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Religious Propaganda


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I'd like to pose a question to those who have so vigorously defended the practice of spamming caches with bible tracts. I hope you will respond.

While I don't think I've "vigorously" defended the practice, I can still address your questions.

1 ) Would it be ok with you if someone put tracts in all the caches in your area? Yes. I haven't reached the point in my life where I am so intolerant of the opinions of others that I'd let the existance of scraps of paper stating these opinions bother me.

2 ) Tracts that say that all infidel Christians are wrong and that Allah is the one true route to salvation? Yes. See above. It's just an opinion.

3 ) How about if they show photos of infidel Christians being put to death and made to suffer in the afterlife? No. I think acts, or threats of violence cross the line behind what is OK for a child to stumble upon and what is not.

4 ) How about if they said that the children of infidels would be better off dead than to live on believing a lie? No. See above.

5 ) Would you be ok with those tracts? See above.

6 ) Would you leave them in the cache? Which ones?

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I'd like to pose a question to those who have so vigorously defended the practice of spamming caches with bible tracts. I hope you will respond.

 

Would it be ok with you if someone put tracts in all the caches in your area? Tracts that say that all infidel Christians are wrong and that Allah is the one true route to salvation? How about if they show photos of infidel Christians being put to death and made to suffer in the afterlife? How about if they said that the children of infidels would be better off dead than to live on believing a lie?

 

Would you be ok with those tracts? Would you leave them in the cache?

 

Apparently you weren't aware of the fact that Christians are still persecuted all over the world in mostly Islamic nations. http://www.persecution.org/suffering/count...46828483e0286f5 There is far more hatred being preached by Islamic fundementalists than by Christians any day.

 

Would I care if someone placed those in caches, the answer is no. They have the right to free speech just as I do.

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I'd like to pose a question to those who have so vigorously defended the practice of spamming caches with bible tracts. I hope you will respond.

 

Would it be ok with you if someone put tracts in all the caches in your area? Tracts that say that all infidel Christians are wrong and that Allah is the one true route to salvation? How about if they show photos of infidel Christians being put to death and made to suffer in the afterlife? How about if they said that the children of infidels would be better off dead than to live on believing a lie?

 

Would you be ok with those tracts? Would you leave them in the cache?

 

Apparently you weren't aware of the fact that Christians are still persecuted all over the world in mostly Islamic nations. http://www.persecution.org/suffering/count...46828483e0286f5 There is far more hatred being preached by Islamic fundementalists than by Christians any day.

 

Would I care if someone placed those in caches, the answer is no. They have the right to free speech just as I do.

 

Actually, Kitfox, I'm quite aware of the persecution that you refer to. I also don't think it's right to point to bad behavior on the part of others to justify your own bad behavior. Persecution of anyone is wrong.

 

It's beside the point that geocaching is a "light and family friendly activity". Tracts like those I linked to above are anything BUT light and family friendly.

Edited by Okiebryan
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Would I care if someone placed those in caches, the answer is no. They have the right to free speech just as I do.

 

Isn't the cache private property though(bit of a gray area but still)?

 

Free speech does not exted to private property.

Since, when you place a geocache, you are still responsible for it, the argument would be made that the cache IS private property and that free speech does not extend to geocaches.

 

For those who WILL argue that Groundspeak would not have the right to limit the agenda of a geocache, they are correct, in a sense. While it could be argued that the term "geocache" is a broad term, geocaching.com (AKA Groundspeak) CAN regulate what they list on their site.

 

So, while you can have a geocache (using the broadened terminology) with an agenda, you are not guaranteed that geocaching.com will list the cache on their site. In fact, you aren't guaranteed anything.

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Oh, here's a lovely piece of work from Mr. Chick. Imagine if a little kid found this one in a cache!

 

Lisa

 

Oh what a sweet little story about how a ........ was saved!

 

Yeah, I ain't buyin it.

 

That is EXACTLY why I say religious tracts don't belong in caches. If you accept one, you have to accept them all. Where would you draw the line?

 

I draw the line at NONE!

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Once again, we live in a world where everyone's opinion matters. But, it seems like their opinion matters the most. Whether you like or dislike religious tracts, it doesn't matter. If you enjoy them, read them, if you don't, don't read them. Simple as that. Some people don't like micros, some don't like chicken. Who cares???? Why do people feel it's their obligation to tell the whole world about what they don't like? They are put there to read and maybe, just maybe, change one persons life. What does it hurt if they are in there? If I found a tract about another religion, I would either read it or not read it. People seem to think that their belief is the majority. Obviously, there is no compassion and love for one another. I fully agree with Kit Fox.

 

Galatians 6:2

Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

 

Proverbs 19:17

He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

Link to comment

I'd like to pose a question to those who have so vigorously defended the practice of spamming caches with bible tracts. I hope you will respond.

 

Would it be ok with you if someone put tracts in all the caches in your area? Tracts that say that all infidel Christians are wrong and that Allah is the one true route to salvation? How about if they show photos of infidel Christians being put to death and made to suffer in the afterlife? How about if they said that the children of infidels would be better off dead than to live on believing a lie?

 

Would you be ok with those tracts? Would you leave them in the cache?

 

It's just another expression of opinion. In a free society it's a non-problem. My faith or lack of faith isn't going to be affected by a piece of paper I happen across.

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I was finding caches for four years before I found Jesus...

 

That must have been a very large cache.

 

I'm more interested in what they traded for Jesus?!!! :rolleyes:

Took Deity, left Mctoy? <_<

(Am I going to Hell for that?) :lol:

 

No problems with name calling, nobody told anyone they were going to hell, great job everyone!

And only one Godwin's Law invocation! :huh:

 

Irrefutable proof that there is a God, and she has a sense of humor!

Fixed it for ya, Ed! :D

 

Back on topic, religous tracts don't bother me in caches.

Thanx for steering us back on topic. :P

I too choose not to be offended by scraps of paper.

 

Thank you.

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I found a religious tract today in the W. Branch Farmington River- Steel Bridge cache at N 42° 04.225 W 073° 03.724.

 

Geocaching is not a religious forum and religious propaganda does not belong in a cache. Some of us find this material offensive. If you insist on propagandizing, at least take credit for your actions and put your name on your material so that the rest of us will know who the offending cachers are.

 

Very well said, I agree. I remove them from caches and then notify the CO that an offensive item was removed from their cache.

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I found a religious tract today in the W. Branch Farmington River- Steel Bridge cache at N 42° 04.225 W 073° 03.724.

 

Geocaching is not a religious forum and religious propaganda does not belong in a cache. Some of us find this material offensive. If you insist on propagandizing, at least take credit for your actions and put your name on your material so that the rest of us will know who the offending cachers are.

 

Very well said, I agree. I remove them from caches and then notify the CO that an offensive item was removed from their cache.

 

Remove it and be quiet about it.

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Very well said, I agree. I remove them from caches and then notify the CO that an offensive item was removed from their cache.

 

I just want to thank you for the public service that you cache-police do. Putting your life on the line to make sure that Geocachers precious eyes don't have to fall upon something that offends them.

 

Whatever would we do without our cache-enforcers? <_<

 

:lol::rolleyes:

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I found a religious tract today in the W. Branch Farmington River- Steel Bridge cache at N 42° 04.225 W 073° 03.724.

 

Geocaching is not a religious forum and religious propaganda does not belong in a cache. Some of us find this material offensive. If you insist on propagandizing, at least take credit for your actions and put your name on your material so that the rest of us will know who the offending cachers are.

 

Very well said, I agree. I remove them from caches and then notify the CO that an offensive item was removed from their cache.

 

Remove it and be quiet about it.

 

Why do you have a problem with a CO knowing an offensive item was in their cache?

Link to comment

I found a religious tract today in the W. Branch Farmington River- Steel Bridge cache at N 42° 04.225 W 073° 03.724.

 

Geocaching is not a religious forum and religious propaganda does not belong in a cache. Some of us find this material offensive. If you insist on propagandizing, at least take credit for your actions and put your name on your material so that the rest of us will know who the offending cachers are.

 

Very well said, I agree. I remove them from caches and then notify the CO that an offensive item was removed from their cache.

 

Remove it and be quiet about it.

 

Why do you have a problem with a CO knowing an offensive item was in their cache?

 

Because as you can well see, it would be very likely that the CO might not agree that something is 'offensive' just because you do. Contention and disagreeableness are sure to follow.

 

Trade it out if you wish, remove it if you wish, do not blab about it, not even to the CO.

Of course we are talking about religious tracts and the like here. Should you discover something that can likely be a physical hazard or danger, then by all means after safely removing it, properly dispose of it and then notify the CO.

 

Of course the CO might not agree that the item was 'dangerous' or worthy of removal.

 

Deal with it. You might even get a gold star, one never knows these days. My personal approach is the less said, the better.

 

Religious tracts do not belong in geocaches.

Edited by Team Cotati
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I found a religious tract today in the W. Branch Farmington River- Steel Bridge cache at N 42° 04.225 W 073° 03.724.

 

Geocaching is not a religious forum and religious propaganda does not belong in a cache. Some of us find this material offensive. If you insist on propagandizing, at least take credit for your actions and put your name on your material so that the rest of us will know who the offending cachers are.

 

Very well said, I agree. I remove them from caches and then notify the CO that an offensive item was removed from their cache.

 

Remove it and be quiet about it.

 

Why do you have a problem with a CO knowing an offensive item was in their cache?

 

Because as you can well see, it would be very likely that the CO might not agree that something is 'offensive' just because you do. Contention and disagreeableness are sure to follow.

 

Trade it out if you wish, remove it if you wish, do not blab about it, not even to the CO.

Of course we are talking about religious tracts and the like here. Should you discover something that can likely be a physical hazard or danger, then by all means after safely removing it, properly dispose of it and then notify the CO.

 

Of course the CO might not agree that the item was 'dangerous' or worthy of removal.

 

Deal with it. You might even get a gold star, one never knows these days. My personal approach is the less said, the better.

 

Religious tracts do not belong in geocaches.

 

Aren't you contradicting yourself, by saying, "My personal approach is the less said, the better.

"

And then coming back with, "Religious tracts do not belong in geocaches."

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Actually, Kitfox, I'm quite aware of the persecution that you refer to. I also don't think it's right to point to bad behavior on the part of others to justify your own bad behavior. Persecution of anyone is wrong.

 

It's beside the point that geocaching is a "light and family friendly activity". Tracts like those I linked to above are anything BUT light and family friendly.

 

Please enlighten me as to what my bad behavior is. In 5 1/2 years of geocaching I have never placed a religious tract, or anything deemed offensive in a geocache. I've also never hidden a single cache underneath a lamppost cover, in a Walmart parking lot, in an alley, in a homeless encampment, or under a mailbox.

 

Would I care if someone placed those in caches, the answer is no. They have the right to free speech just as I do.

 

Isn't the cache private property though(bit of a gray area but still)?

 

Geocaches are considered abandoned property / litter by many govt. entities.

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Would I care if someone placed those in caches, the answer is no. They have the right to free speech just as I do.

 

Isn't the cache private property though(bit of a gray area but still)?

 

Free speech does not exted to private property.

Since, when you place a geocache, you are still responsible for it, the argument would be made that the cache IS private property and that free speech does not extend to geocaches.

 

For those who WILL argue that Groundspeak would not have the right to limit the agenda of a geocache, they are correct, in a sense. While it could be argued that the term "geocache" is a broad term, geocaching.com (AKA Groundspeak) CAN regulate what they list on their site.

 

So, while you can have a geocache (using the broadened terminology) with an agenda, you are not guaranteed that geocaching.com will list the cache on their site. In fact, you aren't guaranteed anything.

 

Actually in a sense no, caches aren't private property. You have placed it in a public access area, published it on a public access web-site, and invited the general public to come and find it. You have also invited the public to access your cache as they see fit to trade from it. Even if you have placed your cache on private lands with the permission of the land's owner, you and the land's owner are still inviting the general public in to the lands that you have obtained permission to do so. You have accepted and agreed to the responsibilty of maintining this now public cache as public service.

 

On topic; The literature, icons, or whatever material you wish to leave behind relating to whatever belief you choose to represent in the cache are not prohibited by the broad brush of the guidelines. So may they be left behind? Sure. As someone who has been invited to come seek this cache, can I do as I please with the contents of the cache as long as I follow the spirit of the guidelines? Sure. If that means trading for one of your icons or tracts as I see fit, taking into account my valuation of that item then that is perfectly allowable.

 

Back off topic- Whoever that was that found the glow-n-dark Nun, get with me I am a collector of Glow-n-dark stuff from caches and my prior aquisitions need some fresh insight on their discussions.

 

IMG_0236-1.jpgIMG_0247-1.jpgIMG_0255-1.jpgIMG_0242-1.jpg

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Why does an 'all-knowing, all-seeing' diety need advertising flyers?

 

Maybe for the same reasons that psychics need to advertise their conferences? :rolleyes:

 

Oh, here's a lovely piece of work from Mr. Chick. Imagine if a little kid found this one in a cache!

 

Lisa

 

Is that what they are?? Holy carp, what trash!

I've never seen one before, and thought that what was being discussed was some tracts with hot looking female characters like the Pussycat Dolls and Xena and Wonder Woman! I'd trade for those, but wouldn't trash them out.

Edited by wimseyguy
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I'd like to pose a question to those who have so vigorously defended the practice of spamming caches with bible tracts. I hope you will respond.

 

Would it be ok with you if someone put tracts in all the caches in your area? Tracts that say that all infidel Christians are wrong and that Allah is the one true route to salvation? How about if they show photos of infidel Christians being put to death and made to suffer in the afterlife? How about if they said that the children of infidels would be better off dead than to live on believing a lie?

 

Would you be ok with those tracts? Would you leave them in the cache?

 

Apparently you weren't aware of the fact that Christians are still persecuted all over the world in mostly Islamic nations. http://www.persecution.org/suffering/count...46828483e0286f5 There is far more hatred being preached by Islamic fundementalists than by Christians any day.

 

Would I care if someone placed those in caches, the answer is no. They have the right to free speech just as I do.

 

I think we probably share positions on this topic. But I get a kick out of those that refer to "free speech" completely out of context, at least if you're referring to our beloved Constitution.

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I found a religious tract today in the W. Branch Farmington River- Steel Bridge cache at N 42° 04.225 W 073° 03.724.

 

Geocaching is not a religious forum and religious propaganda does not belong in a cache. Some of us find this material offensive. If you insist on propagandizing, at least take credit for your actions and put your name on your material so that the rest of us will know who the offending cachers are.

 

Very well said, I agree. I remove them from caches and then notify the CO that an offensive item was removed from their cache.

 

Remove it and be quiet about it.

 

Why do you have a problem with a CO knowing an offensive item was in their cache?

 

Because as you can well see, it would be very likely that the CO might not agree that something is 'offensive' just because you do. Contention and disagreeableness are sure to follow.

 

Trade it out if you wish, remove it if you wish, do not blab about it, not even to the CO.

Of course we are talking about religious tracts and the like here. Should you discover something that can likely be a physical hazard or danger, then by all means after safely removing it, properly dispose of it and then notify the CO.

 

Of course the CO might not agree that the item was 'dangerous' or worthy of removal.

 

Deal with it. You might even get a gold star, one never knows these days. My personal approach is the less said, the better.

 

Religious tracts do not belong in geocaches.

 

Aren't you contradicting yourself, by saying, "My personal approach is the less said, the better.

"

And then coming back with, "Religious tracts do not belong in geocaches."

 

Well I do not see it that way, of course. I can however see how you might choose to. Deal with it.

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I found a religious tract today in the W. Branch Farmington River- Steel Bridge cache at N 42° 04.225 W 073° 03.724.

 

Geocaching is not a religious forum and religious propaganda does not belong in a cache. Some of us find this material offensive. If you insist on propagandizing, at least take credit for your actions and put your name on your material so that the rest of us will know who the offending cachers are.

 

Very well said, I agree. I remove them from caches and then notify the CO that an offensive item was removed from their cache.

 

Remove it and be quiet about it.

 

Why do you have a problem with a CO knowing an offensive item was in their cache?

 

Because as you can well see, it would be very likely that the CO might not agree that something is 'offensive' just because you do. Contention and disagreeableness are sure to follow.

 

Trade it out if you wish, remove it if you wish, do not blab about it, not even to the CO.

Of course we are talking about religious tracts and the like here. Should you discover something that can likely be a physical hazard or danger, then by all means after safely removing it, properly dispose of it and then notify the CO.

 

Of course the CO might not agree that the item was 'dangerous' or worthy of removal.

 

Deal with it. You might even get a gold star, one never knows these days. My personal approach is the less said, the better.

 

Religious tracts do not belong in geocaches.

 

Aren't you contradicting yourself, by saying, "My personal approach is the less said, the better.

"

And then coming back with, "Religious tracts do not belong in geocaches."

 

Well I do not see it that way, of course. I can however see how you might choose to. Deal with it.

 

I will. Make sure you can deal with the subject also.

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Actually, Kitfox, I'm quite aware of the persecution that you refer to. I also don't think it's right to point to bad behavior on the part of others to justify your own bad behavior. Persecution of anyone is wrong.

 

It's beside the point that geocaching is a "light and family friendly activity". Tracts like those I linked to above are anything BUT light and family friendly.

 

Please enlighten me as to what my bad behavior is. In 5 1/2 years of geocaching I have never placed a religious tract, or anything deemed offensive in a geocache. I've also never hidden a single cache underneath a lamppost cover, in a Walmart parking lot, in an alley, in a homeless encampment, or under a mailbox.

 

 

If you don't know, am sorry for you and I pray for your enlightenment.

 

Edit: Trying to fix these quotes.

Edited by Col. Flagg
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Once again, we live in a world where everyone's opinion matters. But, it seems like their opinion matters the most. Whether you like or dislike religious tracts, it doesn't matter. If you enjoy them, read them, if you don't, don't read them. Simple as that. Some people don't like micros, some don't like chicken. Who cares???? Why do people feel it's their obligation to tell the whole world about what they don't like? They are put there to read and maybe, just maybe, change one persons life. What does it hurt if they are in there? If I found a tract about another religion, I would either read it or not read it. People seem to think that their belief is the majority. Obviously, there is no compassion and love for one another. I fully agree with Kit Fox.

As I've mentioned before, I won't deliberately remove religious tract from a geocache even though I don't think it is an appropriate place for them unless they are wet. And no, I do not deliberately wet them just so that I can justify to myself they should be removed.

 

Now, I'd like to point to what you said above. One category of "religious" tracts mentioned in this tracts are basically hate literature, which goes on about things or people the group doesn't like, and how those who disagree with them will burn in hell for it. In your opinion, should you adopt the "live and let live" attitude towards such hate literature?

 

I've said that I would remove them if I encounter them. I have never encountered them to this point.

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Actually, Kitfox, I'm quite aware of the persecution that you refer to. I also don't think it's right to point to bad behavior on the part of others to justify your own bad behavior. Persecution of anyone is wrong.

 

It's beside the point that geocaching is a "light and family friendly activity". Tracts like those I linked to above are anything BUT light and family friendly.

 

Please enlighten me as to what my bad behavior is. In 5 1/2 years of geocaching I have never placed a religious tract, or anything deemed offensive in a geocache. I've also never hidden a single cache underneath a lamppost cover, in a Walmart parking lot, in an alley, in a homeless encampment, or under a mailbox.

 

 

If you don't know, am sorry for you and I pray for your enlightenment.

 

Edit: Trying to fix these quotes.

 

Whatever Kit Fox's shortcomings are, that's a canned response and pretty arrogant at that.. what age are you? 12?

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Very well said, I agree. I remove them from caches and then notify the CO that an offensive item was removed from their cache.

 

I just want to thank you for the public service that you cache-police do. Putting your life on the line to make sure that Geocachers precious eyes don't have to fall upon something that offends them.

 

Whatever would we do without our cache-enforcers? :rolleyes:

 

:ph34r:;)

 

You are welcome.

 

In case you didn't know this already, geocaching is, for the most part, a self policing activity. Without the "cache police" there would be much worse caching conditions.

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Once again, we live in a world where everyone's opinion matters. But, it seems like their opinion matters the most. Whether you like or dislike religious tracts, it doesn't matter. If you enjoy them, read them, if you don't, don't read them. Simple as that. Some people don't like micros, some don't like chicken. Who cares???? Why do people feel it's their obligation to tell the whole world about what they don't like? They are put there to read and maybe, just maybe, change one persons life. What does it hurt if they are in there? If I found a tract about another religion, I would either read it or not read it. People seem to think that their belief is the majority. Obviously, there is no compassion and love for one another. I fully agree with Kit Fox.

 

Galatians 6:2

Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

 

Proverbs 19:17

He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

 

Heh, heh, this one is funny considering how the "right wing" claims to be so religious and yet are the ones who complain the loudest about their money going to help those who are poor.

 

I know. It was off-topic. Sorry. It just struck me as a little funny.

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Once again, we live in a world where everyone's opinion matters. But, it seems like their opinion matters the most. Whether you like or dislike religious tracts, it doesn't matter. If you enjoy them, read them, if you don't, don't read them. Simple as that. Some people don't like micros, some don't like chicken. Who cares???? Why do people feel it's their obligation to tell the whole world about what they don't like? They are put there to read and maybe, just maybe, change one persons life. What does it hurt if they are in there? If I found a tract about another religion, I would either read it or not read it. People seem to think that their belief is the majority. Obviously, there is no compassion and love for one another. I fully agree with Kit Fox.

 

Galatians 6:2

Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

 

Proverbs 19:17

He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

 

Heh, heh, this one is funny considering how the "right wing" claims to be so religious and yet are the ones who complain the loudest about their money going to help those who are poor.

 

I know. It was off-topic. Sorry. It just struck me as a little funny.

 

I guess you are not lucky enough to live in a welfare state like I do. We have thousands of people who collect welfare, and they get Section 8 funds to rent houses. These people live in $300,000 plus homes, while collecting welfare, driving Cadillac Escalades, and Lincoln Navigators. They breed like rabbits (even though they can't afford to feed their children) and collect more money for the "out of wedlock" kids. If you feel so compassionate, come down here to "Socal" and donate your money to them.

 

Conservatives More Liberal Givers

Conservatives give more to charity

Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year versus $1,227).

 

Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.

 

Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.

 

Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.

 

In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.

Edited by Kit Fox
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Why do people feel it's their obligation to tell the whole world about what they don't like?

 

Are you saying that you don't like it when people do that?

 

My personal opinion is that there is an epidemic of co-dependence sweeping this country.

 

This desperate need to tell someone, anyone, every little detail of your mostly routine boring life.

 

Like, don't like, what you are eating, where you are going, when you get back, what the weather is doing, when that changes, seeking some sort of approval for the most insignificant of things.

 

Astounding.

 

I for one do not see this as a good thing.

Edited by Team Cotati
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Where is the last post that mentioned how they felt about religious tracts in caches?

 

not that long ago.

 

people keep appending their opinion on that as sad little non-sequiturs on their other comments, which strikes me as disingenuous at best.

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Actually, Kitfox, I'm quite aware of the persecution that you refer to. I also don't think it's right to point to bad behavior on the part of others to justify your own bad behavior. Persecution of anyone is wrong.

 

It's beside the point that geocaching is a "light and family friendly activity". Tracts like those I linked to above are anything BUT light and family friendly.

 

Please enlighten me as to what my bad behavior is. In 5 1/2 years of geocaching I have never placed a religious tract, or anything deemed offensive in a geocache. I've also never hidden a single cache underneath a lamppost cover, in a Walmart parking lot, in an alley, in a homeless encampment, or under a mailbox.

 

 

If you don't know, am sorry for you and I pray for your enlightenment.

 

Edit: Trying to fix these quotes.

 

Whatever Kit Fox's shortcomings are, that's a canned response and pretty arrogant at that.. what age are you? 12?

 

You can't realize that KitFox was bating someone to point out his shortcomings just like someone was scolding him for pointing out others. He knows what he is saying, do you? Why do you care anyway.

 

On a another note, I move to have this thread locked it is full of hate, is getting worse and is nowhere on topic.

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You can't realize that KitFox was bating someone to point out his shortcomings just like someone was scolding him for pointing out others. He knows what he is saying, do you? Why do you care anyway.

 

On a another note, I move to have this thread locked it is full of hate, is getting worse and is nowhere on topic.

 

Lock this thread? Nonsense. It has stayed on topic if you read between the lines.

This thread has proven that the advertisement of a religion is, in fact, an agenda. It has proven that religious tracts are not swag but rather attempts to convert those who "need" converting according to the criteria specified within the tracts.

It has shown that there are many religious people who wouldn't have a problem with tracts, many non religious people who wouldn't have a problem and bothe groups who WOULD have a problem with them.

It has shown great intolerance for the beliefs of others (oddly by those who profess to follow Jesus) and much tolerance for some as well.

 

There are many lessons within this thread that relate to caching and the leaving of religious tracts.

 

To close a thread of this worth, simply because of a few people who stray horribly off-topic, posting their own agenda, would not best serve the geocaching community.

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For the record, Kitfox... when I said "your bad behavior" I meant that generically, not specifically. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Let me check the off-topic-freefall-drift meter and see where this thread is...

 

drift_veer.gif

 

Hmmm... let's see. Religion, now politics, and little to no mention of religious propaganda in caches. I think it's time to shut this one down.

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Something I've seen in my brief tour of this lil' blue marble we all call home is behavior that most would find intolerable, coming from many different fronts, and directed at many different fronts. I've seen violence directed at gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals. I've also seen violence dispensed by gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals. I've seen loving care directed at gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals, and I've seen loving care dispensed by gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals.

 

(So, Riffster, how is this anywhere close to being on topic?)

 

Something bittsen mentioned a while back caught my eye. To paraphrase:

Accept all tracts in caches, or get rid of all tracts in caches. (something to that effect)

Found it!

I say religious tracts don't belong in caches. If you accept one, you have to accept them all.

For myself, I can't accept that standard.

 

Good is good, regardless of the source.

Evil is evil, regardless of the source.

 

A tract, in and of itself, is just a scrap of paper, providing an opinion by a particular author.

As a whole, they cannot be classified as good or evil. That would be dependant upon the message they try to convey.

 

A tract that provides a simple message of love should be at home with the rest of the swag.

 

A tract that preaches hate should be removed as trash and disposed of.

 

Just one ole fat guys $0.02 ;)

 

Edit to add quote...

Edited by Clan Riffster
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My personal opinion is that there is an epidemic of co-dependence sweeping this country.

 

This desperate need to tell someone, anyone, every little detail of your mostly routine boring life.

 

Like, don't like, what you are eating, where you are going, when you get back, what the weather is doing, when that changes, seeking some sort of approval for the most insignificant of things.

 

Astounding.

 

I for one do not see this as a good thing.

 

I think you are bang on. (not sure how this relates the the tread though). Twiter and Facebook are perfect examples. I like to share my mountain top caching experiences, but not every little detail of my life. That is why I do not have a Facebook account.

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...

Good is good, regardless of the source.

Evil is evil, regardless of the source.

 

A tract that provides a simple message of love should be at home with the rest of the swag.

 

A tract that preaches hate should be removed as trash and disposed of.

 

Just one ole fat guys $0.02 ;)...

 

I think the problem is that no one can aggree on what is a "simple message of love" vs "preaching hate".

 

Then there is the issue of fact vs fiction. The anti-Muslim tract that Okiebryan linked to has an interesting story about the origins of Islam. I have never studied the history, so I realy can't speak to the authenticity of the story. If the story is fiction, then that tract would be preaching "hate". But if it is fact, then it is just that, fact. And let's face it, no one will agree if a story like that is fact or fiction. But I guess, a tract like that could not be seen as a "simple message of love" no mater if it is fact or fiction, so maybe you still have a point.

Edited by Andronicus
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"Something I've seen in my brief tour of this lil' blue marble we all call home is behavior that most would find intolerable, coming from many different fronts, and directed at many different fronts. I've seen violence directed at gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals. I've also seen violence dispensed by gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals. I've seen loving care directed at gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals, and I've seen loving care dispensed by gays, straights, Christians, Muslims, blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, women, men, conservatives and liberals."

 

This can't possibly be true. Is that from a reliable source? How did such observations stay so well hidden for so long?

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Actually, Kitfox, I'm quite aware of the persecution that you refer to. I also don't think it's right to point to bad behavior on the part of others to justify your own bad behavior. Persecution of anyone is wrong.

 

It's beside the point that geocaching is a "light and family friendly activity". Tracts like those I linked to above are anything BUT light and family friendly.

 

Please enlighten me as to what my bad behavior is. In 5 1/2 years of geocaching I have never placed a religious tract, or anything deemed offensive in a geocache. I've also never hidden a single cache underneath a lamppost cover, in a Walmart parking lot, in an alley, in a homeless encampment, or under a mailbox.

 

Would I care if someone placed those in caches, the answer is no. They have the right to free speech just as I do.

 

Isn't the cache private property though(bit of a gray area but still)?

 

Geocaches are considered abandoned property / litter by many govt. entities.

 

Great... then I'll note these tracts as litter and toss 'em when I find them. Go CITO! ;)

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Swimming against the tide and attempting to regain 'on topic' ground...

 

I'd be interested to know if anyone's opinions on the subject of religious tracts in caches has changed from following this thread.

 

I know mine certainly haven't and won't, since I try to take a moderate approach to everything in life, I try to avoid excessive hyperbole and overreaction... however my opinion on some forum members has been changed... or rather it has been thoroughly enlightening for me to see where people position themselves.

 

;)

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Swimming against the tide and attempting to regain 'on topic' ground...

 

I'd be interested to know if anyone's opinions on the subject of religious tracts in caches has changed from following this thread.

 

I know mine certainly haven't and won't, since I try to take a moderate approach to everything in life, I try to avoid excessive hyperbole and overreaction... however my opinion on some forum members has been changed... or rather it has been thoroughly enlightening for me to see where people position themselves.

 

;)

Mine haven't changed. Live and let live as much as possible. I know where the line is and I have yet to seen it crossed with the scant amount of religious tracts I've come across. Maybe other areas are far worse than out here. My bet is that it is only one or two culprits are dropping them into caches in those areas. Remember that one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch! Edited by TrailGators
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