What Mantra Do You Use to Deal With Inconsiderate Cachers?

October 28, 2009

Yes, this is pretty much a rant and would appreciate a kindly pat on the shoulder with an appropriate "there, there" because I don't think that there is a solution for this. The issue du jour is the inconsiderate cachers that I've run into lately who have caused caches to break or get muggled, and often in the name of being the FTF as they rush from cache to cache to try to grab them all.

Example...a cache I just swapped out....someone very clearly had a hard time with the log and rushed it, then tore off 2/3rds of it and rolled up the remainder and inserted it into the holder...but only part way, so that in closing the cache they then pushed the end out of it so that the magnet dropped off. And instead of even saying something about it, they then just stuck the thing back the wrong way in the general place (but not the right place) and in a way which then allowed the log to get wet and further damaged to the point where the container can no longer be used. Grrr....

Example...a cache was moved from one side of an "object" to the opposite side...which then left it in the view of muggles, although a muggle wouldn't see this and think twice. But then someone put the log back in place improperly, which allowed it to get wet...which then caused the cache container to stand out just enough....so that it was muggled.

Example...have a cache where there is a lot of muggle activity but it is a great location for a variety of reasons and is a perfect fit for the container I've chosen to use. Cache description mentions this and the need for stealth. Despite that someone stood in full view of muggles knowing that they were being watched by muggles, and instead of waiting for a better time...went ahead and retrieved the cache, replaced it and went on their way after logging about all the muggles...and that afternoon the cache disappeared.

Example...have a cache that is kind of tricky because of the camo used. But I left the cache in a particular spot where it is fairly easy to see if you know what to look for. It was a challenge because it was essentially in plain view...but you couldn't actually tell that it was a cache container. And for the fourth time now when I've gone by to check it I had to move it back to its original placement because cachers decide that they'd much rather stick it several inches up inside of something where you would not see it. It's a 1.5 star cache and I'm not intending for it to be harder than it was supposed to be.

Several caches that I've gone to recently (not mine) I found with the lids only half closed, or cross-threaded, or the log jammed back in place so that the lid didn't fit well. Or you could clearly tell that the cache was not in the same spot where it had been originally placed. And so on.

And then there is the whole issue of "phone a friend" where apparently it has become "okay" to simply pass along info about a cache and its location. You can tell that it's happening (even when they don't actually log that they got help from someone other than me, the CO) because for example, a tricky cache will remain unfound for a little while...several DNFs from folks with thousands of finds....and then someone finds it...and suddenly everyone else after that is logging it as a "quick find" or "easy find" or my favorite, "great PNG!" What the heck. Makes me think that I should just place a large sign by the road that says "Geocache HERE!" so that they can quickly PNG and move along to the next one.

And I won't even go into the issue of those who take everything from a cache and leave nothing in exchange, as I see that one has its own thread(s) here.

Okay....deep breath.

I know that there really aren't "solutions" for these kind of things...and so I guess that I have to take a deep breath, mumble some sort of feel better mantra and move on. I'm confident that this type of stuff must happen a lot. I can see that after only about six weeks of caching though that one challenge I'm going to have is to avoid becoming jaded or indifferent.

Do you have a good mantra to share? Or absent that, care to share some of the problems that you've had and I'll gladly pat you on your shoulder and say "there, there" and perhaps we'll both feel better?

If nothing else, thanks for letting me rant for a few moments!

4.2k · October 28, 2009

"It's just a game". Repeat as needed.

24.7k · October 28, 2009

...Okay....deep breath....If nothing else, thanks for letting me rant for a few moments!

Ya, got to chuckle at the chuckleheads. Otherwise you would need to knuckle the knuckleheads and since you can’t that's going to cause stress, and stress leads to a shorter and less happy life.

So breathe deep and put them all in the chucklehead category and realize how difficult they make their own lives.

October 28, 2009

"It's just a game". Repeat as needed.

What he said!

8.3k · October 28, 2009

Like the bumper sticker said "The gene pool needs chlorination".

Jim

8.9k · October 28, 2009

Illegitimi non carborundum

6.5k · October 28, 2009

I just let Jim Morrison tell it straight.

edit to add-I have a coffee cup with Markwell's saying on the outside. You need to enjoy a sip or two to read the translation on the inside. It's one of two latin phrases I know.

Edited October 28, 2009 by wimseyguy

October 28, 2009

Like the bumper sticker said "The gene pool needs chlorination".

Jim

Okay, now that one also made me laugh!

October 28, 2009

"It's just a game". Repeat as needed.

Needs work as a mantra though...how about: It's just a game that I'm playing....ohhhmmmmm....

3.3k · October 28, 2009

These are rules I use to ensure long lasting caches.

Rule #1, Use containers that are waterproof in whichever direction they are replaced.

Rule #2 Don't hide caches in areas filled with muggles that may see your cache.

Rule #3 Don't hide caches easily found by inconsiderate "park & grabbers." Make finders put boots, and pants on, and make them hike for your caches.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Kit Fox

October 28, 2009

Like the bumper sticker said "The gene pool needs chlorination".

Jim

couldnt say it any better

October 28, 2009

Illegitimi non carborundum

My wife who took eight years of latin has this one on a coffee cup!

October 28, 2009

These are rules I use to ensure long lasting caches.

Rule #1, Use containers that are waterproof in whichever direction they are replaced.

Rule #2 Don't hide caches in areas filled with muggles that may see your cache.

Rule #3 Don't hide caches easily found by inconsiderate "park & grabbers." Make finders put boots, and pants on, and make them hike for your caches.

Good rules but the container I spoke of though was watertight -- until someone broke the end off of it. The muggle intensive area is only intensive during certain times...other times it is just a quiet walk in the woods when it isn't a frisbee golf course (they really shouldn't put walking trails alongside a frisbee golf course anyway though!). The PNGs aren't actually that though -- they do have to get out and walk, they just **say** that they were a quick PNG (for whatever reason).

October 28, 2009

All of this make me wonder about something -- does anyone post fake caches for FTF hounds to find? (e.g., a mini bison near the actual cache with a note congratulating them on NOT finding the cache)

10.2k · October 28, 2009

"It's just a game". Repeat as needed.

I'll just quote CM, seeing as I don't want to quote the OP. I did read it carefully though.

I dunno, I agree with the "take a deep breath" type of advice. To be honest, it seems as though you may be headed down the slippery slope of blaming finders for not putting your cache back right, not being "stealthy" enough, etc... If you hide a cache where there are a lot of muggles, there's a good chance muggles are going to muggle it.

October 28, 2009

Newbie here so pls go easy on me, but..

.. I've come across a couple of (nano or micro) caches that were hard to replace (roll up and fit back into tube).. I took my time and managed to do it but wondered how long they'd survive this kind of treatment, or what would happen if someone less careful came along..

If you assume a certain level of skill or care, you might consider making the cache available to only premium members, who care enough to at least pay the additional $$..

Just thinking out loud, really..

..a

October 28, 2009

Newbie here so pls go easy on me, but..

.. I've come across a couple of (nano or micro) caches that were hard to replace (roll up and fit back into tube).. I took my time and managed to do it but wondered how long they'd survive this kind of treatment, or what would happen if someone less careful came along..

If you assume a certain level of skill or care, you might consider making the cache available to only premium members, who care enough to at least pay the additional $$..

Just thinking out loud, really..

..a

Good point and I have been doing that lately (the premium/charter option).

But the logs...the first thing that I grabbed when I started this six weeks ago was a itty bitty log rolling tool. Otherwise I'd never get half the logs I find put back in.

October 28, 2009

"It's just a game". Repeat as needed.

I'll just quote CM, seeing as I don't want to quote the OP. I did read it carefully though.

I dunno, I agree with the "take a deep breath" type of advice. To be honest, it seems as though you may be headed down the slippery slope of blaming finders for not putting your cache back right, not being "stealthy" enough, etc... If you hide a cache where there are a lot of muggles, there's a good chance muggles are going to muggle it.

Points well taken but in a larger metro area where I am (largest city in Virginia) you are going to end up having caches where there are people. Which though is why I carefully placed one on the opposite side from where they'd be. But I'd think that for replacing a cache that it would be at minimum courtesy to the next cacher to put it back at least approximately where you found it so that they have the same caching "experience" (I would think it rude to second guess the CO by deciding that you thought the cache should be placed in a different manner) - but in the example I was giving about the one that broke the cache they broke it and then because of that they couldn't replace it as it was so they just stuck it back any old way...I think that's different from what you're suggesting.

19k · October 28, 2009

<pat><pat> "there, there" </pat></pat>

Feeling better now?

October 28, 2009

<pat><pat> "there, there" </pat></pat>

Feeling better now?

Ahhhhh.....yes, feeling better thank you, thank you very much!

10.2k · October 28, 2009

"It's just a game". Repeat as needed.

I'll just quote CM, seeing as I don't want to quote the OP. I did read it carefully though.

I dunno, I agree with the "take a deep breath" type of advice. To be honest, it seems as though you may be headed down the slippery slope of blaming finders for not putting your cache back right, not being "stealthy" enough, etc... If you hide a cache where there are a lot of muggles, there's a good chance muggles are going to muggle it.

Points well taken but in a larger metro area where I am (largest city in Virginia) you are going to end up having caches where there are people. Which though is why I carefully placed one on the opposite side from where they'd be. But I'd think that for replacing a cache that it would be at minimum courtesy to the next cacher to put it back at least approximately where you found it so that they have the same caching "experience" (I would think it rude to second guess the CO by deciding that you thought the cache should be placed in a different manner) - but in the example I was giving about the one that broke the cache they broke it and then because of that they couldn't replace it as it was so they just stuck it back any old way...I think that's different from what you're suggesting.

True, caches migrate from their original location, and it's pretty much a fact of life. Not necessarily inconsiderate knuckleheads, but it just happens. Me, I would (and have) offered to replace containers that I've broken. Someone doing what you describe doesn't surprise me in the least though.

October 28, 2009

"It's just a game". Repeat as needed.

I'll just quote CM, seeing as I don't want to quote the OP. I did read it carefully though.

I dunno, I agree with the "take a deep breath" type of advice. To be honest, it seems as though you may be headed down the slippery slope of blaming finders for not putting your cache back right, not being "stealthy" enough, etc... If you hide a cache where there are a lot of muggles, there's a good chance muggles are going to muggle it.

Points well taken but in a larger metro area where I am (largest city in Virginia) you are going to end up having caches where there are people. Which though is why I carefully placed one on the opposite side from where they'd be. But I'd think that for replacing a cache that it would be at minimum courtesy to the next cacher to put it back at least approximately where you found it so that they have the same caching "experience" (I would think it rude to second guess the CO by deciding that you thought the cache should be placed in a different manner) - but in the example I was giving about the one that broke the cache they broke it and then because of that they couldn't replace it as it was so they just stuck it back any old way...I think that's different from what you're suggesting.

True, caches migrate from their original location, and it's pretty much a fact of life. Not necessarily inconsiderate knuckleheads, but it just happens. Me, I would (and have) offered to replace containers that I've broken. Someone doing what you describe doesn't surprise me in the least though.

Yes, was anticipating that nobody would come here shocked to learn of such things for the first time.

7.3k · October 28, 2009

There there, it'll all feel fine.......................................... shortly after beer thirty (and some gene pool chlorination)

I used to own some clever and unique urban hides. One in particular I was fond of, and many cachers remarked its perfection. Right container, absolutely custom to an attractive spot. However, I got tired of owning them, on account of some people are pretty darn inconsiderate; you nailed that in your rant.

Now, I own a fair number of caches, and they're nearly all ammo cans way the heck out in some swamp. That's a solution. Maybe not your ideal solution, but a solution that's workin' here.

October 28, 2009

There there, it'll all feel fine.......................................... shortly after beer thirty (and some gene pool chlorination)

I used to own some clever and unique urban hides. One in particular I was fond of, and many cachers remarked its perfection. Right container, absolutely custom to an attractive spot. However, I got tired of owning them, on account of some people are pretty darn inconsiderate; you nailed that in your rant.

Now, I own a fair number of caches, and they're nearly all ammo cans way the heck out in some swamp. That's a solution. Maybe not your ideal solution, but a solution that's workin' here.

Thanks! I'm laughing my posterior off right now!

I am considering turning all of mine into caches placed in tall trees using model rockets to get them there....or placed carefully into bath tissue boats and sent to float into the sewer system (at least as far as they do float). But we do have the Great Dismal Swamp not that far from me...hadn't considered the swamp option as one way to force them to put boots on the ground.

3.6k · October 28, 2009

Example...a cache was moved from one side of an "object" to the opposite side..

Caches almost always seem to migrate from their original spot. It's just something that happens. A local hider has trouble when he has to do maintenance on a hard hide that he has because he can never find it because it's not where he hid it.

Example...Cache description mentions this and the need for stealth.

A lot of finders don't "do" stealth and just go up and grab the caches. Again, this is part of caching, and something that you can't control. Just curious how you know someone found it and stood there in plain view? Did they mention in their logs or was someone watching them?

Example...I've gone by to check it I had to move it back to its original placement because cachers decide that they'd much rather stick it several inches up inside of something where you would not see it.

This is a pet peeve of mine. I don't like reading that someone someone replaced the cache better than found. How do they know how the owner wanted it to be? If there's a question about the hide, replace it as found and email the owner. The owner might have wanted it to be sitting out in plain view.

So, in summary, "It's a game."

4.1k · October 28, 2009

Somehow, it seems that when people do not close the lid tightly on decon containers or Pelican boxes that they are always the caches that are on top of a ridge after a long hike. As one person said to me years ago, cache maintenance sucks. I do not have a mantra for these types of situations, but it is nice to rant once in a while.

3.4k · October 28, 2009

Keep the cache simple (some cachers really are very simple)
Place the cache where accessing it will not impact its environment (i.e. cause geotrails to form)
The moment it's published, write it off, as if it's already gone.
Don't worry about it.

8.3k · October 28, 2009

Speaking of migrating caches. I have a guard rail cache the has a habit of moving around. When some one is looking for a while the friendly scooter riding muggle comes and and asks if they are geocaching, if so he points out the spots it has been found. Not all muggles are bad.

Jim

October 28, 2009

It's only a game ... It's only a game ... It's only a game. I love the people who use the phone for advice on caches. We have a looong multi out in the woods. Some cachers mentioned they couldn't find Stage 1, but they "stumbled" on to Stage 2. Pretty lucky considering it was a half mile away in a forest. These people should be buying lottery tickets, not caching!

October 28, 2009

Example...a cache was moved from one side of an "object" to the opposite side..

Caches almost always seem to migrate from their original spot. It's just something that happens. A local hider has trouble when he has to do maintenance on a hard hide that he has because he can never find it because it's not where he hid it.

Example...Cache description mentions this and the need for stealth.

A lot of finders don't "do" stealth and just go up and grab the caches. Again, this is part of caching, and something that you can't control. Just curious how you know someone found it and stood there in plain view? Did they mention in their logs or was someone watching them?

Example...I've gone by to check it I had to move it back to its original placement because cachers decide that they'd much rather stick it several inches up inside of something where you would not see it.

This is a pet peeve of mine. I don't like reading that someone someone replaced the cache better than found. How do they know how the owner wanted it to be? If there's a question about the hide, replace it as found and email the owner. The owner might have wanted it to be sitting out in plain view.

So, in summary, "It's a game."

About the stealth and the muggles....yes, the finder actually logged that they got hit in the head with a frisbee after hearing the muggle frisbee golfers yelling to them. To me, that would have been my clue that now was not the right time as there are times when the place is deserted.

Glad to hear that someone else hates having someone second guess their placement. On the other hand, I have had someone send me an email saying that they think that the cache wasn't in the right place, sent me a photo of where they left it...and they had a pretty good suggestion and I just left it there as they'd placed it. I hate to say it...but there is a side of me that half suspects that there are some cachers who, having found the cache themselves and posted how easy it is, then deliberately put it in a much harder position/location perhaps to make them seem "better" at caching???

October 28, 2009

It's only a game ... It's only a game ... It's only a game. I love the people who use the phone for advice on caches. We have a looong multi out in the woods. Some cachers mentioned they couldn't find Stage 1, but they "stumbled" on to Stage 2. Pretty lucky considering it was a half mile away in a forest. These people should be buying lottery tickets, not caching!

We have a big local discussion ongoing about that kind of thing right now in the local group's Yahoo forum...along with discussing people who cache together but it seems that the initials for both always look like they were written by one person...and at another cache they "both" got they both seem to be initialed by the other one person. But I have seen a few cache logs where someone said they stumbled upon a later stage by accident.

3.6k · October 28, 2009

We have a big local discussion ongoing about that kind of thing right now in the local group's Yahoo forum...along with discussing people who cache together but it seems that the initials for both always look like they were written by one person.

If we're caching in a group, the person who pulls the cache out of it's hiding spot usually signs for everyone in the group while the others go through any swag in the container. I seem to be the one who's always asked to sign the log. I think it's a ploy so they can grab any coins in the cache.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Skippermark

4.8k · October 28, 2009

We have a big local discussion ongoing about that kind of thing right now in the local group's Yahoo forum...along with discussing people who cache together but it seems that the initials for both always look like they were written by one person.

If we're caching in a group, the person who pulls the cache out of it's hiding spot usually signs for everyone in the group while the others go through any swag in the container. I seem to be the one who's always asked to sign the log. I think it's a ploy so they can grab any coins in the cache.

When I'm caching with my friend, that is exactly how we sign. If I pull the cache, I sign both our names. If he pulls it, he signs both our names. If I am caching alone, I only sign my name and the same when he is caching alone, he only signs his name.

What mantra do I use for inconsiderate cachers? I use the same mantra as I do in the forums and in real life. I hold them within in a certain range of contempt but try my hardest to not outwardly show it.

5.7k · October 28, 2009

Mantra? Are you kidding?

One word: Ignore.

October 29, 2009

Yes, this is pretty much a rant and would appreciate a kindly pat on the shoulder with an appropriate "there, there" because I don't think that there is a solution for this. The issue du jour is the inconsiderate cachers that I've run into lately who have caused caches to break or get muggled, and often in the name of being the FTF as they rush from cache to cache to try to grab them all.

Example...a cache I just swapped out....someone very clearly had a hard time with the log and rushed it, then tore off 2/3rds of it and rolled up the remainder and inserted it into the holder...but only part way, so that in closing the cache they then pushed the end out of it so that the magnet dropped off. And instead of even saying something about it, they then just stuck the thing back the wrong way in the general place (but not the right place) and in a way which then allowed the log to get wet and further damaged to the point where the container can no longer be used. Grrr....

Example...a cache was moved from one side of an "object" to the opposite side...which then left it in the view of muggles, although a muggle wouldn't see this and think twice. But then someone put the log back in place improperly, which allowed it to get wet...which then caused the cache container to stand out just enough....so that it was muggled.

*If the cache was muggled, how do you know this is why?

Example...have a cache where there is a lot of muggle activity but it is a great location for a variety of reasons and is a perfect fit for the container I've chosen to use. Cache description mentions this and the need for stealth. Despite that someone stood in full view of muggles knowing that they were being watched by muggles, and instead of waiting for a better time...went ahead and retrieved the cache, replaced it and went on their way after logging about all the muggles...and that afternoon the cache disappeared.

*ummm... same thing. If it was muggled, how do you know this is why? did the cachers confess?

Example...have a cache that is kind of tricky because of the camo used. But I left the cache in a particular spot where it is fairly easy to see if you know what to look for. It was a challenge because it was essentially in plain view...but you couldn't actually tell that it was a cache container. And for the fourth time now when I've gone by to check it I had to move it back to its original placement because cachers decide that they'd much rather stick it several inches up inside of something where you would not see it. It's a 1.5 star cache and I'm not intending for it to be harder than it was supposed to be.

Several caches that I've gone to recently (not mine) I found with the lids only half closed, or cross-threaded, or the log jammed back in place so that the lid didn't fit well. Or you could clearly tell that the cache was not in the same spot where it had been originally placed. And so on.

And then there is the whole issue of "phone a friend" where apparently it has become "okay" to simply pass along info about a cache and its location. You can tell that it's happening (even when they don't actually log that they got help from someone other than me, the CO) because for example, a tricky cache will remain unfound for a little while...several DNFs from folks with thousands of finds....and then someone finds it...and suddenly everyone else after that is logging it as a "quick find" or "easy find" or my favorite, "great PNG!" What the heck. Makes me think that I should just place a large sign by the road that says "Geocache HERE!" so that they can quickly PNG and move along to the next one.

And I won't even go into the issue of those who take everything from a cache and leave nothing in exchange, as I see that one has its own thread(s) here.

Okay....deep breath.

I know that there really aren't "solutions" for these kind of things...and so I guess that I have to take a deep breath, mumble some sort of feel better mantra and move on. I'm confident that this type of stuff must happen a lot. I can see that after only about six weeks of caching though that one challenge I'm going to have is to avoid becoming jaded or indifferent.

Do you have a good mantra to share? Or absent that, care to share some of the problems that you've had and I'll gladly pat you on your shoulder and say "there, there" and perhaps we'll both feel better?

If nothing else, thanks for letting me rant for a few moments!

I agree with most of what you said but the issues I commented on.

1.9k · October 29, 2009

All of this make me wonder about something -- does anyone post fake caches for FTF hounds to find? (e.g., a mini bison near the actual cache with a note congratulating them on NOT finding the cache)

And if that hound is also a hider, you just gave em a free bison.

6.7k · October 29, 2009

Rambler's Mantra

The best part about geocaching is that anyone can participate.

The worst part about geocaching is that anyone can participate. :blink:

October 29, 2009

There were a couple of caches that I had to re-hide. They were camo taped pill bottles in cemeterys. They were both on the ground right next to trees. They were blatantly out of place and in both trees there were spots that looked perfect to hide something. I think I'd rather put a cache back in the wrong spot though if it was completely visible and in danger of being muggled. Of course I always mention when I have to move a cache for any reason in my log. If the CO cares enough, they will go check on it and make sure it is where it should be or move it back.

October 29, 2009

It's just a game that I'm playing....ohhhmmmmm....

An example from a few minutes ago...got a needs maintenance note last night about one of my hides having a full log, so zipped over to the site with a fresh log and spare container just in case. Got there and couldn't find my cache. Thought it was muggled sometime last night after the last finder was there. Then looked in all the places it shouldn't be, and yup, there it was quite a bit away from where it was supposed to be. And it would seem to me at least to be pretty much impossible for the container to get accidentally placed where it was (as you can't reach where it ended up from where it was originally placed). Where it originally was placed allowed for you to be screened from any muggles and where it ended up would make it a whole lot easier to be seen. And I then realized that not only was the log full, but the container itself was missing a part and another piece was broken and about to be lost from the container. So I just swapped it out with a replacement container.

It's just a game that I'm playing....ohhhmmmmm....

October 29, 2009

All of this make me wonder about something -- does anyone post fake caches for FTF hounds to find? (e.g., a mini bison near the actual cache with a note congratulating them on NOT finding the cache)

And if that hound is also a hider, you just gave em a free bison.

You might be right...but what the heck as a mini bison only costs about a part of a Coke. But I would just about put money on something else happening....I think that some are in such a hurry to sign and move on that I bet that they just might sign a fake log even if it says "you have NOT found the cache" and the FTF space says "First to Fail" on it. I think that I'd end up with at least a few folks claiming the find without realizing that they'd not found it.

3.6k · October 29, 2009

I didn't really explain my mantra when I did my original post. The Alabama Rambler's post probably sums me up best. I just cache and have a good time and not worry too much about anything bad, though the way the Yankees game went last night has me worried a bit. :blink:

Edited October 29, 2009 by Skippermark

24.7k · October 29, 2009

Illegitimi non carborundum

Good advice.

24.7k · October 29, 2009

We have a big local discussion ongoing about that kind of thing right now in the local group's Yahoo forum...along with discussing people who cache together but it seems that the initials for both always look like they were written by one person.

If we're caching in a group, the person who pulls the cache out of it's hiding spot usually signs for everyone in the group while the others go through any swag in the container. I seem to be the one who's always asked to sign the log. I think it's a ploy so they can grab any coins in the cache.

It is a ploy, That's why we play hot potato with the log. "It's your turn to sign, No It's your turn, Well I'm the one with beer in the fridge, you are dry...Good point I'll dign the dang log".

October 29, 2009

Newbie here so pls go easy on me, but..

.. I've come across a couple of (nano or micro) caches that were hard to replace (roll up and fit back into tube).. I took my time and managed to do it but wondered how long they'd survive this kind of treatment, or what would happen if someone less careful came along..

If you assume a certain level of skill or care, you might consider making the cache available to only premium members, who care enough to at least pay the additional $$..

Just thinking out loud, really..

..a

We're newbies too, so I sometimes feel that we don't know enough to comment. But consideration is consideration, no matter how many caches someone has found or hidden.

I just wanted to put out an "Oh No!" to the comment on making more caches only available to premium members. First, we aren't premium members, and I can tell you we are probably more concerned with being responsible cachers than some premium members. The comment on the gene pool kinda says it all... IMHO you are not going to get any more people who want to "do the right thing" who are premiums than who are not. We have been wanting to get a FTF, but there's no way because the premiums get the notifications the minute they're posted, and off they go to get that FTF. You're right... from some logs I've read, there is a frenzy attached to it, and they are the premium members!

So far, I see this as being the primary advantage of being a premium over being a member, and the only reason we have thought of paying. However, I have been spending a lot of time on the site and notice a strong correlation between cachers who have logged thousands of finds, especially a lot of PNG and FTF and those folks are premiums. I have a feeling that doesn't make them any less frenetic about how they cache.

Also, I find it incredibly disappointing when I find a really good cache to go find, based on area and difficulty ratings, etc. and open it only to find that I can't see it because someone thinks I'm not good enough because I haven't paid my $30! Please don't go down that road to solve your problems. I think there have been some other really good suggestions here as to how to lessen problems.

In the meantime, just try to be philosophical and remember that you are dealing with the masses in this sport, and, as in everything else in life, there's always going to be the few who ruin it for the rest of us who try and do a good job. Nothin' you can do about it. Deep Breath... deep breath... deep breath :rolleyes:

October 29, 2009

:rolleyes:

Let me make it clear - I don't think all micros or hard-to-replace caches should be for premium members. My point was, if the OP was concerned about *his* caches, he could do that if he felt it would help..

..a

October 29, 2009

I feel for you. Some people are just jerks. I had cache that was out of sight but someone placed in clear view. Fortunately I checked on it that day. I hid it better. People that do these type of things shouldn't be allowed to participate but unfortunately there is no way to enforce that. Best you can do it try to pin point which cachers are the most inconsiderate and check you cache any time they find it. The caches I pass by often I check once a month. The caches that are a little more out of my way I check whenever I am by them or when I get 3 DNF's in a row, or if someone tells me it doesn't look right.

October 29, 2009

Let me make it clear - I don't think all micros or hard-to-replace caches should be for premium members. My point was, if the OP was concerned about *his* caches, he could do that if he felt it would help..

..a

I understand... I was just making an appeal to the comment about premium member who pay enough to care (paraphrase.) This is not directed toward you, personally. It was brought up in another post as well.

I was offended the first time I tried to open a cache page and it said it was for "Premium members only." I was just making a general appeal to all cachers to please not practice this strategy. Sure $30/year isn't much, but everyone's tight right now. And I'm not convinced that it is going to sift out any of the trouble makers.

10.1k · October 29, 2009

Rambler's Mantra

The best part about geocaching is that anyone can participate.

The worst part about geocaching is that anyone can participate.

Rambler says it all. You have to deal with, and think about, all cachers. Not just the courteous ones, not just the smart ones, but all cachers. And, likewise, all muggles. If you put a cache where it might easily be muggled, it will be muggled. If you design a cache container that needs to be closed in a special way, it won't be. If you hide a cache in the perfect spot, it will be put back somewhere else. You learn to deal with this.

My philosophy of life, and therefore my mantra is: Oh, well.

2.4k · October 30, 2009

Have to agree that it really goes both ways.

yes, a lot of people in general tend to be inconsiderate. THis is life.

Especially if they think no one is looking, they think no one will know. Yeah, right.

But a lot of cache owners put their caches in high muggle spots and get mad when they get muggled.

There was one on the forums not too long ago who expected people to wait until traffic cleared at the traffic signal.

He timed it (when he was there, which was not rush hour) at 20 minutes. So 20 mintues to find a time clear to find, and 20 minutes to put back. How many of us want to spend 40 minutes at a micro at a stoplight?

Don't be shy, raise your hands now.

At this point if I see a cache at a place where there is really no chance of finding a clear moment I figure the owner must not be too concerned.

I do my best, but there is only so much we can do.

5.7k · October 30, 2009

Have to agree that it really goes both ways.

yes, a lot of people in general tend to be inconsiderate. THis is life.

Especially if they think no one is looking, they think no one will know. Yeah, right.

But a lot of cache owners put their caches in high muggle spots and get mad when they get muggled.

There was one on the forums not too long ago who expected people to wait until traffic cleared at the traffic signal.

He timed it (when he was there, which was not rush hour) at 20 minutes. So 20 mintues to find a time clear to find, and 20 minutes to put back. How many of us want to spend 40 minutes at a micro at a stoplight?

Don't be shy, raise your hands now.

At this point if I see a cache at a place where there is really no chance of finding a clear moment I figure the owner must not be too concerned.

I do my best, but there is only so much we can do.

You meant 40 seconds didn't you?

What Mantra Do You Use to Deal With Inconsiderate Cachers?

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