SPOT II

September 29, 2009

As mentioned briefly in in another post, the topic of the soon to be released SPOT II, GPS, personal tracking device was of interest to me, or more importantly my wife because of some of my recreational behavior. My local REI just received a few, and I picked one up. Here are my first impressions of this device, which although not really a geocaching device, may be of interest to those who’s caching activities take them far from the beaten path, often times alone. SPOT for those unfamiliar with the device is a GPS receiver that doesn't provide navigational information, but instead uses a satellite phone network to send all is well signals, position data for tracking at 10 minute intervals you contacts can access through google maps, or that will send a 911 signal to the companies call center where they are supposed to notify authorities that you're in trouble. I find it of interest for use in areas where cell phones don't work.

First, the new device is quite a bit smaller than the older SPOT. It’s about the length and thickness of an etrex, but a little wider. The unit takes 3 AAA batteries, under a O-ring sealed door that uses two screw type fasteners to secure. The screws are a little awkward to use on my unit sometimes trying to come out of the lid as well as the thread inserts, and aren’t the easiest to use, but you don’t change batteries that much so it shouldn’t be a problem. Well have to see what I think of this over time.

The buttons on the unit flash with different lights, so you know when the unit is turned on or if it‘s sending messages, receiving GPS signals etc.. I’ve only observed the original spot in use, having never owned one, but from what I did see, the new unit gives much easier to decipher status information..

Most important though, the GPS receiver on the old type spot receiver was fairly low sensitivity and slow to lock. The new unit seems to have a competent modern receiver that locks on quite quickly, and the unit so far has been very reliable at sending my signals out. Having let the unit get a good GPS lock yesterday, I find today it will power up, lock on, and send an all is well message in under 4 minutes from inside my house. It will be a few days before I can play with the tracking feature in hiking type conditions, but so far the unit seems fairly impressive.

September 29, 2009

I've got one of the original ones and am looking forward to reading your review of this new model after giving it some outdoor testing. I received an E-Mail from the makers of Spot saying in November they'll be contacting previous users with a discount for upgrading so I may upgrade at that time. So therefore your review of the new unit should be very helpful in helping me decide whether to spend some more of my hard earned money.

September 29, 2009

I agree that spot is a nice to have... However for me (and that's my opinion after personal research) a PLB is much more robust for true emergency notification. I hike 99% of the time alone - and a lot of my hikes are off trail in remote areas. I carry a PLB all the time (and would be less comfortable carrying a SPOT).

September 29, 2009

I agree that spot is a nice to have... However for me (and that's my opinion after personal research) a PLB is much more robust for true emergency notification. I hike 99% of the time alone - and a lot of my hikes are off trail in remote areas. I carry a PLB all the time (and would be less comfortable carrying a SPOT).

Hi. I'm just curious what's a PLB? TIA

September 29, 2009

Wish I knew how to delete a post.

Edited September 29, 2009 by LinXG

September 29, 2009

PLB stands for Personal Locator Beacon.

If you set one off it won't be your cousin that comes looking for you.

Edited September 29, 2009 by LinXG

September 29, 2009

PLB stands for Personal Locator Beacon.

If you set one off it won't be your cousin that comes looking for you.

I see. Thanks for the education. Happy caching!

1k · September 29, 2009

I found this one at REI, PLB.

Looks interesting.

9.5k · September 29, 2009

PLB stands for Personal Locator Beacon.

If you set one off it won't be your cousin that comes looking for you.

I see. Thanks for the education. Happy caching!

Don't test it or accidentally set it off. The response is immediate, irrevocable and can be very expensive to the pocketbook.

September 29, 2009

I found this one at REI, PLB.

Looks interesting.

I was comparing the PLB and the SpotII at REI. Is a call to 911 as effective as the PLB help warning?

If so, it looks like the difference between them is the cost of the subscription.

2.6k · September 29, 2009

The unit takes 3 AAA batteries, under a O-ring sealed door that uses two screw type fasteners to secure.

Does it come with batteries, and if so, what type?

Thanks for posting this BTW. Maybe you can show us some tracking results?

9.5k · September 29, 2009

I found this one at REI, PLB.

Looks interesting.

I was comparing the PLB and the SpotII at REI. Is a call to 911 as effective as the PLB help warning?

If so, it looks like the difference between them is the cost of the subscription.

The 911 call may or may not get out and does not perform the same function as the PLB. It depends upon the plan you subscribe to on the help you receive. You will need to go to http://www.findmespot.com to figure out the annual plan that fits you best. It does not perform the same function as the PLB as noted below and calls are made first to ensure a false alert has not occured this can be a good or bad thing depending on your personal situation.

For PLBs, this was gleaned from this site.

The PLB transmits on two frequencies. A digital alert on 406 MHz is picked up by low earth orbiting (LEO) satellites that can determine a location using doppler shift technology. The initial alert is received within minutes in many areas of the world via geostationary satellites, which for the most part cover from 70° North to 70° South latitudes. Location information within three miles and often much better can be determined by LEO satellite passes, taking anywhere from a few minutes to a maximum of an hour and 30 minutes. Within the continental U.S., most users can expect their location will be determined within 30 minutes.

In addition, a traditional 121.5 MHz homing signal serves to guide rescuers to the precise spot using existing homing gear used by most SAR services. Some PLB models incorporate a GPS chip or can be hooked up to a regular GPS receiver to provide location to within a couple hundred feet, providing an accurate alert within a few minutes and almost instant deployment of SAR resources. (This last part can shave minutes off of locating you when time is critical.)

forgot to add:

Personal Locator Beacons use the same COSPAS-SARSAT satellite notification system as their bigger brothers. Each PLB must be registered, at no cost, with NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) who maintain the database for 406 MHz emergency beacons in the U.S. Each PLB has a unique digital code, so search and rescue will be able to immediately know who owns the beacon.

-=-=

Don't get me wrong, I'm intensely interested in the SPOT locator. I think it provides a valuable servivce if it can be relied upon. My perception is if you have one and a message doesn't reliably get out to assure or alert your interested party, then it can be worse than not having one.

Edited September 29, 2009 by TotemLake

September 29, 2009

The unit takes 3 AAA batteries, under a O-ring sealed door that uses two screw type fasteners to secure.

Does it come with batteries, and if so, what type?

Thanks for posting this BTW. Maybe you can show us some tracking results?

The unit came with 3 AAA Energizer Lithium disposables, with Lithium being recommended in the instructions. It also came with a case that can be cliped on with an included carabiner, or worn on your arm with an included arm band. Time will tell how long they last in tracking mode, and various other use patterns.

I'll try to use the tracking feature and report my findings as soon as possible. I can easily do in the car, and urban areas, it's going to be a little difficult sneaking a back country trip in for maybe three weeks or so though.

When I was at REI, they had a non GPS version of a PLB for $300, which is cheaper than a spot when you figure out the total cost for a couple years. I got the spot though because I mostly wanted something for non "Call out the everyone" sorts of emergencies, and to let people know roughly where I am since I wing it so much. PLB's are higher power transmitters, and should work well, but you can't really test them. So far, the SPOT seems to connect well, so I would expect a hgh probability that it would work in an emergency. Mostly though, I just want something to let people know roughly where I am, and to signal I'm okay, or stuck, but non 911 sort of trouble, friends or family please come and get me....

Regarding SPOT subscription price, $100 per year for basic service, an extra fifty for the tracking feature, and I paid 8 dollars for rescue insurance, which I have no idea if I need or not, but figured it was worth the maybe.

I'll try to provide better details over the next few days.

September 29, 2009

Would like to see the SPOT II compared to McMurdo Fast Find PLB that is also sold at REI.

6.4k · September 29, 2009

Would like to see the SPOT II compared to McMurdo Fast Find PLB that is also sold at REI.

A PLB is a totally different device with a different purpose than the SPOT. If you need a PLB, get a PLB. The SPOt is basically a tracking device.

September 29, 2009

"........or that will send a 911 signal to the companies call center where they are supposed to notify authorities that you're in trouble."

I think a lot of people look at the SPOT as a rescue aid, when they're in serious trouble; same as the FastFind.

6.4k · September 29, 2009

It is a rescue aid, but it is not anywhere near the same as a PLB and that is reflected in the price.

September 30, 2009

It is a rescue aid, but it is not anywhere near the same as a PLB and that is reflected in the price.

OK, I do terribly bad reading between the lines and really need things to be spelled out pretty clearly for me so bear with me please. Am I correct in understanding you to be kind of saying that maybe the Spot is not as good as a PLB? I'm not trying to argue since I have no idea. I've got a Spot and was planning on upgrading to the Spot II in November so all this discussion is good info for me. Thank you for any clarification you can give me!

September 30, 2009

http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=113

6.4k · September 30, 2009

A PLB, uses a continuous radio transmitter on a special dedicated emergency frequency. This frequency is monitored everywhere in the world by a special satellite network. Emergency responders not only get your location, but can track you directly via the radio signal. It is a special and dedicated system solely for the purpose of emergency aid and response. It does not require GPS at all to work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distress_radiobeacon

The SPOT transmits a text message via the Globalstar satellite phone network. Someone at SPOT headquarters receives the message and calls 911. It should work OK, but it requires that the satellite phone system receives the text burst (it does send them on a regular basis). The satellite phone network they use is not the greatest and does not have the best coverage, so missed text messages are possible. It also relies on the SPOT HQ people as apposed to a dedicated emergency response system.

September 30, 2009

It is a rescue aid, but it is not anywhere near the same as a PLB and that is reflected in the price.

OK, I do terribly bad reading between the lines and really need things to be spelled out pretty clearly for me so bear with me please. Am I correct in understanding you to be kind of saying that maybe the Spot is not as good as a PLB? I'm not trying to argue since I have no idea. I've got a Spot and was planning on upgrading to the Spot II in November so all this discussion is good info for me. Thank you for any clarification you can give me!

I don't know that the data is really there yet to say one is definitely better. The ELB/PLB system has been around for years, and recently upgraded in regards to frequency use and the addition of PLB's. It has primarily been used by ships and aircraft until fairly recently. Some issues with PLB's, if you don't have a PLB with GPS, it can take a couple hours for the system to get your rough location, then the local search and rescue guys have to locate your exact location with short range equipment. Regarding the call centers, with a PLB it's a government sponsored multi country consortium, with the SPOT it's a private business that you pay a subscription fee to to provide either emergency response and automated all is well messages, or that and tracking via google maps.

As for who rescues you, it will almost certainly be the same people either way. With a PLB, you still register the unit and provide contact info, and the emergency centers will first try to contact you to verify false alarms etc. Then they call local emergency services and provide the information that and emergency beacon has gone off, and any location data, and registration data that they may have.

One thing that probably gives SPOT users a bit of concern is the way the Okay and tracking signals work. If the spot unit doesn't have a good GPS fix, it doesn't send the signal, expect for the 911 signal. The GPS unit in the older unit was older tech, much like the original etrex series, and often had GPS lock issues. With the new spot, I've so far found driving around, the tracking messages have gone out every ten minutes within just a few seconds. I've also found it will send out the "I'm Okay" signal, even if I power it up in my basement, which is an area that so far my PN-40 has never been able to power up in and get a position lock in. The spot also sent out the e-mail message within two minutes of my turning it on, albeit with a position error of almost 100 feet. (It showed me in the next door neighbors back yard)

As I figure out how to share my maps, and travel places other than from home to work and back I'll post examples of how it tracks.

2.6k · September 30, 2009

http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=113

As before, if your subscription lapses or the computer loses you, they won’t pass along your distress alert or messages. No money, or record of money, no rescue. I still have a serious issue with this policy.

Is this true? That shocks me. Can you imagine the lawsuits? I thought I had read the opposite soon after the original SPOT came out. Does anyone know?

October 24, 2009

Sorry to have been so long in adding info to this post, but life has been busy lately. I haven't taken the spotII deep into the woods lately, hunting season and all I avoid doing that this time of year. I have played with it a fair bit though, under a wide variety of areas.

One capability of the unit is to send out "I'm Okay" signals. In doing this, it sends out the same message every 10 minutes for a half hour to increased the odds of the signal getting through. I've sent over 30 of these messages now, where I turn the unit on, tell it to send the check okay signal, then I turn the unit off as soon as it indicates the first message has been sent. So far, of those 30 plus signals, tow of them never got picked up and displayed on the spot message page or transmitted to those on the "Okay Signal" text message group I had set up. One of those two messages I had sent inside a two bedroom house, on the ground floor during a rainy day. On that occasion, I had to move around the house to different areas for about 15 minutes before I found a location where the GPS light finally flashed green to indicate a gps lock.(The unit only sends the Okay signal after it gets a GPS lock). The second time it didn't work, I was on a lounge chair by the covered pool of a cruise ship somewhere off the baha mexico coast north of Cabo. I had to change chairs twice to find a position where I could get a gps fix in this case. Every time I used the unit when it could get a good GPS lock without trouble, it send the okay signal without trouble.

As a result of my usage so far, I think I've developed a fairly good idea of when and where it's likely to be reliable. That's one of the good things about the spot, in that you can use it in non emergency situations and thus get an idea of how it works. With a PLB, you have a higher power oput, but only 8 compared to 48 satellites available to receive the signal. You also can't use it for non emergency situations, so you really don't know if it's probable that it will work in the situation you might find yourself in when you do decide to use it. My guess is that it's quite reliable, but this is just a blind faith belief, nothing I can see, or verify. Myself, I'm going to stick to my old thought process of being on my own, and having to rely on my own resources in an emergency, with the Spot being one possible assistance tool that may or may not work in an emergency. It does seem to work well for letting family members know where we are, which is my main objective.

9.5k · October 25, 2009

An interesting article to read and to keep in mind think before you leap. That is, do you have the skills to tackle that rough hike or did you go out because you had a PLB?

October 27, 2009

An interesting article to read and to keep in mind think before you leap. That is, do you have the skills to tackle that rough hike or did you go out because you had a PLB?

Good article, and unfortunately, more than likely quite accurate. I know in the Salt Lake City area, we have people getting lost in the nearby Wasatch mountains and calling for rescue on a regular basis. From anywhere up there, you just head down and you hit civilization, or at least a major road. From almost every ridge, you can simply look down and see the city. I would think most of them would actually manage to get back with nothing more than a good story to tell if they didn’t have the cell phone and had to do without. As someone who likes to venture out as much as possible, I also tend to encounter many in the backcountry who are having significant difficulty because of lack of wilderness knowledge, or preparation. I can imagine they probably do put a lot of load on the rescue services. Stuff as bad as described in the article regarding the Grand Canyon group though, I just can’t imagine that poor of judgment and common sense. I would think those individuals should be seat belted into their recliners, and not allowed to venture out.

Regarding the inadvertent activations of the PLB’s mentioned in the article, the Spot II does have covers over the 911 and spot assist buttons to prevent accidental activation. For my own use, I didn’t subscribe to spot assist so I have that button programmed to send out a signal to my contacts saying I’ve broken down and need assistance for when I’m venturing out into the backcountry in the truck or Polaris RZR without other vehicles along. Having rescued a couple pals in the past, I’m owed a come and get me or two, which sure beats hiking 40 or 50 miles just to get help. The downside is that they won’t know what parts or equipment to bring along, so there will most likely need to be more than one trip.

9.5k · October 27, 2009

Yah we have a couple of state parks that are the same way. Head downhill and you'll hit civilization. Folks get lazy and look for the handout costing thousands. It's the primary reason rescuers are starting to bill for the rescue where they hadn't before. On one hike to a snow cache where avalanches are a real possibility one is confronted with this big hard to miss sign (click for a larger image) and they mean it:

October 27, 2009

I've been following the development of rescue devices such as SPOT and the more recent McMurdo Fast Find. Such tools could save lives in situations that otherwise would be lost. It's sad to see such devices being used so casually.

When cell phones became common, places like Yosemite regularly got calls into their dispatch from tired hikers and those who didn't pack enough water. The nice thing about a cell phone (when it has a signal) is the rescue agency can make a determination if rescuing is really needed. In Yosemite the exhausted hiker is usually told to rest at intervals as he or she hikes out. For those callers out for the day in the hot sun without water, they too are usually told to simply walk back to their camp while resting as needed.

I still hike but no longer do overnights. Even as a day hiker I carry supplies in case I have to spend the night in the wilderness. It would take losing my map, my GPS, my primary and backup supplies, and maybe even braking an ankle or leg before I assessed the need to push the emergency button. Basically if I got to the point where I'd be more than happy to pay thousands of dollars for a rescue is when I think I'd be ready to activate a PLB.

5.3k · October 27, 2009

Basically if I got to the point where I'd be more than happy to pay thousands of dollars for a rescue is when I think I'd be ready to activate a PLB.

I think that sums it up well, and couldn't agree more.

There ought to be some fine print on these devices with info such as TL's photo depicts...sorta like the warnings on cigarette packages and alcohol containers.

October 27, 2009

Basically if I got to the point where I'd be more than happy to pay thousands of dollars for a rescue is when I think I'd be ready to activate a PLB.

I think that sums it up well, and couldn't agree more.

There ought to be some fine print on these devices with info such as TL's photo depicts...sorta like the warnings on cigarette packages and alcohol containers.

Good thought. But you can't fix stupid. Pretty sure the first two rescue parties for the idiots in the Grand Canyon told 'em not to abuse the service :signalviolin:

October 27, 2009

You can rent a satellite phone for about $50/week. If my life depends on it, I'd rather have two-way communication. With SPOT - imagine that you hit 911. Now you wait. Did the call get through? Do they really know where you are? Do they really know what your situation is? How long do you wait before you realize you may not get rescued?

With a sat phone, YOU KNOW the call got through, THEY KNOW what is wrong, YOU KNOW what the rescue plan is.

That's my $.02.

Edited October 27, 2009 by GeoBobC

2.1k · October 27, 2009

You can rent a satellite phone for about $50/week. If my life depends on it, I'd rather have two-way communication. With SPOT - imagine that you hit 911. Now you wait. Did the call get through? Do they really know where you are? Do they really know what your situation is? How long do you wait before you realize you may not get rescued?

With a sat phone, YOU KNOW the call got through, THEY KNOW what is wrong, YOU KNOW what the rescue plan is.

That's my $.02.

Roger that, HUGE 2¢!

I have friends in this organization which owns a Globalstar satellite phone which the members may borrow.

http://www.desertexplorers.org/

Which one had with him when he broke down south of Mexicali on dirt road in a remote area.

It was the club members which bought the required front suspension part at a Toyota dealer in the LA area,

brought it down to Mexico, picked up a local mechanic in a nearby small town with his welding stuff

and got them out to the breakdown.

Took several days and all ended well without the involvement of any governmental or formal rescue agencies.

October 27, 2009

Good review - I've always wondered about those things...

Peanut gallery chiming in here (albeit an Eagle Scout, Boy Scout leader, and mediocre outdoorsperson for about 35 years now). The OP and some follow-up(s) mentioned going caching, hiking, etc., into the hinterlands, alone.

Rule number 1 for going into the wild: Don't go alone. Just don't. If you find yourself alone (buddy eaten by death's head moths in his sleep, that sort of thing), that's one thing. Purposefully going into the wilderness alone is an invitation for trouble. Unless you consider yourself expendable...

Example: remember that guy several years ago who got pinned by a boulder and had to hack his paw off with a Swiss Army knife? He had no buddy to send for help.

Sure, your Spot, PLB, or EPIRB is great for calling for help. If you're conscious and cognizant. Unconscious from falling rocks? Concussed and loopy? Can't, or can't think to, push the button.

You may think, Hey, it's a fairly well-traveled trail, GZ is only a couple of miles up there, and the cache is only 50-100 feet off the beaten path. Yup, and you might never be seen over there in the bushes where you think the cache is located until someone wonders what those buzzards found.

Overreacting? Maybe. But if heading into the woods alone is something I'd advise my 13-year-old against, and get mighty ticked off about if I found out his Scout troop allowed him to, why would I do it myself?

Edited October 27, 2009 by JSWilson64

6.4k · October 27, 2009

Took several days and all ended well without the involvement of any governmental or formal rescue agencies.

You "can" do that with a SPOT as well. Call for help from friends without calling 911.

2.1k · October 27, 2009

Took several days and all ended well without the involvement of any governmental or formal rescue agencies.

You "can" do that with a SPOT as well. Call for help from friends without calling 911.

I'm sorry, I left out the part about the voice communication.

Somewhat convenient for describing what replacement parts to bring,

tools to install them, etc..........

2.1k · October 27, 2009

There has been worse topic drift than this:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?sk...d=1218123143064

:signalviolin:

6.4k · October 27, 2009

I'm sorry, I left out the part about the voice communication.

Somewhat convenient for describing what replacement parts to bring,

tools to install them, etc..........

I realize that, but at 10 times the cost. You should not be needed help very often. I do multi-week trips into beyond nowhere regularly and, IMO, needing aid should be an extremely rare situation.

9.5k · October 27, 2009

I'm sorry, I left out the part about the voice communication.

Somewhat convenient for describing what replacement parts to bring,

tools to install them, etc..........

I realize that, but at 10 times the cost. You should not be needed help very often. I do multi-week trips into beyond nowhere regularly and, IMO, needing aid should be an extremely rare situation.

Looks like this becomes about personal preference. Remember the cost of early cell phone services when a phone booth was nearby for a mere quarter? Now look where we are.

October 28, 2009

Good review - I've always wondered about those things...

Peanut gallery chiming in here (albeit an Eagle Scout, Boy Scout leader, and mediocre outdoorsperson for about 35 years now). The OP and some follow-up(s) mentioned going caching, hiking, etc., into the hinterlands, alone.

Rule number 1 for going into the wild: Don't go alone. Just don't. If you find yourself alone (buddy eaten by death's head moths in his sleep, that sort of thing), that's one thing. Purposefully going into the wilderness alone is an invitation for trouble. Unless you consider yourself expendable...

Example: remember that guy several years ago who got pinned by a boulder and had to hack his paw off with a Swiss Army knife? He had no buddy to send for help.

Sure, your Spot, PLB, or EPIRB is great for calling for help. If you're conscious and cognizant. Unconscious from falling rocks? Concussed and loopy? Can't, or can't think to, push the button.

You may think, Hey, it's a fairly well-traveled trail, GZ is only a couple of miles up there, and the cache is only 50-100 feet off the beaten path. Yup, and you might never be seen over there in the bushes where you think the cache is located until someone wonders what those buzzards found.

Overreacting? Maybe. But if heading into the woods alone is something I'd advise my 13-year-old against, and get mighty ticked off about if I found out his Scout troop allowed him to, why would I do it myself?

Actually, when I'm teaching youngsters, I give the same advice. I confess, I'm one of those do as I say, not as I do sorts when it comes to this sort of thing.

It's one of those assumed risk sorts of things. From a risk analysis aspect, there are many things we do in life on a regular basis that are higher risk, driving, riding motorcycles etc. If you look at it from a risk perspective, living alone, especially if you've got stairs, bathtubs or showers can be somewhat dangerous. When I can, I travel with others for both safety reasons, and simply for the fact it tends to be more fun. Not having a partner available however doesn't necessarily keep me from venturing out. When I do though, be it driving in the car, or hiking I do try and at least minimize some of the risks with the full understanding that I can't eliminate them. Where to draw the line on risk though, that's tough. Many of the memories I cherrish most in life, involved amounts of risk some might consider unacceptable, while the more adventurous might feel I led a very cautious sort of life.

October 28, 2009

I'm sorry, I left out the part about the voice communication.

Somewhat convenient for describing what replacement parts to bring,

tools to install them, etc..........

I realize that, but at 10 times the cost. You should not be needed help very often. I do multi-week trips into beyond nowhere regularly and, IMO, needing aid should be an extremely rare situation.

As an outdoorsman in your area, I would imagine items like the SPOT are very worthwhile tools. You're lucky in that you still have vast amounts of wilderness to explore. For those of us south of you, it's actually getting tough to get away from it all.

6.4k · October 28, 2009

That is my point. For the once in my lifetime I might need to call for help (hopefully never), paying the high fee for a satellite phone seems wasteful. The SPOT is reasonably priced enough to be worth carrying. It is also fun for people back home to track your progress.

9.5k · November 4, 2009

Searching_ut,

Any more observations on the Spot II? Have you had the chance to play with it in any high horizon areas yet?

November 5, 2009

Searching_ut,

Any more observations on the Spot II? Have you had the chance to play with it in any high horizon areas yet?

I'm way behind the power curve on doing that, maybe this weekend I can sneak in a hike. Hunting season has kept me out of the woods somewhat, but mostly it's paying for the toys. Cash part is already covered, it's stuff like the cruise I promised so I could buy another GPS, now I've been big time shooting family photos, part of the agreement for the camera equipment, lenses, lights etc. and of course bedding the yard, boat, atv's etc down for the winter. Hmmm, seems like too much work lately, I really do need a hike....

9.5k · November 5, 2009

:rolleyes:

Hmmm, seems like too much work lately, I really do need a hike....

<_<

8.9k · November 5, 2009

Not to sidetrack, but I noticed another tracking unit was discussed on the news yesterday...can't remember what the name was. It tracks you and sends info to a cell phone or computer, sounds like a good item. Will try to find more info on it.

2.1k · November 5, 2009

Not to sidetrack, but I noticed another tracking unit was discussed on the news yesterday...can't remember what the name was. It tracks you and sends info to a cell phone or computer, sounds like a good item. Will try to find more info on it.

Check with your local parole agent.

just sayin'............

November 5, 2009

You can rent a satellite phone for about $50/week. If my life depends on it, I'd rather have two-way communication. With SPOT - imagine that you hit 911. Now you wait. Did the call get through? Do they really know where you are? Do they really know what your situation is? How long do you wait before you realize you may not get rescued?

With a sat phone, YOU KNOW the call got through, THEY KNOW what is wrong, YOU KNOW what the rescue plan is.

That's my $.02.

Roger that, HUGE 2¢!

I have friends in this organization which owns a Globalstar satellite phone which the members may borrow.

http://www.desertexplorers.org/

Which one had with him when he broke down south of Mexicali on dirt road in a remote area.

It was the club members which bought the required front suspension part at a Toyota dealer in the LA area,

brought it down to Mexico, picked up a local mechanic in a nearby small town with his welding stuff

and got them out to the breakdown.

Took several days and all ended well without the involvement of any governmental or formal rescue agencies.

Satellite phones are great but there are limitations. I'm going to speak about my experience with Globalstar (I'm not familiar with Iridium). I have a Globalstar sat phone at work. We typically pay for 500 mins for a year. The phone does not receive a signal under heavy tree cover. You need direct line of sight to the satellite so if you're in a slot or deep canyon you may not get a signal (this is not like gps where you have 30 or more satellites, generally there's only one). This is a problem with Globalstar, they are having satellite problems and are leasing time off of other satellites and thus do not have 24 hour coverage. You need to go to their website and enter the lat lon of where you'll be and the time window you want to talk and it'll post the available times. I recommend a minimun of a 15 min window, I found that the satellite may not appear untill 5 mins after the stated begin time though it did disappear at the end time.

http://calltimes.globalstarusa.com/

You can only get a little over two days of times starting from when you enter the info on the internet. It'd be nice if you can say from when to when. If you're aware of these limitations then the sat phone is a great tool. If I were to do this again I'd take a look at Iridium, they're more pricey but I believe more reliable. If it weren't for the price of a new phone ($1500) we'd probably switch to them.

November 9, 2009

I finally got around testing the Spot II in a mountain canyon where I took the dog for a walk this afternoon. To sum it up quickly, I was quite disappointed with the units performance.

As to the particulars, Started at Indian Trail trailhead in Ogden Canyon Utah, and headed up cold creek canyon for a little over a mile and a half. The canyon walls, and hence horizons are fairly high here on all sides, no cell phone reception despite being only 7 or 8 miles from the city. There were no leaves on the broad leafed trees, clear skies, some pines on the lower portion of the trail.

As for Spot transmissions, at the trailhead, I turned the spot on, put it on the hood of the truck, set it to send an okay message, and waited until I got the green light flashing that is supposed to verify the message has been sent. As it turned out the message never went out.

I next set the unit to send position fixes (Track), which it is supposed to do every ten minutes, and hung it on the zipper of my jacket, facing forward. (Optimally the unit is supposed to be on it’s back facing up like an etrex) For the first twenty minutes or so, the unit was flashing the red message light, that means it was unable to send, although the GPS light always flashed indicating it was able to get a gps fix. The hike uphill climbed about 1200 feet in a little over a mile and a half, through canyons, little vegetation being late fall. Upon logging on the “FindMeSpot” at the end of the day, the spot didn’t log any waypoints on the uphill portion of the hike, which took us about 50 minutes.

At the point where I turned around, I again sent an “okay” signal, and got a text message indicating so (Cell phone worked up on the ridge I was on), on the downward leg of the walk which lasted about 30 minutes, the Spot did manage to get one track point logged into the webpage. Once back at the trailhead, I sent one more “okay” signal, then turned the unit to track. That signal got through, and all of the ones of me driving home made it.

Bottom line, only two out of the three I’m okay messages made it, and for these, the unit was stationary, placed on it’s back which is supposed to be the optimal position for the unit. For the tracking position fixes which should have occurred every ten minutes, only one made it out in over an hour and a half. These involved the unit moving, not necessarily in an optimal orientation.. I’ll play with it more of course, and try it out where it’s orientated a little better, but for now I’m disappointed in the way it performs in what I’d call real world carrying and exploring conditions for the backcountry. Works mighty fine on cruise ships though……

If there is any interest, I could overlay a gps track of the hike on a topo, along with the spot positon fixes to show the sort of terrain I was in, and where the unit did work.

November 9, 2009

If there is any interest, I could overlay a gps track of the hike on a topo, along with the spot positon fixes to show the sort of terrain I was in, and where the unit did work.

I'd like to see it. It wouldn't be much use if it didn't work in canyons.

9.5k · November 9, 2009

I finally got around testing the Spot II in a mountain canyon where I took the dog for a walk this afternoon. To sum it up quickly, I was quite disappointed with the units performance.

...edited for brevity...

Thanks for the update. Your experience matched another person's that I'm aware of. His bushwhack was never recorded, but open highway was. I think the lights give a false positive as you never know if you have a fix on the commsat or not. As with the first SPOT, I still believe an LCD screen would be much more effective with information than blinking colored lights.

Edited November 9, 2009 by TotemLake

6.4k · November 9, 2009

You need to understand that the satellite phone network in question does not have a lot of satellites. If you are in a tight canyon, the chance that the one or two satellites are visible exactly when you send the OK signal is quite low....

SPOT II

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