Life time membership

[+releasethedogs]

why is there no option for life time membership? Id do it if it was life time. Don't want to buy a year membership because it is too hot to cache in Arizona during the summer and the other option does not have alot of value.

 

so how about it... option for life time membership?

[+dakin55]

So its $30 for a year how much do you think it should cost? You would need to factor in the cost of future expenses this site will have to pay, So maybe a discount for pre-paying for a life time $25 year say 30 years of access. so would $750 for a lifetime make it worth while.

Sorry couldn't resist

[+releasethedogs]

something along the lines of what tivo does. 12.95/mo or 299-399 for life time.

It can't cost more for this website to run then it does to maintain tivo's network.

[+Yossarian]

Here's Groundspeak's response to the last thread on the subject.

 

Most places that offer lifetime memberships are non-profits or magazines. I can't think of another business aside from TiVo that offers one and even they discontinued the service after a couple years (please don't start listing lifetime memberships, I'm just making generalizations).

 

We're a pretty small company so there's no telling what we'll look like in 5, 10 years from now. Committing to a lifetime membership is just not something we're in a position to do.

 

Geocaching isn't really comparable to TiVo. TiVo's lifetime subscription is only good for the life of the DVR. As fast as technology changes, how many people will be using the same DVR 10 or even 5 years later?

Edited October 15, 2009 by Yossarian

[+pppingme]

So if everyone bought a lifetime membership now, and better cache listing sites come along and gc is forced to reduce their price to a more realistic (but still profitable) level of lets say $1/month or $12/year, how many of you will be upset because you overpaid for your lifetime membership and want a refund?

 

Its a realistic question you should answer before even thinking about any lifetime membership.

 

To compare it to something like a tivo, you can pretty much bet on a tivo having a lifetime of about 5 to 6 years on average (some will quit before, some will last longer, but on average, after 5 years that subscription is worthless since it can not be transferred to another piece of hardware)

[+dakboy]

So if everyone bought a lifetime membership now, and better cache listing sites come along and gc is forced to reduce their price to a more realistic (but still profitable) level of lets say $1/month or $12/year, how many of you will be upset because you overpaid for your lifetime membership and want a refund?

Just live longer, until the "lifetime" membership becomes cheaper than paying annually again.

[+okie-wan]

Surely, there must be a formula somewhere for lifetime memberships. I mentioned this on a thread once and it was not well received.

 

I'm a Life Member in the VFW and, dare I say it?.........NRA!

[+Team Cotati]

So if everyone bought a lifetime membership now, and better cache listing sites come along and gc is forced to reduce their price to a more realistic (but still profitable) level of lets say $1/month or $12/year, how many of you will be upset because you overpaid for your lifetime membership and want a refund?

 

Its a realistic question you should answer before even thinking about any lifetime membership.

 

To compare it to something like a tivo, you can pretty much bet on a tivo having a lifetime of about 5 to 6 years on average (some will quit before, some will last longer, but on average, after 5 years that subscription is worthless since it can not be transferred to another piece of hardware)

 

You failed to mention the cost of your lifetime membership in geocaching.com.

 

I can tell you though, depending upon your price proposal, and my personal assessment of the likelihood of any entity giving serious challenge to Groundspeak..........I'd do it in a heart beat.

[+Lil Devil]

... and gc is forced to reduce their price to a more realistic (but still profitable) level of lets say $1/month or $12/year

You must be kidding. I think $30/year is very reasonable, and a great value for all the features I get. Heck, I spend more than that in gas in just one full day of caching

[+Danbike_Lizbike]

Both the AMA (motorcycle related) and the NRA offer lifetime single pay options. At the time I looked into them they were $500.00. I know that they are more expensive now. Remember both groups have active lobbying activities and both groups have engaged in legal issues on behalf of their members. Don't know if this is a good comparable, but it is one perspective.

 

A professional society I belong to also has an interesting angle. Once you reach 50 years of age and 25 years of service in the professional area, you only pay one more annual fee. From that point forward, you become a "lifetime certified" individual. That lifetime certification carries on after retirement at no charge also.

 

Surely, there must be a formula somewhere for lifetime memberships. I mentioned this on a thread once and it was not well received.

I'm a Life Member in the VFW and, dare I say it?.........NRA!

Edited October 15, 2009 by Danbike_Lizbike

[+baloo&bd]

Here's Groundspeak's response to the last thread on the subject.

 

Most places that offer lifetime memberships are non-profits or magazines. I can't think of another business aside from TiVo that offers one and even they discontinued the service after a couple years (please don't start listing lifetime memberships, I'm just making generalizations).

 

We're a pretty small company so there's no telling what we'll look like in 5, 10 years from now. Committing to a lifetime membership is just not something we're in a position to do.

 

Geocaching isn't really comparable to TiVo. TiVo's lifetime subscription is only good for the life of the DVR. As fast as technology changes, how many people will be using the same DVR 10 or even 5 years later?

 

I think it was pointed out in that thread, Groundspeak is missing the boat here, especially from a cash flow perspective.

 

I think everyone would be surprised how much people would pay to get a lifetime memberships. It is not so much about the savings as it is supporting the site and being able to have the LT member moniker.

[+sTeamTraen]

Most lifetime memberships are about lifetime access to something in the real world. You get an AMA or NRA membership card which entitles you to discounts, event attendance, etc. In order to get that, you have to fill in a real paper form, which for some organisations of my experience is quite a bit more complex than the regular one-year form. After all, this is a $500 transaction.

 

But it's non-bequeathable. You join the NRA and an AMA member runs you over a week later, sorry buddy, we've got your money, your son will have to fork over $500 for himself. His ID doesn't match your membership card, so that's not much good to him even if he doesn't remember to tell us you died.

 

Compare that with signing up for this site. Anyone can do it. You can create a basic membership in 2 minutes and upgrade it to Premium - and presumably "Life" - in another 3.

 

So, the $64,000 $500 question: How would Groundspeak know when you were dead? That would require them to have way more information about me than I'm willing to give them, and more importantly, way more information than they are interested in storing and being held responsible for.

Edited October 15, 2009 by sTeamTraen

[+Team Cotati]

Here's Groundspeak's response to the last thread on the subject.

 

Most places that offer lifetime memberships are non-profits or magazines. I can't think of another business aside from TiVo that offers one and even they discontinued the service after a couple years (please don't start listing lifetime memberships, I'm just making generalizations).

 

We're a pretty small company so there's no telling what we'll look like in 5, 10 years from now. Committing to a lifetime membership is just not something we're in a position to do.

 

Geocaching isn't really comparable to TiVo. TiVo's lifetime subscription is only good for the life of the DVR. As fast as technology changes, how many people will be using the same DVR 10 or even 5 years later?

 

I think it was pointed out in that thread, Groundspeak is missing the boat here, especially from a cash flow perspective.

 

I think everyone would be surprised how much people would pay to get a lifetime memberships. It is not so much about the savings as it is supporting the site and being able to have the LT member moniker.

 

"It is not so much about the savings as it is supporting the site and being able to have the LT member moniker. "

 

And this you know how, exactly?

Edited October 15, 2009 by Team Cotati

[+Team Perks]

How many people expect that they'll still be so enthusiastic about geocaching in five or ten years? Most of the cachers I've known drop out after a couple years or so, even if they're die-hard enthusiastic from the get-go.

 

I'd absolutely be willing to pay more per annum for better features (say, if you got unlimited PQs or better search options or some tangible benefit). Nit would I buy a lifetime membership for many hundreds of dollars just so I could have the LT member moniker? Not a chance.

[+baloo&bd]

And this you know how, exactly?

 

Common sense. Basic marketing concepts. Been there, done that, several times type stuff.

[+releasethedogs]

So, the $64,000 $500 question: How would Groundspeak know when you were dead? That would require them to have way more information about me than I'm willing to give them, and more importantly, way more information than they are interested in storing and being held responsible for.

or sharing accounts?

the how i don't know but i know it can be done. if porn companies know when you are sharing an account with people ( and thus lock the account) I am reasonably sure ground speak can do it also.

 

How many people expect that they'll still be so enthusiastic about geocaching in five or ten years? Most of the cachers I've known drop out after a couple years or so, even if they're die-hard enthusiastic from the get-go.

All the better for Groundspeak, they have their life time subscription money and don't have to pay for the bandwith that user would take up.

[+pppingme]

So if everyone bought a lifetime membership now, and better cache listing sites come along and gc is forced to reduce their price to a more realistic (but still profitable) level of lets say $1/month or $12/year, how many of you will be upset because you overpaid for your lifetime membership and want a refund?

 

Its a realistic question you should answer before even thinking about any lifetime membership.

 

You failed to mention the cost of your lifetime membership in geocaching.com.

 

I can tell you though, depending upon your price proposal, and my personal assessment of the likelihood of any entity giving serious challenge to Groundspeak..........I'd do it in a heart beat.

Thats my point, it doesn't matter where gc sets the "lifetime" price, when they are forced to reduce their rates for competition or other reasons, everyone will be screaming because they overpaid for the lifetime rate.

[+pppingme]

... and gc is forced to reduce their price to a more realistic (but still profitable) level of lets say $1/month or $12/year

You must be kidding. I think $30/year is very reasonable, and a great value for all the features I get. Heck, I spend more than that in gas in just one full day of caching

You might have an idea of what it costs to run a car, but no idea what it costs to run a website.

 

Comparing what it costs to run a website to your car just shows that. Spending $30 on a tank of gas doesn't mean thats what it costs to run a website.

[+Chrysalides]

Thats my point, it doesn't matter where gc sets the "lifetime" price, when they are forced to reduce their rates for competition or other reasons, everyone will be screaming because they overpaid for the lifetime rate.

Personally, I think that is rather unlikely to happen (monthly rate reduction).

 

However, even if it does, so what will you, as a lifetime member, do? Commit geocide? That'll make your lifetime membership worthless instead of, what, $12 a year.

 

To the OP : sign up for 2 x 3 month membership every year, spread it out so that it covers the 9 months you cache, with some months without premium membership. Sure, you won't get up to the minute PQs, but most of the time it is good enough. There, I saved you 33%. Personally, I think it's more hassle than it is worth. If it's too hot to geocache 3 months out of the year, that place is too hot to live in

[+Chrysalides]

You must be kidding. I think $30/year is very reasonable, and a great value for all the features I get. Heck, I spend more than that in gas in just one full day of caching

You might have an idea of what it costs to run a car, but no idea what it costs to run a website.

 

Comparing what it costs to run a website to your car just shows that. Spending $30 on a tank of gas doesn't mean thats what it costs to run a website.

Lil Devil's remark doesn't indicate $30 a year is a fair price for running a website. He (hope I don't get the gender wrong) means it is a value that people find acceptable (which is indicated by comparing to his other expenses). Since it is what the market will bear, there is no reason for Groundspeak to reduce it.

 

Your point, of course, is "what if there is a competitor with a lower price". While the mantra of our times is "nothing is impossible", I'd like to say (in my fake British accent) "not bloody likely".

[+pppingme]

Your point, of course, is "what if there is a competitor with a lower price". While the mantra of our times is "nothing is impossible", I'd like to say (in my fake British accent) "not bloody likely".

Its that very attitude that has caused all the American car manufacturers to fall flat on their face and why Toyota is (last years sales) the number two automaker in the USA.

[+Chrysalides]

Your point, of course, is "what if there is a competitor with a lower price". While the mantra of our times is "nothing is impossible", I'd like to say (in my fake British accent) "not bloody likely".

Its that very attitude that has caused all the American car manufacturers to fall flat on their face and why Toyota is (last years sales) the number two automaker in the USA.

Perhaps. Future events could prove me wrong. However, that's not really the central point of the debate, and your rebuttal to Lil Devil borders on the insulting, which is what I wanted to point out.

 

In any case, there's no need to debate about whether geocaching.com will be the #1 website for geocaching. That's off topic, and deserves a thread or two of its own. Since Groundspeak already indicated they're not going to offer it, why even argue that it is a bad idea?

[+RiffRaff2]

Did anyone notice that the OP might think the membership is only good in Arizona???

We go to higher ground in the summer, be it in AZ or out of state and the membership still works. We do caches along a route queries to get us in and out of areas and they come through.

[OpinioNate]

... and gc is forced to reduce their price to a more realistic (but still profitable) level of lets say $1/month or $12/year

You must be kidding. I think $30/year is very reasonable, and a great value for all the features I get. Heck, I spend more than that in gas in just one full day of caching

You might have an idea of what it costs to run a car, but no idea what it costs to run a website.

 

Comparing what it costs to run a website to your car just shows that. Spending $30 on a tank of gas doesn't mean thats what it costs to run a website.

 

Correct, it costs at least $1000 to run a website (for a year).

 

...30 dollars a year for a website that costs no more than $1000 to maintain ??!! All the real work is done by the cachers. Not by Groundspeak; all they do is keep the servers running. and they will probarbly hire somebody to do that for them. At $1000 a year. If only 1percent of at least 50000 members is premium member somebody is pocketing $15000. for doing absolutely nothing. Hm.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

:D

[+sTeamTraen]

So, the $64,000 $500 question: How would Groundspeak know when you were dead? That would require them to have way more information about me than I'm willing to give them, and more importantly, way more information than they are interested in storing and being held responsible for.

or sharing accounts?

the how i don't know but i know it can be done. if porn companies know when you are sharing an account with people ( and thus lock the account) I am reasonably sure ground speak can do it also.

I will bow to your superior knowledge of how porn companies operate.

[+Chrysalides]

I will bow to your (releasethedog's) superior knowledge of how porn companies operate.

I think serious research into this field of knowledge is essential for the long term well being of geocaching. Would anyone like to sponsor my study?

[+eagsc7]

So then lets take some numbers and kill this topic with Basic math.

 

NOTE: Lifetime 1 and 2 are different examples

 

Premium Membership: $30/yr

Lifetime1 Membership: $1000

Lifetime2 Membership: $1500

 

A Lifetime1 Membership will ONLY be cheaper AFTER 34 Years, and a Lifetime2 Membership would be cheaper after 50 Years.

 

In other words, Either of these examples would only be cheaper Over 30 YEARS from now.

 

What will you be doing in 2040?

 

The Steaks

[+WRASTRO]

So then lets take some numbers and kill this topic with Basic math.

 

NOTE: Lifetime 1 and 2 are different examples

 

Premium Membership: $30/yr

Lifetime1 Membership: $1000

Lifetime2 Membership: $1500

 

A Lifetime1 Membership will ONLY be cheaper AFTER 34 Years, and a Lifetime2 Membership would be cheaper after 50 Years.

 

In other words, Either of these examples would only be cheaper Over 30 YEARS from now.

 

What will you be doing in 2040?

 

The Steaks

Hanging out in the forums!

[+sTeamTraen]

So then lets take some numbers and kill this topic with Basic math.

 

Premium Membership: $30/yr

Lifetime1 Membership: $1000

Lifetime2 Membership: $1500

 

A Lifetime1 Membership will ONLY be cheaper AFTER 34 Years, and a Lifetime2 Membership would be cheaper after 50 Years.

Well yes, if lifetime membership cost $1000 or $1500 (and in fact it would take longer, since there's all that Net Present Value stuff too). But as far as I can tell, you just invented those numbers, so this would appear to be circular reasoning.

 

I've indicated above what I think is probably wrong with lifetime (Premium) membership, and clearly the cost would be a critical item to establish (I can see all the retired cachers asking for a lower rate than the high school students), but if it were to be set at, say, $200 then price might barely be a factor.

 

What might be possible would be a promotion whereby if you renew for two years, it costs say $55 instead of $60. Or, renew for 3 years, still costs $90 but you get a limited-edition special coin, or a signed photo of Signal.

[+Team Cotati]

So if everyone bought a lifetime membership now, and better cache listing sites come along and gc is forced to reduce their price to a more realistic (but still profitable) level of lets say $1/month or $12/year, how many of you will be upset because you overpaid for your lifetime membership and want a refund?

 

Its a realistic question you should answer before even thinking about any lifetime membership.

 

You failed to mention the cost of your lifetime membership in geocaching.com.

 

I can tell you though, depending upon your price proposal, and my personal assessment of the likelihood of any entity giving serious challenge to Groundspeak..........I'd do it in a heart beat.

Thats my point, it doesn't matter where gc sets the "lifetime" price, when they are forced to reduce their rates for competition or other reasons, everyone will be screaming because they overpaid for the lifetime rate.

 

There's no serious competition and prospects are that there will be none. I do not know what "other reasons" you have in mind but in my opinion, they, whatever they might be, are even less likely to occur.

 

Yes, anything is possible but not anything is likely. For Groundspeak to be making business plans based upon some as yet undefined competitive challenge would rather silly.

 

Now do not get me wrong, I in fact do hold the view that competition in most any business venture is a good thing, especially for the consumer. However in the case of the online geocaching game, I do not foresee any such competition looming on the horizon.

 

If you do, could you please share? Thanks.