Rant: 1 Star Terrain

[+Sparky&Squeak]

Hi everyone! This is a sort of rant and a question.

 

My son is disabled and LOVES to geocache. We look for 1/1 so he can get to them, and a lot of 1/1 are not accessible!

 

Am I right that 1/1 should be chair accessible?

[knowschad]

Hi everyone! This is a sort of rant and a question.

 

My son is disabled and LOVES to geocache. We look for 1/1 so he can get to them, and a lot of 1/1 are not accessible!

 

Am I right that 1/1 should be chair accessible?

 

 

That (the 1 terrain rating, that is) is generally accepted to be the case, but there is no way to enforce it. Some reviewers, by their own choice, do question hiders with 1 terrain caches about wheelchair accessability, but that is totally up to them.

 

 

There is also a wheelchair accessable attribute icon, as well as the handicaching website

[+Col. Flagg]

Yes you are correct, I have several times made notes in my log that the terrain rating is incorrect for exactly this reason.

[+Vater_Araignee]

It is general accepted as true but...

I have a friend that got into my face because he sez that people under estimate the max of a 1 and a terrain rating of 2 is still accessible and anyone that disagrees is either a clueless walker, new to a wheel chair, has weak arms or has no heart.

 

My personal opinion has become that one should only assume that a cache is wheelchair accessible for everyone in one, if it has the wheelchair attribute.

[+brokenoaks]

I agree that a 1 should be handicapped accessible but the attributes buttons should qualify this. it is a simple thing for a cache owner to select and attribute. perhaps the reviewer should check this when a 1 is the rating. also it's a simple thing for a finder to mention in their online log. we all have a responsibility to help make caching an enjoyable experience for everyone who wants to do it.

[+Knight2000]

A 1/1 should be. Of course so should a 5/1. The terrain is the part that should concern you, not the difficulty.

[+StarBrand]

Most of the reviers will ask about wheelchair accessiblity when you select a 1 star terrain. That has been true for several years.

 

The real proiblem is when we try and guess what a wheelchair bound person could do.

[+res2100]

Although a lot of people automatically assume that a Terrain 1 cache means it is Wheelchair accessible, no where on gc.com have I seen where it actually says that. When you go to fill out a new cache and select the rating it even says the following for a Terrain 1 cache:

 

* Handicapped accessible. (Terrain is likely to be paved, is relatively flat, and less than a 1/2 mile hike is required.)

 

Notice that it says "Handicapped accessible". Just because someone is handicapped, does not mean that they are in a wheel chair.

 

If a cache is truly wheelchair accessible then it should use the "Wheelchair accessible" icon under the attributes section of a cache page.

 

I have a cache that is on the side of the road on the back of a sign. The terrain is without a doubt a 1, but the cache is not at all wheelchair accessible since it is 6 feet up on the back of the sign, but a person that is handicapped however (not in a wheelchair) would have no problems retrieving it.

[+wimseyguy]

It's true that a 1* terrain rating should be accessible. But that is only an accepted standard, and the guidelines don't address it specifically. So a reviewer might question a new submission that doesn't have the proper attribute to match the rating, but shouldn't hold up the publication of the cache over that issue.

 

But a responsible cache owner should edit their terrain rating when a number of logs mention that it's incorrect. Sadly, few of them read the forums.

[+gpsfun]

A terrain rating of one star generally means that the path to the cache location is relatively flat, smooth and possibly paved. Period.

 

The accessibility of the cache is another matter. Some caches require standing, reaching, crawling under a bench, etc., to access the container. The NOT wheelchair accessible attribute is helpful in identifying those caches which are probably not accessible to a person using a wheelchair, but wheelchair users have such a wide range of abilities that neither the terrain rating nor the wheelchair accessible attribute can be taken as a guarantee.

[+niraD]

There has also been a shift over time in how people rate terrain. The oldest cache in the county is rated 1-star terrain. It's an easy hike, but it isn't wheelchair accessible. The (more recent) caches around it are rated 1.5-star terrain.

[Mr.Yuck]

Yes you are correct, I have several times made notes in my log that the terrain rating is incorrect for exactly this reason.

 

I've done that. I sort of feel like a schmuck when I do it though. Why just yesterday I found a "1/1" that wasn't remotely close to being handicapped accessable. Our reviewer doesn't seem to be educating the mostly newbie cache placers on this issue any more. (Not that it's official policy, as others have noted). I also found 5 or 6 "1/1" caches on the same day in June from the same placer, all along rural rails to trails, all of which I'd have given a 2, let alone a 1.5. I even mentioned this to the local reviewer there, who is one of the well-known "outed" reviewers whom everyone knows the identity of. I imagine that cache placer will just keep making everything 1/1 like the boxes are checked by default or something though.

Edited September 28, 2009 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

While geocaching is an international game it is ultimately most often played locally. Get to know your local community of cachers, attend events, cache with others and soon you will find that the cachers in your area will start considering your son in their ratings and even in their hides.

[+Renegade Knight]

It is general accepted as true but...

I have a friend that got into my face because he sez that people under estimate the max of a 1 and a terrain rating of 2 is still accessible and anyone that disagrees is either a clueless walker, new to a wheel chair, has weak arms or has no heart....

 

Your friend is right and wrong. 1 isn't about capable folks. It's all about the ones who are new, have weak arms, or no heart. Same as ADA in real life.

[+Vater_Araignee]

It is general accepted as true but...

I have a friend that got into my face because he sez that people under estimate the max of a 1 and a terrain rating of 2 is still accessible and anyone that disagrees is either a clueless walker, new to a wheel chair, has weak arms or has no heart....

 

Your friend is right and wrong. 1 isn't about capable folks. It's all about the ones who are new, have weak arms, or no heart. Same as ADA in real life.

They way I meant for part of that to come out is, if you are able bodied and think that 2 stars is not accessible to a wheelchair then he would call you clueless.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Vater_Araignee

[+wenestvedt]

I hid a cache last week. It's on a flat piece of ground with ramps and no stairs, but it's a looong reach past a barrier. (I.e., from a chair or walker *I* don't think it would be accessible.)

 

Was I right to give it a one-star rating for terrain and deliberately leave off the Wheelchair icon? I thought about mention this in the notes but i didn't want to give away too much on what's already an easy cache (that I sue to draw attention to the site, not for the challenge).

[knowschad]

I hid a cache last week. It's on a flat piece of ground with ramps and no stairs, but it's a looong reach past a barrier. (I.e., from a chair or walker *I* don't think it would be accessible.)

 

Was I right to give it a one-star rating for terrain and deliberately leave off the Wheelchair icon? I thought about mention this in the notes but i didn't want to give away too much on what's already an easy cache (that I sue to draw attention to the site, not for the challenge).

 

 

Remember that wheelchair-bound folks can have "tools of the trade" along with them, too.

[+bittsen]

One would think that Groundspeak, with over 900,000 active caches, would take a real stance on this.

 

ONE star terrain should be wheelchair accessible. If it's flat, level, paved, etc and 6 feet high then it should automagically be at least a 1.5

[+wenestvedt]

knowschad, that's kind of what I was thinking. But if I am in fact over-thinking this, should I go with the flow and up the Difficulty to 1.5? Is our perception of the situation the exception to how most cachers will think?

 

- Will

P.S. I am a native St. Paulite. Yay, Twin Cities!

[+genegene]

This is how I rate the terrain levels on my caches:

 

Wheelchair Accessible = 1 (on a paved trail or or a P&G)

Crutches = 1.5 (short walk, or just off a well used dirt trail, usually under a .5 walk)

 

2 and up are no restrictions by foot and rate them accordingly.

 

I to have been told that some of my 1.5 caches are easy for cachers in wheelchairs, but I let them make that decision when they got to the location. I would rather be safe and rate it just a little to high then under rate it.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I hid a cache last week. It's on a flat piece of ground with ramps and no stairs, but it's a looong reach past a barrier. (I.e., from a chair or walker *I* don't think it would be accessible.)

 

Was I right to give it a one-star rating for terrain and deliberately leave off the Wheelchair icon?

 

Rather than leave off the wheelchair icon, use the 1 terrain and use this icon

 

Not Wheelchair accessible

[+Castle Mischief]

One would think that Groundspeak, with over 900,000 active caches, would take a real stance on this.

 

ONE star terrain should be wheelchair accessible. If it's flat, level, paved, etc and 6 feet high then it should automagically be at least a 1.5

 

Do you really want GS to make hard rules for every detail? Do you expect the reviewers to physically inspect the caches to verify that they are indeed wheelchair accessible?

[+bittsen]

One would think that Groundspeak, with over 900,000 active caches, would take a real stance on this.

 

ONE star terrain should be wheelchair accessible. If it's flat, level, paved, etc and 6 feet high then it should automagically be at least a 1.5

 

Do you really want GS to make hard rules for every detail? Do you expect the reviewers to physically inspect the caches to verify that they are indeed wheelchair accessible?

 

Wow, what a way to twist my words. Spin doctor, step aside!!

 

I woud like GS to make an official guideline for wheelchair accessible ratings, yes. Inspect all the caches, don't be absurd (I know, it's difficult for you, but try).

[+mtn-man]

Inspect all the caches, don't be absurd (I know, it's difficult for you, but try).

I know its difficult for you to show respect to fellow community members, but try.

 

[+Castle Mischief]

One would think that Groundspeak, with over 900,000 active caches, would take a real stance on this.

 

ONE star terrain should be wheelchair accessible. If it's flat, level, paved, etc and 6 feet high then it should automagically be at least a 1.5

 

Do you really want GS to make hard rules for every detail? Do you expect the reviewers to physically inspect the caches to verify that they are indeed wheelchair accessible?

 

Wow, what a way to twist my words. Spin doctor, step aside!!

 

I woud like GS to make an official guideline for wheelchair accessible ratings, yes. Inspect all the caches, don't be absurd (I know, it's difficult for you, but try).

 

I'm only reading what it appears you are saying then drawing the next logical conclusion from my perspective. I have not put any words into your mouth- I'm asking questions to clarify for me what exactly your opinion is.

 

So you want them to make a hard rule for the terrain ratting and then neuter it by not enforcing it?

 

What would be the point?

Edited September 28, 2009 by Castle Mischief

[+wenestvedt]

I agree with the above sentiments, and have upped my Difficulty to 1.5.

 

Thanks for your input, everyone.

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

I am handicapped, and unfortunately even more so lately. I am not in a wheelchair though. I find that I will choose 1-2 star terrain caches and read the cache page/ first few logs as well as check maps/ satellite images. That usually gives me an indication of its accessibility. I appreciate it when a cache owner puts on the cache page a comment or two about its accessibility.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking