alternate location method

[+ras_oscar]

Hi there. I'm not a noob, so please give this question proper consideration... I have been to a certain cache 3 times now. Each time the GPSr keeps me circling between 3 locations arranged in rooughly a triangle with 30 feet sides. Obviously some sort of interference. Question... I can locate GZ on google earth and zoom in to see 2 landmarks 90 degrees apart. Can I reliably pull 2 magnetic bearings between the landmarks and GZ and get closer? Has anybody tried this?

[+briansnat]

WIth 3 points 30 feet apart It sounds like you may already be at GZ as far as your GPS is concerned.

 

Your method may work, but also consider that the cache could be outside the triangle. I think though that if you're as close as you appear to be it's time to forget about GPS and coordinates and use the head and eyes.

Edited October 11, 2009 by briansnat

[+Crafty Turtle]

Yeah, it sounds like that's about as close as a handheld GPS is going to get you. There are ways around this, but they are costly and only usually used by businesses such as open-cut mining, precision between-the-rows farming, etc.

 

Yes there are other methods of more accurately getting to the true coordinates. Surveyors have been doing it for centuries. Chains, ranging poles, compasses, theodelites, laser sights, etc.

 

Remember the person who hid the cache and posted the coordinates also used a similar handheld GPS. Their reading will differ just as much as yours will. It's a bit like chinese whispers. Their posted coords will be a bit off the actual cache too. Don't try to get more accuracy out of something that is itself only within 30 feet. It's not a dartboard, it's a planet.

 

(That was probably a bad analogy - the bullseye of a dartboard would be more like saying "Yup, I'm in Australia! 50 points!")

[+Vater_Araignee]

For many caches of this type, the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location. Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 km) away from the true cache location.

[+keehotee]

For many caches of this type, the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location. Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 km) away from the true cache location.

 

???

[+briansnat]

For many caches of this type, the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location. Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 km) away from the true cache location.

 

???

 

I could be wrong but I don't think the OP was referring to a puzzle cache. It seems to me that he was referring to the old drunken bee dance and was trying to pinpoint the cache using the 3 spots his GPS

showed to be ground zero at one point or another.

[+ecanderson]

Hi there. I'm not a noob, so please give this question proper consideration... I have been to a certain cache 3 times now. Each time the GPSr keeps me circling between 3 locations arranged in rooughly a triangle with 30 feet sides. Obviously some sort of interference. Question... I can locate GZ on google earth and zoom in to see 2 landmarks 90 degrees apart. Can I reliably pull 2 magnetic bearings between the landmarks and GZ and get closer? Has anybody tried this?

Yes, such techniques sometimes work. I've been VERY happy to have had the mag compass in my Summit HC on several occasions. Backing off as much as 50' outside of any interference (bridge, canyon wall, trees, whatever) from several positions often makes triangulation possible.

 

Whether it will work for you in this instance, however, is going to depend a great deal upon whether the CO had the same problems with an unsettled GPSr as you're having, and whether any additional attempt was made to improve the coordinates with other than the usual "mark it here" technique. It would be interesting for you to describe the site in a little more detail - what do you see around that might be causing interference and reflections that would throw off your GPSr? Power lines? Trees? Big man-made structures? Do you have WAAS enabled on your GPSr? Is the CO an experienced cacher or a relative newcomer? If you'd post the GC code, it would be possible for us to take a peek around.

 

If the CO did have the same problems and just "marked" the location, you're on your own. Start from the center of the triangle you describe, work away from the center from there, and keep your eyes open. You don't say what the container size is or whether there is any other helpful information. Again, the GC might help us point you in a useful direction (or not).

[+ras_oscar]

1. micro in the woods.

 

2. Plain old cache not a mystery/puzzle

 

3. Has been found within the past 30 days, several previous finders said it was "Laying in the open" so its not attached to anything such as fish line, etc.

 

4. GC1B6JN

 

5. NOT looking for a hint from previous finders: looking for alternate zero methods where the GPS bounces around. In most cases its in the middle of the woods, so there are no landmarks to shoot from. In this case I have 2 light pole clearly shown in the satelite view. One to the North, one to the East. Also have a reliable liquid filled lensatic compass with a sight wire and a magnifying eyepiece.

Edited October 12, 2009 by ras_oscar

[+fegan]

3. Has been found within the past 30 days, several previous finders said it was "Laying in the open" so its not attached to anything such as fish line, etc.

That's a brave/risky assumption on your part. Just because it was previously found laying in the open doesn't mean it has no tether.

 

I've learned that you can't make assumptions about how something is hidden, or camo'd. You never know where you'll find it, or what it looks like, unless the owner gives you a spoiler hint.

[+fegan]

Hi there. I'm not a noob, so please give this question proper consideration... I have been to a certain cache 3 times now. Each time the GPSr keeps me circling between 3 locations arranged in rooughly a triangle with 30 feet sides. Obviously some sort of interference. Question... I can locate GZ on google earth and zoom in to see 2 landmarks 90 degrees apart. Can I reliably pull 2 magnetic bearings between the landmarks and GZ and get closer? Has anybody tried this?

I agree with briansnat on this one. If you have it narrowed down to a trianglular area 30 feet on each side...it's time to put the GPS away and use your geosense.

 

It's very rare for your GPS to read 0 feet when you actually find the geocache. Sure, there have been times mine has read less than 5 feet...but there have also been plenty of times it has read 25, 50, even 75 feet.

[+ras_oscar]

Yeah, I know... put away the GPS and start looking. Unfortunately its a heavily wooded area with geotrails everywhere.

[+ecanderson]

Yeah, I know... put away the GPS and start looking. Unfortunately its a heavily wooded area with geotrails everywhere.

Yeah - I can see that now that I have a satellite view. Thanks for the GC code. Makes it possible for us to take a bird's eye view of your problem.

 

In reading the description, I see that the owner was working with 17' on his GPSr. Ouch. Well, that doesn't bode well for landing on it easily. But IF his coordinates actually are really good, I'd be inclined to stand out on the grassy area next to the road to the NNW of the cache and try to get a fix on a specific direction into the woods there. That spot at the tree line would take you out about 50' from posted GZ - not too far for the mag compass to get useless, but far enough to help. Then move forward as close to 17 stout paces as you can and start your search there.

 

Honestly - if you wait a couple of weeks, all of those leaves will be gone, and I'll bet you start to see better accuracy on your own GPSr at a minimum. Might help. The CO said that the trees hadn't leafed out yet when he placed the cache, so there is some hope that his numbers are good. He did say that he ran the averages for 5 minutes, and that can help, too.

 

On the extra information side...

Tree hides in the woods can just be a bugger sometimes. One thing -- you might want to pay attention to the name of the cache. You never know when it might actually provide useful information. And based upon the logs, it sounds to me like it keeps falling out of a tree onto the ground. Nearly every recent cacher has made note of this or something like it. Just an observation.

[+Walts Hunting]

A micro in the woods. The best response is two margaritas and the Ignor button. You must have better things to do.

[+Dnalsi]

A micro in the woods. The best response is two margaritas and the Ignor button. You must have better things to do.

 

Good advice!

There are over 500 non micro traditional / virtual / letterbox / earth caches within a 23 mile radius of that cache ( I excluded the multi and mystery as you seem to avoid them like me )

 

If you must find it, you need to expand your search radius. The original finders reported the coords about 40 ft off.

If you are searching a 30 ft triangle, range out a bit.

 

As to your original question, can't help you there.

Looks like it has not been found since July 23 ?

Maybe it's just gone?

 

Oh yeah...it IS ok to log a DNF you know, especially if you've been there 3 X

Edited October 12, 2009 by Dnalsi

[+Dnalsi]

In this case I have 2 light pole clearly shown in the satelite view. One to the North, one to the East. Also have a reliable liquid filled lensatic compass with a sight wire and a magnifying eyepiece.

 

I missed this the first time.

If I understand correctly, you want to:

Use the satellite map with the cache location and the light poles to triangulate the cache location.

At the location, use the lensatic compass to shoot an azimuth to the light poles, thus pinpointing the location of the cache.

It might work, IF the satellite location of the cache is exactly spot on. They often are not.

 

Photo Example:

The tiny yellow square to the left (West) is the actual cache location, NOT where my smiley is shown. It is off by about 100 ft .

 

 

I'd find the best GZ with your GPSr, and start looking about 40 ft South of there.

Good luck!

[PastorJon]

I had a similar problem for a local cache about a mile from my house. It was in a heavily wooded area, covered with game trails and geotrails. Once I got into the woods, my Nuvi (not the best accuracy under cover) simply couldn't get me there. I thought I'd find a GZ, and it'd jump and send me somewhere else.

 

Finally, I went back to the trail, waited for it to settle down and get a good read, and then took a direction/distance.... and I went after the cache orienteering-style. Picked my direction, paced off 22 paces, and found the cache.

[+Vater_Araignee]

For many caches of this type, the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location. Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 km) away from the true cache location.

 

???

YEA!! My first forum glitch. I came to this thread and made a post about using google to help triangulate being a futile exorcise when the fact is the CO could have unintentional soft coords. Looks like that came from a rant about virts that I changed my mind on posting.

Now I'm gonna be compelled to reread my posts even when I'm completely positive I spelled correctly.

[+ras_oscar]

Thanks for the spirited discussion. The clarification I was looking for was the accuracy of the sattelite maps and placements of the symbols. Sounds like the next course of action is to wait until the trees loose their canopies. BTW, it doesn't show in the sattelite well, but GZ is approximately 12 feet higher than the adjoining offramp to the North, and the uphill is covered with thorns, no geotrails. I've been approaching from the park and ride lot to the south.