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Matt_B_Good

By Matt_B_Good
in General geocaching topics

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Hakali

+Hakali

Posted
Posted
Value is extremely subjective, even more so when you learn to 'let go' of material things and the way they can bother you.

 

Try telling that to the next checkout person you deal with.

 

Ah, but caches are not for-profit stores, so the checkout angle doesn't apply well here.

 

No... let's not kid ourselves here... most of the time, we know darned well if we are trading equally or better.

 

Well, I took a look at the cache in question, and the log shows that the cacher, who is a mom with over 1K finds, was out with her son (who, if he's the kid in the photo, might be maybe 8 years old?) and her son made the trade. Now, I'm thinking back to when I was 8, which would have been what, 1971? If I had four quarters to rub together I was RICH. To that kid, that probably WAS a fair trade. For all we know, he routinely cruises the dollar stores and knows he can get four Matchbox cars for four quarters, and *from his perspective* it was a perfectly fair trade. Unless you want to start sticking price tags on swag, we have no way of knowing if the person leaving the item overpaid for it or not.

 

Face it.....the average Joe isn't going to pay $25 or more for a Geocoin, no matter how rare it is. He sees a hunk of metal that has very little value in his world because he can't really trade it for stuff. But that Geocoin, which is a very rare first run Moun10Bike coin, is MUCH more valuable to Geocachers who dig Geocoins. And it has collector value.

 

The thing is, this is a game. It's supposed to be fun. Kind of like Secret Santas, or a secret gift exchange. If folks are going to get their moustache this badly in a twist, please comment on the cache page that everything has been labelled with a value, and only trade for exactly or more value. Then I know to skip that cache.

 

Lest you think I'm one of those who 'short' caches, I had a spazz earlier in the month when I feared I had LOST two Geocoins. I was preparing to contact the coin owners and hang my head in shame and offer to pay replacement cost for the coins.....when I discovered that I had merely been a total moron and managed to *put them back in the cache* while I was signing the log. Duh.

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Chiroptera lover

Chiroptera lover

Posted
Posted

Knowschad, I'm a little disturbed that you quoted my post to launch into the standard "trade equal or higher" song and dance. I had clearly stated that I traded higher from a financial perspective. But are you seriously contending that value is based purely on what we pay at the check out counter? There's an item I see in caches locally quite often. It's one of a set of twelve. One day I noticed the sets on sale at Walmart for $3.97. Sheerly by coincidence, I saw the same set at Target only days later for $1. Which number do I use to determine how many plastic dinosaurs to leave in a cache? How am I to know what another cacher paid? If I buy something on sale, has it a lower value than if I pay full price?

 

I maintain that value is subject, though I did not bold that phrase as has been adopted in the quote of my words.

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briansnat

+briansnat

Posted
Posted

I still feel he is rather obtuse...

 

You would be correct. Being obtuse is the least of his problems unfortunately.

 

In other words it does not mean he is an ethical Geocacher

 

Truer words have never been spoken. Geez, imagine a guy who would lie about awards and such. I know him well and he is ethically challenged to say the least. Heck, I remember the time he STOLE a pen from a cache. Walked away from the cache with it in his pocket. The cad.

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Chiroptera lover

Chiroptera lover

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Heck, I remember the time he STOLE a pen from a cache. Walked away from the cache with it in his pocket. The cad.

 

Oh man... I had some cute little pens that I wanted to leave as swag because they were small and not terribly expensive but actually wrote quite well. I realized that people would think they were part of the cache rather than swag and not take them. Clearly I was wrong. :blink:

 

Edited to ask: OK, so why does the forum automatically use that coding in replies if it isn't sufficient to do anything but look like coding?

Edited by chiroptera lover
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CapeDoc

+CapeDoc

Posted
Posted

It's like entropy. You can fight it, but you will never win. The Third Law of Geocaching that states that the value of items in a cache tends towards zero as time increases. (yes, I'm making this up)

I have a theory why I think this is definitely true:

We all recognise swag items of greater value and naturally desire them. So, we look at our trade items and think to ourselves, " Hey, I have 4 items worth about a third of that item, so if I place my four items in, I have traded in more value than I have traded out." This is true, you have traded up. The cache gets more full, but the value of the items drops. The cycle continues until it is all just junk left in the cache. The junkier the swag, the easier it is to take things without trading up. The cache is finally left with a few tiny, muddy, used, frayed and worn out items.

No one really has done that much wrong.

I would like the guidelines to say, where possible, take out two items and leave one of greater value. The number of swag items would (HOPEFULLY!!!!) decrease but we would be left with items of greater value.

 

Too much to ask of our fellow geocachers, I know.

 

Just for fun I set up a cache to test out the trading issue, called The Picnic Pool Trade Experiment. Even with strict rules, the value of the items is probably only about the same, certainly not more than the original items.

 

(PS. See my signature.......right from the start....it's what I do....)

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runawaybunny

+runawaybunny

Posted
Posted

 

I have a theory why I think this is definitely true:

We all recognise swag items of greater value and naturally desire them. So, we look at our trade items and think to ourselves, " Hey, I have 4 items worth about a third of that item, so if I place my four items in, I have traded in more value than I have traded out." This is true, you have traded up. The cache gets more full, but the value of the items drops. The cycle continues until it is all just junk left in the cache. The junkier the swag, the easier it is to take things without trading up. The cache is finally left with a few tiny, muddy, used, frayed and worn out items.

No one really has done that much wrong.

 

I agree. When my kids are faced with the "I would like that piece of swag but I don't have an equal item" challenge, my son tries to convince me to toss in 2 for 1. I tell him "NO!" and explain the whole swag break down deterioration theory. Seems harmless at the time, but, really it would probably be the beginning of the end for the swag.

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Cpl. Klinger

+Cpl. Klinger

Posted
Posted

We all now that caches should be left in better condition than found. That trades should be made at least even. The OP got upset when told the simple facts. Not everyone will trade equably. It does no good to let it raise your blood pressure. We just need to learn to live with it and do our best to set an example.

 

 

I can't disagree with you there, I'm afraid. Gonna be winter here soon. I hate winter. I could move, but I haven't, so I have to accept it. Winter happens when you live in Minnesota.

 

I thought winter (well, and the 3 week summer in July) was the only season you folks had up there...

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Vater_Araignee

+Vater_Araignee

Posted
Posted

I notice in my area of the country especially in the more tourist type place cache swag is not traded according to the rules. The rule is that if you take something from a cache you put something of equal value or of greater value in the cache. I had a new unopened hotweels car in a cache. about $1.00 retail value. I was expecting that if someone chose to trade they would know it was worth about a dollar. The person traded but they left a quarter. WHAT AN INSULT! Why not just steal it? Basically they did. In whose warped world can you go and buy anything let alone a Hotwheels car for a quarter? It is getting bad. Some caches start out with some cool stuff. As time goes by it is all a bunch of junk. This really discourages me from starting out another geocache with any decent swag.

Side-note did you check that quarter? Possibly silver, possibly double-die...

Value can be subjective and if he isn't a numismatist then he only sees a 1955 doubled-die cent as being worth one cent rather than the $500 I would sell it for.

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sdarken

sdarken

Posted
Posted

From the OPs cache description:

 

Here is a list of some of the original items.

 

Tea cup candle, about a 3¢ value

Used golf ball, Hard to say, 4-40¢ maybe

New golf ball, about 40-50¢ value

NEW Toy car, about $1 value

 

I'd say there is a little too much focus on the monetary value of the cache contents.

 

As much as it disagrees with my own personal geocaching preferences, I think the OP would be better off placing micros that dont need to be stocked with any swag (or stag).

 

As a cache owner I accept that refreshing the contents of my caches occasionaly is part of my cache maintenance responsibilities.

 

I dont see the deterioration of swag as a sign that humanity is doomed

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Skippermark

Skippermark

Posted
Posted
If that works for you great but from now on the majority of my caches will start out with just crap or just the logbook.

That's fine. There's no rules saying you need to hide quality stuff in a cache.

 

Still wouldn't you like to see it filled with stuff that is decent rather than crap.

We rarely trade, so what's inside doesn't really matter much. To me, a new rain poncho from a department store isn't anymore exciting than a kids meal toy.

 

No offense to Scrabblers, but I'm constantly amazed at the cachers that have been at it for years that still think TBs have to be traded one-for-one to move from cache to cache.

Some friends only like to take a coin/TB if they have one to leave. They know they don't have to. It's just a personal thing they like to do.

 

But there are so many cache pages that say NOT to take one if you can't leave one. And we did get a nasty email about not trading. We just ignored it.

The thing is the coins/TBs inside the cache aren't theirs, and they have no right dictating what can be done with them. I know people who find a cache like that who will take all the TBs if they haven't moved in a long time.

 

someone stole the logbook...

I took a logbook once. We were caching 3 hours from home. After the challenging tree climb, we quickly signed in and then spent a few minutes going through the goodies in the container. It wasn't until we were on the ferry heading home and I put my hand into my jacket pocket that I realized I'd forgotten to replace the logbook. Emailed the owner and offered to mail it back to them but never heard anything.

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GOF and Bacall

GOF and Bacall

Posted
Posted
If that works for you great but from now on the majority of my caches will start out with just crap or just the logbook.

That's fine. There's no rules saying you need to hide quality stuff in a cache.

 

Still wouldn't you like to see it filled with stuff that is decent rather than crap.

We rarely trade, so what's inside doesn't really matter much. To me, a new rain poncho from a department store isn't anymore exciting than a kids meal toy.

 

No offense to Scrabblers, but I'm constantly amazed at the cachers that have been at it for years that still think TBs have to be traded one-for-one to move from cache to cache.

Some friends only like to take a coin/TB if they have one to leave. They know they don't have to. It's just a personal thing they like to do.

 

But there are so many cache pages that say NOT to take one if you can't leave one. And we did get a nasty email about not trading. We just ignored it.

The thing is the coins/TBs inside the cache aren't theirs, and they have no right dictating what can be done with them. I know people who find a cache like that who will take all the TBs if they haven't moved in a long time.

 

someone stole the logbook...

I took a logbook once. We were caching 3 hours from home. After the challenging tree climb, we quickly signed in and then spent a few minutes going through the goodies in the container. It wasn't until we were on the ferry heading home and I put my hand into my jacket pocket that I realized I'd forgotten to replace the logbook. Emailed the owner and offered to mail it back to them but never heard anything.

 

Aww who cares what you say. You're a log thief. :o

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Don_J

+Don_J

Posted
Posted

 

No joke! I like to leave carabiners, those little mirrors on a stick-things, and eyeglass repair kits. Do you have ANY IDEA how valuable an eyeglass repair kit is when your lens just fell out four feet from the cache? PRICELESS. By the same token, one of those dental mirrors is priceless when it saves you from sticking your hand into a big mess o' black widows. Also priceless when it lets your aching back still hunt without the need to bend over.....

 

As an amusing side note, I found a pair of Ducky Lee's glasses while looking for a cache where she posted that a bush had stolen her glasses. I found her at the 9.9.9 event and gave her her glasses, and she was thrilled.....because she'd just lost her current pair not two hours earlier.

 

Value is extremely subjective, even more so when you learn to 'let go' of material things and the way they can bother you.

 

I love this. I was driving down the highway, wearing my prescription sun glasses when suddenly my right eye got incredibly bright, and extremely bleary. My heart raced with adrenaline. I thought that I was having a stroke. Then, I looked down and saw the lens laying in my lap. I had a dollar repair kit in the glove box. If I hadn't, I would have gladly paid ten bucks for one, just to get me back on the road. You are correct, value is subjective.

 

As far as carabiners, I'm not sure what it is, but when I started caching and hiking, I became fascinated with them. I very seldom trade, but if there is a carabiner in a cache, it's going home with me. I have dozens of them clipped all over my pack, and even more at home. Some serve a purpose and some are just for show. I have fish, dogs, cars, I have one that is 9" inchs big, and I have one that is a quarter inch. I have two four inch ones on the back of my pack that I can use to grab both ends on an ammo can, so I can trudge it into the mountains,

 

Don't forget about the one on the car key that clips just about anywhere. It comes in handy when you skip the mountains and hit the LPCs. 105 in my area tomorrow, through the weekend, so I may just have to do that. (Mountains are restricted)

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gridlox

gridlox

Posted
Posted (edited)

A quarter for a Hot Wheel, huh? :unsure:

 

Since your so concerned with equal value trades, I wonder why you failed to prove the value of said "quarter"?

Or did you just "assume" the quarter's value was it's tradtionally accepted value of 25 cents? :D

 

What was it's minting date & mint code? :unsure:

 

Could be the trader was a little bit more intelligent than you give them credit for and knew the "real" value of said quarter and "was" trading equal or trading up. :D

 

Quarter Values

 

Of course, to further bunch your already wadded panties...

You could always further your "I got cheated" argument by basing your value on the actual Metal Value of said quarter.

 

U.S. Coin Metal Value Calculator

 

Let's see... for a 1965-2009 Washington Quarter the melt value for the metal comes to... OMG!! :huh: You've have been ripped more than you realize!!

 

Total melt value is $0.04. (exact value is $0.0401406547968) :D:D

 

If you haven't figured it out yet the post above is loaded with extreme sarcasm. :unsure:

 

Dude! Seriously!! You spent $100.00+ on a GPS & have found one of the most enjoyable things you can do with it. Get out and enjoy the hunt and all it has to offer and quit whining about your cache swag's value dropping $0.75. Like other's have said, if the value of your cache's swag is more important to you than enjoying the Geocaching experience then it just isn't for you. Please find some experience that will give you some enjoyment from life & I wish you well at it! :D

 

I hear underwater basket weaving is rather relaxing! :D

 

D-man :D

 

edit: to add links and some thoughts after hitting submit the first time. :o

Edited by gridlox
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Skippermark

Skippermark

Posted
Posted
The highest price paid for a Hot Wheels car was $72,000...

One of my friend's wife collects Pez dispensers. He saw one in a cache and grabbed it, leaving some appropriate swag in return.

 

He got home, gave it to his wife, who went online to check the value and saw that it's selling online for $20 or more. He had no idea it was worth so much.

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Snoogans

+Snoogans

Posted
Posted

I've always preferred Matchbox cars.

 

So did I, but having a child who is into toy cars, I know they were acquired by Mattell about 10 years ago. So same company. I'm sure the gentleman from the UK will know what a Matchbox car is though. :shocked:

 

Feh...

 

d-cat-09.jpg

 

I was a Dinky toy fan. 35 years ago and before, EVERY toy store had a Dinky toy display case. I would stare at the case the entire time and take home the free catalog and stare at it for hours. They were rather expensive as I recall. Certainly MORE than my 7 year old budget could afford. I think I only scored 2 or 3 dinkys in my childhood.

 

I have seen a few dinkys in caches though. ALL of them were travel bugs. :blink:

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off-camber

+off-camber

Posted
Posted

I've always preferred Matchbox cars.

 

So did I, but having a child who is into toy cars, I know they were acquired by Mattell about 10 years ago. So same company. I'm sure the gentleman from the UK will know what a Matchbox car is though. :shocked:

 

Feh...

 

d-cat-09.jpg

 

I was a Dinky toy fan. 35 years ago and before, EVERY toy store had a Dinky toy display case. I would stare at the case the entire time and take home the free catalog and stare at it for hours. They were rather expensive as I recall. Certainly MORE than my 7 year old budget could afford. I think I only scored 2 or 3 dinkys in my childhood.

 

I have seen a few dinkys in caches though. ALL of them were travel bugs. :blink:

 

HEY those are from the TV Show "UFO" I remember that show....ok dating myself...never knew they made toys. Very cool...

 

and for the record I had lots of Matchbox cars in my day...still have them in a case along with a selection of hotwheels.

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Castle Mischief

+Castle Mischief

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've always preferred Matchbox cars.

 

So did I, but having a child who is into toy cars, I know they were acquired by Mattel about 10 years ago. So same company. I'm sure the gentleman from the UK will know what a Matchbox car is though. :shocked:

 

Feh...

 

d-cat-09.jpg

 

I was a Dinky toy fan. 35 years ago and before, EVERY toy store had a Dinky toy display case. I would stare at the case the entire time and take home the free catalog and stare at it for hours. They were rather expensive as I recall. Certainly MORE than my 7 year old budget could afford. I think I only scored 2 or 3 dinkys in my childhood.

 

I have seen a few dinkys in caches though. ALL of them were travel bugs. :blink:

 

I had the UFO Interceptor in the bottom of that pic (except the missile was yellow w/ black nosecone). I'd love to find a Dinky travel bug. Those were good times, when most toys were made of die-cast metal...

 

I'd trade far more than a quarter if I ever found a Dinky Toy in a cache as swag.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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Snoogans

+Snoogans

Posted
Posted

I've always preferred Matchbox cars.

 

So did I, but having a child who is into toy cars, I know they were acquired by Mattel about 10 years ago. So same company. I'm sure the gentleman from the UK will know what a Matchbox car is though. :blink:

 

Feh...

 

d-cat-09.jpg

 

I was a Dinky toy fan. 35 years ago and before, EVERY toy store had a Dinky toy display case. I would stare at the case the entire time and take home the free catalog and stare at it for hours. They were rather expensive as I recall. Certainly MORE than my 7 year old budget could afford. I think I only scored 2 or 3 dinkys in my childhood.

 

I have seen a few dinkys in caches though. ALL of them were travel bugs. :(

 

I had the UFO Interceptor in the bottom of that pic (except the missile was yellow w/ black nosecone). I'd love to find a Dinky travel bug. Those were good times, when most toys were made of die-cast metal...

 

I'd trade far more than a quarter if I ever found a Dinky Toy in a cache as swag.

 

I wanted and never got the 2 Space 1999 Eagle models.

 

I had the SHADO vehicle. Wish I still had it. (BTW I have the entire UFO & Space 1999 series on DVD)

 

I'd leave the equivalent of $30+ for a dinky that I remember from childhood and that would still not be trading even. :shocked:

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Castle Mischief

+Castle Mischief

Posted
Posted (edited)

I wanted and never got the 2 Space 1999 Eagle models.

 

I had the SHADO vehicle. Wish I still had it. (BTW I have the entire UFO & Space 1999 series on DVD)

 

I'd leave the equivalent of $30+ for a dinky that I remember from childhood and that would still not be trading even. :shocked:

 

I had the green Space 1999 Eagle. Gave it to a friend that was a huge SiFi nut and toy collector about 10 years ago.

 

I'd easily leave the same $30 to have that UFO interceptor. Mine lost its landing gear in a botched mission back in 1984 and then got its windshield smashed in sometime in the early 90s.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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wimseyguy

+wimseyguy

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm not going to sit and read every response. This is my last post on this thread. I would gladly close the thread but I see no way to do so. I am glad many of you understand what my frustration is about this. I am surprised to see that so many see nothing wrong with what the person did with my swag item in the geocache. The guidelines clearly indicate that items if traded should be replaced with an item or items that are of equal or greater value. So therefore unless otherwise stated in the cache description people should follow that guideline. Otherwise a really good geocache turns into one with a bunch of garbage in it. As far as calling the guy who won geocacher of the year awards and a moderator an idiot. Yes I did that. I apologize for doing so. I should not have done that. I still feel he is rather obtuse and I stand by my statement that his post was idiotic but to call him an idiot was wrong of me and I'm sorry. The fact that he is a winner of some bogus geocacher of the year award a moderator and has been at this longer than I have is 100% irrelevant. In other words it does not mean he is an ethical Geocacher. What he says means no more than what I say what matters is the guidelines. I go by that more than some guy's opinion. With the exception of the trolls attempting to flame I thank all of you for your responses. It is now time to put the topic to rest.

 

Good bye for now

 

C'mon Matt, we all know you are still lurking around the corner wondering why no one in this seedy bar on the wrong side of the tracks has agreed with your OP. Oops, that's a different forum. :shocked:

 

Anyhow, the answer to your question was posted back in #38. It's your thread to close anytime you want to. But keep two things in mind:

1. You would be ending a fascinating discussion of our childhood toys.

2. Locking the thread now would acknowledge that you have been lurking despite your claim to be done with us. The mods will only lock a thread when the OP requests it, or if the thread has become toxic, or veers way off course.

 

Since many of us are still discussing the value of little metal toy vehicles, that hasn't happened....yet.

Edited by wimseyguy
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