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NJ open space


jinxeee
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I love you like brothers, but here is the deal. You are making this thread political by solicitation of votes on a particular ballot question. I would be like me coming on here and saying a Vote for Corzine is like a vote for the ascendancy of balding , bespectacled , goatee wearing middle aged males, or if I WERE TO SAY a vote for Christie is like a vote for the rotund republican middle aged male. I might think I can't lose under either circumstance.

 

But before you go throwing your vote at something that sounds so great, take to examine the make up of this coalition. Take your time to see what it is that they are actually proposing and balance that with the knowledge you have of our state.

They Say

The acquisition and capital funds could be provided by bonding an annual dedicated stream of approximately $150 million. These amounts are in addition to the $35 million a year provided by the passage of ballot question #2 in November 2006.

 

The questions in my mind when it comes to bonding :

A) Is it designed to benefit the bond underwriting community and the tax free investment community at the expense of the taxpayer (Back in the day I worked in the periphery of the BONDING COMMUNITY) Lower forms of humans may exist but you would be hard pressed to find them, If you could they are probably called investment bankers. The enrich themselves at the expense of the unsuspecting public, often by cloaking their agenda in programs that no one can say no to. Excepting of course those who go and study the high sounding programs. Afterall, who can be against the Environment. Well guess what if you know how NJ handles the environment and its programs--you might think differently.

:anicute: Is another added burden on the taxpayer going to measurably benefit the interest of anyone in the state. Is the highest taxed populace in the entire country deserving of being smacked around again.

C) Do we need to add open space , when we are increasingly unable to maintain our current inventory. Has anyone seen how Ringwood State Park is falling into ruin. Has anyone really examined how our DEPE has promoted the use of our presently owned land. Do people know that Passaic County Parks Dept has 3 full time field workers, or that High Mountain Reservation has no public funds devoted to its upkeep.

D) Why am I being subjected to a political pitch, on a geocaching thread, rather than being invited to examine the facts for myself.

 

Finally, after having looked at some of the organizations I think I would not be likely to align myself blindly with with proposal.

Edited by Packanack
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Without going further into the matter , I would suggest that each person read the following stories, supplied through links , and make your own choice in good conscience after fleshing out the facts. More than 25% of the state is now "preserved", and I personally believe that the NJDEPE is a poor steward of the lands. I believe we should have a separate bureau free from the DEPE to run the parks, run the WMA, take care of hunting and fishing and the like. But I digress--please take your time and make your choice after becoming familiar with the facts.

 

http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/o...gan_102509.html

 

http://www.northjersey.com/news/environmen...ce_measure.html

 

http://www.northjersey.com/news/environmen...e_question.html

 

http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/o...eon_102509.html

 

I love open space as much as anyone, but this thing is more about turf fields, basketball courts than it is about hiking.

Edited by Packanack
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Vote NO! We are so far in debt that we cannot affod it. And the system is badly abused, and not serving the purpose for which it was intended. Only a small percent goes for preserving open spaces.

 

That is my quarrel with this. I always voted yes for any open space funding. Then I learned that much of this money was going to building playgrounds, ball fields and all sorts of uses not related to preserving open spaces. My town was talking about putting in artificial turf ball fields (which I support), but much of the funding is to come from "green acres" money. That really got my attention. I thought this money was about preserving land, and if it was I would support it. Unfortunately it isn't.

Edited by briansnat
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Vote NO! We are so far in debt that we cannot affod it. And the system is badly abused, and not serving the purpose for which it was intended. Only a small percent goes for preserving open spaces.

 

That is my quarrel with this. I always voted yes for any open space funding. Then I learned that much of this money was going to building playgrounds, ball fields and all sorts of uses not related to preserving open spaces. My town was talking about putting in artificial turf ball fields (which I support), but much of the funding is to come from "green acres" money. That really got my attention. I thought this money was about preserving land, and if it was I would support it. Unfortunately it isn't.

 

Hmmm that is interesting, I never thought of that myself. Arggg, politics.

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I would not think that the Hackensack River Keeper would do otherwise.

 

If you want to continue this discussion, I am quite willing to do so. I love open space and preservation of open space, but this program has gone awry. Some people can't seem to disconnect, they seem to think that they are so how disloyal or impure if they vote no against a measure that cloaks itself in environmentalism, even if the more intelligent course is to vote no and require some semblance of responsibility on the part of politicians and bond purveyors.

 

Read this article:

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/n...ner_park_i.html

 

30 years--This land has been owned for 30 years

9 acres at 1 million dollars per acre

Political overtones- A representative from the White House coming to a ribbon cutting

 

For what it is worth, I suggest a NO vote until the point gets made.

 

Right now the Weber Tract in Kinnelon purchasse makes more sense than what they in Trenton are shoving our way. This state simply has gone beyond what is fiscally sound. Do not add to it. There are pipeline projects that will take several years to finish and this can be revisited then. Fear of bulldozers is the least of our fears. Most of the land being acquired now is from developers who don't want to have to carry it anymore and have no money or desire to develope in a down market.

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:rolleyes: I Will provide One fully loaded,ready for hiding, illustrated ammo can for the person who correctly predicts the outcome of this issue in the election tomorrow and is closest to the percentage of votes. Official results taken from the Star Ledger on Wednesday, winner to be selected from those willing to stick their neck out and make an on line prediction, open only to NJ cachers. Retail value not to be less than $25.00, in the event of a tie, the prize will be triplicated and awarded, if there are more than 3 winners the first to post will each take home a prize.

 

Post must be entered on the forum by 8 PM tomorrow. This is not a solicitation for wagering purposes.

 

MY PREDICTION IS THAT IT GOES DOWN TO DEFEAT WITH A 52.2 AGAINST MARGIN.

 

The older I get the more I think it is important for all of us to go out and exercise the franchise.

Edited by Packanack
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It is Harry Dolphin with 52/48 , with an unprecedented , uncanny knack for reading the sentiments of the NJ electorate. The man with the finger on the pulse of the Garden State, we stand in awe of your power. :)

 

I just got measly second place B) It feels like running after a newly posted cache and being STF.

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