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Religious Propaganda

Trombone Man

By Trombone Man
in General geocaching topics

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ThePetersTrio

+ThePetersTrio

Posted
Posted (edited)
"Those that refuse to believe in God don't have a problem with belief, rather it is their lack of willingness to accept information that challenges long-held positions.

 

This is absolutely false for me. I once believed and was willing to accept the information that "challenged" my previously held position.

 

Then some people who claimed that they knew THE ONLY WAY and who then turned around and acted in the very antithesis of Jesus' message again "challenged" my previously held position and my belief system again changed.

 

I find this quote you posted to be very much in line with the way those people who claimed to know THE ONLY WAY spoke and acted, BTW.

 

That is common nature and proof of man's wickedness.

 

Then why would you post such a quote? You seem to be missing the point - anyone who tells me that THEY know the TRUTH about (insert deity here) and everyone else is (insert derrogatory remark/assumed shortcoming here) then they have effectively ended the conversation.

Edited by ThePetersTrio
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Cpl. Klinger

+Cpl. Klinger

Posted
Posted

 

I don't see many non Christian groups out feeding the homeless, in fact i've never seen a non christian group feeding the homeless in my area.

 

There are a lot of groups that are non Christians that feed the homeless, what about all the people who donate to food banks, gleaners food bank is a non for profit group in my area, they are not even affiliated with any religion and they feed tons and tons of people. In some religions it is sinful to stand up and say "I am good because I....(fill in the blank)" Don't boast, just do it.

 

Edit:spelling

 

I wasn't being boastful nor was I looking for adulation. Being boastful and filled with pride is contrary to what my bible and my church teach. I look at it as giving in God's name, not for notoriety.

 

But what about the rest of it? Matthew 6 takes a wholly different view of giving...

 

1“Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

 

2“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

 

I'll leave it at that. Anything else I could think of to say was too snarky, and I am trying to maintain an even keel today.

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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted

 

1“Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

 

2“So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

 

I'll leave it at that. Anything else I could think of to say was too snarky, and I am trying to maintain an even keel today.

 

I haven't read Matthew in a few years, and didn't remember that verse. It is a good verse that I agree with. I actually omitted other acts of giving, because they didn't relate to the debate. One of the best ways to give to others without being boastful is to sponsor a child through World Vision, or Feed the Hungry.

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El Diablo

+El Diablo

Posted
Posted

Just because some of you wish to deny Christ, don't deny someone elses chances of knowing Him.

 

Seriously? I think Christ gets plenty of press in more appropriate places. A piece of paper in a cache has about as much chance of turning my life around as the spam that hits my inbox and the robo-calls that I get all day at the office. It's noise. It's unwanted, unsolicited, unrequested, unnecessary noise. The only people that appreciate finding these things are the already initiated.

 

Don't deny me my chance to spend a couple of hours in the woods (away from commercials, ad banners, and road signs) looking for ammo cans with what is just another sales pitch.

 

Could I ignore it? Sure.

 

Could the person with a handful of pamphlets fresh off the xerox machine ignore the cache? You bet.

 

You might be surprised at the little things that can, and do turn peoples life's around.

 

Back on topic. This has been discusssed many times over the years, and always with the same results. there are those for, and those against. It has never changed. Go back and read some of the old posts and you will see you are just mirroring history. Not only through these fourms, but through the centuries.

 

My philosophy is live and let live. Life is so much more enjoyable that way. Don't you think?

 

El Diablo

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spektrum2

+spektrum2

Posted
Posted

You can't control the behavior of others. You can only control your own behavior and the way that you REACT to others and - most importantly - lead by example.

 

Yes!!! A great truth you have put forth here.In the truest and highest sense no one can offend you unless

you take ownership of it.Each and and everyone of us has the freewill to choose how we react to anything

we experience in life.Our reactions are a great gift,a wonderful chance to look within and search using a

tool called self honesty.As for trying to protect others....that journey is not ours to take.The bumps in my

life are just as important as the easy times.Is joy diminised by saddness or does it become more precious.

The sensation of hot is meaningless if one has never experienced cold.The gift of experiences is the

opportunity to ask who "I Am" in relationship to that.

 

As for on topic....after 8 pages...I'm as close as anybody hehe :rolleyes:

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TheAlabamaRambler

+TheAlabamaRambler

Posted
Posted (edited)

... Don't all religions have basically the same beliefs. I have heard this quote before or something similar "I have no problems with Jesus, it's his followers I can't stand."

Exactly!

 

There was a now-archived cache here in Alabama that pointed this dichotomy out.

 

It was in a little rural town, population maybe 5,000. You came to a T intersection and across the T was a big billboard with arrows pointing left or right... for the SEVENTEEN different churches in this town!

 

A town of 5k people who all believe essentially the same thing... let's face it, their's not a whole lot of belief differences between the Methodists and Baptists (there is a higher power, obey the 10 Commandments, leave the Earth better than you found it, etc), had so divided themselves by dogmatic 'my church is right on this inconsequential detail and yours is wrong, so you are a sinner'' that they needed 17 buildings, 17 staffs, 17 congregations all shaking their fingers at each other. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

 

Can you imagine how powerful it would be if all of these folks who believe the same basic things put aside the details and worked together to accomplish what every one of them say they want to accomplish but can't accomplish by themselves?

 

Oh by the way... there is such an organization where men and women of every different belief work together to accomplish great things (like the worldwide network of free Eye Foundation and Shriners Hospitals for burn and orthopedic patients). They manage all-inclusiveness by banning religious and political dogma in order to unite and collaborate... the Freemasons. 2B1ASK1

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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Okiebryan

+Okiebryan

Posted
Posted

this is not about believing or not believing.

 

This is about not wanting this stuff in caches.

 

Believing or not believing is totally off topic, and not the subject here. Many believers here agree that geocaching should be neutral grounds. in other words, everyone is welcome and shouldn't have to deal with this advertising in the caches.

 

If we start seeing all religions wanting equal advertising in caches we're going to have a really big problem on our hands.

 

As someone said eariler, and it bears repeating,

Christians may have a need to do this, but we have needs for many things.

One of which is to relieve ourselves.

Relieving ourselves in caches is an inappropriate place to take care of this need.

 

Putting advertising (including advertising Christen living) is not appropriate in caches.

 

This is probably the best summary of this thread's issues so far. Well done.

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mrbort

+mrbort

Posted
Posted (edited)
"Those that refuse to believe in God don't have a problem with belief, rather it is their lack of willingness to accept information that challenges long-held positions"

 

Huh?

 

This is 100% my reaction to this.

 

To add: If I find a religious tract in a cache I'll leave it unless I find it hateful (and that is completely up to me). I'll trade cleanliness and probably a little magnet for it knowing that the person who left it didn't "T: Hotwheels, L: Religious pamphlet." To me I'm enriching the cache by removing it and even further by adding the lil swag. If it's not hateful, I don't care... If it's a compassionate, loving statement by any faith or position, I'll probably think "hey this isn't for me but maybe it is for someone."

 

Going back to the quoted section: I would have to say, with regard to the quote by Kit Fox, that as others have said, quoting something does not make it true... ever.... it's just a quote; it's asserting the truth that it was said. Also, the overwhelming majority of agnostics and atheists I know have a problem with faith because it's a difficult proposition rather than difficult change in belief system. It's extremely difficult to believe in something without any a priori, provable knowledge... Their philosophy comes not because it's self-obvious and their carefully constructed worldview of disbelief or suspension of belief would be shattered by this overwhelming truth but because faith isn't an easy logical proposition. Faith is believing in the unprovable... that's not easy, nor should it be.

 

Whatever the faith of individuals, I respect it and hope that they lead lives positively impacting their fellow humans. We're never sure what the best way is and perhaps to some leaving tracts is what seems to be the right way... Like any other thing in which humans participate, most people intend to do right most of the time. Hopefully communication and dialogue, like others have said, will help illuminate the consequences of actions.

 

edit: clarity

Edited by mrbort
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kraushad

+kraushad

Posted
Posted

 

The alternative being hunger? Right... Tell you what. Have two groups, everything exactly the same, one group preaching God's love, and the other just serving food. See which one has the bigger crowd.

 

yep. people on the receiving end consider it to be "paying the bill". they recognize it as strings attached, which it is.

 

the better example would be to just serve the food without requiring people to sit through the advertising.

 

to give without expecting preaches a good deal more effectively.

 

We don't preach the whole time, contrary to what everyone assumes. It is a simple, "thanks for coming, and, God and his people love you."

 

And.... The first time you see someone who is down, broke, and/or alone at the "end of their rope" make an emotional turn around because they realize that at least God and the witnessing Christian loves them, perhaps even requesting that you pray with them, you will never feel that witnessing is bad again. Many times at public service events/concerts the people ASK for it before you ever get a chance to offer.

 

I don't agree with everything that ANY religion does or believes, but don't confuse a "religion" with a personal relationship with God. The two are very different. It is illogical to dismiss the truth of a God simply because His followers make mistakes. It would be like saying that Tiger Woods isn't a good golfer because someone that he gave golf lessons to never broke 100.

 

I agree that some religious people can be the biggest turnoffs when it comes to going to church, and that tracts in a cache could bother some people. Normally we only get touchy about things we care about, so if a tract bothers you, I would argue that you are not confident in your own religious position. I prefer Coke, but I am not offended by someone who drinks a Pepsi in front of me... I am heterosexual, but I have close friends who are fraternity brothers from college and fellow musicians who are gay and don't offend me one bit. I don't judge, God does. I love as best I can as commanded by the word of God I believe in.

 

There are many pushy Christians who think that they have to beat you over the head with religion.... I am not like that. Chances are if you met me, the only idea you might get would be from the kindness I showed you. (at least I hope so).

 

I also don't consider it tolerance or respectful of others to treat someone else religious material with irreverence. The toilet paper talk is only disrespectful and speaks of intentional intolerance and hypocrisy in points regarding acceptance. I suspect it is posted primarily to be inflammatory and really has no credibility.

 

I don't leave tracts anywhere... never have. I wouldn't leave them in a cache. I often throw them out when they are left on my vehicle or mailbox, sometimes after a curious glance, sometimes not. But, they certainly wouldn't be something I would take the time to get offended by. People are too thin-skinned in the world... everybody is so ready to be offended....

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Chrysalides

+Chrysalides

Posted
Posted (edited)
"Those that refuse to believe in God don't have a problem with belief, rather it is their lack of willingness to accept information that challenges long-held positions"

 

Huh?

 

This is 100% my reaction to this.

Translation : if you don't believe in God, you're dumb and inflexible. But phrased in such a way as to avoid being accused of name calling.

 

Or, as ThePetersTrio put it...

THEY know the TRUTH about (insert deity here) and everyone else is (insert derrogatory remark/assumed shortcoming here)

 

Just want to add that if you want to leave little magnets or even leaflets that say "God loves you" I don't see a problem with that (except how well the leaflet will survive before turning to mush still applies).

Edited by Chrysalides
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TrailGators

+TrailGators

Posted
Posted
Oh by the way... there is such an organization where men and women of every different belief work together to accomplish great things (like the worldwide network of free Eye Foundation and Shriners Hospitals for burn and orthopedic patients). They manage all-inclusiveness by banning religious and political dogma in order to unite and collaborate... the Freemasons. 2B1ASK1

 

Just finished reading Dan Brown's interesting new book about them. :rolleyes:
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TrailGators

+TrailGators

Posted
Posted
The first time you see someone who is down, broke, and/or alone at the "end of their rope" make an emotional turn around because they realize that at least God and the witnessing Christian loves them, perhaps even requesting that you pray with them, you will never feel that witnessing is bad again. Many times at public service events/concerts the people ASK for it before you ever get a chance to offer.

 

I don't agree with everything that ANY religion does or believes, but don't confuse a "religion" with a personal relationship with God. The two are very different. It is illogical to dismiss the truth of a God simply because His followers make mistakes. It would be like saying that Tiger Woods isn't a good golfer because someone that he gave golf lessons to never broke 100.

 

I agree that some religious people can be the biggest turnoffs when it comes to going to church, and that tracts in a cache could bother some people. Normally we only get touchy about things we care about, so if a tract bothers you, I would argue that you are not confident in your own religious position. I prefer Coke, but I am not offended by someone who drinks a Pepsi in front of me... I am heterosexual, but I have close friends who are fraternity brothers from college and fellow musicians who are gay and don't offend me one bit. I don't judge, God does. I love as best I can as commanded by the word of God I believe in.

 

There are many pushy Christians who think that they have to beat you over the head with religion.... I am not like that. Chances are if you met me, the only idea you might get would be from the kindness I showed you. (at least I hope so).

 

I also don't consider it tolerance or respectful of others to treat someone else religious material with irreverence. The toilet paper talk is only disrespectful and speaks of intentional intolerance and hypocrisy in points regarding acceptance. I suspect it is posted primarily to be inflammatory and really has no credibility.

 

I don't leave tracts anywhere... never have. I wouldn't leave them in a cache. I often throw them out when they are left on my vehicle or mailbox, sometimes after a curious glance, sometimes not. But, they certainly wouldn't be something I would take the time to get offended by. People are too thin-skinned in the world... everybody is so ready to be offended....

Nice post!
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bittsen

+bittsen

Posted
Posted

And here I thought this was a thread about whether or not religious tracts belonged in geocaches.

 

How come some people are too ignorant to see the topic of the thread and, instead, have to take it to an argument for, or against, various religions?

 

(P.S. The word "ignorant", as used is in no way meant as an insult.)

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flask

+flask

Posted
Posted

 

It was in a little rural town, population maybe 5,000. You came to a T intersection and across the T was a big billboard with arrows pointing left or right... for the SEVENTEEN different churches in this town!

 

 

i was in a town not too long ago that had seventeen MENNONITE churches.

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jeepdelfuego

+jeepdelfuego

Posted
Posted

I am deeply sad at much of this discourse. If you don't like it - leave it alone. There is no need to tear down the message or any messenger. No matter your personal feelings on the message.

 

I agree 100%. Leave it alone! I have seen a bunch of stuff in geocaches I don't like, or agree with. But, I don't get my panties in a bunch. I just log my find and move ON!

 

I am sure that the religious tract that you came upon didn't hurt you physically. Emotionally, it is a different matter for you, but that had nothing to do with the religious tract.

 

Your life would be much happier if you could just take geocaching less seriously. IT'S A GAME! Did you know that the smiley's that you accumulate every month depict a happy face? Be like a smiley and put a smile on your face, and think happy thoughts.

 

-Jeep Del Fuego

 

:rolleyes:

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TheAlabamaRambler

+TheAlabamaRambler

Posted
Posted

 

It was in a little rural town, population maybe 5,000. You came to a T intersection and across the T was a big billboard with arrows pointing left or right... for the SEVENTEEN different churches in this town!

 

 

i was in a town not too long ago that had seventeen MENNONITE churches.

Exactly! Sure, some of it is geographical where having one Mennonite church couldn't well serve a large city just due to distances... but I would bet that this is really due to several minutely differentiated belief sets within the Mennonite Church. much like we have a United Baptist and a Southern Baptist and Independent Baptist and American Baptist and dozens of other flavors of the Baptist church... and not much (if any) real difference amongst them!

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Team Cotati

+Team Cotati

Posted
Posted

 

It was in a little rural town, population maybe 5,000. You came to a T intersection and across the T was a big billboard with arrows pointing left or right... for the SEVENTEEN different churches in this town!

 

 

i was in a town not too long ago that had seventeen MENNONITE churches.

 

Is that a world record?

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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted
"Those that refuse to believe in God don't have a problem with belief, rather it is their lack of willingness to accept information that challenges long-held positions"

 

Huh?

 

This is 100% my reaction to this.

 

To add: If I find a religious tract in a cache I'll leave it unless I find it hateful (and that is completely up to me). I'll trade cleanliness and probably a little magnet for it knowing that the person who left it didn't "T: Hotwheels, L: Religious pamphlet." To me I'm enriching the cache by removing it and even further by adding the lil swag. If it's not hateful, I don't care... If it's a compassionate, loving statement by any faith or position, I'll probably think "hey this isn't for me but maybe it is for someone."

 

Going back to the quoted section: I would have to say, with regard to the quote by Kit Fox, that as others have said, quoting something does not make it true... ever.... it's just a quote; it's asserting the truth that it was said. Also, the overwhelming majority of agnostics and atheists I know have a problem with faith because it's a difficult proposition rather than difficult change in belief system. It's extremely difficult to believe in something without any a priori, provable knowledge... Their philosophy comes not because it's self-obvious and their carefully constructed worldview of disbelief or suspension of belief would be shattered by this overwhelming truth but because faith isn't an easy logical proposition. Faith is believing in the unprovable... that's not easy, nor should it be.

 

Whatever the faith of individuals, I respect it and hope that they lead lives positively impacting their fellow humans. We're never sure what the best way is and perhaps to some leaving tracts is what seems to be the right way... Like any other thing in which humans participate, most people intend to do right most of the time. Hopefully communication and dialogue, like others have said, will help illuminate the consequences of actions.

 

edit: clarity

 

Have you ever tried to disprove the Torah codes in the Bible, or any of the twenty prophesies that came true (even Nostradamus was wrong more than he was ever right)? Can you disprove the factual accounts of non-believing historians who set out to destroy Christianity with physical evidence, but ended up converting to Christianity once they saw the overwhelming truth of God. Explain how the complexity of earth could have occurred by a "big bang," or the "primordial ooze" theory. How about the "missing link" to prove that man evolved from apes?

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TheAlabamaRambler

+TheAlabamaRambler

Posted
Posted

 

It was in a little rural town, population maybe 5,000. You came to a T intersection and across the T was a big billboard with arrows pointing left or right... for the SEVENTEEN different churches in this town!

 

 

i was in a town not too long ago that had seventeen MENNONITE churches.

 

Is that a world record?

Actually, based on this link, it was probably a joke.

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flask

+flask

Posted
Posted

 

It was in a little rural town, population maybe 5,000. You came to a T intersection and across the T was a big billboard with arrows pointing left or right... for the SEVENTEEN different churches in this town!

 

 

i was in a town not too long ago that had seventeen MENNONITE churches.

 

Is that a world record?

Actually, based on this link, it was probably a joke.

 

actually, it was not a joke.

 

the sunday i was there one of the topics of the sermon was the mennonite propensity for splitting off into new churches.

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Okiebryan

+Okiebryan

Posted
Posted (edited)

Have you ever tried to disprove the Torah codes in the Bible, or any of the twenty prophesies that came true (even Nostradamus was wrong more than he was ever right)? Can you disprove the factual accounts of non-believing historians who set out to destroy Christianity with physical evidence, but ended up converting to Christianity once they saw the overwhelming truth of God. Explain how the complexity of earth could have occurred by a "big bang," or the "primordial ooze" theory. How about the "missing link" to prove that man evolved from apes?

 

Have you ever tried to stay on topic? This thread is about the appropriateness of religious propaganda in caches, not about arguing whether God/Jesus/whoever is real. This is really not the place to try to defend your faith or convince anyone else.

 

This has been a pretty good discussion and I'd hat to see it locked because it took off on that tangent.

 

Besides, I have no freaking idea what you are rambling on about. :rolleyes:<_<

Edited by Okiebryan
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mrbort

+mrbort

Posted
Posted (edited)
"Those that refuse to believe in God don't have a problem with belief, rather it is their lack of willingness to accept information that challenges long-held positions"

 

Huh?

 

This is 100% my reaction to this.

 

To add: If I find a religious tract in a cache I'll leave it unless I find it hateful (and that is completely up to me). I'll trade cleanliness and probably a little magnet for it knowing that the person who left it didn't "T: Hotwheels, L: Religious pamphlet." To me I'm enriching the cache by removing it and even further by adding the lil swag. If it's not hateful, I don't care... If it's a compassionate, loving statement by any faith or position, I'll probably think "hey this isn't for me but maybe it is for someone."

 

Going back to the quoted section: I would have to say, with regard to the quote by Kit Fox, that as others have said, quoting something does not make it true... ever.... it's just a quote; it's asserting the truth that it was said. Also, the overwhelming majority of agnostics and atheists I know have a problem with faith because it's a difficult proposition rather than difficult change in belief system. It's extremely difficult to believe in something without any a priori, provable knowledge... Their philosophy comes not because it's self-obvious and their carefully constructed worldview of disbelief or suspension of belief would be shattered by this overwhelming truth but because faith isn't an easy logical proposition. Faith is believing in the unprovable... that's not easy, nor should it be.

 

Whatever the faith of individuals, I respect it and hope that they lead lives positively impacting their fellow humans. We're never sure what the best way is and perhaps to some leaving tracts is what seems to be the right way... Like any other thing in which humans participate, most people intend to do right most of the time. Hopefully communication and dialogue, like others have said, will help illuminate the consequences of actions.

 

edit: clarity

 

Have you ever tried to disprove the Torah codes in the Bible, or any of the twenty prophesies that came true (even Nostradamus was wrong more than he was ever right)? Can you disprove the factual accounts of non-believing historians who set out to destroy Christianity with physical evidence, but ended up converting to Christianity once they saw the overwhelming truth of God. Explain how the complexity of earth could have occurred by a "big bang," or the "primordial ooze" theory. How about the "missing link" to prove that man evolved from apes?

 

Your argument is specious. It's addressing disproving things rather than proving them. The logical threshold is not the same. I don't want to argue your faith with you as it's clear that you are comfortable with the logical or spiritual conclusions at which you've arrived. Further, I have no interest in discussing my personal faith with you in this topic or ever; my faith is mine... Allow me that. My post that you quoted was a generalization about atheists and agnostics I know and with whom I have had many discussions about their belief system. This isn't an attack on your faith; it never was.

 

edited to add: I will not be engaging you in further discussions about the nature of faith in this topic.

Edited by mrbort
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Cpl. Klinger

+Cpl. Klinger

Posted
Posted (edited)

Have you ever tried to disprove the Torah codes in the Bible, or any of the twenty prophesies that came true (even Nostradamus was wrong more than he was ever right)? Can you disprove the factual accounts of non-believing historians who set out to destroy Christianity with physical evidence, but ended up converting to Christianity once they saw the overwhelming truth of God. Explain how the complexity of earth could have occurred by a "big bang," or the "primordial ooze" theory. How about the "missing link" to prove that man evolved from apes?

 

Changed my mind...

 

BTW, is this thread ever going to get back on any sort of topic?

Edited by Cpl. Klinger
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Team Cotati

+Team Cotati

Posted
Posted

Have you ever tried to disprove the Torah codes in the Bible, or any of the twenty prophesies that came true (even Nostradamus was wrong more than he was ever right)? Can you disprove the factual accounts of non-believing historians who set out to destroy Christianity with physical evidence, but ended up converting to Christianity once they saw the overwhelming truth of God. Explain how the complexity of earth could have occurred by a "big bang," or the "primordial ooze" theory. How about the "missing link" to prove that man evolved from apes?

 

This is how I explain the unexplainables in science in a religious context...

 

God is God. We as humans have no means of understanding how or why he did/does/will do things. Big bang? God could have done that. Dinosaurs, probably him too. The Torah isn't really all that clear on timelines between events in the earliest part of scriptures. There is much ongoing rabinical debate on the fact that there are apparently missing years in the calendar to date. So, in essence, who knows what/why/how God really did do? I'll just ponder on it till I die and find our then, I guess.

 

BTW, is this thread ever going to get back on any sort of topic?

 

Did God also tell the fundamentalists that those dinosaurs went extinct as recently as 10,000 years ago?

Did God do that?

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Cpl. Klinger

+Cpl. Klinger

Posted
Posted

You know, I think that this thread has really gone off the rails, into the weeds, and has no hopes of ever returning to the course which it was designed to take. And I had to be stupid enough to contribute something which helped it along the way. Live and learn I guess.

 

What does it take to get a moderator to lock this train wreck once and for all?

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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted
Besides, I have no freaking idea what you are rambling on about

http://www.torahcodes.net/new/pages/top.html

http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophecy-...liability-bible

The Case for Christ by a former athiest

 

 

Your argument is specious. It's addressing disproving things rather than proving them. The logical threshold is not the same. I don't want to argue your faith with you as it's clear that you are comfortable with the logical or spiritual conclusions at which you've arrived. Further, I have no interest in discussing my personal faith with you in this topic or ever; my faith is mine... Allow me that. My post that you quoted was a generalization about atheists and agnostics I know and with whom I have had many discussions about their belief system. This isn't an attack on your faith; it never was.

 

edited to add: I will not be engaging you in further discussions about the nature of faith in this topic.

 

Translation, I refuse to debate this, so i'll resort to calling your argument an adjective instead. :rolleyes:

 

Back on topic, religous tracts don't bother me in caches.

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mrbort

+mrbort

Posted
Posted
Besides, I have no freaking idea what you are rambling on about

http://www.torahcodes.net/new/pages/top.html

http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophecy-...liability-bible

The Case for Christ by a former athiest

 

 

Your argument is specious. It's addressing disproving things rather than proving them. The logical threshold is not the same. I don't want to argue your faith with you as it's clear that you are comfortable with the logical or spiritual conclusions at which you've arrived. Further, I have no interest in discussing my personal faith with you in this topic or ever; my faith is mine... Allow me that. My post that you quoted was a generalization about atheists and agnostics I know and with whom I have had many discussions about their belief system. This isn't an attack on your faith; it never was.

 

edited to add: I will not be engaging you in further discussions about the nature of faith in this topic.

 

Translation, I refuse to debate this, so i'll resort to calling your argument an adjective instead. :rolleyes:

 

Back on topic, religous tracts don't bother me in caches.

 

Yes, I refuse to debate this. Please strike my comments about your arguments being adjectival from the record. I want no more part of this.

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Cpl. Klinger

+Cpl. Klinger

Posted
Posted

So, one last time, to sum this up in what could have taken less than 8 pages to do so....

 

-Some people think that tracts are fine to leave in caches

-Some people don't

-In general, the guidelines prohibit leaving anything that promotes an agenda in a cache, but leaves the enforcement of such guideline up to the CO and/or finder

 

Therefore,

 

-Finders can CITO the tracts

-Finders can trade for them

-Finders can leave them

-CO's can do all of the above as well

 

However,

 

-Posting a thread about this issues will degenerate over time into 8 pages of religious banter, personal attacks, and yam hate speech :rolleyes:

-The OP will not respond past the first page, and is probably fleeing the state after seeing the storm he created

-And in the end, we have gone no where, and accomplished nothing

 

I say it's time to stick a fork in this one. It's done.

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flask

+flask

Posted
Posted

You know, I think that this thread has really gone off the rails, into the weeds, and has no hopes of ever returning to the course which it was designed to take. And I had to be stupid enough to contribute something which helped it along the way. Live and learn I guess.

 

What does it take to get a moderator to lock this train wreck once and for all?

 

 

oh, you linear thinkers...

 

 

 

you 'd be better off reading matthew.

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Okiebryan

+Okiebryan

Posted
Posted

Religious tracts do not belong in geocaches.

 

Didn't we cover this all the way back on page 1?

 

Yes, but Team Cotati took the exact opposite stand up until page 8. Whooda thunk it?

 

I agree that the thread had derailed into an argument about proving or disproving the unprovable. I still think that tracts do not belong in caches.

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Clan Riffster

Clan Riffster

Posted
Posted

I was finding caches for four years before I found Jesus...

 

That must have been a very large cache.

 

I'm more interested in what they traded for Jesus?!!! :rolleyes:

Took Deity, left Mctoy? <_<

(Am I going to Hell for that?) :lol:

 

No problems with name calling, nobody told anyone they were going to hell, great job everyone!

And only one Godwin's Law invocation! :huh:

 

Irrefutable proof that there is a God, and she has a sense of humor!

Fixed it for ya, Ed! :D

 

Back on topic, religous tracts don't bother me in caches.

Thanx for steering us back on topic. :P

I too choose not to be offended by scraps of paper.

Link to comment
Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted

So, one last time, to sum this up in what could have taken less than 8 pages to do so....

 

-Some people think that tracts are fine to leave in caches

-Some people don't

-In general, the guidelines prohibit leaving anything that promotes an agenda in a cache, but leaves the enforcement of such guideline up to the CO and/or finder

 

Therefore,

 

-Finders can CITO the tracts

-Finders can trade for them

-Finders can leave them

-CO's can do all of the above as well

 

However,

 

-Posting a thread about this issues will degenerate over time into 8 pages of religious banter, personal attacks, and yam hate speech :rolleyes:

-The OP will not respond past the first page, and is probably fleeing the state after seeing the storm he created

-And in the end, we have gone no where, and accomplished nothing

 

I say it's time to stick a fork in this one. It's done.

The last debate on this topic went 16 pages. Religious material in caches

 

What's with the religious stuff?

 

Religious literature

 

Caches Stuffed With Religious Propaganda...

 

Christian Literature In Geocaches

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Cpl. Klinger

+Cpl. Klinger

Posted
Posted

So, one last time, to sum this up in what could have taken less than 8 pages to do so....

 

-Some people think that tracts are fine to leave in caches

-Some people don't

-In general, the guidelines prohibit leaving anything that promotes an agenda in a cache, but leaves the enforcement of such guideline up to the CO and/or finder

 

Therefore,

 

-Finders can CITO the tracts

-Finders can trade for them

-Finders can leave them

-CO's can do all of the above as well

 

However,

 

-Posting a thread about this issues will degenerate over time into 8 pages of religious banter, personal attacks, and yam hate speech :rolleyes:

-The OP will not respond past the first page, and is probably fleeing the state after seeing the storm he created

-And in the end, we have gone no where, and accomplished nothing

 

I say it's time to stick a fork in this one. It's done.

The last debate on this topic went 16 pages. Religious material in caches

 

What's with the religious stuff?

 

Religious literature

 

Caches Stuffed With Religious Propaganda...

 

Christian Literature In Geocaches

 

Oh good heavens, I think I'll just go to bed now. If this is still going when I get up... Well, I don't know what I will do.

Link to comment
Okiebryan

+Okiebryan

Posted
Posted

I'd like to pose a question to those who have so vigorously defended the practice of spamming caches with bible tracts. I hope you will respond.

 

Would it be ok with you if someone put tracts in all the caches in your area? Tracts that say that all infidel Christians are wrong and that Allah is the one true route to salvation? How about if they show photos of infidel Christians being put to death and made to suffer in the afterlife? How about if they said that the children of infidels would be better off dead than to live on believing a lie?

 

Would you be ok with those tracts? Would you leave them in the cache?

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