Caches on military bases.

[+JohnE5]

Why can there be caches placed on bases in Iraq but not in the US?

 

When I first tried to place one in a publicly accessible area on land that belongs to the base. No guard posts to pass through and anyone can come and go as they please, it was turned down.

 

I was floored. I had just come back from Iraq and found one ON BASE. Several guard posts and ID checks required to get close to it.

 

Don't even bother posting links or copy pasting the GC guidelines! There ARE caches on military bases just not in the US. If anything, caching would be more dangerous in Iraq than CONUS.

 

Some one please explain this double standard!

[+Minimike2]

The Homeland Defense pogues don't want sneaky characters near/on military bases, hiding in the bushes?

 

In Iraq, it is easy to see sneaky character - they wear dresses.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Maybe you should look at it as a kind gesture from Geocaching to our servicemen/women overseas? We don't want you guys resorting to hiding caches in Iraq where people might get killed looking for them. Note: There are also eight caches at Guantanamo Bay.

[Keystone]

Maybe you should look at it as a kind gesture from Geocaching to our servicemen/women overseas?

Exactly. Would you rather that we archive all the listings on the overseas bases, in order to be consistent?

 

Please note, placements on the overseas bases require permission from the base commander. Have you tried that domestically?

[+AirborneSurveyor]

If you are in Iraq or Afghanistan, odds are you are affiliated with the military i.e. in the military or a contractor working for the military and have the proper ID to gain access to get on and have a reason for being on the camps, FOB’s, COP’s etc. But Joe civilian back in the U.S. does not have a valid reason to be wondering around a military installation and may wonder into an area that is off limits that someone affiliated with the military would know better by the very nature of being in the military or a contractor for the military. Case in point the thread; “Most Interesting Road Sign While Geocachig” A cacher posing with a Danger Unexploded Ordinance sign. You and I both know that sign is not a joke, as do most people, but some people just don’t understand the gravity of the situation they have placed themselves in because they have never been in or worked for the military. When I was an O/C at JRTC twice I caught civilians fishing in the maneuver box. I would stop and let them know that a rotation was going on and the unit that was training might think that they are roll players and detain them as part of the exercise. I think GC.com is giving us deployed military a little slack on the rules as there has not been any problems with caches placed over here as long as the local commander allows Geocaching. Now if you were to get written permission from the Garrison commander and involve the MWR you might be able to get your cache approved.

[Mr.Yuck]

Why can there be caches placed on bases in Iraq but not in the US?

 

When I first tried to place one in a publicly accessible area on land that belongs to the base. No guard posts to pass through and anyone can come and go as they please, it was turned down.

 

I was floored. I had just come back from Iraq and found one ON BASE. Several guard posts and ID checks required to get close to it.

 

Don't even bother posting links or copy pasting the GC guidelines! There ARE caches on military bases just not in the US. If anything, caching would be more dangerous in Iraq than CONUS.

 

Some one please explain this double standard!

 

OK, no links as requested. But I definitely have found a since archived CCCooperAgency Virtual on Carlisle Army Barracks. I also remember some newbie cacher posted he was going to Ft. Sill Oklahoma, and I found about 5 caches on post while surfing the area for him.

 

I believe the "rule" is they are OK, providing they are in the populated and accessable to the general public portions of the post. For example almost every major U.S. military post has a museum. EDIT: And of course explicit permission, as everyone else seems to be saying.

Edited October 31, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+wimseyguy]

As the kind man in the white lab coat has already posted-permission is the key issue in this situation. There are several caches placed in an area of Fort Bragg near Texas and Smith Lakes that has been reopened to the general public for recreational use. I know the cachers who have placed them worked with the base management to get permission for those caches, and there was even an event in that area this year that was open to all.

 

So instead of just ranting away, why not engage your friendly local reviewer in some polite discussion? Then find out from the base management if there are any areas that you can get permission to place caches in that won't require civilians to pass checkpoints nor wander onto restricted lands.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Also, I would recommend that you be sure that you have read and REALLY understand the Caching Listing Requirements / Guidelines.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#offlimit

 

Here's a part you may have missed.

Off-Limit (Physical) Caches

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

 

* Caches on land managed by an agency that prohibits geocaches, such as the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges).

* Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

* Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a hiding place, a clue or a logging method.

* Caches placed in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites or cemeteries).

* Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In the United States we generally use a distance of 150 ft (46 m) but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.

* Caches near or on military installations.

* Caches near, on or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These may include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports.

 

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer. If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache.

[Clan Riffster]

So instead of just ranting away, why not engage your friendly local reviewer in some polite discussion?

Because ranting and raving about a slighted sense of entitlement is ever so much easier?

 

Back on topic: Get written permission from the Base Commander & try again.

[Mr.Yuck]

As the kind man in the white lab coat has already posted-permission is the key issue in this situation. There are several caches placed in an area of Fort Bragg near Texas and Smith Lakes that has been reopened to the general public for recreational use. I know the cachers who have placed them worked with the base management to get permission for those caches, and there was even an event in that area this year that was open to all.

 

So instead of just ranting away, why not engage your friendly local reviewer in some polite discussion? Then find out from the base management if there are any areas that you can get permission to place caches in that won't require civilians to pass checkpoints nor wander onto restricted lands.

 

Ft. Bragg moved to Texas? I didn't get that memo.

 

This sounds super easy! Everyone knows who the post commander is of any post. And if you don't, he probably has his name in lights at the main gate. One person with the ultimate authority to give permission. Compare this to the multi-layered bureaucracy you'd endure trying to place a cache in the average State Park system, for example.

[+KoosKoos]

As the kind man in the white lab coat has already posted-permission is the key issue in this situation. There are several caches placed in an area of Fort Bragg near Texas and Smith Lakes that has been reopened to the general public for recreational use. I know the cachers who have placed them worked with the base management to get permission for those caches, and there was even an event in that area this year that was open to all.

 

So instead of just ranting away, why not engage your friendly local reviewer in some polite discussion? Then find out from the base management if there are any areas that you can get permission to place caches in that won't require civilians to pass checkpoints nor wander onto restricted lands.

 

Ft. Bragg moved to Texas? I didn't get that memo.

 

 

He said "near" Texas. We're a huge state, but I'm not sure I'd say Ft. Bragg is all that close to us....guess it depends on your scale of measurement though.

[+SgtSue]

As the kind man in the white lab coat has already posted-permission is the key issue in this situation. There are several caches placed in an area of Fort Bragg near Texas and Smith Lakes that has been reopened to the general public for recreational use. I know the cachers who have placed them worked with the base management to get permission for those caches, and there was even an event in that area this year that was open to all.

 

So instead of just ranting away, why not engage your friendly local reviewer in some polite discussion? Then find out from the base management if there are any areas that you can get permission to place caches in that won't require civilians to pass checkpoints nor wander onto restricted lands.

 

Ft. Bragg moved to Texas? I didn't get that memo.

 

 

He said "near" Texas. We're a huge state, but I'm not sure I'd say Ft. Bragg is all that close to us....guess it depends on your scale of measurement though.

 

Note the pluralization of the word lake - Texas Lake and Smith Lake are both on Fort Bragg, NC.

[+NnJRadabaugh]

Take it from someone in the military who is also a OIF vet, It's alot easier to get on a military base on the US, all u need really is a valid ID and a logical explanation to get in. So if you put a geocache on a military base, all the sudden you have alot more people visiting that base who dont really have anything military related to be doing there, so its kinda a national security thing, and to be honest, if i saw someone snooping around a lampost with some little container by the local PC, I may be inclined to question them.

 

Now in iraq, its not so easy to get on the base. So my guess is the caches over there probly were placed there by military cachers and there the only ones who can get to them. and i doubt they actually got aproval to put them there. Deployments are long and some people can only go so long without geocaching.

[Mr.Yuck]

As the kind man in the white lab coat has already posted-permission is the key issue in this situation. There are several caches placed in an area of Fort Bragg near Texas and Smith Lakes that has been reopened to the general public for recreational use. I know the cachers who have placed them worked with the base management to get permission for those caches, and there was even an event in that area this year that was open to all.

 

So instead of just ranting away, why not engage your friendly local reviewer in some polite discussion? Then find out from the base management if there are any areas that you can get permission to place caches in that won't require civilians to pass checkpoints nor wander onto restricted lands.

 

Ft. Bragg moved to Texas? I didn't get that memo.

 

 

said "near" Texas. We're a huge state, but I'm not sure I'd say Ft. Bragg is all that close to us....guess it depends on your scale of measurement though.

 

Note the pluralization of the word lake - Texas Lake and Smith Lake are both on Fort Bragg, NC.

 

Oh, just messing around. I figured it out (and did before I even posted). Especially since the guy who posted the comment is from N.C. Carry on, as they say.

[+wimseyguy]

No, I'm not from Cary, NC; I'm from Raleigh.

 

Oh you said Carry;never mind.

Edited November 1, 2009 by wimseyguy

[+AirborneSurveyor]

Take it from someone in the military who is also a OIF vet, It's alot easier to get on a military base on the US, all u need really is a valid ID and a logical explanation to get in. So if you put a geocache on a military base, all the sudden you have alot more people visiting that base who dont really have anything military related to be doing there, so its kinda a national security thing, and to be honest, if i saw someone snooping around a lampost with some little container by the local PC, I may be inclined to question them.

 

Now in iraq, its not so easy to get on the base. So my guess is the caches over there probly were placed there by military cachers and there the only ones who can get to them. and i doubt they actually got aproval to put them there. Deployments are long and some people can only go so long without geocaching.

 

You could not be more wrong, and access to the person that is the decision maker if you can place a cache is a lot easier wile deployed. For one of the caches I placed I did not know the “FOB Commander” so I just sat down with him while he was eating lunch and explained the Five W's and he agreed on the spot. The other one I knew the FOB Mayor, he already knew ahead of time that I was planning on placing a cache as I have talked to him about Geocaching before. I told him where it was going to be and showed him the container. He just looked at me like I was nuts and said knock your self out. I was unable to convert him to the caching world.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

Really? You get back and have downtime and you want to stay on base to geocache? I mean, really?

I'd be like "F- this! I have X hours until I need to report back and only need X-Y hours of sleep. Time to hit the road for Y hours of caching!"

 

In Iraq, it is easy to see sneaky character - they wear dresses.

 

A lot of the local nationals wear 1970s-era tight disco pants and man-blouses.

 

And as for planting my geocache over here: everyone in my chain of command knew I wanted to place one and saw the ammo can I painted to bring with me. They knew it was just a matter of time before I found a good hiding spot and started asking if I could hide my can. Just a few more months before I replace the can with a bison tube and send the can back home to be used in the states.

Edited November 1, 2009 by bramasoleiowa

[+Wadcutter]

Quite a few military installations in the states have caches located on base. They're located in areas where public access is permitted such as museums or historical sites.

Do a search of these installations which have caches on base. No doubt there are others. Showing your reviewer there are caches are on military installations might help you get your cache approved:

Ft Benning, GA

Pensacola NAS, FL

Lackland AFB, TX

Ft Sam Houston, TX

Ellsworth AFB, SD

Ft Riley, KS

Ft Knox, KY

Ft Huachuca, AZ

Wright Patterson AFB, OH

Eglin AFB, FL

Offutt AFB, NE

McConnell AFB, KS

Kirtland AFB, NM

 

Good luck!

[+briansnat]

Maybe you should look at it as a kind gesture from Geocaching to our servicemen/women overseas?

 

I think this is it. The caches on bases overseas are usually placed by military personnel for military personnel.

I doubt the average Iraqi could buy a GPS, show up at the gate and say he's there to find the geocache. So they are allowed even though they don't conform to the guideline that says a cache should be available to all.

[+Team Cotati]

Take it from someone in the military who is also a OIF vet, It's alot easier to get on a military base on the US, all u need really is a valid ID and a logical explanation to get in. So if you put a geocache on a military base, all the sudden you have alot more people visiting that base who dont really have anything military related to be doing there, so its kinda a national security thing, and to be honest, if i saw someone snooping around a lampost with some little container by the local PC, I may be inclined to question them.

 

Now in iraq, its not so easy to get on the base. So my guess is the caches over there probly were placed there by military cachers and there the only ones who can get to them. and i doubt they actually got aproval to put them there. Deployments are long and some people can only go so long without geocaching.

 

I do not know which military bases to which you refer. I can for certain tell you that such access is not SOP. I live very near Travis AFB. You will not legally enter that base on a valid non-military ID and some creative story line.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

I think the poster that said "valid ID" meant a valid DoD ID. Civilian DoD employees carry a CAC (Common Access Card) that will allow access to a military base (with a valid reason for being there). But a "driver's license" isn't sufficient.

 

You can add "March Air Reserve Base" to your list of bases that allow caches - in the museum area.

[+Team Cotati]

I think the poster that said "valid ID" meant a valid DoD ID. Civilian DoD employees carry a CAC (Common Access Card) that will allow access to a military base (with a valid reason for being there). But a "driver's license" isn't sufficient.

 

You can add "March Air Reserve Base" to your list of bases that allow caches - in the museum area.

 

Well then that is what the poster ought to have said.

 

I fully stand by my original posting.

 

I would ask how it is that the gate guard makes the determination wrt what it is that constitutes "valid reason" and who it is that provides that valid reason and when.

[+Wadcutter]

I think the poster that said "valid ID" meant a valid DoD ID. Civilian DoD employees carry a CAC (Common Access Card) that will allow access to a military base (with a valid reason for being there). But a "driver's license" isn't sufficient.

 

You can add "March Air Reserve Base" to your list of bases that allow caches - in the museum area.

 

Well then that is what the poster ought to have said.

 

I fully stand by my original posting.

 

I would ask how it is that the gate guard makes the determination wrt what it is that constitutes "valid reason" and who it is that provides that valid reason and when.

The OP did write this "When I first tried to place one in a publicly accessible area on land that belongs to the base. No guard posts to pass through and anyone can come and go as they please, it was turned down. "

[Motorcycle_Mama]

The Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines read this way.

 

Off-Limits Caches

* Caches near or on military installations.

[+Jeep_Dog]

Why can there be caches placed on bases in Iraq but not in the US?

 

When I first tried to place one in a publicly accessible area on land that belongs to the base. No guard posts to pass through and anyone can come and go as they please, it was turned down.

 

I was floored. I had just come back from Iraq and found one ON BASE. Several guard posts and ID checks required to get close to it.

 

Don't even bother posting links or copy pasting the GC guidelines! There ARE caches on military bases just not in the US. If anything, caching would be more dangerous in Iraq than CONUS.

 

Some one please explain this double standard!

 

Dude, you would have to bring that up, here of all places? Please, if you get all the Iraq caches archived before I go back for my fourth tour here in a couple of months.....

 

Just smile and wave, smile and wave. And... say "thanks" for the caches and small diversions we get for 12-15 month tours over there, thank you.....

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

...

Showing your reviewer there are caches are on military installations might help you get your cache approved:

...

Actually that will most likely get you a note that prior listings do not set precedent.

 

Permission from the commanding officer with contact info will almost always work, however.

[+Jeep_Dog]

Now in iraq, its not so easy to get on the base. So my guess is the caches over there probly were placed there by military cachers and there the only ones who can get to them. and i doubt they actually got aproval to put them there. Deployments are long and some people can only go so long without geocaching.

 

Every one of my Iraq caches has camp mayor or base commander approval. Moreover, I've gone through the effort to contact the new set each time there's a RIP/TOA. For those that did not get permission, as they became available I ensured these caches were added to the list. The permission process is quite easy, especially if you get the MWR folks to support/endorse it as a sanctioned MWR activity.

 

So, your thoughts are quite generalized and probably incorrect - I just didn't want this kind of incorrect thinking causing a mass archival of caches over there.

[majormajor42]

MWR certainly seems like the way to go. I'm not in the service anymore but I think I would feel a little weird going way up the chain to the base commander for permission. MWR might do the leg work for me if they can be sold on the idea. I remember them being very kind and helpful to me when I was doing things, such as renting a boat.

[+Wadcutter]

...

Showing your reviewer there are caches are on military installations might help you get your cache approved:

...

Actually that will most likely get you a note that prior listings do not set precedent.

 

Permission from the commanding officer with contact info will almost always work, however.

Well no kidding.

I gave them as examples of bases which he could use to convince not only the reviewer but also anyone on base who might drag their feet. It's not likely just anyone on any military installation is just going to waltz into the base commander's office and ask permission to place a cache.

They are also examples to show there are caches on military installations in the US and not the blanket statement "caches are not allowed on military bases."

 

MWR certainly seems like the way to go. I'm not in the service anymore but I think I would feel a little weird going way up the chain to the base commander for permission. MWR might do the leg work for me if they can be sold on the idea. I remember them being very kind and helpful to me when I was doing things, such as renting a boat.

Yup, I agree. MWR would be the right approach to take. Getting to the chief of the MWR is going to be a whole lot easier and accomplish more than trying to run the idea to the base commander.

Might think the base commander has a whole lot more on his plate than a tupperware container full of McToys.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Wadcutter

[+sbell111]

... Might think the base commander has a whole lot more on his plate than a tupperware container full of McToys.

The same could be said of all of us and every single person that permission has ever been received from.

[+Wadcutter]

... Might think the base commander has a whole lot more on his plate than a tupperware container full of McToys.

The same could be said of all of us and every single person that permission has ever been received from.

BWHAHAHAHA!!! Are you for real? Is that the best retort you can think of?

Hardly the same thing. If you think so then you have no idea about the military. In case you missed the news there are a couple of wars going on in 2 different countries. There's hardly a military installation in the US that hasn't lost personnel in those wars. Every installation has people either currently deployed, returning, or getting ready to deploy. And you post some lame comment equating a base commander is as busy as "all of us and every single person"? Time for you to get a dose of reality.

A 1, 2, or 3 star general has people who handle such things. The base commander will be involved in a lot more important things than a tupperware container hidden next to the museum. If E-5 John (the OP) tried waltzing into the BC's office to make an appointment re placing a cache then good old E-5 John would most likely find himself doing something more productive for the military to spend his extra time, not to mention a quick 1-sided conversation from his platoon leader. E-5s don't get make E-5 or stay E-5 very long by hanging out in the BC office.

As previously posted there will be an MWR chief who would be more appropriate.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Wadcutter

[+Jeep_Dog]

BWHAHAHAHA!!! Are you for real? Is that the best retort you can think of?

Hardly the same thing. If you think so then you have no idea about the military. In case you missed the news there are a couple of wars going on in 2 different countries.... And you post some lame comment equating a base commander is as busy as "all of us and every single person"? Time for you to get a dose of reality.

 

Hey, brother - I've watched sbell since I've been around the forums for 5 years (and you have done the same even longer), and I doubt he meant an in-your-face "I don't respect what you or your kind does" ; he probably understands full well that life in the military is often quite different than the rest of society.

 

I think his point was that permission can be difficult for many other cache placement requests for much the same reasons as described in this forum. However, regardless of the circumstances, the onus is on the cache owner to obtain appropriate permission.

 

As you and many of us have suggested, the easiest way for this would be through MWR as an ombudsman for the geocaching activity. Unfortunately, with the guidelines as they are, and seems to me that it would almost require a national MWR HQ embracing of the activity to contact GC lackeys to get the guidelines modified. Not likely this will happen any time soon.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Jeep_Dog

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

The biggest issue with caches on bases in Iraq is with the draw-down creating massive changes on some of these bases.

Some posts have shut down, others are being shut down, some are being transfered to the Iraqis.

 

I'm watching info on certain areas so I can update the CO when the base is no longer part of US forces.

[+JohnE5]

MWR certainly seems like the way to go. I'm not in the service anymore but I think I would feel a little weird going way up the chain to the base commander for permission. MWR might do the leg work for me if they can be sold on the idea. I remember them being very kind and helpful to me when I was doing things, such as renting a boat.

I have contacted the base MWR Liberty Program Manager and she already knew about geocaching and has done it herself.

 

We talked about making it a rec program and she has already started brainstorming a 6 month worldwide competition for the units on base.

 

Each unit has their geocachers sign up and in six months the command with the mosts finds wins a prize.

 

And I have searched most of the bases in CA and found caches on US military property and contacted some of the CO about how they got permission to place on a public accessed road but on military property (like the one I wanted to place but got shot down) most have said they didn't ask for permission, they just placed it.

 

Either way my MWR rep says that she can probably get permission from the base CO since she has lunch with him every Friday. I wouldn't be surprised if he grants her the authority to give permission for all caches on base within the guidelines he sets.

[majormajor42]

The biggest issue with caches on bases in Iraq is with the draw-down creating massive changes on some of these bases.

Some posts have shut down, others are being shut down, some are being transfered to the Iraqis.

 

I'm watching info on certain areas so I can update the CO when the base is no longer part of US forces.

 

It will be interesting what happens to those caches. Just because a base is closed, I would not immediately say that it's caches should be disabled. What if, and I have never been to Iraq so can't say too much, over time, the locals adopted these caches. Some will become Iraqi bases, but some might become public access land. I'm just thinking out loud here. I mean, the ideal situation is that Iraq becomes a place where recreational pursuits like geocaching become commonplace.

 

When and if that happens, the exception for military base caches in Iraq might expire since the locals will want access to them but they are behind a gate. We'll see...

 

In the meantime, I would hope that any TBs and coins would be rescued before the Coalition Troops pack up and leave a base with caches, just in case.

 

JohnE5, looks like it might happen. Good Luck. Keep us posted. I live near West Point, which has no caches, and it might be nice to see a couple in the public access areas of the beautiful base/campus, although I'd probably leave it to those that actually live/work/study there to place it.

[+Too Tall John]

I think the poster that said "valid ID" meant a valid DoD ID. Civilian DoD employees carry a CAC (Common Access Card) that will allow access to a military base (with a valid reason for being there). But a "driver's license" isn't sufficient.

Well then that is what the poster ought to have said.

 

I fully stand by my original posting.

I think that most anyone who thought a second about what is meant by "valid ID" would come to the conclusion that it meant "ID the guard would find appropriate." You can stand by your original post all you want, but blindly standing on a teetering stool usually ends badly for the standee.

 

(If you don't care to think about it, I'll tell you. The standee is you. The teetering stool is your post.)

 

Back on topic: This is all a great example of why we have "Guidelines" not "Rules." The local cache reviewers in the overseas locations see that caching on base is a better option than off, so with proper permission, the caches are allowed. With proper permission and a really good reason why the cache works better in your proposed location than elsewhere**, I bet you'd have a better shot.

 

**(ie "The cache is at the Base Museum. Can't bring people to the museum if the cache is 10 miles away!")

[Mr.Yuck]

I think the poster that said "valid ID" meant a valid DoD ID. Civilian DoD employees carry a CAC (Common Access Card) that will allow access to a military base (with a valid reason for being there). But a "driver's license" isn't sufficient.

Well then that is what the poster ought to have said.

 

I fully stand by my original posting.

I think that most anyone who thought a second about what is meant by "valid ID" would come to the conclusion that it meant "ID the guard would find appropriate." You can stand by your original post all you want, but blindly standing on a teetering stool usually ends badly for the standee.

 

(If you don't care to think about it, I'll tell you. The standee is you. The teetering stool is your post.)

 

Back on topic: This is all a great example of why we have "Guidelines" not "Rules." The local cache reviewers in the overseas locations see that caching on base is a better option than off, so with proper permission, the caches are allowed. With proper permission and a really good reason why the cache works better in your proposed location than elsewhere**, I bet you'd have a better shot.

 

**(ie "The cache is at the Base Museum. Can't bring people to the museum if the cache is 10 miles away!")

 

I didn't see this little sub disagreement. Depending on which CONUS (Continental U.S.) post you want to enter, civillians who never served a day in the military can be let on base for purposes of visiting museums and such, with, I assume just a valid drivers license. For example, I highly doubt all the 140 visitors to the virtual cache on Ft. Sill, Oklahoma at Geronimo's grave site had valid military or DOD civillian employee Id.

[+bittsen]

I didn't see this little sub disagreement. Depending on which CONUS (Continental U.S.) post you want to enter, civillians who never served a day in the military can be let on base for purposes of visiting museums and such, with, I assume just a valid drivers license. For example, I highly doubt all the 140 visitors to the virtual cache on Ft. Sill, Oklahoma at Geronimo's grave site had valid military or DOD civillian employee Id.

 

I, for one, can verify that this is true of MCRD San Diego. Let's call it what it is. Boot camp.

All public is welcome on Thursdays, Fridays, and Saturdays during ertain hours. It's graduation time and they love to have family, friends, and those proud of the young Marines show up for support.

[+Sioneva]

<snip>

 

I didn't see this little sub disagreement. Depending on which CONUS (Continental U.S.) post you want to enter, civillians who never served a day in the military can be let on base for purposes of visiting museums and such, with, I assume just a valid drivers license. For example, I highly doubt all the 140 visitors to the virtual cache on Ft. Sill, Oklahoma at Geronimo's grave site had valid military or DOD civillian employee Id.

 

The one virtual cache at Offutt AFB is outside the secured area, thus accessible to all. No getting on base without a CAC (DoD civilian ID) or proper military ID. When I placed a cache close to another gate, it was very carefully scrutinized by the reviewer and I had to prove it was off base before it was approved.

 

Just a FYI!

Edited November 4, 2009 by Sioneva

[+renruts]

Quite a few military installations in the states have caches located on base. They're located in areas where public access is permitted such as museums or historical sites.

Do a search of these installations which have caches on base. No doubt there are others. Showing your reviewer there are caches are on military installations might help you get your cache approved:

Ft Benning, GA

Pensacola NAS, FL

Lackland AFB, TX

Ft Sam Houston, TX

Ellsworth AFB, SD

Ft Riley, KS

Ft Knox, KY

Ft Huachuca, AZ

Wright Patterson AFB, OH

Eglin AFB, FL

Offutt AFB, NE

McConnell AFB, KS

Kirtland AFB, NM

 

Good luck!

You left Ft Irwin and Ft. Drum off this list. At least from my last visits for MRXs both had caches just outside the gates. still on DoD property. At NTC there is one in the guard rail just after the painted rocks... I also think there maybe one at Camp Perry, but a lot of the oridignal 640 acres of Camp Perry I think has been changed to Park status.

[+Bergie Bunch]

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer. If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache.[/i]

THIS PART seems to be the key to the argument! You CAN place a cache ON or NEAR a MILITARY INSTALLATION. So, why the argument? Follow the guidelines, toew the line, get permission, place the cache, just like ANY OTHER cache.

 

People keep posting that cache placement near a military base is a no no, but yet in the guidelines, it IS possible.

Edited November 5, 2009 by Bergie Bunch

[+Shop99er]

The Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines read this way.

 

Off-Limits Caches

* Caches near or on military installations.

 

And again, this blurb from the guidelines slipped throught the bolding

 

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer. If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache.

 

It seems evident to me anyway, that:

 

1) Caches on or near bases are allowed. After all they exsist.

 

2) If the manager of the property ( the Commanding Officer in this case) says yes, then the cache should be approved.

 

Talk to MWR, or, if you can, the Commander. The worst they can say is no.

 

**edit--screwed up some coding**

Edited November 6, 2009 by Shop99er

[+Cav Scout]

Seeing how you live close to Fort Lewis I would like to know if you ever tried placing a cache on that military post. I was there this year and did not see any on Lewis.

 

Have you ever tried before?

 

The Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines read this way.

 

Off-Limits Caches

* Caches near or on military installations.

 

And again, this blurb from the guidelines slipped throught the bolding

 

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer. If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache.

 

It seems evident to me anyway, that:

 

1) Caches on or near bases are allowed. After all they exsist.

 

2) If the manager of the property ( the Commanding Officer in this case) says yes, then the cache should be approved.

 

Talk to MWR, or, if you can, the Commander. The worst they can say is no.

 

**edit--screwed up some coding**

[+Dgwphotos]

Did they loosen the restrictions on visiting museums? The last time I had checked (which was several years ago) you had to know someone on base to get permission to even visit the museum. This was at Fort Lewis.

[+Bergie Bunch]

The Cache Listing Requirements / Guidelines read this way.

 

Off-Limits Caches

* Caches near or on military installations.

 

And again, this blurb from the guidelines slipped throught the bolding

 

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer. If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache.

 

It seems evident to me anyway, that:

 

1) Caches on or near bases are allowed. After all they exsist.

 

2) If the manager of the property ( the Commanding Officer in this case) says yes, then the cache should be approved.

 

Talk to MWR, or, if you can, the Commander. The worst they can say is no.

 

**edit--screwed up some coding**

WOW, an 8 hour echo...lol I thought it was a double post at first. Great minds!

[+pinkunicorn]

If you are in Iraq or Afghanistan, odds are you are affiliated with the military i.e. in the military or a contractor working for the military and have the proper ID to gain access to get on and have a reason for being on the camps, FOB’s, COP’s etc. But Joe civilian back in the U.S. does not have a valid reason to be wondering around a military installation [...]

 

Assumption: All geocachers are from the US.

Status: faulty

[+Moose Mob]

Caches on Military bases? Sure - if they allow it.

 

A couple of the bases around Yuma allow hiking and stuff by permit. Caches are allowed as well. But these are exceptions, not the rule. Caches on Nellis AFB are not allowed, and the cache in Area 51 does not exist. The Base Commander for Fallon NAS allowed the cache in the picnic area outside the front gate.

 

The guidelines are not rock solid, so be careful before you quote this and repeat that. As a general rule, no caches allowed. If you get the right permission from the right person, it can happen.

[+EscapeFromFlatland]

It will be interesting what happens to those caches. Just because a base is closed, I would not immediately say that it's caches should be disabled. What if, and I have never been to Iraq so can't say too much, over time, the locals adopted these caches. Some will become Iraqi bases, but some might become public access land. I'm just thinking out loud here. I mean, the ideal situation is that Iraq becomes a place where recreational pursuits like geocaching become commonplace.

 

When and if that happens, the exception for military base caches in Iraq might expire since the locals will want access to them but they are behind a gate. We'll see...

 

In the meantime, I would hope that any TBs and coins would be rescued before the Coalition Troops pack up and leave a base with caches, just in case.

 

This is an issue that is happening rather quickly. In 9 months the number of US forces in Iraq will drop by 50%, and several bases will be handed over and others shut down. My thought is to contact both the cache owner and the reviewer that the cache is on a base that has transfered ownership or shut down, and let them decide the fate of the cache.

 

I can't give any details, but I've got Operation Coin Return happening shortly to hopefully rescue the trackables on a base that is shutting down sometime soon.

[majormajor42]

 

I can't give any details, but I've got Operation Coin Return happening shortly to hopefully rescue the trackables on a base that is shutting down sometime soon.

 

 

Awesome. God Speed. We'll have to have a "OCR: Mission Accomplished" event when you return with the bugs.

[+fog]

My fellow iraqi cachers and I are regularly in touch with the MWR folks and command post regarding our activities here at Victory base complex.

 

In general, the base commander decides if geocaching is a go or no go. About a year ago, the base commander at Balad gave the no-go and local cachers scrambled to retrieve the caches and archive them.

 

Two point I'd like to stress...

 

1. Geocaching is a morale booster, and troop's morale is a very important and sensitive topic these days. This consideration should trump stricter interpretations of GC guidelines IMHO. As an aside, I have closely monitored the few caches in Iraq that are truly public and not on military bases (like GC1DBX4). It appears there have been no logs by locals or tourists that do not have access to the bases. In short, the access restriction hasn't excluded anyone specifically yet, in practice.

 

It is my intention to place caches in public places near famous landmarks in Baghdad or Babylon, but it simply isn't safe right now to do so, and I expect it won't be for a long time - even after the draw down.

 

2. Geocaches on FOBs promote the sport. Many folks have been introduced to geocaching right here in Iraq. Some folks that use Govt-issued GPS units as part of their mission stumble into it . Some military leaders use the sport in team building exercises. A quick look at the profiles of cachers with low numbers of finds who've logged caches in Iraq will show dozens of new entrants to Geocaching who discovered the sport right here in Iraq.

 

OK - if you want to show your support for geocachers in Iraq, check out: GC2152p MAGC - A Combat Cacher's Christmas

 

Peace - Love - Fog