave it alone.

I don't care what the items "nature" is. If I find it objectionable I will trade it out. That is my right as a geocacher.

[+Okiebryan]

Whenever you find something objectionable in a cache, trade it out.

 

Unless it is religious in nature.

 

Then leave it alone.

 

Are you even serious with this post, or are you just stirring the pot? The only thing any cacher is required to leave in the cache is the logbook.

[+flask]

now heres a realated question, for those who oppose

 

if the cache is on church grounds and obviously owned by a church memeber what would you think of religious swag??

 

or if the description stated it was a religious cache...much like there are certain caches that have a haloween theme, or a pirate theme??

 

a church themed cache on church grounds would be promoting church agenda, just as a business-related cache at a business would be promoting that agenda.

 

under the current guidelines, it would not be permissible.

 

the guidelines make a distinction between "here's a cache in our lovely church garden" and "here's a cache to instruct you about our lovely church mission".

 

because what seems like a universally acceptable agenda to one person is objectionable or even harmful to some others, Groundspeak has wisely decided to disallow agendas.

[+Team Cotati]

Whenever you find something objectionable in a cache, trade it out.

 

Unless it is religious in nature.

 

Then leave it alone.

I don't care what the items "nature" is. If I find it objectionable I will trade it out. That is my right as a geocacher.

 

It might be your 'right' as a geocacher.

 

It is still wrong.

[+Team Cotati]

now heres a realated question, for those who oppose

 

if the cache is on church grounds and obviously owned by a church memeber what would you think of religious swag??

 

or if the description stated it was a religious cache...much like there are certain caches that have a haloween theme, or a pirate theme??

 

a church themed cache on church grounds would be promoting church agenda, just as a business-related cache at a business would be promoting that agenda.

 

under the current guidelines, it would not be permissible.

 

the guidelines make a distinction between "here's a cache in our lovely church garden" and "here's a cache to instruct you about our lovely church mission".

 

because what seems like a universally acceptable agenda to one person is objectionable or even harmful to some others, Groundspeak has wisely decided to disallow agendas.

 

Was that covered in post #2?

[GOF and Bacall]

Whenever you find something objectionable in a cache, trade it out.

 

Unless it is religious in nature.

 

Then leave it alone.

I don't care what the items "nature" is. If I find it objectionable I will trade it out. That is my right as a geocacher.

 

It might be your 'right' as a geocacher.

 

It is still wrong.

What makes it wrong?

[+Okiebryan]

Apparently Team Cotati has come across the heretofore unknown 11th Commandment. "Thou shalt not trade religious items from a geocache in the woods." Wonder if that one also came on a stone tablet?

[GOF and Bacall]

Apparently Team Cotati has come across the heretofore unknown 11th Commandment. "Thou shalt not trade religious items from a geocache in the woods." Wonder if that one also came on a stone tablet?

I'll bet it was on that third tablet that Mel, er, Moses dropped.