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Religious Propaganda

Trombone Man

By Trombone Man
in General geocaching topics

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CTYankee9

+CTYankee9

Posted
Posted
Swimming against the tide and attempting to regain 'on topic' ground...

 

I'd be interested to know if anyone's opinions on the subject of religious tracts in caches has changed from following this thread.

 

I know mine certainly haven't and won't, since I try to take a moderate approach to everything in life, I try to avoid excessive hyperbole and overreaction... however my opinion on some forum members has been changed... or rather it has been thoroughly enlightening for me to see where people position themselves.

 

;)

Mine haven't changed. Live and let live as much as possible. I know where the line is and I have yet to seen it crossed with the scant amount of religious tracts I've come across. Maybe other areas are far worse than out here. My bet is that it is only one or two culprits are dropping them into caches in those areas. Remember that one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch!

 

I will say my views haven't changed any from reading this thread, nor would my views change from reading any sort of information gathered from a geocache. I have yet to run into one of these tracts in 1600+ caches, maybe I don't spend enough time sifting through the bits of paper, they could have been in there. I still believe they may be placed in the cache, just as they may be removed; like any other item found within the cache.

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niraD

+niraD

Posted
Posted

FWIW, my views haven't changed either. I haven't found religious propaganda in a cache yet, but I've found offensive, graphic propaganda, as well as a few inappropriate items (e.g., food and food-scented items). I'll keep doing what I've done in the past: I trade for the items in question.

 

Once I trade for something, it's mine. Once it's mine, I can do whatever I want with it.

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Sol seaker

+Sol seaker

Posted
Posted
The anti-Muslim tract that Okiebryan linked to has an interesting story about the origins of Islam.

For me, the tract was less about teaching the alleged history of a religion, and more about sensationalism through violence.

Ergo, it fits the hate preach category, in my biased mental filing cabinet. :rolleyes:

 

This is why this stuff is so damaging.

 

There are Islamic Sects that are much more peaceful than christians, yet we only hear about the violent ones.

 

It's all propaganda.

 

I've learned a bit about some members too. and members in general.

 

I expected to be beat to sh*t over one post I did and all that happened was I got one personal "Thank YOU" e-mail. No one else responded. That really was nice.

 

Man there are good geocachers out there after all ;)

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Sol seaker

+Sol seaker

Posted
Posted

 

On topic; The literature, icons, or whatever material you wish to leave behind relating to whatever belief you choose to represent in the cache are not prohibited by the broad brush of the guidelines. So may they be left behind? Sure. As someone who has been invited to come seek this cache, can I do as I please with the contents of the cache as long as I follow the spirit of the guidelines? Sure. If that means trading for one of your icons or tracts as I see fit, taking into account my valuation of that item then that is perfectly allowable.

 

Back off topic- Whoever that was that found the glow-n-dark Nun, get with me I am a collector of Glow-n-dark stuff from caches and my prior aquisitions need some fresh insight on their discussions.

 

 

As I understand it, geocaches are the personal property of their owners. Double check with Groundspeak on this, but this is what I've come to understand.

 

I think we've long since lost the moderators on this thread so you may have to e-mail in and ask.

 

It was me who was talking about the glow-in-the-dark nun.

My geo-partner found it, carried it around for a while, then put it in another cache. That cache is an hours drive, at least, plus another half hours hike (I actually believe I remember where he left it).

 

If you reallly want it bad I can give you directions, or can refer you to the northwest pages to see who's caching in that area next.

 

Beautiful trail. Worth the walk. Very very nice. Great place for a nun to hang out for a while.

 

I think we traded it for a rubber duck with devil horns.

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ThePetersTrio

+ThePetersTrio

Posted
Posted
We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses.

 

FYI - If you have knowledge of someone defrauding the government by collecting welfare benefits illegally then it is your civic duty to report them to the authorities. They will be prosecuted. Fraud is a serious crime and by not reporting it then that is also a crime.

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TrailGators

+TrailGators

Posted
Posted
We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses.

 

FYI - If you have knowledge of someone defrauding the government by collecting welfare benefits illegally then it is your civic duty to report them to the authorities. They will be prosecuted. Fraud is a serious crime and by not reporting it then that is also a crime.

 

Yes, it is such a serious crime that Acorn is alive and well... ;)
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CanUK_TeamFitz

+CanUK_TeamFitz

Posted
Posted
You know this whole problem was probably caused by those damned religious squirrrels.

 

You know they're sitting back somewhere, holding their stomachs, laughing their tails off at us.

 

Man did they get us going!!!!!

They won't be happy until we are all nuts!

 

I am completely offended at the way squirrels spread their hate literature against hamsters!

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GeoGeeBee

+GeoGeeBee

Posted
Posted

As I've mentioned before, I won't deliberately remove religious tract from a geocache even though I don't think it is an appropriate place for them unless they are wet.

 

OK, now I understand: a geocache is not an appropriate place for a religious tract. However, it is an appropriate place for a wet religious tract. ;)

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Team Cotati

+Team Cotati

Posted
Posted

Swimming against the tide and attempting to regain 'on topic' ground...

 

I'd be interested to know if anyone's opinions on the subject of religious tracts in caches has changed from following this thread.

 

I know mine certainly haven't and won't, since I try to take a moderate approach to everything in life, I try to avoid excessive hyperbole and overreaction... however my opinion on some forum members has been changed... or rather it has been thoroughly enlightening for me to see where people position themselves.

 

;)

 

No.

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kraushad

+kraushad

Posted
Posted

Haven't changed positions... Wouldn't put one in there, and wouldn't care if I stumbled upon one.

 

Do they belong in there? Don't know. I think the God Loves You kind is fine, but the Hell & damnation or "anti something" kind are probably inappropriate.

 

Would I throw one out if it were in my cache? No, not unless it was wet or tattered badly enough to be trashy, or was one of the unacceptable kinds listed above.

 

Would I ever CITO one from another cache? No, not unless it was wet or tattered badly enough to be trashy, or was one of the unacceptable kinds listed above.

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Castle Mischief

+Castle Mischief

Posted
Posted

Something I've seen in my brief tour of this lil' blue marble we all call home is behavior that most would find intolerable, coming from many different fronts, and directed at many different fronts. I've seen violence directed at gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals. I've also seen violence dispensed by gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals. I've seen loving care directed at gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals, and I've seen loving care dispensed by gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals.

 

What, no mention of the bi-sexuals, trans-genders, agnostics, atheists, Jews, Amish, native-Americans, Polynesians, libertarian, anarchists, Pastafarians, Eskimos, or vegans?

 

How typical. ;)

 

My personal opinion is that there is an epidemic of co-dependence sweeping this country.

 

This desperate need to tell someone, anyone, every little detail of your mostly routine boring life.

 

Like, don't like, what you are eating, where you are going, when you get back, what the weather is doing, when that changes, seeking some sort of approval for the most insignificant of things.

 

Astounding.

 

I for one do not see this as a good thing.

 

I think you are bang on. (not sure how this relates the the tread though). Twitter and Facebook are perfect examples. I like to share my mountain top caching experiences, but not every little detail of my life. That is why I do not have a Facebook account.

 

Contrary to popular belief, signing up with Facebook and Twitter does not mandate that you post "every detail of your life". No more than having an email account mandates that you email to everybody in your address book "every detail of your life."

 

It's just a tool. Foolish people will use a tool in foolish ways. The belief that all users are foolish based on usage of some of the users is ill conceived and short sighted. But hey, stereotypes are a real time saver, right?

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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted
We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses.

 

FYI - If you have knowledge of someone defrauding the government by collecting welfare benefits illegally then it is your civic duty to report them to the authorities. They will be prosecuted. Fraud is a serious crime and by not reporting it then that is also a crime.

 

My dept. has an entire team supported by the local Mayors, who investigate Section 8 and welfare fraud. They prosecute them left and right, but the problem is that there are thousands of people taking advantage of the system.

Link to comment
Team Cotati

+Team Cotati

Posted
Posted

Something I've seen in my brief tour of this lil' blue marble we all call home is behavior that most would find intolerable, coming from many different fronts, and directed at many different fronts. I've seen violence directed at gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals. I've also seen violence dispensed by gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals. I've seen loving care directed at gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals, and I've seen loving care dispensed by gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals.

 

What, no mention of the bi-sexuals, trans-genders, agnostics, atheists, Jews, Amish, native-Americans, Polynesians, libertarian, anarchists, Pastafarians, Eskimos, or vegans?

 

How typical. ;)

 

My personal opinion is that there is an epidemic of co-dependence sweeping this country.

 

This desperate need to tell someone, anyone, every little detail of your mostly routine boring life.

 

Like, don't like, what you are eating, where you are going, when you get back, what the weather is doing, when that changes, seeking some sort of approval for the most insignificant of things.

 

Astounding.

 

I for one do not see this as a good thing.

 

I think you are bang on. (not sure how this relates the the tread though). Twitter and Facebook are perfect examples. I like to share my mountain top caching experiences, but not every little detail of my life. That is why I do not have a Facebook account.

 

Contrary to popular belief, signing up with Facebook and Twitter does not mandate that you post "every detail of your life". No more than having an email account mandates that you email to everybody in your address book "every detail of your life."

 

It's just a tool. Foolish people will use a tool in foolish ways. The belief that all users are foolish based on usage of some of the users is ill conceived and short sighted. But hey, stereotypes are a real time saver, right?

"stereotypes are a real time saver, right?"

 

And in this instance well earned.

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ThePetersTrio

+ThePetersTrio

Posted
Posted
We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses.

 

FYI - If you have knowledge of someone defrauding the government by collecting welfare benefits illegally then it is your civic duty to report them to the authorities. They will be prosecuted. Fraud is a serious crime and by not reporting it then that is also a crime.

 

My dept. has an entire team supported by the local Mayors, who investigate Section 8 and welfare fraud. They prosecute them left and right, but the problem is that there are thousands of people taking advantage of the system.

 

Do you work for your state offices then? If so, you are well versed in the income requirements in order to receive welfare or Section 8 Housing and the requirements of residents to provide proof of said income every quarter? The reason I ask is because many people use inflammatory rhetoric such as 'cadillac-driving welfare queens' when they really have very little knowledge about how the system actually works and the people who actually receive assistance. Certainly there is fraud and abuse, but it isn't as high as many people would like to believe with all of the safeguards that have been added to ensure that those who legitimately need help get it and those who actually don't need it, don't get it. Things have changed a lot since the 80s. ;)

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ThePetersTrio

+ThePetersTrio

Posted
Posted (edited)
We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses.

 

FYI - If you have knowledge of someone defrauding the government by collecting welfare benefits illegally then it is your civic duty to report them to the authorities. They will be prosecuted. Fraud is a serious crime and by not reporting it then that is also a crime.

 

Yes, it is such a serious crime that Acorn is alive and well... ;)

 

Not just Acorn - Halliburton and Blackwater (Xe) too! :rolleyes:

Edited by ThePetersTrio
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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted
We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses.

 

FYI - If you have knowledge of someone defrauding the government by collecting welfare benefits illegally then it is your civic duty to report them to the authorities. They will be prosecuted. Fraud is a serious crime and by not reporting it then that is also a crime.

 

My dept. has an entire team supported by the local Mayors, who investigate Section 8 and welfare fraud. They prosecute them left and right, but the problem is that there are thousands of people taking advantage of the system.

 

Do you work for your state offices then? If so, you are well versed in the income requirements in order to receive welfare or Section 8 Housing and the requirements of residents to provide proof of said income every quarter? The reason I ask is because many people use inflammatory rhetoric such as 'cadillac-driving welfare queens' when they really have very little knowledge about how the system actually works and the people who actually receive assistance. Certainly there is fraud and abuse, but it isn't as high as many people would like to believe with all of the safeguards that have been added to ensure that those who legitimately need help get it and those who actually don't need it, don't get it. Things have changed a lot since the 80s. ;)

 

I work for the local SD and have many friends (detectives, patrol deputies, etc) who are involved in the Section 8 team. Their job is to investigate allegations of fraud. In nearly every case, the scams are as follows:

 

A large family consisting of a single mother, and multiple kids from "unknown" men. The mother purposely avoids naming the fathers because the state would go after them to collect support payments from them. They get other relatives to purchase expensive cars in the relative's name (this is done so they can avoid being suspended from the section 8 program due to owning vehicles with high values. They qualify for large houses, and they rent out the extra rooms to other people. When the teams investigate complaints about a "section 8 house," They find the family that qualified for the program, mulitple men who end up being the father's of the kids. They almost always find illicit drugs, stolen property, and numerous "renters" in the house. This is a longtime scam that the local mayors have discovered is the source for over 80% of the local crime rates.

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TrailGators

+TrailGators

Posted
Posted
We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses.

 

FYI - If you have knowledge of someone defrauding the government by collecting welfare benefits illegally then it is your civic duty to report them to the authorities. They will be prosecuted. Fraud is a serious crime and by not reporting it then that is also a crime.

 

My dept. has an entire team supported by the local Mayors, who investigate Section 8 and welfare fraud. They prosecute them left and right, but the problem is that there are thousands of people taking advantage of the system.

Because the system sucks. Politicians have no clue how to make a good system. All they care about is buying votes by wasting our money.

 

Briansnat has a great quote in his sig line: "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." – Alexis de Tocqueville

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Renegade Knight

+Renegade Knight

Posted
Posted

...Because the system sucks. Politicians have no clue how to make a good system....

 

Any one politican can create a good system. Any system can be abused. Systems are implemented by process. Process removes the ablity of any one system implementor (beauocrat but I can't spell that) from abusing the intent of the process. Process removes any one persons ablity to lop off the system abusers like the Expensive Car driving, Slum Lord Queen Kit Fox mentioned who meet the letter of the law dictated by the process but who are clearly in need of being cut off.

 

If that made any sence then you undnerstand why the solution to some probems of abuse create other problems with abuse.

 

If you start with say congress creating a crappy system...everthing else gets worse. There are normally good intentions in solving a real issue all the way down the line.

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Chrysalides

+Chrysalides

Posted
Posted

As I've mentioned before, I won't deliberately remove religious tract from a geocache even though I don't think it is an appropriate place for them unless they are wet.

 

OK, now I understand: a geocache is not an appropriate place for a religious tract. However, it is an appropriate place for a wet religious tract. ;)

OK I had to chuckle at that.

 

I believe in equal opportunity for wet pieces of paper.

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Jeep_Dog

+Jeep_Dog

Posted
Posted

 

Any one politican can create a good system. Any system can be abused. Systems are implemented by process. Process removes the ablity of any one system implementor (beauocrat but I can't spell that) from abusing the intent of the process. Process removes any one persons ablity to lop off the system abusers ...who meet the letter of the law dictated by the process but who are clearly in need of being cut off.

 

Huh? ;)

 

Dude, I gotta go light a candle and meditate to find inspiration leading me to some semblance of understnading of what you wrote...

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Clan Riffster

Clan Riffster

Posted
Posted (edited)
Any one politican can create a good system.

Based on my own observations, I would question that.

My experience is that there is no system, service or process so bad, that it can't be screwed up by 'gubment' intervention.

 

There are normally good intentions in solving a real issue all the way down the line.

Would those be the oft cited 'Road to Hades' paving blocks? ;)

Edited by Clan Riffster
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bittsen

+bittsen

Posted
Posted

I work for the local SD and have many friends (detectives, patrol deputies, etc) who are involved in the Section 8 team. Their job is to investigate allegations of fraud. In nearly every case, the scams are as follows:

 

A large family consisting of a single mother, and multiple kids from "unknown" men. The mother purposely avoids naming the fathers because the state would go after them to collect support payments from them. They get other relatives to purchase expensive cars in the relative's name (this is done so they can avoid being suspended from the section 8 program due to owning vehicles with high values. They qualify for large houses, and they rent out the extra rooms to other people. When the teams investigate complaints about a "section 8 house," They find the family that qualified for the program, mulitple men who end up being the father's of the kids. They almost always find illicit drugs, stolen property, and numerous "renters" in the house. This is a longtime scam that the local mayors have discovered is the source for over 80% of the local crime rates.

 

Though you are correct about how the scam works (I had one ejected from a house nearby who was doing the exact scam you laid out) I doubt your statistics.

 

I also have to add. What in gawds name does this have to do with the subject of leaving religious tracts in geocaches?

 

OH, I know. I know....

You are attempting to offer a demonstration of how a preachy item can soil a geocache by equating a preachy comment in a forum. It's genius. I get it!

I think you are attemptig to offer up this unrelated soapbox post to demonstrate that some will take any moment of opportunity, whether in a geocache or a forum thread, to publicize their agenda. Further demonstrating how inappropriate ad unwanted these tracts are.

 

Brilliant!

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flask

+flask

Posted
Posted

my neighbor's cat seems to be busy these days.

 

Tell me about the olden times, flask.

 

Tell me about the rabbits, flask.

 

Tell me about the neighbor's cat, flask.

 

she has a busy social calendar, and for now she seems to be trying to take best advantage of the shortening days.

Link to comment
Team Cotati

+Team Cotati

Posted
Posted

I work for the local SD and have many friends (detectives, patrol deputies, etc) who are involved in the Section 8 team. Their job is to investigate allegations of fraud. In nearly every case, the scams are as follows:

 

A large family consisting of a single mother, and multiple kids from "unknown" men. The mother purposely avoids naming the fathers because the state would go after them to collect support payments from them. They get other relatives to purchase expensive cars in the relative's name (this is done so they can avoid being suspended from the section 8 program due to owning vehicles with high values. They qualify for large houses, and they rent out the extra rooms to other people. When the teams investigate complaints about a "section 8 house," They find the family that qualified for the program, mulitple men who end up being the father's of the kids. They almost always find illicit drugs, stolen property, and numerous "renters" in the house. This is a longtime scam that the local mayors have discovered is the source for over 80% of the local crime rates.

 

Though you are correct about how the scam works (I had one ejected from a house nearby who was doing the exact scam you laid out) I doubt your statistics.

 

I also have to add. What in gawds name does this have to do with the subject of leaving religious tracts in geocaches?

 

OH, I know. I know....

You are attempting to offer a demonstration of how a preachy item can soil a geocache by equating a preachy comment in a forum. It's genius. I get it!

I think you are attemptig to offer up this unrelated soapbox post to demonstrate that some will take any moment of opportunity, whether in a geocache or a forum thread, to publicize their agenda. Further demonstrating how inappropriate ad unwanted these tracts are.

 

Brilliant!

 

Dead on.

 

Thanks. ;)

Link to comment
Sol seaker

+Sol seaker

Posted
Posted
We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses.

 

FYI - If you have knowledge of someone defrauding the government by collecting welfare benefits illegally then it is your civic duty to report them to the authorities. They will be prosecuted. Fraud is a serious crime and by not reporting it then that is also a crime.

 

My dept. has an entire team supported by the local Mayors, who investigate Section 8 and welfare fraud. They prosecute them left and right, but the problem is that there are thousands of people taking advantage of the system.

 

Do you work for your state offices then? If so, you are well versed in the income requirements in order to receive welfare or Section 8 Housing and the requirements of residents to provide proof of said income every quarter? The reason I ask is because many people use inflammatory rhetoric such as 'cadillac-driving welfare queens' when they really have very little knowledge about how the system actually works and the people who actually receive assistance. Certainly there is fraud and abuse, but it isn't as high as many people would like to believe with all of the safeguards that have been added to ensure that those who legitimately need help get it and those who actually don't need it, don't get it. Things have changed a lot since the 80s. ;)

 

Actually, it's really hard to get section 8 anymore, even if you are well qualified for it.

I know a number of disabled people who are trying to get it and haven't been able to.

During the Bush years you could sign up for it only one week a year and then get on a waiting list that was many years long. I knew people homeless because of it.

 

yes there are people who abuse the system. There always will be I suppose. The question is do we want to dump everyone who is legitimate into the streets because of it.

 

And SURE, I'd write this on a tract and put it into a geocache.

 

Isn't this thread about done???

Didn't someone write a NEEDS ARCHIVING on it a while ago?

Link to comment
ThePetersTrio

+ThePetersTrio

Posted
Posted
We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses.

 

FYI - If you have knowledge of someone defrauding the government by collecting welfare benefits illegally then it is your civic duty to report them to the authorities. They will be prosecuted. Fraud is a serious crime and by not reporting it then that is also a crime.

 

My dept. has an entire team supported by the local Mayors, who investigate Section 8 and welfare fraud. They prosecute them left and right, but the problem is that there are thousands of people taking advantage of the system.

 

Do you work for your state offices then? If so, you are well versed in the income requirements in order to receive welfare or Section 8 Housing and the requirements of residents to provide proof of said income every quarter? The reason I ask is because many people use inflammatory rhetoric such as 'cadillac-driving welfare queens' when they really have very little knowledge about how the system actually works and the people who actually receive assistance. Certainly there is fraud and abuse, but it isn't as high as many people would like to believe with all of the safeguards that have been added to ensure that those who legitimately need help get it and those who actually don't need it, don't get it. Things have changed a lot since the 80s. :)

 

I work for the local SD and have many friends (detectives, patrol deputies, etc) who are involved in the Section 8 team. Their job is to investigate allegations of fraud. In nearly every case, the scams are as follows:

 

A large family consisting of a single mother, and multiple kids from "unknown" men. The mother purposely avoids naming the fathers because the state would go after them to collect support payments from them. They get other relatives to purchase expensive cars in the relative's name (this is done so they can avoid being suspended from the section 8 program due to owning vehicles with high values. They qualify for large houses, and they rent out the extra rooms to other people. When the teams investigate complaints about a "section 8 house," They find the family that qualified for the program, mulitple men who end up being the father's of the kids. They almost always find illicit drugs, stolen property, and numerous "renters" in the house. This is a longtime scam that the local mayors have discovered is the source for over 80% of the local crime rates.

 

Wow I would love to see a link to back up the 80% claim. Your state is WAY different than ours.

 

The wait list for Section 8 Housing in my area is 5-7 years long.

 

All of that being said, Section 8 is only part of what I had asked you about. I guess you aren't clear on the requirements for people applying for food stamps or other welfare assistance in your area then?

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TrailGators

+TrailGators

Posted
Posted
Any one politican can create a good system.

Based on my own observations, I would question that.

My experience is that there is no system, service or process so bad, that it can't be screwed up by 'gubment' intervention.

 

There are normally good intentions in solving a real issue all the way down the line.

Would those be the oft cited 'Road to Hades' paving blocks? :)

I agree. The government could screw up a one car funeral. As far as good intentions, those are irrelevant.
Link to comment
ThePetersTrio

+ThePetersTrio

Posted
Posted (edited)
Any one politican can create a good system.

Based on my own observations, I would question that.

My experience is that there is no system, service or process so bad, that it can't be screwed up by 'gubment' intervention.

 

There are normally good intentions in solving a real issue all the way down the line.

Would those be the oft cited 'Road to Hades' paving blocks? :)

I agree. The government could screw up a one car funeral. As far as good intentions, those are irrelevant.

 

I certainly hope that while you are throwing terms out like "the government" that you are taking into account the countless dedicated employees who work in all various branches of government - you know, like our brave men and women in the military, FBI, CIA, FDA, our police and firefighters, our teachers, our doctors and nurses, our librarians, etc. etc.

 

FWIW, I get my hackles up with people disparage large industries without regard to the individuals who work for them - such as the insurance industry. As much as we (collected we) like to throw blanket statements out there such as "the insurance industry is nothing but a bunch greedy pigs feeding at the trough of the ill" the fact is that they employ many people who are good and honorable employees who do care about the health and welfare of their customers.

 

I have dedicated my life to public service. I could easily make more money in the private sector but choose to serve my community instead. I know it is fashionable these days to disparage "the government" - I get it. But frankly many of us who work for "the government" deserve your respect and thanks - such as many of those in the groups I mentioned above.

Edited by ThePetersTrio
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TrailGators

+TrailGators

Posted
Posted (edited)
yes there are people who abuse the system. There always will be I suppose. The question is do we want to dump everyone who is legitimate into the streets because of it.

 

And SURE, I'd write this on a tract and put it into a geocache.

 

You can help people AND at the same time fix the process....

 

How about this for a tract? Unemployment is still rising and is now up to 10.2% from 6% a year ago. So more people are being dumped. What is congress (opposite of progress) doing about this. Answer = NOTHING!

Edited by TrailGators
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Chrysalides

+Chrysalides

Posted
Posted

I notice that:

 

1) the OP who lighted this particular fire has not been back in the forums

 

2) the mods have given up on this one but are happily sitting back watching the train wreck instead of locking it. It's definitely one of the more active threads.

 

3) I'm contributing to the OT

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TrailGators

+TrailGators

Posted
Posted
Any one politican can create a good system.

Based on my own observations, I would question that.

My experience is that there is no system, service or process so bad, that it can't be screwed up by 'gubment' intervention.

 

There are normally good intentions in solving a real issue all the way down the line.

Would those be the oft cited 'Road to Hades' paving blocks? :)

I agree. The government could screw up a one car funeral. As far as good intentions, those are irrelevant.

 

I certainly hope that while you are throwing terms out like "the government" that you are taking into account the countless dedicated employees who work in all various branches of government - you know, like our brave men and women in the military, FBI, CIA, FDA, our police and firefighters, our teachers, our doctors and nurses, our librarians, etc. etc.

 

FWIW, I get my hackles up with people disparage large industries without regard to the individuals who work for them - such as the insurance industry. As much as we (collected we) like to throw blanket statements out there such as "the insurance industry is nothing but a bunch greedy pigs feeding at the trough of the ill" the fact is that they employ many people who are good and honorable employees who do care about the health and welfare of their customers.

 

I have dedicated my life to public service. I could easily make more money in the private sector but choose to serve my community instead. I know it is fashionable these days to disparage "the government" - I get it. But frankly many of us who work for "the government" deserve your respect and thanks - such as many of those in the groups I mentioned above.

I was only referring to our "leadership" in government, but I think you knew that....

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ThePetersTrio

+ThePetersTrio

Posted
Posted
Any one politican can create a good system.

Based on my own observations, I would question that.

My experience is that there is no system, service or process so bad, that it can't be screwed up by 'gubment' intervention.

 

There are normally good intentions in solving a real issue all the way down the line.

Would those be the oft cited 'Road to Hades' paving blocks? :)

I agree. The government could screw up a one car funeral. As far as good intentions, those are irrelevant.

 

I certainly hope that while you are throwing terms out like "the government" that you are taking into account the countless dedicated employees who work in all various branches of government - you know, like our brave men and women in the military, FBI, CIA, FDA, our police and firefighters, our teachers, our doctors and nurses, our librarians, etc. etc.

 

FWIW, I get my hackles up with people disparage large industries without regard to the individuals who work for them - such as the insurance industry. As much as we (collected we) like to throw blanket statements out there such as "the insurance industry is nothing but a bunch greedy pigs feeding at the trough of the ill" the fact is that they employ many people who are good and honorable employees who do care about the health and welfare of their customers.

 

I have dedicated my life to public service. I could easily make more money in the private sector but choose to serve my community instead. I know it is fashionable these days to disparage "the government" - I get it. But frankly many of us who work for "the government" deserve your respect and thanks - such as many of those in the groups I mentioned above.

I was only referring to our "leadership" in government, but I think you knew that....

 

Nope - couldn't tell. Thanks for the clarification.

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Team Cotati

+Team Cotati

Posted
Posted (edited)

I notice that:

 

1) the OP who lighted this particular fire has not been back in the forums

 

2) the mods have given up on this one but are happily sitting back watching the train wreck instead of locking it. It's definitely one of the more active threads.

 

3) I'm contributing to the OT

 

Where do you get this special insight into what the mods are doing, not doing, thinking....at any give point in time?

 

I'm very envious.

Edited by Team Cotati
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