Am I FTF or not?

September 30, 2009

So I'm eating a sandwich at jack in the box, about to take a bite and my iPhone says I have a new email. Tap with a spare finger and see it's a new cache, just under two miles from the very chair I'm sitting in. I spit my food out onto the table, run to my car, spill root beer all over my seats and race down there avoiding collisions with everything. Get to the GZ, slam my brakes and spill whats left of my root beer all over the console and jump out. No other people around, walk a few feet, find the cache, dump everything out until I can find the log book. Open it up expecting a blank page, but wait, there is already a signature. Darnit! Wait a second, today is the 30th, this one was signed on the 27th, three days ago, the day it was hidden. Today is obviously the 30th, wow, that's not very fair.

So yeah, what do you guys think. Obviously the CO either told someone about the cache before it was published or somehow someone saw them place it there and then went to sign it. I kind of think I should be able to "claim" the FTF. I mean, really, it's not a big deal, but it's a small trophy of sorts to get those FTF's

PS the story above is mostly made up(the part about my driving), but the signature from three days ago is true

5.3k · September 30, 2009

I mean, really, it's not a big deal...

That sums it up pretty well.

19k · September 30, 2009

So I'm eating a sandwich at jack in the box, about to take a bite and my iPhone says I have a new email. Tap with a spare finger and see it's a new cache, just under two miles from the very chair I'm sitting in. I spit my food out onto the table, run to my car, spill root beer all over my seats and race down there avoiding collisions with everything. Get to the GZ, slam my brakes and spill whats left of my root beer all over the console and jump out. No other people around, walk a few feet, find the cache, dump everything out until I can find the log book. Open it up expecting a blank page, but wait, there is already a signature. Darnit! Wait a second, today is the 30th, this one was signed on the 27th, three days ago, the day it was hidden. Today is obviously the 30th, wow, that's not very fair.

So yeah, what do you guys think. Obviously the CO either told someone about the cache before it was published or somehow someone saw them place it there and then went to sign it. I kind of think I should be able to "claim" the FTF. I mean, really, it's not a big deal, but it's a small trophy of sorts to get those FTF's

PS the story above is mostly made up(the part about my driving), but the signature from three days ago is true

:drama: ...guess its my turn to bring the popcorn.

18.9k · September 30, 2009

FTF is the first person to locate the cache after it was hidden - not necessarily after it was published. Only one person can ever claim FTF - the first one there. Everybody else is after that first visit. My opinion anyway......

September 30, 2009

I would say the signature you saw in the log was from a "Beta Tester" another cacher along when the cache was hidden. In my case i'd settle for a smiley instead of ftf anyday.

September 30, 2009

So when I do my caches, I could tell a friend about it, take them there and let them claim the FTF before it's even available to find by anyone else? Hmmmm, I'll remember this...

I'm more kidding than anything really. I just figured people had a little more backbone and liked to keep things exciting. Nothing exciting about racing for an FTF if there isn't a chance for it, especially when it was never logged here.

I know a ton of you aren't FTF hounds and I'm kind of on the fence about it myself. If I'm nearby, I'll race for it, if I'm in the middle of something or it's a little out of reach, I'll go out there when I can. So all the people who aren't about the race, sorry, some of us like the race, just part of the game sometimes :drama:

Edited September 30, 2009 by NWCREW

19k · September 30, 2009

So when I do my caches, I could tell a friend about it, take them there and let them claim the FTF before it's even available to find by anyone else? Hmmmm, I'll remember this...

Sure you could. But then it would be your turn to bring the popcorn.

September 30, 2009

So when I do my caches, I could tell a friend about it, take them there and let them claim the FTF before it's even available to find by anyone else? Hmmmm, I'll remember this...

Sure you could. But then it would be your turn to bring the popcorn.

I love popcorn though!

5.7k · September 30, 2009

The log for the 27th doesn't even claim it as a find - just a note for a TB drop. Probably made aware of the cache by the CO or might even have been there during placement of the cache. Given that the 27th logger isn't even claiming it as a find, I'd certainly feel free to add it to your list of "trophies".

To others: Remember, it's also considered bad form by many to claim a find on a cache if you're there with the CO when it's being placed (another thread here). That could well be what happened here.

Edited September 30, 2009 by ecanderson

September 30, 2009

Some caches are also cross-listed on other sites and could be published there first.

September 30, 2009

Wasn't there a thread about this two days ago....oh well lets just start a new one, I'll start one Friday if one hasn't been started again. :drama:

4k · September 30, 2009

There is never a FTF to claim. You either are or you aren't regardless of when it was listed and who the owner told.

Other possibilities too...

GEOCACHE SITE - PLEASE READ

Congratulations, you've found it! Intentionally or not!

What is this hidden container sitting here for? What the heck is this thing doing here with all these things in it?

It is part of a worldwide game dedicated to GPS (Global Positioning System) users, called Geocaching. The game basically involves a GPS user hiding "treasure" (this container and its contents), and publishing the exact coordinates so other GPS users can come on a "treasure hunt" to find it. The only rules are: if you take something from the geocache, you must leave something in the geocache, and you must write about your visit in the logbook. Hopefully, the person that hid this container found a good spot that is on public property and is not easily found by uninterested parties. Sometimes, a good spot turns out to be a bad spot, though.

IF YOU FOUND THIS CONTAINER BY ACCIDENT:

Great! You are welcome to join us! We ask only that you:

Is any FTF really worth spilling root beer?! You may or may not have been there first. In any instance you can still claim that it was FTF. (Fun to find.)

September 30, 2009

Wasn't there a thread about this two days ago....oh well lets just start a new one, I'll start one Friday if one hasn't been started again.

Not all of us check the site every single day and considering the search feature is a joke, I had no idea, sorry dude. Feel free to start one on friday as planned though since anyone who didnt see this one today, will see it then

2.4k · September 30, 2009

He's joking about the starting the topic on friday.

a lot of topics are perpetual repeats around here.

some people joke about that by saying things like, "wait, isn't that Tuesday's topic?" and stuff like that.

Some even come up with a supposed schedule for topics. All a joke.

The truth is, how many topics are there really?

We have to keep coming up with the same ones because people all want to know the same things, and the topic possiblities for this game are not endless anyway, so don't worry about it.

Someone else will surely bring up the same topic on Friday anyway.

Now I've forgotten which repeated topic this is...

Oh yes, of course, the first to find topic.

Recently I got notice of a cache that was published two days before. Maybe that's the one you're talking about since you're in the same neighborhood as I am. It seems the notices are not always timely.

The easiest way to clear up this question is to just ask the cache owner. Shoot them an e-mail and ask.

Keep it civil of course, and include your line about it not really being important anyway. See what they say.

I always thought the first-to-finders were nuts, but then I showed up at one to see what they were all about. Turned out to be a major social event there at ground zero. I had a nice time, and so when I find the time I'll do it again some time. Good way to meet other cachers around here. Good to be able to talk "caching" with others.

September 30, 2009

yeah, I know it was a joke, just giving him poop back :drama:

The one in question is Ivy League. It's my most recent find if you check my profile sol, right near the puyallup fair.

And yes, about half my FTFs I've met great people and have even run into one guy a couple of times now. Have never met anyone into geocaching elsewhere besides racing for FTFs.

I did send him a quick email though and will see what he has to say.

PS I did get your email but haven't had the time to reply, it was a very nice one though and I'll try to get to it tonight, sorry its taken so long

Edited September 30, 2009 by NWCREW

2.4k · September 30, 2009

yeah, I know it was a joke, just giving him poop back

The one in question is Ivy League. It's my most recent find if you check my profile sol, right near the puyallup fair.

And yes, about half my FTFs I've met great people and have even run into one guy a couple of times now. Have never met anyone into geocaching elsewhere besides racing for FTFs.

I did send him a quick email though and will see what he has to say.

PS I did get your email but haven't had the time to reply, it was a very nice one though and I'll try to get to it tonight, sorry its taken so long

Yeah, I was just looking at that one earlier.

Too busy to run out at the time. Figured me and my geo-bud would get that this weekend with others in the area.

i want to get that night cache near there soon too. (in Clark's Creek Park). Sounds fun. We've done some caching in that area, but there are tons more there to get. We haven't done a numbers run for quite a while (we usually do hike caches) but we might go for it this weekend.

Besides, there's a cache beginning with Z in the area and I still need an X and a Z cache for the alphabet challenge cache.

I don't remember which one it was that came up two days late. Usually they come out right away, but it might have been that one. I remember being confused when I looked at the cache page and two people had found it already when it just came over my phone.

Guess it happens sometimes. Go figure.

Have fun. Maybe we'll run into you sometime at a cache.

September 30, 2009

There is never a FTF to claim. You either are or you aren't regardless of when it was listed and who the owner told.

Other possibilities too...

GEOCACHE SITE - PLEASE READ

Congratulations, you've found it! Intentionally or not!

What is this hidden container sitting here for? What the heck is this thing doing here with all these things in it?

It is part of a worldwide game dedicated to GPS (Global Positioning System) users, called Geocaching. The game basically involves a GPS user hiding "treasure" (this container and its contents), and publishing the exact coordinates so other GPS users can come on a "treasure hunt" to find it. The only rules are: if you take something from the geocache, you must leave something in the geocache, and you must write about your visit in the logbook. Hopefully, the person that hid this container found a good spot that is on public property and is not easily found by uninterested parties. Sometimes, a good spot turns out to be a bad spot, though.

IF YOU FOUND THIS CONTAINER BY ACCIDENT:

Great! You are welcome to join us! We ask only that you:

Is any FTF really worth spilling root beer?! You may or may not have been there first. In any instance you can still claim that it was FTF. (Fun to find.)

Dont Joke about this, for a event held larst year there were 20 new caches hidden in our local area and these were in place a few weeks before the event. Well one of these caches had been found a week before the event and signed by a surveyor so he has FTF but has never logged onto the site.

4.2k · September 30, 2009

Just adding that there's really nothing stopping you from claiming the FTF on the cache. You could be semi-diplomatic and post a log with something like "unless the CO believes otherwise, I'm claiming this as a FTF on my records because the signature in the log predates the publication date."

I mean it's not too crazy (considering that GS doesn't really adjudicate or judicata FTF records) to imagine that your record of your FTF could co-exist with a CO's record of what he considers to be the FTF on the cache.

I guess they could potentially delete your log... but you could still count that as a FTF wherever it is that you keep a record of that. I mean, it's not like the CO can tell you to edit your profile.

September 30, 2009

Is any FTF really worth spilling root beer?!

Watch Law and Order SVU tonight, You may never chase an FTF again.

:drama:

Edited September 30, 2009 by 42at42

1.4k · September 30, 2009

I think we should have a whole separate section on the forum dedicated to the FTF Hunt. JK

ScubaSonic

Edited September 30, 2009 by Scubasonic

4k · September 30, 2009

IF YOU FOUND THIS CONTAINER BY ACCIDENT:

Dont Joke about this,

I wasn't joking.

I think we should have a whole separate section on the forum dedicated to the FTF Hunt. JK

ScubaSonic

I think that is a great idea. (Again, I'm not joking. :drama: )

September 30, 2009

All FTFs are worth spilling root beer. Which was a joke in the intial post of this thread, hehe.

But I don't think this FTF thread has anything to do with the one you bumped scubasonic. I know there are people who think FTF hounds are crazy or annoying and there are those are FTF hounds themselves. I didn't come here to debate anything about that. I just wanted to know how people felt about a cache being published and already having signatures in the log. To me, takes a little bit of the fun out of it, but eh, I'll get over it and I'll have my chance for more FTF's later on I'm sure :drama:

4k · September 30, 2009

I had a cache published about two weeks ago. It a funny story, but all true.

The cacher who logged the FTF didn't actually didn't find it.

The cacher who logged the first DNF actually found it.

:drama: Neither of them knew it at the time and no one was trying to deceive.

There was actually a cache within probably 15' of my cache. I haven't seen it but I was told it was new with a fresh log in it. They signed it first so they had no idea that it wasn't my newly published cache.

So, people can stumble upon a cache before it is listed on the site. They could be cachers, or they could be people who go around looking in holes in trees. LoL.

I'm not a FTF hound so I don't really care. But... If I was and the date on the log preceded the date the cache was published I would celebrate a victory quietly in my own head.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Knight2000

September 30, 2009

Where do I log an offical FTF on the site?....

hehehe

6.7k · September 30, 2009

I have actually found a yet to be published cache. I had no prior knowledge of it being there. I went out with the intention of hiding a new cache. It seems like the CO and I think alike. As I was scrounging cove for my cache I uncovered his. I claimed the FTF on a cache that had not yet been published.

9.3k · September 30, 2009

This one was signed on the 27th, three days ago, the day it was hidden. Today is obviously the 30th, wow, that's not very fair.

Maybe I'm not using the same definition of "fair" that you are?

This sounds a lot more like bruised entitlement than an issue of equity. :drama:

Nothing exciting about racing for an FTF if there isn't a chance for it

But you didn't know the FTF was already claimed until you experienced all the excitement any cacher could possibly ask for. You had arrived, tires screeching, your clothes dripping with root beer. You made it to ground zero ahead of anyone in sight. You found the cache, and opened the logbook with a heart full of hope. The only thing different is the so called "reward" of claiming FTF on the cache. All the excitement was still yours, and can't be taken away.

Feel free to start one on Friday as planned though

Sorry Brother. Friday is "I Hate Micros" day.

Perhaps we could free up some time on Sunday?

Eh, I'll get over it

There is much wisdom in that attitude!

September 30, 2009

All FTFs are worth spilling root beer. Which was a joke in the intial post of this thread, hehe.

But I don't think this FTF thread has anything to do with the one you bumped scubasonic. I know there are people who think FTF hounds are crazy or annoying and there are those are FTF hounds themselves. I didn't come here to debate anything about that. I just wanted to know how people felt about a cache being published and already having signatures in the log. To me, takes a little bit of the fun out of it, but eh, I'll get over it and I'll have my chance for more FTF's later on I'm sure

I did chase FTF's until it seemed like too many people has inside information. It is not worth my root beer, if someone was told about the cache the day before.

Now I stay clear of the feuding and racing. It can get rather ugly.

I enjoy going for a hike and finding a log that has names in it.

October 1, 2009

Yeah, I'm all about the long hikes and the views more than anything. I just don't have the money for gas since I seem to be buying a ton of root beer lately, hmmmmm

I do have a couple nice hikes planned though. Went out for the APE cache last week, grabbed that, saw a peak across the valley double the height of the APE cache and found out there is a cache at the top and one halfway up, now that's my style!

October 1, 2009

Not all caches listed on this site have an available FTF after listing here. Some may have been listed elsewhere prior to being listed here. There are other cache listing sites that may have listed it first.

There are caches that have been placed by some chambers of commerce, park systems, boy scout troops, etc... that may all have been used for some period of time prior to listing here, so not all caches listed here are going to be available for an FTF.

Anyone who races out for the FTF takes their chances as to whether an FTF is going to be available or not. It's all part of the FTF game. If anther cacher had made it there 5 minutes before you would the situation be any different? The results would be the same, someone signed the log before you.

As Clan Riffster pointed out, you had the fun of racing out to the cache site and to the cache, so you got fun and excitement from the cache, FTF or not.

I look for FTFs occasionally but if there's a signature on the log when I get there, it doesn't spoil my fun or make me feel like I have been slighted in some way, even if the FTFer was a beta tester, a muggle that just found the cache, or an entire troop of boy scouts.

You play the FTF game and you takes your chances! :drama:

October 1, 2009

I'm not really bummed about it, just a question really...

I got my smiley, got to see a cool rock wall covered in ivy, it's all good

I did email the CO and while they never got back to me, I did check the cache page today and it says I'm the official FTF. So who knows, I ain't sweating it, whatever. I still need to buy some interior cleaner for that darn root beer spill, lol, jk :lol:

have a good day everyone. Go find some caches and then go hide one this weekend.

3.6k · October 1, 2009

Technically, there can be only 1 first to find, and that's the person who finds it first after being hidden, but I've seen people log them as FTF after publishing, FTF after the owner replaced the full log book, FTF in the dark, FTF in the rain...and so on.

I'm not sure if those are scored though and if they count as 7 points, 3 points or 2 points. :lol:

38.2k · October 1, 2009

Sounds like you were second to find to me

October 1, 2009

If it were me, I'd quietly consider it as an FTF for my own records.

In my neck of the woods the race starts when published.

However I wouldn't get too worked up if a beta tester considered themselves FTF too.

October 1, 2009

sounds like everyone has their own opinion on this and there isn't any rules on it. If all of you say this or that, ain't no thing. Co said I got the FTF, so be it, if he said I was STF, so be it. Like I've said a few times in this thread alone, I ain't sweatin' it, just trying to get a gauge on how people felt about the original issue, not FTF hounds in general, but thanks for that commentary as well :lol:

5.7k · October 1, 2009

Sounds like you were second to find to me

Naw - looking at the cache page (absolutely necessary to understand what may have happened here), I'd say the OP was "Second to Sign the Log", but still the FTF.

The first person to log a gc.com entry made a point of NOT logging it a find, instead logging the visit with a note with a bug drop. That would indicate to me an intent NOT to claim a "find". I'd guess he was there with the CO when placed, and left a bug to start things off. Gotta give the first guy credit for his approach if that's what happened. Could be he was being honest in that while he'd signed the log first in the course of the bug drop, there was no "find" involved.

If I were along to observe and drop a bug when a CO placed a cache (hasn't happened yet), that's probably the way I'd handle it, too. The next guy would be the FTF.

Edited October 1, 2009 by ecanderson

October 1, 2009

Well, you may not have a FTF, but at least you didn't have to eat Jack-in-the-Box food, so you came out ahead anyway.

6.5k · October 1, 2009

Yes, you were FTF. Congratulations.

Feel better now? :lol:

October 1, 2009

Something similar happened at a cache near my house. A cache was published and when my friend Pole Position went after the FTF, he found that the log book had already been signed! The really odd thing, though, was that the signature had been crossed out. AND the signature belonged to a cacher who was out of town and didn't get back until a couple of days later! Needless to say, it is all very odd. :lol:

3.6k · October 1, 2009

Maybe someone was going to sign in their friend and realized they were out of town and said, "Whoops, don't want to do that and get caught?"

October 1, 2009

Yes, you were FTF. Congratulations.

Feel better now?

YES! But I'm out of popcorn now...

6.5k · October 1, 2009

I like this guy; he get it in here. Someone pass him some more popcorn. :lol:

4k · October 1, 2009

Since a regular FTF is 100 points this sounds like it only qualifies you for 65 points due to some uncertainty. This scenario is discussed in the back of the rule book albeit a small [virtually hidden] paragraph. Just make sure you submit the appropriate form to receive the credit or it may be dismissed and you could only receive the normal 10 points.

10.1k · October 1, 2009

Just adding that there's really nothing stopping you from claiming the FTF on the cache. You could be semi-diplomatic and post a log with something like "unless the CO believes otherwise, I'm claiming this as a FTF on my records because the signature in the log predates the publication date."

I mean it's not too crazy (considering that GS doesn't really adjudicate or judicata FTF records) to imagine that your record of your FTF could co-exist with a CO's record of what he considers to be the FTF on the cache.

I guess they could potentially delete your log... but you could still count that as a FTF wherever it is that you keep a record of that. I mean, it's not like the CO can tell you to edit your profile.

Nope He's not FTF. Someone else signed the log before him. Putting the onus on the cache owner is anything but diplomatic. (Usually found as: Couldn't reach the container, so you can delete my log if you want to...)

Why pretend to be FTF when he isn't? It seems fairly simple.

October 1, 2009

hey now, wimseyguy said I got the FTF and he seems like a good guy, so I'm going with him, so let this drop really fast before it's changed...

2.4k · October 1, 2009

If someone just dropped a bug, that is not a find.

In order to FIND it you've got to not know where it is.

If the person who wrote the note was with the Cache owner when they hid it, then they could not FIND it.

If someone helps place the cache, that is not the same as finding it.

In order to FIND it you've got to not know where it is. (do I hear an echo in here?)

(.....here, give me some of that stuff..... :lol: )

October 2, 2009

I have revisited some caches, in order to drop a bug, retrieve a bug, or simply because I was nearby. I logged my revisits in the logbook, and on the site. While the site allows me to log them as notes, in the logbook all logs are equal. I write -Revisit- or -Maintenance visit- in the logbook in these cases, but not everyone does this.

It's possible that the first logger considers himself co-hider, logged as a note online, and logged in the physical logbook too. If this is the case, he could (should) have written -co-hider- or -here with the owner- or some other key words marking that his log is not a found it log.

I'm a FTF hounf, and I respect FTFs. If I will ever go with a hider and beta test his cache, I will note this on "page zero", the page containing the cache name, coordinates, date of placement, hider's name, and co-hider / beta tester's name in this case.

Also, nothing says the hider should leave the first page blank. If you find a logbook containing: "Placed this cache along my favorite hiking trail. Dropped bug. Signed, The Hider", would you consider yourself FTF or STF?

3.6k · October 2, 2009

All this popcorn talk is making me hungry, but I ate my lunch around 10 a.m. today and still have a few hours before I can get to more food.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Skippermark

October 2, 2009

Nope He's not FTF. Someone else signed the log before him.

You're confusing signing the log-book with finding. The person who signed could have accompanied the hider while placing, or even signed the book before the owner went to place the cache - if so, they didn't really find it. This isn't so uncommon for caches that are signed days before being published.

October 2, 2009

Maybe someone was going to sign in their friend and realized they were out of town and said, "Whoops, don't want to do that and get caught?"

Highly unlikely. The user (whom I choose to leave unnamed) is know in these parts for getting the FTF almost every time. So that makes FTFs around here hard to come by, meaning that everyone wants to beat that user to the FTF. When he got back, even he was surprised and mystified as to the crossed-out name. BTW, Pole Position was given credit for the FTF.

4.2k · October 2, 2009

Just adding that there's really nothing stopping you from claiming the FTF on the cache. You could be semi-diplomatic and post a log with something like "unless the CO believes otherwise, I'm claiming this as a FTF on my records because the signature in the log predates the publication date."

I mean it's not too crazy (considering that GS doesn't really adjudicate or judicata FTF records) to imagine that your record of your FTF could co-exist with a CO's record of what he considers to be the FTF on the cache.

I guess they could potentially delete your log... but you could still count that as a FTF wherever it is that you keep a record of that. I mean, it's not like the CO can tell you to edit your profile.

Nope He's not FTF. Someone else signed the log before him. Putting the onus on the cache owner is anything but diplomatic. (Usually found as: Couldn't reach the container, so you can delete my log if you want to...)

Why pretend to be FTF when he isn't? It seems fairly simple.

Nope he is the FTF. Both the cache owner and the cache finder agree.

Am I FTF or not?

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